Realistic costs for the race series?
 

Anyone provide me with a rough estimate of the costs of next years race series?

I realise that you can go bananas and spend £10K+ on this, but how much do the experienced ones amongst us reckon it would take to get a competitive bike on the track next year, compete in all rounds and get all the spares/supporting stuff required?

Ie, how much for a fair 620, modded to compete, entry to race series, ACU licence, tyres (wets and spares) etc, etc...

The other thread and a thread I started on the MOC suggested that I would be looking at £6k-£7K for the year?

Is this a fair figure? Any ideas? If this is realistic, then its too steep for me.

Its about justifying the money for the relatively short tracktime. How many trackdays can I do for £6K? If you take out the running costs, purchase price etc, then there's still around £2K slack here - so I reckon that's 10-15 trackdays? Is this fair?

I kinda now see the reason why Kev was looking to compete in other series too, in order to justify the expense of setting up the bike I suppose?

Thoughts?

Tim:frog:

You may want to abort now tim, I was doing some calcs, it's not going to be cheap in comparison with what you acctually get from the whole thing.


cheers
robin

(wets and spares) etc, etc...

spares Tim,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,add another thousand on for keys and delivery:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::l ol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

srri m8, couldnt resist it, but nice article in Pronto, brought back memories

S'alorra track days Tim. Lets get you bladdered in Cartagena and we'll talk about it. Looked at exactly the same equation and decided against it in the end. All you got to do is have one crash, not even your fault and the whole thing ends in tears.

On the other hand - Life is not a rehearsal! :sing::sing::sing::sing::sing::sing::sing::sing:

How long is a piece of string:puzzled:,

First off, cost of the bike, second do you want it to be competative?, yes, so suspension, new rear shock£400+, front suspension £250+ (around Mallory suspension can make up to 2 seconds a lap, don`t sound much but it is, ask Weeksy,skidlidspaynap etc ), spare wheels(do not use ebay, to dear, try a friendly breakers, tell them what it is for,should get them a bit cheaper, also spare clipons etc, if it will get damaged if you fall off, carry a spre one. tyres, one set of wets £200, one set of race tyres per 3 meetings depending on suspension & commitment. Spares, tyre warmers, generator, cost of entry fees, fuel to get there etc, etc.
Go and see local tool hire shops & get a generator on the cheap by advertising the company on your bike, it is suprising what can be done.
7 to 10k sounds to much, 3k tops for a bike inc suspension spares etc after that its entry fees, fuel & tyres, I did a full competative season in F400 using secondhand tyres, hang around the paddock, check out the well off guys, they flog off tyres before they are to worn. Its down to you on how you want to do it, all new=expensive, secondhand=far cheaper.


Chris.:roll:

As much as I'd love to blow £10k on a sorted 620 there's no possible chance of doing so for many years. I'll have a realistic ceiling of £4k for the season, with a max of £1400 going on the initial bike purchase. If a decent deal can be done for a 674 kit then I may stretch it by 10% but after that and it'll be more deomestic grief than I can handle!

I can completely understand those with cash spending it and, given the mixed grid, it'll be good to see a wide variation. I'm really looking forward to seeing the brightest/cheapest solutions to making the most of the rules, not the person who's dropped off a £4k 620 to a mechanic for a month of dyno work.

Having said that, if I win the lottery then its carbon/ti everything and race school with Rossi! :)

Anyone with experience think I'll have a hard time sticking to the £4k budget??

Cheers,

Ali

Cost of Desmo Due

Hope to get a 600SS for £1500, will try and make 916 race fairing fit as I already have one and it has a catch tray.
Fit new belts, oil and filter. £75 ish
Slip on exhaust, dynojet kit and K&N unless bike already has some or all of these. £2??
Aeroquip hoses if not already fitted. £20
Fork oil change, maybe different grade, air gap and preload spacers £20
Maybe new spring on rear shock £30
Two front tyres and three rear. already got a couple of fronts and a rear so about £170
Solo seat would be nice
Steering damper--- Not sure if needed yet maybe it will be at Castle (Bumpy) Combe but not Brands Indy or Cadwell woodlands.
Acu licence is already on the cards so not a added cost, New Era and North Glos club memberships likewise.
Entries if I race in another class as well one class will get a reduced rate so will add little to my yearly entries.
Same applies to transport costs etc as I will be racing next year anyway.
Race fuel for a timed practice and two races say around £15
No eyesight test, traing school or novice bib,

So mainly about a £2k outlay on a bike and then I'll be ready to go out to play. Now what shall I sell off to try and raise £2k, full 749S body kit, 955 Corse engine and running gear, Fireblade, GSXR600K2 race bike, DP rearsets and heal carbon gaurds, 54mm exhaust, ZXR400L even the Dymag Carbon arm. Hopefully it will be the Blade just after Xmas

Down to the last few millions Mr Rattler !

