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  #21  
Old 21-Dec-2005, 21:06
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TP TP is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Edwards
The various MiniTwins series are more than happy to see lots of Ducati machines during 2006 and we will do our best to accommodate you (see certain rule changes for 2006) but, please, let's all stick to the same set of rules to make it fair for everyone across the country. Trying to encourage different rules at different clubs will only see the series shrink and create confusion as to what is a legitimate MiniTwins bike and what isn't.

I don't post this to be antagonistic but I think you've only gone half way in your rule changes. I know you've allowed a power commander to be fitted to get around the fact that you can't change the internally stored maps on the 800SS ECU. But, why did you stop at allowing replacement ECU's to get around the clock, ECU and red key anti-theft measure that Ducati has built in? A simple option is to replace the ECU with the FIM version but you don't allow it, this will enable the bike to be run without the original clocks etc.

Do you think that this gives a measurable advantage over just adding a power commander?

I really don't understand this one Mike.
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  #22  
Old 21-Dec-2005, 23:35
Mike Edwards Mike Edwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TP
I don't post this to be antagonistic but I think you've only gone half way in your rule changes. I know you've allowed a power commander to be fitted to get around the fact that you can't change the internally stored maps on the 800SS ECU. But, why did you stop at allowing replacement ECU's to get around the clock, ECU and red key anti-theft measure that Ducati has built in? A simple option is to replace the ECU with the FIM version but you don't allow it, this will enable the bike to be run without the original clocks etc.

Do you think that this gives a measurable advantage over just adding a power commander?

The reason we didn't allow the replacement of the ECU was that after discussion with a number of people, including Ducati experts such as Geoff Baines, the feeling was that it would make policing the series very difficult.

Most ECU replacements, including just changing the EPROM on some of the earlier bikes, allow the ignition advance to be altered. At least if we restrict everyone to standard ECUs then we can keep track of what people are doing and create a fair series for more people.

The rules for the series continue to evolve and had we had such feedback at some point during the last year when we changed the rules to specifically allow larger air cooled motors, done with Ducati in mind, we could have had more time to investigate the pros and cons of such a suggestion.

Surely the majority of riders have no trouble keeping their red keys to hand so don't have any problems with using the stock ECU. I appreciate that Nigel is a special case but in most circumstances I don't see it as being a problem.
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  #23  
Old 21-Dec-2005, 23:36
Mike Edwards Mike Edwards is offline
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Originally posted by ericthered40
Good on yu fella I been sitting here waiting for that response.

Rather than comments such as that maybe you have something useful to contribute?
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  #24  
Old 21-Dec-2005, 23:39
Mike Edwards Mike Edwards is offline
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Originally posted by twpd
Ooops! Someone didn't like having some pertinent questions being asked about the even-handedness and consistency of the minitwin regs. The thread has been removed from NG's website.

And that sort of attitude sums up exactly why the thread *was* removed!
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  #25  
Old 22-Dec-2005, 00:14
Felix Felix is offline
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Christ! Is it winter by chance?

Why does everybody want to change the rules? The rules are there, if you like them get a bike that fits the rules. Sorry, this may be irritating some of you, but rules are there to be exploited not changed. Just my view...
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  #26  
Old 22-Dec-2005, 00:27
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DSC Region Organiser skidlids skidlids is offline
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Felix I asked the question on NG as it is there series I want to run in. On there site they have the 2004 rule book posted as such I was enquiring if they would be adopting the 2005 rulebook (No 2006 rules published at that time) and if they were could they possibly allow for the use of modified airbox lids on air cooled Ducatis. Not a unreasonable request at the time of year.
But here is a bit more of what went on and when you get to the end you may see why it would be in NGs interests to attract more bikes to their MT grid.


WHAT WENT ON

The Thread on NG website was removed at MY REQUEST as mentioned in my post above.

And why did I start the thread in the first place. Because I thought NG were running there own series independent of other Minitwin series and the regs they had posted on their website was the 2004 rules, where as on the Bemsee and Minitwins websites they had differnt rules called the 2005 Minitwin rules.
So I asked if the rules would be updated for 2006 and if so would modified airboxes be allowed.
A response on the NG website suggest I use the email link on the Minitwin website to ask the questions, which I did. I posted my questions and the answer and then left my feedback both on here and the NG site.

Now as A SoT regular with NG for a few years I saw the grid dwindle to the point where every race was for half points. With half a grid to fill NG decided to fill it by starting a Minitwins class originally sponsored by my mate Paul from the Suzuki shop just down the road from where I work. The intention to be offer a cheaper form of racing a twin compared to SoT and hence attract racers to the grid.

Now in its current format I would not say it has been that successful

NG 2005 Minitwin entries first 2/3 of the year
rd 1 5 X MT Pembrey
rd 2 4 X MT Pembrey
rd 3 4 X MT Darley Moor
rd 4 4 X MT Darley Moor
rd 5 10 X MT Silverstone
rd 6 5 X MT Cadwell
rd 7 5 X MT Cadwell
rd 8 11 X MT Brands
rd 9 11 X MT Brands
rd10 4 X MT Pembrey
rd11 4 X MT Pembrey
rd12 6 X MT Donington

So only when at Silverstone and Brands where the MRO riders used it for a bit more practice you can see it hasn't exactly filled the other half of the grid, not even at Donington where my mates son Craig Polden turned up to take the win.

CONCLUSION
To me it made sense to ask for a simple rule modification to a out of date rule book (2004) that may encourage a few entrants on ducatis and also to clarrify what spec I should build my 750SS to.
Now if anybody sees anything wrong in that they really should take a long hard look at themselves.

Kev
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  #27  
Old 22-Dec-2005, 00:30
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DSC Region Organiser skidlids skidlids is offline
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Just checked still 2004 rule book http://www.ngroadracing.org/Pdf/minitwins.pdf
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  #28  
Old 22-Dec-2005, 00:32
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DSC Region Organiser skidlids skidlids is offline
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And while on the subject as someone else decided to start it off again.

As for the airbox mod on a Ducati if you study the text and graphs here http://moto-one.com.au/performance/750ssie.html it can be seen that not only does it improve throttle response but it also adds approximately 5% more power from the middle of the rev range up to the redline which when combined with open pipes and the correct fueling curve gives a good 5bhp over the standard bike.

It is a cheap mod that has benifits something that most racers try to find and if it costs next to nothing, Yet it narrows the bhp gap on the competition its not suprising that racers would want it.

I would expect my 750SS when finished and set up with the airbox lid fitted to put out around 62bhp with the airbox lid standard and With a modified lid I could be looking at 65bhp.

Now with a class limit of 72bhp that some bikes will no doubt be very close to it doesn't take a Genius to work out that 72bhp - 65bhp = 7bhp difference which is better than 72bhp - 62bhp = 10bhp difference.
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  #29  
Old 22-Dec-2005, 00:36
Felix Felix is offline
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I don't disagree with what you're saying, Kev, and completely see your point. My comments weren't directed specifically at you, Kev. This is certainly not an isolated case and it just struck a nerve.
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  #30  
Old 22-Dec-2005, 00:39
Mike Edwards Mike Edwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by skidlids
Just checked still 2004 rule book http://www.ngroadracing.org/Pdf/minitwins.pdf

As far as I can see the link to the Regulations section of the NG web site is broken. Perhaps when they fix it they will post an up to date set of regulations.

Not the end of the world as everyone was policed tot he 2005 rules anyway.
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