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  #11  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 11:48
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dont really know how it all works but arnt there a couple of races per meeting so 2 people could race at the same meeting? cuts costs, transport, set up time/cost. ok by missing races you're not going to be challenging for any titles but thats not the point i guess. always fancied having a go just for the fun of it.

999s.......13k/2 = 6.5 k plus racig cost for the year 3.5 k each? money back on bike at the end..............hmmmmm.......

team DSC..................
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  #12  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 11:52
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Not keen on bike sharing, only one could do the SoT race, although feasable at a 2 day meeting for one rider to have 2 races on one day and 4 on the other and vice versa, with this sort of entry fee running at around £250 each what happens if the bike gets wrecked in the saturdays first race or worse practice. with all the extra added costs of getting to a race meeting I'm sure one of the participants in a shared scheme would not be happy
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  #13  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 12:11
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Rattler Rattler is offline
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TP
I did look at getting a dedicated track bike previously and its a long story with many phases, but to summarise;

- I had a big road accident and decided that the road wasn't a safe place for my "committed riding", so really only do track days (with very limited road use).
- I converted a SPS for the track (fairings, slipper, brakes, flywheel, wheels etc), but crashed it expensively!!! - repaired and eventually sold her, but she was a lovely bike and had real character.
- decided to look at a ex-race bike or older Duke that represented a cheaper option for track days.
- eventually bought a ex-race R6, but didn't get on with it at all (no torque, had to strangle it to get any performance) - sold this on
- tried a few older (cheaper) Dukes, 748, 916 etc, but they realistically lacked the power that I was looking for and used to.
- bought a 996R (as I'd always wanted one) and turned this into a track bike!!! So I'd kinda gone against the "cheaper" option, but did
- I won't race this though for a number of reasons; - its too precious to crash, I'm not fast enough, I can't afford the time etc....

In reality I'm now starting to push a bit harder on the track and I'm a bit concerned about punting a circa £15K bike into the armco!

So what I'll probably do is put the R back to standard this winter and either sell it next year or stick it in the front room (proabably keep it for occasional road use)! Then I'd look for an old Gixxer thou' or similar - these have loads of power and are relatively cheap these days. You can get a lot of bike for £4K-£5K.

So I reckon it depends upon what you're looking to do - you could modify the S or get an 748RS or similar?

Tim
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  #14  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 12:22
Felix Felix is offline
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TP, why don't you do the minimum to your current bike to get it past scruteneering and enter the Donny round in October. See how you like it. Then, make these decisions for next year.

You'll be able to get your bike ready for very little money and it won't devalue the bike because of the one race meet. I really wouldn't worry about the amount of power for the 750/twins race, at least not in the first few races.

If you're then ready to commit yourself (and considerable funds) to racing, ponder these decisions over the winter and maybe pick up an end-of-season bike for reasonable money. Just remember, racing a Ducati is very expensive. Look at Weeksy's dilema. An RS will be mega expensive! Racing a Japanese bike will always be more economical.

Again, why not get your feet wet and see how you get on.
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  #15  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 12:49
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WeeJohnyB WeeJohnyB is offline
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Tim - you're worried about binning your beautiful 996R, yet you were offering me a go at Donny the other day......me, the first WeeJohnyB, on someone else's Ducati 996R, at Donington,with my reputation (too serious to contemplate)

I change my mind on this subject from day to day, buy big and expensive it's your only chance of getting up the grid or buy cheap as chips and enjoy yourself just as much.

Tim - you are fast enough to race EASY mate, plus racing itself will knock a couple of seconds off your times.

As regards your 996R - it would be competitive, although not had the money spent that the really serious and/or rich and/or sponsored guys have, but then is not a stock bike like some guys ride and get up to mid field.