Times is 'ard fella!!! Just trying to justify keeping three bikes and only using them on the track!!!;)

Its not necessarily the money, (although it is more than I thought) more the justification of that kind of outlay against what I'm presently doing. I'm not sure I would be able to attend all races anyway as I have other "stuff" that could keep me away, both business and personal (my son's golf or football tournaments for example).

As with most activities/ventures I undertake, I like to set a realistic budget and this one just seems to be getting stretched to what's a bit higher than I had initially expected.

If I do take part, then I realistically won't be attending too many track days on the ZX and that wouldn't justify my present expense on the ZX.

Having given this further thought, I'd need to keep costs down to under £4K to justify it to myself I reckon.

So I'm off to do my sums!!! Any other guys racing now who can add some thoughts?

Tim:frog:

Cheers Weeksy - food for thought.
:cool:

Sorry weeksy, but I really can't see a 600SS needing a new set of tyres every weekend!

You'll get 2 weekends out of them, maybe three if you're lucky at this level.

I'm also intending to sell the bike at the end of the season - either to someone doing it the next year (if not myself) or put it back on the road, so this will offset some of the cost.

Well i've read through the quoted costs and whilst I agree that you 'can' spend 5-7k if you really wish I personally feel that with this series being a 6 round series only then the costs 'could' be kept lower it really depends on your view of the series and what you want to get out of it.

Some costs are unavoidable. Fees-Licence-Club Membership-Fuel-Tyres-Food- etc but...

For this series as a taster and for 6 rounds only then to keep to a budget it's possible to do this:

Bike £1500-2K ( lots of monsters already have some serious mods made to them already)
Tyres 2 sets max really unless you wanna do serious test days.
Don't need spare wheels with wets ( TW only used wets twice last year in 20 odd races)
No Genny
No warmers
No van ( trailer £150 and tent or mate to tow cheap caravan)
Belly Pan £40-50
Lockwire £ 10
Oil Change £40
Fluid Change £20
Belts £25



Regards food for the weekend - how much would you spend at home during the weekend going out or-and on takeaways?

For me if I decide to take my road bike then my costs are even further reduced as my bike already would have Ohlins rear and Racetech front.

For me it would be fun only.

For TW it cost him £12k for last season on a minitwin.

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

Over £4K - right, but the biggest part of this is the bike purchase, so assuming you can get back close to what you paid - then you're looking at around £2.5K to race - that's a bit more like it!!!

Tim:frog:

Tim I budget £3k every year for my own racing, obviously this doesn't include any bike purchases or me sponsoring Adrian at the TT.

Hi Weeksy ;)
I didn't add it up and as I said it 'does' very much depend on what you want to get out of it.
For me it's a personal acheivement and I really wouldn't bother about tooling around at the back. It's the taking part that I like the idea of.
There is no such thing as cheap racing thesedays I agree - however no real sport is cheap.
I competed with horses for many years and CK will tell how expensive that it too.
I do believe it can be addictive for some - I wouldn't consider myself one of those ( way too old ) ;)
I've seen how easy it is to get carried away with the spending and that was with a reliable bike ( yes it was reliable ) ;)
Horses for courses. I don't believe it has to be horrific but it's not cheap - what fun is thesedays ?

Am I allowed out on my minitwin? ;)

You wanna proper bike you do :o

Indeed.... :s

748 says "race me, race me, race me" ;)

I have a proper bike. I just don't ride it. :p

No no no it says : Please please TW - start me start me start me :o

<sigh> No class ! ;)

No where's the report this post section ?

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

Just look at that effortless style. That is class ;)

It's an SV Suzuki - Its made to make people look like they can ride.
My case rests - you wanna proper bike you do :P

For that I is coming out (sic) on a Ducati now. Just to kick ur sweet little ass. :p

Well you can't ride the 748 - it won't start
:lol:

Aye. Tru enuff. :(

I think it's sulking.

