Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > User Moderation

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I'd suggest you read the current club rules Ian......

The new constitution can be proposed by MT NOW - under the terms of the current rules a majority of members must disagree for it not to go ahead ( no procedures are outlined, another example of the poor wording and lack of accountability). this would mean the new rules are in place prior to AGM and members can then get the democratic changes they requested at last AGM. Delaying it will only cause further problems and could be perceived as some as another attempt to maintain a status quo.

Under the current rules MT can do almost whatever they like and without consultation, this is not a satisfactory situation for any "members club" and needs addressing quickly, the consequences of not doing so are plain to see.

I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say, (probably because I did not write it well enough). I agree that the MT can put out the new constitution now. But as you will appreciate we could hide behind the existing constitution and leave it for the AGM. I am not saying that we will, or that it was ever our intention to do so, - I was trying to point out that perhaps we are not the big bad bunch of controlling ogres that some accuse us of being. Hey the existing rules we the MT could vote to get rid of whoever we want to, with no consultation or justification or right to appeal ! !

Member input is important, - but equally the MT needs to be allowed to manage, - the communist utopian ideal of some where no committee is required just would not work with a club with the financial and liability responsibilities that we have. The only resistance to change that has been from the MT has only ever been to resist personal vendetta.

[Loz]

Ian
Wiith the greatest of respect, you haven't answered Gizmo's point. Can you do so please, asap?

When someone suggests a course of action, it is not sufficient to respond with a list of actions you do not intend to pursue. It is the course of action suggested you need to address.

Loz

Originally Posted by Ian

I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say, (probably because I did not write it well enough). I agree that the MT can put out the new constitution now. But as you will appreciate we could hide behind the existing constitution and leave it for the AGM. I am not saying that we will, or that it was ever our intention to do so, - I was trying to point out that perhaps we are not the big bad bunch of controlling ogres that some accuse us of being. Hey the existing rules we the MT could vote to get rid of whoever we want to, with no consultation or justification or right to appeal ! !

Member input is important, - but equally the MT needs to be allowed to manage, - the communist utopian ideal of some where no committee is required just would not work with a club with the financial and liability responsibilities that we have. The only resistance to change that has been from the MT has only ever been to resist personal vendetta.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Loz

Ian
Wiith the greatest of respect, you haven't answered Gizmo's point. Can you do so please, asap?

When someone suggests a course of action, it is not sufficient to respond with a list of actions you do not intend to pursue. It is the course of action suggested you need to address.

Loz

sorry Loz, - was n't trying to be obtuse, I am not sure that Gizmo actually asked a question. Trying to read it again and can't see a question mark.

[Jools]

Originally Posted by khushy

You (the paid up members) have given control of your club (voluntarily) to some people (MT) who you voted in - now your not happy with their behaviour (totally understandable) and you are acting as if you are either powerless to do anything about it or you like bitching but cant be bothered to do anything about it or you dont know you (the paid up members) can do something about it or you are too afraid to say anything or maybe I have just misread the situation and you are all totally happy and banging on about it and this thread is normal DSC behaviour!!!!!

Censorship - unacceptable
immature management of DD situations - unacceptable
Dictating who can and who cant do this that and the other - unacceptable
Reading PM's - TOTALLY unacceptable and unforgivable
Starting a load of sh*te on this thread - unacceptable and ban worthy

Being on the MT is a privilege - isnt it?? - being responsible for representing your fellow Ducatisti - who voted you in - in the first place.

Threads less worthy than this one (originally started by MT) have been deleted!!!!

Its a bleedin bike club . . .

we own bikes
we ride/race bikes
we help eachother
we trade stuff

how bloody complicated can it get - get rid of management - stop all the pointless committee meetings (they solve NOTHING) - form a club based on common goals/interests in mind and get on with enjoying life - nobody needs to be incharge - maybe thats the root of the problem.

As for those power-crazed, control-freaky, dictatorial, ego-centric - sad individuals on the MT (you know who you are) you really need to sort yourselves out guys and resign immediately to save at least some of your dignity OR sort this sh*te out now!!!!