If you can't afford to completely write off the total value of it in one big race accident, then don't race it. I've seen loads of crashed bikes after races that are worthless apart from the odd part, so you really must be prepared to put it in the skip. If you're thinking for one milisecond that you don't want to bin it, then you're already 5 seconds off the pace - racing is taking risks up to the very limit of your ability and then beyond it and then into a completely unknown area you never knew existed, (and then someone else still goes past you). I know this as I race my CB5 to the limit and beyond I think, but on Monty's TZ250, it's an entirely different story and despite the fact that I still cannot get to grips with riding such a race focussed stroker, the fact that it's not mine makes a massive difference regardless of what Monty says to me about not caring if it goes down.

TP - if you want to try racing to see if you like it, I wouldn't try and convert my expensive road bike only to write it off in my first race, or go to all that trouble and not like it (plenty try and hate it). Pick up something race ready and cheap, enter a race, do a few rounds and decide what you want to do for next season, then you've got all winter to sort it out.

If you're really keen to try racing, here's an offer - get your licence and enter a New Era CB500 club round and you can borrow my CB5 for the day, (break it you buy it rule applies).

Same goes for you Tim - why not get your licence and then come to Donny or Brands Indy with me and Monty - I only do the one CB5 race for a laugh as I'm concentrating on the TZ, so you could do the other race to get a feel for the utter madness that is club racing. This is a genuine offer if you fancy it mate(s).

WeeJohnyB

[Edited on 20-7-2004 by WeeJohnyB]
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  #16  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 13:32
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Rattler Rattler is offline
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WJB - I offered you a ride because you'd just binned the S4R - That's why I knew you'd look after her!

Thanks for the offer and I might just take you up on that offer of a ride on the CB500 - but I heard that the brakes were faulty!!!

Tim
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  #17  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 13:40
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TP TP is offline
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Thanks for the feedback, I like the fact that this thread has generated this level of interest. We are a sporting club after all so helping a member sort this process out is something thats good for the club and maybe for other members who are considering the same thing but haven't posted on the subject.

I've had a 20 minute conversation with Neil Spalding from Sigma this morning (who incidentally might pop his head around while we're at Donny) and he presented quite a good argument for converting my bike. Mainly based around it being well-prepped for it already (his grunter spec was designed when someone brought a 996 to him and wanted to go club racing - hence the even lower down the range high torque and power numbers) and being a known quantity. I would hate to buy a race Ducati and then face the daunting cost of a top end rebuild

The additional benefits from my point of view there would be that I get a bike at the end of it (I wouldn't sell it uness my circumstances dictated it) that had all manner of trick bits on it and it generally being a well sorted bike. Assuming I don't chuck it in a skip completely.

Having said that ... a few of you have said some things worthy of consideration. Felix has the best plan for cheaply getting into the race (Donny Oct 3) but contrasting that against WJB's stark reality of potentially throwing my road bike away in my first race meet just so I can get a taster - very expensive (Can you get insurance for this? It would be expensive if it existed I know - I would only do it if I was going to use my bike for the Donny taste test).

Thanks very much for your generous offer WJB - I think I will go ahead and get my ACU license but how much is the CB worth if I write it off?

I have read a bunch of blogs kicking around about people racing on the cheap - TZR's TZ's etc and other manner of Japanese machinery and I agree that it would be cheaper and still fun. But I really wanted to ride a Ducati - because I love them and I would like everything I learn on the track to be applicable to the other bikes I own (or intend to own eventually). I haven't ruled out that option but it's not what I want to do and I would only go down that road I think if I couldn't justify the money (or didn't have the money) to race a Ducati.

Neil also mentioned a 748 that he had just begging for an 853 kit and a flogging .... hrmmm ... possibly cheaper.

I don't want to look like a ponderous fool but please remember what stage I'm in at looking at this - embryonic so I'm bound to ask stupid q's and dither around - I have been accused of analysis paralysis before. I blame my job.

So far the best option (and wife friendly option) appears to be to race the CB in New Era and get a taster.


Lots of thinking to do - thanks everyone for all your help. Please if you know of websites where I can buy racebikes etc post them as well - it's all part of learning about what will and won't work. I had considered buying a written off beasty as well and turning that into a race bike. Thoughts?
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  #18  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 15:09
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Ray Ray is offline
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No ducati is going to be cheap to run as a race bike I suppose.