We spirited ladies don't like it if we ain't used and abused ;)

Steve like everybody we all have to start somewhere, I started with a 6 year old CBR600FN, a spare set of wheels and a trailer.
What I was trying to say is add £3k onto the initial out lay.
Some people need to buy a bike and some don't, same goes for a van or trailer.etc etc
As for Genny and warmers for those out for fun they are not a requirement just ask the R6 cup lads, OK they have 2 warm-up laps but they arrive at the first corner a lot quicker than I ever could on a 600SS and then they then have a lot more power to lay down exiting the corner.

"Do you really think it's acceptable for a bunch of blokes to turn up in the paddock all riding pieces of crap kicked together from breakers yards, no warmers/awnings/gennies/vans etc etc etc and go play out on track ??"
Absolutely I do Steve, if that's how they want/can afford to do it then go for it-the whole point of this series is that it should be fun for beginners and a taster for racing. As lond as the bikes are to the formula and ACU legal then I don't see a problem-yes I know that once the bug bites the wallet somehow gets bigger but we all have to start somewhere.

As for me with a motorhome purchased for last year 'cause I got fed up getting wet in a tent, genny, warmers, trailer which I don't use as the bike hangs on the back of the motorhome, and the cost of the TZ-and I don't even RIDE it myself-I am in no position to criticise.
One of these days when I am feeling brave I am going to add up all the invoices I have from Dennis Trollope.:o

John

This could turn into a slanging match, but heres my twopenneth,
Sorry Steve but I have to agree with kev, I started racing in 99, not so long ago, I rode a standard CBR400Gullarm, standard suspensionm just a dynokit & a open can, no trailer just my mum in the car with the kids & a toolbox, no wets, no warmers, & yes I rode the bike to the circuit (mallory) with the wife, bless her on the back, taped up the lights, disconected the brake lights & wired up the sidestand, one practice session, no warm up lap:( , average lap time was 59 seconds this was against other roadstock 400s, Positions 2nd & 4th, ie a simalar situation as the desmo due racing,( yes it was pre edwenas), so yes you can race competatevly on a budget without awnings, caravans, & all the trappings that can come with it, racing is seriouse but it is also fun, & that I think is what this series is about.
Chris.:roll:

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by chris.p]

Now isn't That just the point !


Racing is like a DRUG !!!!

and anyone who knows of a friend or family member who has had a serious Drug addiction, will know that they will BEG BORROW and even STEAL to support their Habit!!


sitting on the fence (as i dont race ) but i know plenty who do!!

Racing is a lifestyle

Those of you who are considering doing This DESMO DUE,should consider a lot more than the cash to set it up,as it will put a big strain on your finances, your social life,and even your marridge etc etc

It's a champagne lifestyle and no disrespect some of you who wanna do this have a Lemonade Pocket!!!


seems Desmo Due,should have been set up like <

Buy a BIKE!

leave it standard !

must be ridden to the track!


Then go race ya mate !


would have made it a real challenge !

and nearly all would have a similar Budget ..

JUST MY OPINION

;);) mav

You are all right, everyone will do it their own way, some will spend a lot, some will spend less. Doesn't really matter does it? Weeksy's estimates are not unreasonable, but I am equally sure it can be done for less, a lot less!
The main point, as he says is that everyone who does it will have a whale of a time!! :D

Chris - I'm with you on this one (apart from the riding to the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!);)

If I do this, I'm gonna get a cheap 620 (so it can be competitive as standard) - get some ground clearance, set it up as best it can be with the original components (brake lines and pads aside) - then get out there.

I'm sure the organisers of this are watching this thread (and other similar ones) to see how it evolves before they add comment - but for me its about cheap, fun racing.

If I can't get a bike that's competitive and keep the costs down to around £2K a year (on top of the initial bike purchase price) then its a non-starter for me.

My calculations are simply based on how much I would gain personally from racing over just taking part in trackdays.

Mav makes a fair point about the impact on other areas of life and I need to consider the needs of others (family / work / responsibilites) above mine. This may be the "real" cost of the racing?

I don't/won't have the time to properly set up the bike, practice on it etc, etc - I'm sure there is a real buzz to be gained from racing - just reading many of Weeksy's comments makes this more than apparent.

