Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Brands ESS Sports Day - today 25/4

[Jon]

Tim the CSS must have done a good job on you. You must have been toooooooo good for ESS, so they didn't bother you with anymore instruction.

Hi Tim,

I read your post with interest and as always we take our customers views seriously. (Am I right in thinking that you are the gentleman who had a replacement day because your letter regarding the cancelled event on the 4th didn’t find you?).

The price for a T/D at Brands this year (post end of March Indy circuit) appears to be between £139.00 and £175.00, at the cheaper end of the market there is a difference of around £70.00 and at the top end about £35.00, when you consider what is laid on for participants on these events we believe the price for these days to be very fair. (£211.00 when booked online).
Whilst marketed as rider training ie a School, I do feel that to draw a comparison with the Californian Superbike School is maybe not the best analogy. ESS can and does run a ‘regimented’ system in the form of its Premier School events, indeed SPORTS Days are its siblings, but these events where designed to be more relaxed and a little less intimidating than the main stream products. We wanted to encourage more experienced rider to feel comfortable with coaching and for those new to circuit riding a safe environment, the hope is for a more varied group of riders then the Premier product tends to attract ( classrooms vary from event to event so a rider can return a number of times without repatition). When used correctly these events provide a wealth of information and instruction compared to a Track day but of course not as much as our Premier School (or any premium product), we hope the price reflects this void fairly.

You mentioned the classrooms were a ‘bit hit and miss’ and that ‘you weren’t really encouraged to attend’. In the briefing notes sent to you prior to the event it has a section marked Rider Clinics & Instruction and it states. “During the day there will be various classrooms and clinics, we recommend that you follow the itinerary (which is sent to you prior to the event and includes a description of the classes and their times), carefully to obtain the maximum out of your day and therefore not miss any sessions. Our School coaches will be taking up to a maximum of four pupils on circuit for set sessions. In addition to this we gave an announcement over the Tannoy for each classroom and track session, we appreciate that the system is not very good at BH, that’s why we supply a written itinerary.

On the subject of ‘promised instruction I feel you have a very valid point, due a very silly error involving the word ‘assumption’ the advanced groups as you quite rightly say did not get all or maybe even any of the tuition promised.
Both intermediate and experienced groups receive 3 X 20 minute instructed sessions followed a debriefing in a pre-designated area, Novices get four, in addition to that each group gets four classroom sessions on varying subjects. I have to concede that this did not happen for the advanced group and the blame for that lies entirely with ESS, but I do feel I need to make a couple of small points given the opportunity. The grid on which you assembled was 10-15 feet away from the garages where all instructors return and base themselves, a glance and a wave of the hand may have well seen this problem removed for all those that were unwittingly taking part including ourselves, whilst I accept your disappointment I do wish you had spoken to me on the day when I could have put the situation right. Alas that is not your job and we dropped the clanger but should you chose to return and there is something not right, please tell us right there and then.

In summary I can only apologise for that error, mistakes such as this are not a common theme and your replacement day should you chose to accept it will be without charge.

Regards
Tony Scott. ESS

Fair enough Tony .. well written and addressed all the points of contention ... nice offer of a replacement day as well.

Rattler, he can't be any fairer than that .....

[Jon]

I second that dibbs. Its a pity Ducati don't post in the same way

[Rattler]

Originally posted by Quickshifter
Hi Tim,

I read your post with interest and as always we take our customers views seriously. (Am I right in thinking that you are the gentleman who had a replacement day because your letter regarding the cancelled event on the 4th didn’t find you?).

The price for a T/D at Brands this year (post end of March Indy circuit) appears to be between £139.00 and £175.00, at the cheaper end of the market there is a difference of around £70.00 and at the top end about £35.00, when you consider what is laid on for participants on these events we believe the price for these days to be very fair. (£211.00 when booked online).
Whilst marketed as rider training ie a School, I do feel that to draw a comparison with the Californian Superbike School is maybe not the best analogy. ESS can and does run a ‘regimented’ system in the form of its Premier School events, indeed SPORTS Days are its siblings, but these events where designed to be more relaxed and a little less intimidating than the main stream products. We wanted to encourage more experienced rider to feel comfortable with coaching and for those new to circuit riding a safe environment, the hope is for a more varied group of riders then the Premier product tends to attract ( classrooms vary from event to event so a rider can return a number of times without repatition). When used correctly these events provide a wealth of information and instruction compared to a Track day but of course not as much as our Premier School (or any premium product), we hope the price reflects this void fairly.

