Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > New regs for 2010

[badgerpilot]

Originally Posted by dunlop0_1

Never mind all this tech talk. MORE LAPS PER RACE PLEASE. 8 seems to be over so quickly or is that just me being a slow starter. LOL

Keep it as cheap and easy as possible.

8 laps seems to take me an eternity but I usually only get 7 because Shep laps me!
Now for the serious bit.
I'm very new to racing and this series but I've paid my money so I'll put my view out.
I chose to start racing in the DD class mainly because of the relitive low cost involved, I'm sure there are plenty of others who did the same. If people are talking of changing bikes then I for one will throw the towel in, it was hard enough convincing the other half that £1850 on a bike that gets ridden 20ish times a year was worth it. If changes are to be made to rules and regs I can cope with that, as long as it's still OK to ride last year's bikes.
I'm no petrol head, all this talk of ignitors, pistons and pick ups means Jack **** to me so any changes will be done by a garage at a cost, the difference between H and ZR rated tyres will be measured in £s not seconds by me. There are quite a few of us who do this racing purely for the enjoyment and crack, not necessarily points or shiny egg cups (got enough of them with plastic footballers and darts players on).
I'm never going to be breathing down Shep or Tim's necks at the front but I hope to be having a bloody good laugh scrapping for 12th with Kenny or Coxy (no offence guys) in a few season's time, as long as I can still turn out on my Badger. What I'm asking is that us budget riders (ie us who simply can't afford to spend 3 days at Pembrey) are considered in any rule ammendments.
Apologies for being uneducated and ignorant in the make up of our trusty steeds but I don't want my first season to also be my last.

[nelly]

Originally Posted by baconmaker72

8 laps seems to take me an eternity but I usually only get 7 because Shep laps me!
Now for the serious bit.
I'm very new to racing and this series but I've paid my money so I'll put my view out.
I chose to start racing in the DD class mainly because of the relitive low cost involved, I'm sure there are plenty of others who did the same. If people are talking of changing bikes then I for one will throw the towel in, it was hard enough convincing the other half that £1850 on a bike that gets ridden 20ish times a year was worth it. If changes are to be made to rules and regs I can cope with that, as long as it's still OK to ride last year's bikes.
I'm no petrol head, all this talk of ignitors, pistons and pick ups means Jack **** to me so any changes will be done by a garage at a cost, the difference between H and ZR rated tyres will be measured in £s not seconds by me. There are quite a few of us who do this racing purely for the enjoyment and crack, not necessarily points or shiny egg cups (got enough of them with plastic footballers and darts players on).
I'm never going to be breathing down Shep or Tim's necks at the front but I hope to be having a bloody good laugh scrapping for 12th with Kenny or Coxy (no offence guys) in a few season's time, as long as I can still turn out on my Badger. What I'm asking is that us budget riders (ie us who simply can't afford to spend 3 days at Pembrey) are considered in any rule ammendments.
Apologies for being uneducated and ignorant in the make up of our trusty steeds but I don't want my first season to also be my last.

and that's what it's all about.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by baconmaker72

8 laps seems to take me an eternity but I usually only get 7 because Shep laps me!
Now for the serious bit.
I'm very new to racing and this series but I've paid my money so I'll put my view out.
I chose to start racing in the DD class mainly because of the relitive low cost involved, I'm sure there are plenty of others who did the same. If people are talking of changing bikes then I for one will throw the towel in, it was hard enough convincing the other half that £1850 on a bike that gets ridden 20ish times a year was worth it. If changes are to be made to rules and regs I can cope with that, as long as it's still OK to ride last year's bikes.
I'm no petrol head, all this talk of ignitors, pistons and pick ups means Jack **** to me so any changes will be done by a garage at a cost, the difference between H and ZR rated tyres will be measured in £s not seconds by me. There are quite a few of us who do this racing purely for the enjoyment and crack, not necessarily points or shiny egg cups (got enough of them with plastic footballers and darts players on).
I'm never going to be breathing down Shep or Tim's necks at the front but I hope to be having a bloody good laugh scrapping for 12th with Kenny or Coxy (no offence guys) in a few season's time, as long as I can still turn out on my Badger. What I'm asking is that us budget riders (ie us who simply can't afford to spend 3 days at Pembrey) are considered in any rule ammendments.
Apologies for being uneducated and ignorant in the make up of our trusty steeds but I don't want my first season to also be my last.