If it was me I would buy a damaged bike like the one I posted about a few says ago 998s for about 6k. having said that undamaged bikes are not a million miles way from that price.

I would go for the most powerful std engine I could afford and spend the cash on entry fees/ running costs. using a standard engine should keep the costs down. When I genuinely thought I needed some more power you would already be part way up the horse power tree by going for a testastretta lump in the first place.

Again a 998s should have 136hp before you start throwing money at it.

The cheapest way to get on the track NOW is to prep your road bike up. How likely is it that you will have a ball of scrap to take home after the race?? I know you have to be prepared for the worst but are there really gonna be a grid full of unhinged nutters in the old superbike class @ derby Phoenix meet, its not a CB500 race ya know!!!!

There are 1,000,001 things to factor in about the 3rd october. How well do ya know Donny? do you have a plan about transport if the worst comes to worst?

Ray
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  #19  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 15:22
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DSC Region Organiser skidlids skidlids is offline
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tp-996 you Could see Jim at Bike Enders about a damaged repairable, currently he has a fire damaged Cat C 916 on Ebay,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=24851023 18

or in a few days he may be able to offer a choice betwen a damaged repairable 996S or a 999 (model type unknown to him 5 minutes ago)
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  #20  
Old 20-Jul-2004, 16:16
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WeeJohnyB WeeJohnyB is offline
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I'm not going to try and go all 'I know better than you' here as it's all opinion and I've only been doing this racing lark for 5 mins, no malice intended whatsoever, but for what it's worth.....

Go along to a few race meetings and stand at the pit lane entry, ie where the truck comes in with the bikes in bits in the back, spot how many there are for MOST races, follow the van back to the paddock and look at the state of the bikes and then look at the faces of their riders/sponsors. Motorcycle racing is dangerous, loads of people crash every single weekend. I've yet to crash through my own rider error, unless you call not checking that an certain S4R had crappy Michelin tyres, or trusting poor quality second hand tyres, or having the wrong tyre pressures, hitting oil at circuit, or being knocked off by other riders. Point is, you cannot plan it.

Last weekend 7 riders went down in my race as some clown had 'wetter water' or whatever it's called in their radiator and it leaked and it's slippy and that was that. Even the best riders in the world on the best tyres and best suspension on the best grippy GP circuit go down....check this out from Sunday's MotoGP and imagine it's your first race on your shiney road bike with the sump lockwired and there you are the front bike and you think, 'woops going a bit wide here' or you're the guy behind and you think, 'it's my first race I'll just stay out of the way and follow some of the faster guys around'

http://images.motograndprix.com/flas...812.swf&vers=3

I wouldn't buy a damaged bike...what's wrong with it, do you really know, do you want to go flat out on it? It looks ok, but is the frame really straight, is the subframe ok, are there any stress points that are going to break as you pull the brake harder than you've ever done before, what are the forks like, yolks, is the shock bent blah bla......huge trust, potentially a huge amount of time to fix it and a potential money pit.

Or, buy a current race bike for £1500- £2000....there are loads of them for sale in MCN, Bemsee, New Era, Loot, Visordown and even here on DSC. You bin it, you throw it away, fix it or sell it. You keep it upright, you keep racing it cause it's fun, or you sell it for the same money you paid for it the following week., I've never been in one, but I've watched loads and they don't tend to deliberately elbow and push each other off the track like some of the CB5 guys are prepared to do...been there, done that, got the injuries, got the trophies.

In any case, would most road only riders buy a shiney Ducati with a lockwire all over it, or are you going to replace all the bits before you sell it again as a road bike.

Sound of Thunder is not a CB500 race for sure, but I've seen a lot of bent Ducatis in the paddock!

Weigh this up- carefully! But be aware that racing is as far away from track days as sledging is to doing the cresta run.

Whatever you decide, just do it

WeeJohnyB (crash hat at the ready)
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