Ducati Sporting Club UK > Model Specific - Discussion, Technical Problems and Help > 998 / 996 / 916 / 748 > the old power debate

[deej]

after my mate borrowed and totalled a mates gsxr1000 at the weekend we had the usual pub debate over how much power/engine size a bike/we really need/use/cope with ................

i argued that we dont need anything more than a 750 il4 or a 996 v twin which most people agreed on. then it turned to wouldnt you like more power/top speed from your ducati which i would and i said i would probably just bore the engine out to 853 instead of finding a clean 996 to which they all laughed and said buy a 996. i argued that i can already corner much quicker than them and dont need the xtar power and why sell a bike with ohlins,single seat unit etc just for a bigger engine with less upgrades. then came suggestion of planting a 996 engine into the 748 frame

is it possible to just bolt a 996 engine into a 748 frame or is there more to it than just that, it could be fun seeing their faces when my little od slow 748 keeps up with them on the straights and then ****es all over them in the bends.

thoughts please ladies and gentlemen

or buy a 996 .. transfer the bling bits from the 748 onto it and then sell the 748 in more "standard" trim .....

What are we talking ?? single seat unit - 2 pins .... ohlins damper, rear shock and maybe forks ??

unless you are also running rearsets, slipper clutches and radial stuff then thats about it .....

also cornering quicker on the 748 is down to you as the rider, not down to the bike as they are as close to identical weight wise on a "like for like" spec as it gets ....

[electricsheep]

This doesn't answer your question, but it's interesting

the leaders in the British Supersport race would have finished in the points in the British Superbike Race at Brands even though they are down about 50 bhp

[Felix]

Other people will have more complete information, but I would have thought the engine certainly will bolt straight in. It's usually the ancillaries that get you into trouble. You will need an oil cooler, you'll need the 996 throttle body assembly and possibly the airbox. You'll need the ECU or at least the right chip if it uses the same ECU. There might be some wiring harness differences as well, certainly if you go for a SPS engine which has dual injectors and two engine pickups. That's for starters, but don't let that discourage you.

Skidlids will chime in in a minute.

[deej]

the arguement was over fitting a larger engine or upgrading to a 996 but i was more curious as to wether it was possible or not, cost effective and all that


as i said i can out ride any of the guys through my local cornish twisties and get a good gap with the v tiwn grunt but on a long stretch they just leave, i was flat out on sunday on a local bypass, no traffic and my mate on his r6 just went past with so much ease it was like i was parked up and i was doing 140 at the time, luckily theres always a bend at every end of straight, thats why i dont want lose the ohlins rear/damper and front susp

i cant afford to do any of it im more curious about whats possible and want to settle a debate


i like the point about the supersport riders being in the points on monday goes to show its the riders and not the bikes

[ericthered40]

Just my own view on this power thing?
160/170 horsepower in inexperienced hands equals your mates dead bike
More often than not ends up with Dead mate to!
Some riders get on the latest mental japs and slowly learn their way in to them, some crash.
Road bikes for the masses, just go and test ride one, Fu*k me ZX10 gonna get a few.
I think if you have been riding for a long time slowly building your own skills and progressing through different bike handling and horsepower and you still sh*t your pants when you light the torch on one of these latest missiles. You got to think about the newbi Billy Big Bo**xs giving it large on one.
Strait in at this level of horsepower Nooooo
I once watched a young testosterone filled matador gored and trampled by a Bull. It was a case of to much Bull to quickly. If he had lived he may have gone on to a Bull of that size but he defiantly was over powered that day Ek

[chris99]

If you want real power then chuck in a TL1000 motor:P














I'll get my coat

[DC]

Originally posted by chris99
If you want real power then chuck in a TL1000 motor:P















I'll get my coat

Now thats a point!! I suppose you would have a lot more modifications to deal with. The thing is, if you like the desmo engine then it would be a no no. Ducati purity and all that.

My 748 has been converted to an 853 by Sigma. I have to say that it is quite a little beast. What I would like to try is a 748R converted to an 853. I bet that is a missle?

DC.

[Harv748]

Well with regards to the engine fitting in the frame...my guess would be yes. As far as I'm aware the only frame that may be differrent is for the 748R...which has a larger airbox than any other 748/9** variants....so don't know if this means it has a slightly different shaped frame or not???

But you would need to think about why you are doing it. Unless you were a Skidlids or somebody who has a lot of contacts in the bike world and access to the bits needed...as well as the required *mechanical knowledge, premises, patience, funds (*delete as appropriate!) to sort something like that, you could in the long run find yourself with an expensive project, that lets face it, will then have naff all residual value.

I think dibs is right in that the way to go would be to find a bargain 996 etc and transplant the bling over to it from your great 748

As you know, I picked up probably bargain of the century with my 916SP...but with 130 BHP at the rear wheel...all the bling you'll ever need...for £5K...it has to be a better option than building your own special?

Now as for an 853 kit...well thats another discussion entirely

[TP]

Deej, I think you could get a bit carried away chasing horsepower. Having said that, I think it really depends on your riding. Take Jools for example. He has a similar amount of power and more than holds his own in the fast groups and on the rideouts.

If you don't have the latest Japanese missile, then your mate who does is always going to go past you on the straights. Unless you get a Desmosedici RR or a 999R and spend money on it then you are always going to be at a horsepower disadvantage. In my mind, you'd be much better off getting an 853 kit from someone like Sigma Check out the dyno charts on the Sigma website. Have a chat to DC, he's had it done.

Your biggest speed advantage is a nice strong midrange, with plenty of torque to fire out of corners with and your ohlins suspension. Anyone can go fast in a straight line.

[Edited on 30-3-2005 by TP]