Khushy
(preparing to be a flamed, b banned, c sent to bloody Coventry (ewwww)

I think Khushy makes some valuable points here.

I am an MT member. I was voted in at the last AGM to try and breathe some new life into the DSC regions. As Khushy says, being on the MT is a real privilege, not because there is any financial reward, nor are there any perks - it's just hard and often thankless work. I'm not whinging about this, I knew that any work I did on the clubs behalf would be expected of me by the membership otherwise why would I volunteer for it. What I mean about privilege is that I personally feel honoured that the members of this club see fit to have me represent them.

Why did I put myself up for MT membership? Quite simply because when I started riding Ducatis there were no other clubs apart from this one and the DOC (and I decided this one was less crusty). The rise of the internet means that there are now other places for Ducati addicts to get their fix, but back then there was no Ducatisti forum and there was no DuN, this was the place to be. Through this club, it would not take too much of a stretch of the imagination to say it has changed my life for the better. I have discovered a whole raft of Ducati related things to enjoy but most importantly I have discovered a whole new group of friends all over the country. In my local region I'm truly proud to say that the people that I've met through the DSC have become some of the best friends that I've ever had. That is why I put myself up for MT membership - simply to try and give something back for all that I've gained.

What saddens me is that the club has developed a faction of people for whom the MT is seen as their sworn enemy. There are different groups of people for whom the MT can do nothing right, all for their own reasons. People have their individual reasons for this animosity towards the MT. Perhaps they have had arguements with individual MT members in the past, perhaps they don't always agree with the direction that the MT is taking, perhaps they feel aggrieved or persecuted by the MT, perhaps they simply have a personal hatred of individual MT members or a personal agenda that contradicts what the MT try to do for the club, maybe grievances from the DD race series have spilled over to the mainstream of the DSC, perhaps they are intolerant of any mistakes made by the MT.

Whatever the reasons and however this viewpoint of the MT has arisen, it seems that detractors of the MT have tarred all of us with the same brush. We are portrayed as some sort of scheming, power crazed egotists who want nothing more than complete, draconian, orwellian control of the club, everyone in it and everything to do with it.

This is not completely without reason. I agree with all the comments Khushy has made about censorship, poor management (or more likely inexperienced management of rapidly changing requirements) and particularly about the lack of privacy in PM's. This is all unacceptable and must stop.

However, it is also unacceptable to accredit the whole MT with evil and malicious intent, or to single out MT actions as persecution. The facts are that on a board with so many people on it there will be the inevitable nastiness that occurs between people. How to deal with inappropriate postings is not an enviable task, particularly when factional infighting breaks out. Where do you draw the line about what constitutes censorship? If we didn't censor anything how long would it be before bigotted, nastiness breaks out?

It is also disingenuous to promote the view that the MT are an unelected dictatorship, if you really care about the club, if you feel so passionately that the current MT are a bunch of no-hopers, then change it. You can put yourself forward for election to an MT position and get voted in.

I intend to put myself forward for re-election because I cling to the hope that this club still has the ideas and the energy to offer events and activities of real value to anybody who owns and rides a Ducati, that it can even extend a friendly hand to people who own any other type of bike or even no bike at all. Other forums such as DuN and Ducatisti do a fine job, but I believe that this club offers that little bit more that the other forums do not necessarily see as their purpose in life. Anybody who went to the 2 day trackday at Cadwell, or actually went to any DD meetings or went to the BMF would see that the DSC does go that little bit further. The other forums don't run themselves, there's some fine work going on behind the scenes from some selfless, harworking and dedicated individuals, but if you want to undertake more than that, you will need people who are willing to step up to the plate and put the work in to organising stuff. In other words, if you tried to do the things that the DSC does without an MT, you would soon find that you would need an MT and have to invent one.

I would just like to appeal for calm. We have a great club, but it is not immune to people making mistakes, acting in a politically inept way or just being plain clumsy in trampling on other peoples ideas. I believe that there is a vision for the way forward (at least there is in my mind), even if that vision is difficult to see given that there's a tempest blowing a lot of dust around right now.