I agree also, Chris Bushell saying they should be phased out by 2011. FFS they are still racing 50 year old Manx Nortons.

If I'm unfortunate enough to break a piston I will find a pair at 80mm diameter and hopefully the right height. As long as its flat on the top why should I have to pay Ducati prices. Who would know anyway.

All this talk of you can/can't do this or the other. Nothing is policed. The speeds of the bikes on the straight at Cadwell and Castle Combe were virtually identical. If you back off the throttle a little and another rider doesn't you will lose several yards.

So sensible rules open things up to get pattern parts if poss, brainstorm any changes before implementing and lets just have fun on the track.

[skidlids]

Originally Posted by Imola Duke

As per Skids post re pistons.

I looked into this and they were £300 for 2..
But I understand now you have to buy the cylinders ?

Mine after 2008 were well worn and scored and when measured were well
under tolerance.

JE pistons could be a option as they make 4 off to order.
and half the price

Steve I also had a good look around at the start of the season when riders were saying they were finding it hard to source pistons, there are a few Hi comp kits around like the FBF ones but that would give anyone using them an advantage.

I eventually came to the conclusion that we would need to find a company that would make replicas of the originals after all they do it for older Ducatis and other makes of bikes.
I ended up with a short list of companies that may be worth approaching and JE was one of them.

I was campaigning a 583 before class B existed partly to prove that you didn't need the exspense of 620s or 675cc bore kits to get out on the track and have fun.

I would hate to see class B die off which is why I think the rules on Pistons in Class B needs looking at so that an alternative source can be used without adding to riders costs and without changing the performance characteristics of the engine.

So if anybody has any contacts at companies that can make pistons I'm all ears.
I know Phil (Ghost) has been looking into it as I had a PM from him a while back asking after dimensions, trouble was I didn't have any 583 pistons about only 620 ones or the ones from Scooter916's old 675 kit

[dunlop0_1]

Originally Posted by baconmaker72

8 laps seems to take me an eternity but I usually only get 7 because Shep laps me!
Now for the serious bit.
I'm very new to racing and this series but I've paid my money so I'll put my view out.
I chose to start racing in the DD class mainly because of the relitive low cost involved, I'm sure there are plenty of others who did the same. If people are talking of changing bikes then I for one will throw the towel in, it was hard enough convincing the other half that £1850 on a bike that gets ridden 20ish times a year was worth it. If changes are to be made to rules and regs I can cope with that, as long as it's still OK to ride last year's bikes.
I'm no petrol head, all this talk of ignitors, pistons and pick ups means Jack **** to me so any changes will be done by a garage at a cost, the difference between H and ZR rated tyres will be measured in £s not seconds by me. There are quite a few of us who do this racing purely for the enjoyment and crack, not necessarily points or shiny egg cups (got enough of them with plastic footballers and darts players on).
I'm never going to be breathing down Shep or Tim's necks at the front but I hope to be having a bloody good laugh scrapping for 12th with Kenny or Coxy (no offence guys) in a few season's time, as long as I can still turn out on my Badger. What I'm asking is that us budget riders (ie us who simply can't afford to spend 3 days at Pembrey) are considered in any rule ammendments.
Apologies for being uneducated and ignorant in the make up of our trusty steeds but I don't want my first season to also be my last.

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head as they say.

[ChrisBushell]

To clarify my earlier comment, I was only suggesting ceasing with the 583 bikes if it became no longer viable to get parts for them. The point about Manx Nortons is valid - I race a 52 year old Ducati single! The difference with these bikes is that there is a parts and engineering network to allow us to re-build them - this is not yet properly in pace for these "new" bikes.

[injected]

Originally Posted by Ghost

FFS they are still racing 50 year old Manx Nortons.

Yes, but I was talking to one of the riders at Donington who had just spent £8k on an engine.... not quite DD budget methinks!

