Ducati Sporting Club UK > Model Specific - Discussion, Technical Problems and Help > 998 / 996 / 916 / 748 > the old power debate

[Mr_S]

R's have a different frame as one of crossmembers is different for the deeper airbox. There's been some threads about fitting the R airbox to the other bikes, and it involves a bit of modification to the airbox (or the frame if your brave....)

If I were after more power, I'd go for a 996 and transplant my special parts across.

But then again, I do know where there's and 853RS.....

[Webcore]

I've just had a 996S engine fitted to my 916 by Steve at Moto Rapido - It seems like this was pretty straightforward (apart from 3 hours to get a damaged swingarm pin out!)
The S engine needed sleeves for the mounting bolts as they are 10mm on the 916 and 12mm on the 996.
The throttle bodies came from the 916 but as Felix said, I think the 748 has smaller ones so you'll need to source some, airbox should be ok and you will need an oil cooler.
Only thing that doesn't work at the moment is the neutral light as Ducati changed the way this works between the 916 and 996 but it should be a fairly simple mod with a couple of wires. Besides, neutral is usually pretty easy to find and the old one used to lie anyway.
I have an FIM Ultimap chip so refuelling was just a matter of tweaking over a few dyno runs.
If you go for the S engine instead of an SPS you basically get the same engine but with the flywheel to suit your ECU instead of the P8 computer version.
Only other mod to mine was a Ferracci lightweight flywheel - the final dyno run measured 127.6bhp at the rear wheel which was a pleasant surprise to me, Steve and Wilf as we were expecting about 123.
The old 916bip engine made 106 at the wheel - the extra 20 horses is still making me smile! No more trouble getting past 600s I hope.

[Webcore]

Oh - and an 853 kit is pretty much a set of 916 barrels and pistons!
I also weighed up the cost of going to 955 with the 916 and by the time i bought cams etc it came to more than the transplant.

[Mr_S]

Originally posted by Webcore

The throttle bodies came from the 916 but as Felix said, I think the 748 has smaller ones

748 has restrictors within the throttle bodies that can either be machined out, or replaced with TB's from a larger capacity bike.

I believe it's due to Supersport restrictions.

[Mr_S]

Originally posted by deej
it could be fun seeing their faces when my little od slow 748 keeps up with them on the straights and then ****es all over them in the bends.

Just get a 996/8 and stick 748 fairings on it

[Webcore]

748 fairings - now there's an idea.......

[Felix]

MotoDesigns in York just fitted one of Nelly's 853 kit to a 748SPS, to create a 853SPS. It was fired up last weekend, but the first ride report is still to come. Should be good fun.

[Jools]

Originally posted by TP
Deej, I think you could get a bit carried away chasing horsepower. Having said that, I think it really depends on your riding. Take Jools for example. He has a similar amount of power and more than holds his own in the fast groups and on the rideouts.

Nice of you to say so TP, but I wouldn't mind a bit more power myself.

In my mind it depends completely on how, and where you ride. If you do most of your riding on trackdays, then you will want every last drop of power you can lay your hands on, although even on the track there is something to be said for predictable power characteristics like a Duke rather than hitting the powerband on an IL4 and finding yourself spat off the highside. Control is more important than out and out bhp, as even the MotoGP teams are discovering.

If you're like me and do most of your riding on the road, with two or three trackdays a year, then how much power do you really need? Not much is the answer. I've only got 83 bhp on my ST2 and I can keep up with most people because 83 bhp is enough power to go as fast as most people would want to go on the road and remain this side of sheer lunacy. The limiting factor is not power, but the road conditions and the rider. The guys I ride with are pretty quick, but ride within their limits and the road conditions. There are lots of people who are quicker on the road than me, but that's mostly because they're better riders not because they have another 40-50 bhp.

I've said it before, and I will say it again, that my ideal road bike would be a grunty V-twin with about 100 bhp and weigh about 160 Kg. Paul Mort's Bloooooo Duke is not far off my ideal road bike (except that it still weighs a little more than my ideal....oh, and it's blue which is not my cup of tea - sorry Mort).

Any more than that and you can't really use the power on the road...except on the straight bits. The straight bits are not where it's at for me cos anyone can twist a throttle wide open on a straight bit.

Summat like the red beastie in the background with MBP testarossa heads, BST wheels, Brembo billet calipers, Brembo radial brake and clutch master cylinders and Ohlins all round would do me nicely ta




[Edited on 30-3-2005 by Jools]

[Edited on 30-3-2005 by Jools]

[TP]

Originally posted by Jools
Nice of you to say so TP, but I wouldn't mind a bit more power myself.

I would have considered this easy for me to say I suppose, my 996 has approx 120 rwbhp thanks to Neil Spalding plus shorter gearing and a lightened flywheel for added excitement

But, having just done a track day on the 620 monster sporting around 60 rwbhp I can understand the frustrations of people with less bhp. Bearing in mind as well that the 620 is still heavier than the CBR's, R6's etc that have over 100bhp. I found that I would get blown away on the straights and held up in the corners, or I'd get the chance to go around the outside of some people on much faster bikes. Initially I found that immensely satisfying but then just frustrating as they'd go by me again, at the end of the day they are just worse riders than me. They may have had problems, not had the suspension set up etc etc ... who knows.

This is why I think that a good torquey midrange is the most important engine characteristic and behind well setup suspension as the most important mods to a bike. A good torquey midrange will fire you out of corners, you'll be on the power quicker than the big bore boys and give yourself more of a chance of not being mugged by the next corner ....

As a reminder of how it being more about rider skill ... a guy on a SuperMotard came past me and I couldn't catch him. I was right behind him going into Paddock Hill bend and he was leaning back with his foot out. I was laughing in my helmet ....

[Jools]

Or of course...one of these.



If you're listening Santa, I'll be a good boy all year...promise.

Read about it HERE

[Edited on 30-3-2005 by Jools]