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  #11  
Old 08-Jul-2005, 21:57
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Thanks for all the advice

So it seems the main difference between the FIM ECU & PC is the ignition adjustment & the FIM ones come with better maps so I'm told by Neil at sigma as they're set up on the dyno & tested on the bike

Does anyone know what ignition/timing adjustment involves and the benefit/effect of ignition/timing adjustment other than more power
(which is a good thing!!)

& do you need new maps if you change the gearing

Thanks
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  #12  
Old 09-Jul-2005, 11:42
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Anybody know??

FYI - If you buy the PC 111 usb via e bay looks like £150 - 195 and JHP will install and dyno (by the man himself!) for £175 +vat (3 hours labour plus 1 dyno run) - does it take 3 hours to install a PC?

so around £400 all in

The FIM ECU is £450 + vat (£528) from Sigma & Neil said you just plug it in but if you want to set it up on the dyno it will be another £50/100 I guess so £600 all in


So only £200 in it!! less than I thought
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  #13  
Old 09-Jul-2005, 12:01
Henners Henners is offline
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Chris - I got Crescent to fit a PC to my MV in April. They did about 30 dyno runs to get the fueling right as the PC has the ability to adjust the mixture in 250rpm steps. I would have though JHP would want to do far more than one run which would account for the cost. I paid Crescent £170 + VAT to fit and make a bespoke map.
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  #14  
Old 09-Jul-2005, 18:25
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Maybe the bloke I spoke to got it wrong..........

1 hr to fit

3hrs on the dyno!!

Maybe not

Price seems right though
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  #15  
Old 10-Jul-2005, 04:51
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Right you lot !!
Ive tinkered with the power commanders for some time now, and you need to make sure that you get the pc which has the single cylinder adjustment. This allows adjustment to commpensate for the differing operating temps of each unit (the rear cylinder runs hotter).
The maps you download from the dj web site are your starting point, but tend to make the bike run rich (safety), but you can adjust on a dyno to fine trim the map. I bought a data logger from the states which measures the air fuel ratio and rpm etc, over a 44 minute period, and this is then downloaded to your PC.
With this you can see where your bike is running correctly, and you cant do this on a dyno, as you cant assimilate road conditions.
Looking at your A/F ratio in your rev range allows you to then adjust the PC map accordingly, but not to go on the lean side.
The Lamda sensor fits right into the two plugs on the lower bends of the exhausts, and my data logger is the size of a multimeter, and can sit in a tank bag.

It also has a neat little clamp which can be fitted onto the exhaust outlet for use where a bike does not have the bungs, although I bought 4 weld in types for future bikes.

The rpm pick up clamp is quite small and simply clamps onto the HT lead.

All this for about 350 quid, including software.

The FIM eproms are the best on the market if you are going down this route, and are configured by doing road tests and dyno work on the actual model you have.
You can also tweak your duke by using a lighter flywheel, which will give a little more responsive feel when you spin her up on the throttle. However i would advise replacing the lock nut with the two individual ones you can buy online in the states.

I tweaked my 996 sps foggy rep with the above and it make a fair bit of difference to the bike.
Dont forget to take out the inline air filters too, and fit yourself an ITG filter, or similar.

You can now tweak your cam timing too, for a little more, but have this done by a trained operator John Hacket for eg.

If i can help you any further, just email me.
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  #16  
Old 10-Jul-2005, 10:04
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dickieducati dickieducati is offline
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chris, not sure if you have seen this before. its my dyno chart from jhp after having the pcIII fitted and set up correctly. i would guess yours could get a similar result to this: the lower line is prior to pcIII and set up.
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  #17  
Old 11-Jul-2005, 21:07
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Demon - thanks for the advice - do you know if changing gearing affects the fuelling??

Dickie - looks pretty tasty!!

Decisions, decisions...............
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  #18  
Old 11-Jul-2005, 23:01
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Mood: Has change happened...must of missed it!
In theory you could just upload Dickies map and you would be somewhere near. However, i know jhp puts something in to stop Dickie downloading his map, you copying it and up loading it.......I guess its all about protecting interests.

I wonder if they would just do this?????
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  #19  
Old 12-Jul-2005, 08:08
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Chef
Changing gearing does not change any of the fuelling parameters, it does however change where things take place.
Because your fuel Inj system has an rpm sensor within its monitoring equipment, it will tell the cpu how fast the engine is turning, and how much fuel to squirt in to the cylinders.

The amount of fuel squirted into the cylinders is also determined by signlas from the air press sensor and the TPS (throttle position sensor), and others.

Changing your gearing does this :-

Lets say you are riding along in 4th gear doing 50 mph, then your engine rpm may be 4000 rpm, all this done on standard gearing. (Figures are only theoretical)

If we go and drop a tooth on the front cog and travel along in the same gear, at the same speed, then the engine must turn faster to produce this speed (engine rpm will increase by approx 6% - if you need me to tell you how I get this figure let me know). This means that the engine will now turn at approx 4240 rpm.

Therefore the fuel injection system may be telling the injectors to squirt a different amount of fuel into the cylinders, than it would be on standard gearing. The amount of fuel it will squirt is taken from the fuel map (either the original eprom, or that from the power commander).
This basically means that you are operating your engine in a different rpm range.

It is possible to get a piggy back fuel injection controller which can adjust fuel ratios on the move, but these cost about 400 – 600 quid, and to be honest you don’t need them.

The FIM eproms tend to be the best aftermarket chips, as they have individual cylinder maps, thus compensating for the differing heat states of the cylinder (the rear cylinder runs slightly hotter than the from one, as it does not get the same air flow as the front one).

Ducati’s original chip brings the rear cylinder fuel quite lean at times, and this can be dangerous if a fault arises, it can destroy engine components, that’s why people change the chip, for aftermarket ones.

One other area which is quite a simple tuning mod is a lightened flywheel, but this does have an effect on engine performance. –

A lightened flywheel reduces the inertia exerted on the engine as it tries to spin up to a faster speed, but due to its increased momentum, keeps the engine at that rpm slightly longer when you close the throttle, before slowing down.

A lightened flywheel allows your engine to spin up faster, but also gives better response.
Due to the fact that you have lightened the flywheel, this reduces the amount of stored kinetic energy, and in the lower gears has the effect of “ reducing the mass of your bike” giving better acceleration.
You may not notice this when riding because bike clutches/flywheel assemblies are so small anyway, but it does happen.


There are other posts on this site regarding engine breaking effects of flywheels, but here’s what happens :-

Lets talk about the engine breaking produced by the cylinder firstly. This does not change, but is affected by the energy created/stored, and lost by the flywheel.
A heavier flywheel will pull engine rpm down quicker than a lighter one.
When you fit a lighter flywheel it “appears” that you have more engine breaking, but you simply take longer to lose the rpm of the engine, and thus the breaking forces remain longer.

Lightened flywheels require that you rev the engine a little harder to keep it at a certain rpm, or even to pull away from a stationary position.

I guess that’s it for now….any more questions ?
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  #20  
Old 12-Jul-2005, 22:51
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Demon

That's really interesting - thanks!!!

My bike has got a lightened flywheel/carbon airtubes & JHP filter & will shortly have the new FIM ecu assuming Motorapido come back with a good price!! incl setting it up on the Dyno

Watch this space & I'll tell you how I get on!!
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