I also believe that as we approach next year, we will colectively be able to lay out those ideas and visions and develop them into real deliverable activities that will be of value to everyone in the club. Given the chance and mutual respect between the MT and the people that vote for them I believe that we can do this.

Somebody put forward the proposition that this club is childlike and I have had this analogy in mind for several months now.

When the club was in it's infancy it didn't have any real idea of what it wanted to do, but the sun shone and everything it did was fun - just like it was when you were 7 years old. Now the club has reached it's teenaged years, it's started to get a bit more ambitious and push the boundaries, started to take on risky things. At this stage it also has a lot of hormones flying about and some days wakes up hating itself, and the rest of the world, without really knowing why. Adolescence is a painful time, I can't wait until we grow up.

[phoenix n max]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I

Under the current rules MT can do almost whatever they like and without consultation, this is not a satisfactory situation for any "members club" and needs addressing quickly, the consequences of not doing so are plain to see.

No thats not satisfactory at all.

Ian - re the meeting that only one attended - was a new consitution put in place at this meeting ?

Also apologies if all this has been done - but frankly I haven't taken much notice - it's only recent events that have drawn my attention to how this club is run rightly or wrongly. A few things have been said which raised my interest and one of them being the lack of clarity re being able to vote out alleged or deemed unsatisfactory influences.

[Loz]

Originally Posted by Ian

sorry Loz, - was n't trying to be obtuse, I am not sure that Gizmo actually asked a question. Trying to read it again and can't see a question mark.

No worries, Ian
Nope, no question in Gizmo's post and no reference to a question in mine, either. It was Gizmo's points that I ask you to address, not any questions.

You took the time to respond to Gizmo's post, I'm simply asking if you will take a bit more time to respond to the points he raised. Thank you.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

I'd suggest you read the current club rules Ian......

I have many times and read at least 2 points out loud to the MT on Saturday!

Originally Posted by Gizmo

The new constitution can be proposed by MT NOW - under the terms of the current rules a majority of members must disagree for it not to go ahead ( no procedures are outlined, another example of the poor wording and lack of accountability).

It is about to be proposed by the MT with the recommendation to the membership to accept it.

Originally Posted by Gizmo

this would mean the new rules are in place prior to AGM and members can then get the democratic changes they requested at last AGM. Delaying it will only cause further problems and could be perceived as some as another attempt to maintain a status quo.

I am not sure if they can be, but would bow to superior knowledge and other MT input on this. I could be wrong with my assumption that the new constitution would come into play at the AGM and not before. My thoughts are that we would have to give reasonable notice time for their adoption; - I have no objection for them to be adopted tomorrow, and get us moving forward in a positive way.

Originally Posted by Gizmo

Under the current rules MT can do almost whatever they like and without consultation, this is not a satisfactory situation for any "members club" and needs addressing quickly, the consequences of not doing so are plain to see.

Yep, current rules that all members agreed to when joining give the MT a lot of power and questionable accountability, - I have never denied that. The rules were written to guard against hostile take over which was a potential threat when the club was starting. I would rather look forward to what we can do to move this club forward.

[Loz]

Ian
Thank you for responding. All that's needed now is action.

Cheers,
Loz

[Redruth]

Originally Posted by phoenix n max

No thats not satisfactory at all.

Ian - re the meeting that only one attended - was a new consitution put in place at this meeting ?

Also apologies if all this has been done - but frankly I haven't taken much notice - it's only recent events that have drawn my attention to how this club is run rightly or wrongly. A few things have been said which raised my interest and one of them being the lack of clarity re being able to vote out alleged or deemed unsatisfactory influences.

Lynn, the draft was discussed, but was still to be subject to further amendments. There is currently no right enshrined in this draft for members to vote anyone out.

[phoenix n max]

Originally Posted by Redruth

Lynn, the draft was discussed, but was still to be subject to further amendments. There is currently no right enshrined in this draft for members to vote anyone out.

Thanks hun.