You mentioned the classrooms were a ‘bit hit and miss’ and that ‘you weren’t really encouraged to attend’. In the briefing notes sent to you prior to the event it has a section marked Rider Clinics & Instruction and it states. “During the day there will be various classrooms and clinics, we recommend that you follow the itinerary (which is sent to you prior to the event and includes a description of the classes and their times), carefully to obtain the maximum out of your day and therefore not miss any sessions. Our School coaches will be taking up to a maximum of four pupils on circuit for set sessions. In addition to this we gave an announcement over the Tannoy for each classroom and track session, we appreciate that the system is not very good at BH, that’s why we supply a written itinerary.

On the subject of ‘promised instruction I feel you have a very valid point, due a very silly error involving the word ‘assumption’ the advanced groups as you quite rightly say did not get all or maybe even any of the tuition promised.
Both intermediate and experienced groups receive 3 X 20 minute instructed sessions followed a debriefing in a pre-designated area, Novices get four, in addition to that each group gets four classroom sessions on varying subjects. I have to concede that this did not happen for the advanced group and the blame for that lies entirely with ESS, but I do feel I need to make a couple of small points given the opportunity. The grid on which you assembled was 10-15 feet away from the garages where all instructors return and base themselves, a glance and a wave of the hand may have well seen this problem removed for all those that were unwittingly taking part including ourselves, whilst I accept your disappointment I do wish you had spoken to me on the day when I could have put the situation right. Alas that is not your job and we dropped the clanger but should you chose to return and there is something not right, please tell us right there and then.

In summary I can only apologise for that error, mistakes such as this are not a common theme and your replacement day should you chose to accept it will be without charge.

Regards
Tony Scott. ESS

Tony
I appreciate your response - it is well reasoned and considered, as I feel was mine.

(I am indeed the guy who originally believed that the day was on the 4th).


My thoughts;
As you rightly point out, the onus is on the provider to ascertain whether the service provided meets with the expectations of the customer, not the other way around. In this case they did not, as we agree.

I also work in the customer service industry and when dealing with potential customer satisfaction issues, I am fully aware that its not the customers who complain that should be addressed by the business, but rather the ones who don't.

In fact, its often the ones who complain the most that get the best service (as they get immediate, high level responses and focus) and the ones who don't that get the worst (as they may get disregarded).

Its this silent majority who may chose not to purchase your product again who should be addressed.

But how do you know that they may not come back to you if they don't tell you? Well you won't.

You may chose to address this potential (as I may be the only one who feels this) issue or you may not.

In my opinion, it is up to the service provider to discover this for themselves.

In my business we address this by constant communication, either through telephone, email or written communication. Or via usergroups or similar. These may or may not be appropriate for you to adopt in your business.

Either way, a program that allows some anonymous or considered feedback may benefit your business? Perhaps you could provide a feedback form for riders to complete at the end of the day, or at the end of each session? It may not be well utilised, but may provide some feedback.

Or perhaps you could provide a small chatroom forum on your website? Again may be difficult to manage and with each of these there is an associated cost.

To address some of our specific points, my reference to the CSS was to indicate that the more formal approach of the CSS suited me and I did suggest that others may prefer the approach that I received. (I appreciate that this was not one of your premier school days).

With regard to the classroom sessions, some of the attendees did not receive an itinery beforehand and I had only received mine 2 days before, enough time to review I agree, but again not the way that the CSS instigate a physical "round up" approach for their classroom sessions, to ensure full attendance.

Another point was that lunch was prought forward (by an hour when compared with the itinery) and this was not effectively communicated to the advanced group, as at least three of us were wondering why we had not been called for the 1pm session - again this may have been sent out over the tannoy - but it did not reach us.

Perhaps these are minor points, perhaps not.

Now - as I have the floor, I will also point out some positives;

I thought that the marshalling was excellent, and the chance to meet Shakey would have been worth it alone!! He was kind enough to take a lot of time to comment on my riding on the track and then to follow this up with constructive comments for my next 2 sessions - fantastic, this was much appreciated.

In summary, I did get something from the day (wet through!!!!), but it may not have been what was on the itinery (it was Shakey's valued advice) ?

I am unlikely to attend a ESS Sports Day again because of what I received from this day, but I may well a standard Pace day with you (in fact I'm already booked with you at Snetterton), or maybe a Premier race school (although I feel this is also unlikely as the CSS style suits my requirements better I feel).

I appreciate both your comments and your kind offer of a replacement day and I will be delighted to take you up on this - if its still on offer

Tim

[Henners]

Tony and Tim - thank you both for your fair and deeply held views on this event. I for one feel that this is what the DSC messageboard is all about in the most positive sense and makes the membership fee worthwhile - where else can you seriously debate issues that are of such interest to so many motorcyclists who are keen to improve their track ability? - one of the reasons the Sporting in DSC is there.