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Old 26-May-2009, 20:28
SixtyTwo SixtyTwo is offline
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- Maxxis Tyre Test -

As some of you know, I had the opportunity to try out a set of Maxxis tyres in the non-championship races at Snetterton. The idea was to see if they would do the same job as the Pirelli Diablo but cost less. I used a set of Maxxis Supermaxx Sport ZR tyres that had seen an entire seasons use, they looked a bit knackered to be honest so it was a good test of what the tyres are like when not at their best.

What we want from our tyres in DesmoDue is a tyre that will work in the wet and the dry, last a few races and most importantly is cheap. This is after all a budget series, if we just wanted a grippier tyre Pirelli or any other manufacturer offer many solutions. If we are to change tyre then it would have to do everything the Diablo already does but for less money.

So, does the Maxxis tyre cut it? Forget the name, it may not be a Pirelli but that doesn’t mean it will be any worse a tyre. Maxxis have been making competitive products for years just slightly out of the mainstream markets (look at karting, quad bikes or mountain bikes).

The Maxxis tyres are SOFT. Straight away it’s obvious the compound is a lot different to the Diablo, turn into a corner and you can really feel the tyre gripping, the feedback to the rider is instantly much better than the Diablo. The Maxxis’ warm up very quickly and inspire huge amounts of confidence in comparison to the ‘wooden’ Diablos. I was comfortably running at the same pace as the bikes on Pirellis after just a few laps on a bike I had never ridden and wasn’t set up for me.
Where the Diablo often disappoints is corner entry where it is too easily overwhelmed by braking forces when turning in. This was where I found the Maxxis tyre to have a real advantage, the front tyre was fantastic into corners offering a huge amount of grip and a lot of feel.
The Diablo I think is much better on corner exit, where it gives excellent feel when on the limit. This is where I found the Maxxis tyres not as good, with little warning before a slide, although this could be due to me not knowing the tyre as well as I do the Diablo. This got me into a tricky situation at Russell bend, where I was close to dropping the bike as the back stepped out under power.

The fact is that the Pirelli tyre does exactly what we ask of it, it works in the wet and the dry and for plenty of riders lasts most of the season. I don’t really think that the Maxxis tyre had much if any more grip, it was just easier to access the grip that it had. The Maxxis did look as if it was wearing quickly, however it had already done far more miles than I would ever ask of a race tyre, showed no signs of going off and had plenty of tread left.

A nice sunny weekend meant that I couldn’t try out the tyre in the rain. The soft rubber would transmit what grip there is to the rider but beyond that I can’t say whether it would stick better or worse than a Diablo, or if that minimal tread pattern would be any good when mixed with standing water.

The majority of us currently pay Holbeach £160 for a fitted set of Diablos.
The Maxxis tyre is proposed to be at least 30% cheaper, it is quite possible that a deal could be struck up with Maxxis to further reduce the costs.
With Pirelli discontinuing the Diablo (depending on who you listen to) it will be important to find a new tyre that these bikes can run on. The Maxxis has proven itself well up to the task and is also cheap, now it just needs to be tested in the wet – which I am willing to do if someone wants to provide a ride!!
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Old 26-May-2009, 20:54
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Rattler Rattler is offline
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Interesting, but not extensive testing and seemingly inconclusive (as you suggest each has benefits and weaknesses)?

If I understand your findings, the Maxxis is better going into a corner, (as the Diablo is overwhelmed?) but not as good coming out (as its more likely to slide?), the Maxxis will wear quicker (as is softer), but gives better feedback (as its softer). So can't last as long ? Can it?

It would be interesting to find out more, the trouble is that all DD riders know what Diablos will do, good or bad, better the devil etc..

The only real advantage that the Maxxis might have would be price, if this is compelling enough (ie significantly cheaper and lasts as long as the Diablo) then its worth further investgation, but if its a just a bit cheaper, then there would be reluctance to change I feel, as the tyre budget, when compared with the race fees, really isn't a make or break for most riders; ie 2 sets (for a season) for £320, which is a race weekend's fees. A saving of £70 or so here on Maxxis is not a lot across a whole season (but every little helps ) when riders will have to "learn" new tyres etc....

I don't know if you're working for Maxxis or linked or what, but you're running up against the grain here I think, as the Diablos work well, are reasonably priced, and most importantly are a known entity. They'd need to be a lot cheaper to break the mould I feel. We won't even open the insurance liability can of worms though !!!

Its interesting and there's been long, previous debates as to changing tyre types, warmers, wets, etc... I don't feel there's an appetite for change really. But good luck.

But lets have a few free sets and we can all go and test them!!! wahey!!!

Tim

Last edited by Rattler : 26-May-2009 at 20:59.
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Old 26-May-2009, 21:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixtyTwo
This got me into a tricky situation at Russell bend, where I was close to dropping the bike as the back stepped out under power.

