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#21 | |||||||
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Right. *rolls up sleeves*.... where do you want me to start???? I will happily pay for ANY 620 to be dyno'd with ANY 675 carbed bike on the same dyno, but you'll have to promise to re-imburse me if there isn't at least 7bhp difference. That's a modest 13% difference. To give you an idea that has the equivalent effect on power/weight as removing 22kg from the bike! Quote:
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Andrew produced the ride of the weekend as far as I was concerned. I hardly think this thread has anything to do with rider ability. I'm sure CK & AK are biting their tongues on the whole BB issue. Where would Andrew have ranked with a 680ie??? I had an enormous amount of fun on the weekend, I have huge appreciation for the race committee, but that needs to be reciprocated back to those that have invested a huge portion of their savings/loans/time on getting on to the grid. Cheers, ali |
#22 | ||||||||
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Excellent post Ali.......... Phil |
#23 | ||||
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i still dont understand . everyone had the opportunity to buy whatever eligible bike they wanted for the series. whats the issue? |
#24 | ||||
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I have to agree with most of what Michael has said(there has to be a first time for everything mate ) Both Neil and John Hackett, engine builders who KNOW about Ducati's have stated that a big bored 583 when set up properly with short manifolds and flat slides will MORE than live with a 620. In fact John's reasoning behind his initial development of a the '620' big bore kit was because he felt the 675's would have an advantage! Having watched all of the racing at the weekend I have to say that Geof Spencer was VERY smooth and fast everywhere I could see him, noticeably faster than most into and over the mountain-which is just race and track experience. Don't forget that Dave Riley riding a standard-eg not specially dynoed and set up-620 monster with only 1 disk- was leading race 2 for the first 2 laps-and he is a novice rider, and Andrew Johnson finished 5th on a 583! John [Edited on 3-5-2005 by Monty] |
#25 | ||||
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Is it just me or does it seem to be just the people who have 620's or the rule setters who seem to be in denial about the 620's advantage? I'm sorry Monty, but I think you've spent too long hanging around in the rarified atmosphere surrounding top engine builders like Neil Spalding and John Hackett. I'm sure that it is possible to build a flat slide carbed 674 cc bike that is quicker than a 620. If you happen to have the budget and the renowned engine building skills of Mr Hackett or Mr Spalding to do it. By the time you've done that it's going to cost you more money than it would've done to buy a 620 in the first place. Meanwhile, back in the real world, guys who thought that the series was started as the antidote to 'cheque book racing' are spending untold hours in unheated lockups with a few spanners and a socket set doing everything themselves. The knowledge that John Hackett or Neil Spalding could build them a race winning engine is about as relevant to guys on a budget as walking to the moon and back. Fine in theory but it's never gonna happen. These are the guys that I believe the race series was conceived around and I think the rules have stitched them up. They've spent thousands only to find that they are outclassed by people with bigger pockets. You only had to look at the 3-4 lengths that the 620's were putting on 674's along the very short start finish straight after being neck and neck at Barn to see the advantage they've got. It's clear from the stands, never mind the view from the saddle. The difference on circuits with longer straights is going to be huge. Here's a thought. Instead of trying to level the series (albeit too late) with talk of how the 583/674 people should spend another thousand or so to get flat slides and some serious engine building done, how about asking John Hackett and Neil Spalding to work out the size of inlet restrictor that would be needed to restrict 620's or 680's to 52 bhp. Shouldn't be hard for top engine builders to work out and would cost the 620/680 boys about £20 |
#26 | ||||
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i still dont understand . everyone had the opportunity to buy whatever eligible bike they wanted for the series. whats the issue? |
#27 | ||||
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I didn't I couldn't afford a 620 but was told that a big-bored 600 would create equal power. Re-reading Neil Spalding's Rules Guide on his website also suggests this too, taking it one step further by saying that changing the manifolds and carbs would *increase* the power over a 620 - not make it level. Based on this, I did the sums and still couldn't afford a 620, but could afford the 600 with the big-bore. At least Jools is seeing the bigger picture too. |
#28 | ||||
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"""I have to agree with most of what Michael has said(there has to be a first time for everything mate ) Both Neil and John Hackett, engine builders who KNOW about Ducati's have stated that a big bored 583 when set up properly with short manifolds and flat slides will MORE than live with a 620. In fact John's reasoning behind his initial development of a the '620' big bore kit was because he felt the 675's would have an advantage! Having watched all of the racing at the weekend I have to say that Geof Spencer was VERY smooth and fast everywhere I could see him, noticeably faster than most into and over the mountain-which is just race and track experience. Don't forget that Dave Riley riding a standard-eg not specially dynoed and set up-620 monster with only 1 disk- was leading race 2 for the first 2 laps-and he is a novice rider, and Andrew Johnson finished 5th on a 583! John""""" U can hardly call dave Riley a novice Monty or Andrew johnson... Im sure i have the wrong perspective on this monty but you always fall on the side of the JHP Simga " known " riders side.?!?!?!........there should be no sides in this.. The issue is not about the standard 620 its about the BIG BORED 620 that we all voted against.... im so tired of all this bullsh*it and for me and others its detracting from what was gonna be a top series......... Phil [Edited on 3-5-2005 by fil2] |
#29 | ||||
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everyone had the opportunity to buy whatever eligible bike they could afford for the series. When I investigated it to see if I could even afford to go racing at all (I obviously couldn't) you could pick up a carbed 600 for £1000 if you got lucky on eBay (more typically £1500). The cheapest 620 I saw (being a much newer model) was in the £3500 region. £2000 cheaper! so in theory I could get a 583 and have £2000 for race preparation for the same price as the cheapest unprepared 620, after all, the rules are set up to provide a level playing field. What part of "some people can't afford a 620" don't you understand? What part of |
#30 | ||||
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sorry i dont. if people are that bothered about winning trophies rather than having fun then they should have got a better bike to start with. i dont know much about bike tuning but it seems fairly obvious to me that if you want to get the best performance you start at the highest level possiible ie a 620. to use cash as an excuse is i think poor. if anyone wanted to borrow a grand to get a better bike it would cost them 20 odd quid a month. big deal. one and a bit less beers a week. |