Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Diablo Rosso's

[Senna3]

Originally Posted by faith-healer

Doesn't this whole debate highlight the futility of this season's two tyre rule anyway.

Until now Diablo's have been used successfully as a single (control) tyre to keep costs down....then this season Rosso's allowed as well (if they ever make any ).

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"



Senna'....I wasn't having a dig at you mate....just explaining my position as a "newbie" to 'DD'. I have raced before on treaded rubber, Avon's AM23/24 and they were pretty good 'of their time'.

no afence taken mate looking foward to meeting you and the rest of the newbies good to see fresh blood in the series

[chris.p]

Originally Posted by faith-healer

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"

Why would a standard Diablo be classed as a wet tyre & a rosso as a Dry tyre???

Yes, the Rosso has a small amount of untreaded edge to the rear tyre, but you must be a riding god if you think you will be able to lean the bike that far over in the wet on a standard diablo.

Wet behavior: find always your emotion
In the development of Diablo Rosso strong attention has been payed to the behaviour on wet road surface, always more important because of the increased performance of latest generation of machinery and of the growing performance of riders. The Front tread is designed to open the water layer; the calibrated grooves between rear crown and the edges disperse effectively the residual water, while the structure (based on Pirelli patented zero degree steel belt both on front and rear) maintains open the grooves even in extreme conditions.
With the support of the innovative compounds with balanced silica content, Diablo Rosso assures performance that satisfy the expectation of the most demanding riders.



Guess that say's it all really.


Chris

[nogaromill998]

Except the last line Chris.....'Oh yes, and you cant use them on a 600 cos we wont be making them in the correct size'........Lol....

[faith-healer]

Maybe I over simplified it a bit Chris' and you were reading some thing that wasn't actually there....

Because Diablo's are "very good in the wet" and Rosso's, though far stickier than Diablo's for dry racing, are not reputed to be as good as Diablo's in the wet, my wet/dry senario would seem to be logical.

But there again a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb' is always better than answering the question posed.

[Fastfasulli]

Can we go race yet!

[chris.p]

Originally Posted by faith-healer

Maybe I over simplified it a bit Chris' and you were reading some thing that wasn't actually there....

Because Diablo's are "very good in the wet" and Rosso's, though far stickier than Diablo's for dry racing, are not reputed to be as good as Diablo's in the wet, my wet/dry senario would seem to be logical.

But there again a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb' is always better than answering the question posed.

As far as I see it, the Diablo Rosso is the new Diablo, ie it's replacement.
The standard Diablo was and still is a good tyre,( I use it on the road) the Rosso as it's replacement is more technoloicaly adavanced, offering better grip at higher lean angles in the dry, better wet weather capabilities in removing water from between the road and the surface of the tyre, better silica content etc(this is the one that makes it grip better in the wet)

How do you substantiate that the Rosso is not good in the wet???

" a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb "

If as you say the advertising was meaningless, then surley you should complain to the advertising standards agency, as all advertisers have to meet a strict code regarding what they say there product can and can not do, litigation is the modern way of sorting things out.


Before you can quantify that the standard Diablo is better than the Rosso, you need to have ridden/raced them first.


Chris

[Senna3]

Dosent the gruves on the tyre ie tread just move the water about it dont actully do the griping bit its the heat in the tyre that duz that and if its wet you dont lean the bike over as much so sureley then there is no difference in the two tyres in wet conditions but better grip in the dry not that ive any problems either way JUST A THOUGHT DONT SHOOT ME LOL

[Imola Duke]

I have never ridden on wets..........
I noticed in the paddock the amount of grooves/tread pattern on them
i guess the blocks/tread move around more and generate heat and remove standing water ?
I followed a race bike in the wet at a TD and it looked like he was leaving
a dry line


Just to add to this tyre thread
I'm hoping to buy a set of NEW tyres for this year..lol
I used Lily and Freaks part worns in 08

[Chris Wood]

Originally Posted by faith-healer

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"
.

I still need convincing that allowing wets is a more logical solution to a budget series? The single tyre rule, no wets, is one of the major factors in keeping the costs down in DD.

I'll put money on any rider in a 'blind' test being able to tell the difference and put in different times on either a Diablo or Rosso tyre, in either wet or dry.

Bike, fuel, tyres = race.

[skidlids]

Pirelli do a whole range of tyres that offer higher grip levels than standard Diablo, the Diablo is their main stream road tyre that motorcycle manufacturers would look to fitting as standard.
In such a competitive market Pirelli need to keep pace with the developments not only of the motorcycle makers but also their tyre competitors and the Diablo is now becoming a dated tyre with little or no input into its design from there research on the race tracks at WSB, WSS and BSB levels.
The first time I recall seeing a Diablo was at the 2003 TT on the Proddy class bikes, we just didn't know what they were called then, we just clocked the new tread pattern and it was only the top guys that had them (ie their developemnet riders), they weren't available to us dispite us getting our tyres from the offiical Pirelli dealer in the paddock. we had to make do with Super Corsas and for the Junior TT we had these cut to the edge.

Pirelli have no doubt planned to phase the Diablo out and replace it with the Diablo Rosso which will be better in many if not all areas and certainly will not offer anything less in any one area as this is the tyre targeted at the masses, the everyday road rider that encounters all different types of conditions all over the world, from rain soaked man-hole covers to sun scorched tarmac.

As the availability of Diablos dropped off last season (Holbeach could not supply me with a front 120/70/17 at Donington) it looked as though the change over would be happening sometime this year and as such the rules had to try and allow for this.

It now seems Pirelli have changed their plans about producing the Rossos in a H rating but there is little the DSC can do about that, The most that can be done is to either secure the supply of standard DD legal Diablos or get them to sanction the use of the ZR rated Rossos.

in my experience Pirelli/Metzeler have done more for club racers in the last 12 years than any other tyre brand, with support at the Manx GP and the TT, the Pirelli riders club, their on going suport fo NGRRCs Streetstocks and their support of the DD series. this support may not be as strong as it initially was but who could blame them with the remarks sometimes aimed at them on this and other websites, so gone have the free tyres to be given away as prizes but the tyres are still below rrp.
One of our local tyre suppliers who was out with us on Sunday on his 916-SPS looked into the standard prices and came back with £154 + VAT for a pair, so its not as though we are getting ripped off.