Not going to get into the tyre mass debate yet , but I feel you underestimate what your save looked like from immediately behind
Talk about star jumps while moving


Paul

15th year in DD #68 and getting slower by the year

1199, SS800 & 620SSie DD racer
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Old 26-May-2009, 22:19
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As a newbie to the series (and to Snetterton), I was amazed how well the Diablos performed on a fast track. Their feel may be an acquired taste, but their ultimate grip levels are astonishing.

I know Maxxis make a good tyre, but I'm with the 'if it aint broke' brigade!

Last edited by injected : 26-May-2009 at 22:25.
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Old 27-May-2009, 00:11
SixtyTwo SixtyTwo is offline
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Tim, your quite right it was not extensive testing at all, just two races on a new bike and a new track (to me). The idea was to try a rival tyre and see how it fared against the current choice.

The situation is that the Diablo tyres do the job we ask and I personally have no complaints, I am happy as long as we all run on the same tyre.
I believe the issue is with supply and cost of H rated Pirelli Diablo tyres.

I am not suggesting a mid-season tyre change at all, however i think it is likely that a new tyre might be looked at for next year, or possibly for the class a bikes. i had the opportunity to test a cheaper tyre in direct competition with the diablos and found them to be everything the Diablos are but at a lower price. The tyres are also quite possibly a safer alternative to the Diablos, although that will depend on their wet capabilities.

As for wearing out quickly, the tyres i rode had done literally hundreds of miles and were still up to scratch. I agree that maybe the fast class a bikes would wear through them quickly, but no faster than a diablo. The tread also seemed to retain its profile instead of rounding off like the Pirellis

Paul, i consider it a compliment that youd call it a save! i actualy thought id crashed but the bike was still upright so i just carried on
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Old 27-May-2009, 00:41
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Imola Duke Imola Duke is offline
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Just out of interest.........

Did you use them in the class B race's on Sunday ?
because i would like a pair to try out in non championship scoring rounds ?

Good luck at Mallory Sam, I have money on you for a double win
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Old 27-May-2009, 03:38
SixtyTwo SixtyTwo is offline
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thanks, i just hope it goes better than my snetterton efforts! 2 DNFs doesnt do me any good for championship points
yes it was the sunday races in class B. as for trying them out i wasnt the one who had to arrange it, but id say first step would be PM riders rep Trudi Palmer and see if its ok
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Old 27-May-2009, 03:39
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As Sam was up the creek without a paddle on Sunday and as Nog had offered to lend Sam his bike and asked if I would consider letting Sam use the Maxxis tyres already fitted to it.
After discussing it with several Class B riders and Trudi the Class B rep we thought it would give us an oppotunity to have an independent view of these tyres by someone that is genuinely already pushing Diablos close to the limit.

As such IT WAS A ONE OFF CONCESSION and as I spent a lot of race 1 on Sunday swapping places with Sam I had a close up look at there performance.

Normally I don't get to see which way Sam went but on Sunday I did, was this because of the slight improvements made to my bike or Sam's lack of track knowledge, or was it the unfamiliar bike or was it the tyres, who knows for sure.
As mentioned it wasn't a definitive test but I think of it as an unbiased test and have had several discussions with Sam about the tyres.

From Sam's feedback they sound as they make a 583 feel the same as it does when its on Pirelli Super Corsas which I have used on my 583 a couple of years ago in Mini Twins where I found I could lap Pembrey in the 1m 10s bracket, but you wouldn't catch me using them for a wet race and its rarely that I sell them on after I have finished with them,

As for tyre price/life I have sold used scrubs on to mates before for £40 a pair usually 3 or 4 meetings old and my mate Adrian fitted one of those sets to his CBR600 and rode down through France to Italy and back covering a couple of thousand miles and still got lots of use of them after that, I know Dave (Monstermob998) has also done several thousands of road miles on used scrubs.
So effectively my current set of Diablos cost me less than £100 and future sets are likely to cost me £120 a cost I find very reasonable having previously spent far more than that when racing in other series.

When the tyres that were used are discribed as having had a seasons use I'm unclear on what that means, was it a race season, if so on what bike and in which series and at what sort of pace.

It is both easy to make a case for change or for sticking with what is known but there is One big outstanding question, what would they be like in the wet, many of us already know how a Diablo behaves in the wet and that wet racing can vary from track to track.

Maybe the allcomers races offer a oppotunity to try different tyres as the grids are made up of differnt classes using different tyres and the trophies go to the top 3 finishers, no trophies for first in class etc. There is no way a 64bhp (or 59 in my case) Class A bike on Diablos is going to match a 75bhp F400 bike on Super Corsa Pros if its dry or what ever wets they use when it rains. Something I will need to check out with New Era.


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Old 27-May-2009, 11:47
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Imola Duke Imola Duke is offline
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Interesting stuff

Maybe Andy Shep could try them out on his 620 for some usefull
feedback.
Looking forward to the Wet test report..........
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Old 27-May-2009, 14:55
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Well if Andy is prepared to have a go in a non championship race and no one objects, I have a brand new pair that I am willing to hand over for such a test....and no, neither Sam nor I have any affiliation to Maxxis in any way shape or form, other than trying to save DD riders a fair wedge over a season....
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