[Fastfasulli]

Originally Posted by skidlids

Steve I also had a good look around at the start of the season when riders were saying they were finding it hard to source pistons, there are a few Hi comp kits around like the FBF ones but that would give anyone using them an advantage.

I eventually came to the conclusion that we would need to find a company that would make replicas of the originals after all they do it for older Ducatis and other makes of bikes.
I ended up with a short list of companies that may be worth approaching and JE was one of them.

I was campaigning a 583 before class B existed partly to prove that you didn't need the exspense of 620s or 675cc bore kits to get out on the track and have fun.

I would hate to see class B die off which is why I think the rules on Pistons in Class B needs looking at so that an alternative source can be used without adding to riders costs and without changing the performance characteristics of the engine.

So if anybody has any contacts at companies that can make pistons I'm all ears.
I know Phil (Ghost) has been looking into it as I had a PM from him a while back asking after dimensions, trouble was I didn't have any 583 pistons about only 620 ones or the ones from Scooter916's old 675 kit

I have a piston if someone wants to measure it up. Unless i can do it for you

[steve41]

[quote=Ghost] Chris Bushell saying they should be phased out by 2011. FFS they are still racing 50 year old Manx Nortons.

I am new to the DD this year, but have been racing classics for the last 4/5 years. I went into that class on what they view as a budget bike, a Honda 350 K4. Price of a good standard bike, 4k, in a Drixton or TAB frame upwards of 6K. Parts for engines, head work, minimum of 1k a year running cost. To build a standard engine into a race one, 3k minimum. I ended up demanding more power to stay in the top 3, more and more expence.

As for Nortons, Matchless G50's, Aermacchi's don't go there. 2-3k a year for minimal work on the engines, complete replica bikes are 20K and upwards. Tyres are £140 for a rear only!!!! The top guys are changing them for every meeting.

This market is boyant as there are a number on engineering firms who have cornered the market for parts, engine and ignition, all are replica's of the original. As they have cornered the market, there prices reflect this!!!!!

My point is any older bikes can be run competatively, but they are expensive. Also there are continual problems with what is eligible and what is not.

To be fair to all, regs need to be in place early, and as a club stick together to try to get the best deal possible for parts and tyres. These then become the only replacements allowed for OEM parts, and hopefully a deal can be done to buys these at a discounted price for club members.

That keeps everyone out there to have fun

See you all at Pembrey and Cadwell.

[ChrisBushell]

[quote=steve41]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Chris Bushell saying they should be phased out by 2011. FFS they are still racing 50 year old Manx Nortons.

I am new to the DD this year, but have been racing classics for the last 4/5 years. I went into that class on what they view as a budget bike, a Honda 350 K4. Price of a good standard bike, 4k, in a Drixton or TAB frame upwards of 6K. Parts for engines, head work, minimum of 1k a year running cost. To build a standard engine into a race one, 3k minimum. I ended up demanding more power to stay in the top 3, more and more expence.

As for Nortons, Matchless G50's, Aermacchi's don't go there. 2-3k a year for minimal work on the engines, complete replica bikes are 20K and upwards. Tyres are £140 for a rear only!!!! The top guys are changing them for every meeting.

This market is boyant as there are a number on engineering firms who have cornered the market for parts, engine and ignition, all are replica's of the original. As they have cornered the market, there prices reflect this!!!!!

My point is any older bikes can be run competatively, but they are expensive. Also there are continual problems with what is eligible and what is not.

To be fair to all, regs need to be in place early, and as a club stick together to try to get the best deal possible for parts and tyres. These then become the only replacements allowed for OEM parts, and hopefully a deal can be done to buys these at a discounted price for club members.

That keeps everyone out there to have fun

See you all at Pembrey and Cadwell.

An interesting and thought provoking post. My old Ducati singles consume about £500 on a minor overhaul and £1K for a major one and that is just in std not racing form. The main thing is that I can get most of the parts from suppliers, most of whom are not in the UK.

If enough people wish to race the 583s then let them continue - but keep the rules on modifications tight, so that there is an element of cost control.