But personally it needs to be gained in a sensible, safe, friendly, competitive, cheap environment.

I believe that this will then meet with the original intentions of the organisers.

Tim:frog:

Tim, just a thought mate but why don't you set out your £2k budget with what you need, tyres et al (it's all been listed above) and just manage it. If you are going to go over it perhaps skip a round to keep it down (and give the rest of us a chance to catch up in the points :P )

Like you I'm going to do the minimum to the bike to get it out on the grid, ground clearance, belly pan, lockwire and brake setup aside (we need to change the lines for ACU regs). Having said that I may get a 620 depending on finances etc early next year. This does mean that, at this stage, I won't be running the 996 with DP which I had hoped to do. But, I have pledged my support to Desmo Due so that is my first priority at the moment.

So I'm still not sure about what to do with the 996 because of all the cleaning I've just done I don't really want to ride it in winter. I've just got last winter off the bloody thing. But I bought it to ride it and if I'm mainly using the 600/620 for TD's and racing there's not much point in having a 996 on a SORN really. Like you I'm struggling to justify having three bikes at the moment so it looks like the KTM supermoto idea is out the window (bugger).

I realise the above is a bit of a ramble, just sharing my thoughts really. Hopefully it will benefit someone.

Fair comments Tony - a £2K managed budget seems reasonable to me.

My intention with this post was to establish whether this was realistic. It appeared from the earlier posts that it may not be, but my thinking is now that it can be.

As far as your quote - - you can clean her more than once you know!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Keep the 996 - you'd regret it otherwise.
Tim:frog:

More than once? In the same year? Are you sure thats allowed? I thought it was an annual event :frog:

I know I'd regret selling the 996, it doesn't even make sense from a return point of view, considering the money I've put in it ... Does free up the garage though ... maybe back to people thinking I'm mad for commuting on the 996? Take it off a SORN? There's already someone who is mad on this board ...

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by tp-996]

well I'm with the school of thought that most of us would want to do it for the fun and experience, and hopefully all involved will put emphasis on this rather than get really competitive. If you want to be spending the kind of money that sees a new set of tyres for every race then sod off to bsb and do it - that's not what DesmoDuo is about! Am I wrong??

After a proposal put on the table to me today I might be taking to the grid myself...
if I do then I'll be racing my wallet rather than others on the track. I understand weeksy's thoughts on how the competitiveness can escalate and cause more cost, but that's got to depend on what targets you set yourself, and let's face it steve you're a lot more dedicated to racing than I could ever want to be! And good on you bloke, I say!

I reckon (hope!), without considering the cost of buying the bike, the season budget should be less than £2k unless you're racing to win.

And about the tyres - if I do more than 2 sets (one dry, possibly one wet) then I should really be sacking my suspension staff!! Look at what I ve done this year for example - 1 set of 208GP's on the 996 have lasted 4 trackies (2+ hours each) and about 1500 road miles, so 6 weekends of less than 45 mins each on a bike with half the power should just about wear the hairs off!

Right... now where's that calculator...

And Phoenix is still tooling around at the back but enjoying herself just as much as she did at the beginning of the season :P;)

Hello again, Devil's advocate here....

forget about those that want to chuck all the effort and money into being 0.2bhp off the limit, and let bill and ben have a ding-dong for 2nd place if they want. I've just finished a season's racing with enduro, me in the pits and mate riding the bike, and each race was about doing the best we could with what we had, and that was it...

I sure don't want to be negative, and if I find myself in last place then I'll probably end up in the gravel chasing down the bloke in front. But at entry level racing I'd imagine it's got to be more about the rider than the bike - let me ride the series on a factory 999rs and skids will probably still kick my arse!

So I ask without the benefit of experience - is it really worth spending money on making the bike quicker? Are we likely to find ourselves more skillful than the bikes?

Purely speculation, cos my knowledge in this is somewhat weak, but I reckon the novice riders will be better off working on themselves rather than the bike... on a 600ss what I lack in cornering skill I reckon I can make up on power-2-weight ratio... anyone who's ever seen me might agree :P :lol:
and what the rattly one loses on me down the straight cos he's a "few" stone heavier, he'll make up with his css cornering skills.

I think what I'm trying to say is there must be so much more to it than who's got the fastest bike!