Ducati Sporting Club UK
DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat
Discussions on the race series devised and supported by the DSC.
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 17-Jan-2011, 21:45
FoxCorp's Avatar
FoxCorp FoxCorp is offline
Registered Forum User
Montjuic
Bikes: Tuono Factory - DD #58
 
Posts: 62
Join Date: Apr 2010
I'm trying to keep up but I really haven't got a clue what's going on any more!
Quote+Reply
  #12  
Old 17-Jan-2011, 22:16
bradders's Avatar
bradders bradders is offline
Registered Forum User
MotoGP God
Bikes: 848, M620 DD bike
 
Posts: 11,913
Join Date: Aug 2003
Mood: waiting...
ha ha cost again!!!

I thought when its 3 races we have free practice, timed practice, qually race then 2 championship races

whats the new date for cadwell then?
Quote+Reply
  #13  
Old 17-Jan-2011, 22:16
dunlop0_1's Avatar
dunlop0_1 dunlop0_1 is offline
Registered Forum User
Big Twin
 
Posts: 1,568
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCorp
I'm trying to keep up but I really haven't got a clue what's going on any more!

Don't worry about it. Same for everyone.
Quote+Reply
  #14  
Old 17-Jan-2011, 22:18
bradders's Avatar
bradders bradders is offline
Registered Forum User
MotoGP God
Bikes: 848, M620 DD bike
 
Posts: 11,913
Join Date: Aug 2003
Mood: waiting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxCorp
I'm trying to keep up but I really haven't got a clue what's going on any more!

just enter and we'll see you on the grid...the only thing you need to know is 'go go go!'
Quote+Reply
  #15  
Old 17-Jan-2011, 22:21
Senna3's Avatar
Senna3 Senna3 is offline
Registered Forum User
500SD
 
Posts: 850
Join Date: Jan 2003
Mood: ready to race
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlop0_1
Don't worry about it. Same for everyone.


neil i thought you would have known about the tyres being a DUNLOP
Quote+Reply
  #16  
Old 17-Jan-2011, 22:31
Jolley's Avatar
Jolley Jolley is offline
Registered Forum User
Big Twin
Bikes: 959
 
Posts: 1,134
Join Date: Nov 2008
All as per Kev Ellis' e-mail. Only thing is tyres to be sorted, decision on Spa/Mallory, and clarification on how we are dealing with 3 race weekends.
Quote+Reply
  #17  
Old 18-Jan-2011, 00:24
skidlids's Avatar
DSC Region Organiser skidlids skidlids is offline
MotoGP God
 
Posts: 18,274
Join Date: Apr 2002
Mood: Its ONLY a Bike Club
I'm told Patience is a virtue

I've been busy on the phone and internet today trying to close out the last few remaining gray areas

Tyres is done and dusted, draft email written and once I have read through it again and added the last bit of the jigsaw I should be emailing it out tomorrow evening.
Spa-hoping on news from the organisers tomorrow, they now know we have enough riders saying they will do it to fill 1/3 of the grid, so lets hope the other groups can say the same.

As for the Qualifier race. I have read several posts on this, objections are in the minority but here is my view on it taking into account some of the points made in the postings

People that may benefit are those prepared to take the risks and if the people that normally push hard in a timed practice session don't want to take the risks in a qualifying race to get as far up the grid as they could then they may find a few different people in front of them on the grid at two of the meetings.

We can't have 3 point scoring races in one weekend as some people may want to miss that round for one reason or another and elect to drop the two races from their points scoring.

If both races on Saturday were point scoring what would that make Sunday's race, if its non championship then from the comments it looks like people won't take risks. So does that mean they wouldn't take part in it, or would they just go out and not take any risks which as mentioned isn't great racing.
By having the first of the 3 races as a qualifier it does make it part of the championship and therefore adds value to all 3 races. A race not linked to the championship offers little value

In normal quallifying many riders are out there with no idea how well they are doing and no idea where they are going to end up on the grid, sometimes having their best lap ruined by coming across someone going slower just where they didn't need to.

For many a timed practice/qualifying can be a lottery and at the end of it they have no idea where they qualified until they see the timing sheet

It's not a radical idea, other clubs have been doing it for years and even last year BSB adopted a system where the grid for the second race is based on what went on in race 1.
Other forms of international racing even reverse the front couple of rows for the second race based on the finishing order of the first race.

Thankfully NGRRC didn't make a bid (they haven't the space) for the DD series, with a timed practice, one qualifier race a day and one points race a day we would have had to turn down the offer dispite the excellent range of tracks they have to offer as many wouldn't have liked the format


Checkout the Desmo Due Paddock on Facebook
Quote+Reply
  #18  
Old 18-Jan-2011, 07:03
dunlop0_1's Avatar
dunlop0_1 dunlop0_1 is offline
Registered Forum User
Big Twin
 
Posts: 1,568
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna3
neil i thought you would have known about the tyres being a DUNLOP

New user name then,
"super soft and sticky feckin fast even in the wet H rated"
Quote+Reply
  #19  
Old 18-Jan-2011, 09:32
Jolley's Avatar
Jolley Jolley is offline
Registered Forum User
Big Twin
Bikes: 959
 
Posts: 1,134
Join Date: Nov 2008
One point at a Time:
1)As for the Qualifier race. I have read several posts on this, objections are in the minority but here is my view on it taking into account some of the points made in the postings
- How about a vote? Am I a minority?

2)People that may benefit are those prepared to take the risks and if the people that normally push hard in a timed practice session don't want to take the risks in a qualifying race to get as far up the grid as they could then they may find a few different people in front of them on the grid at two of the meetings.
- Those pushing hard (or those that are quick) in a timed round will generally go just as well in the race. It is more about not wanting to damage your championship races by making sure you finish. I see this as ruining the first (qualifying race) as you will have less overtaking because people want to make it to the end. If the following grids were based upon fastest laps from the race it might be a little fairer on anyone that has an off or a mechanical problem (how unfair would it be if someone came off in front of you that you couldn't avoid and you got a DNF?).

3) We can't have 3 point scoring races in one weekend as some people may want to miss that round for one reason or another and elect to drop the two races from their points scoring.
- So, leave it as just a race (the non-points scoring races last year were still fun), or compromise by making qualifying on best lap times from that race. If someone thinks they are going to make up a lot of places in a race then their laps will be faster (have better lap times) and still improve their qualifying.... but at least if they couldn't finish the race their weekend wouldn't be ruined.

4) If both races on Saturday were point scoring what would that make Sunday's race, if its non championship then from the comments it looks like people won't take risks. So does that mean they wouldn't take part in it, or would they just go out and not take any risks which as mentioned isn't great racing.
By having the first of the 3 races as a qualifier it does make it part of the championship and therefore adds value to all 3 races. A race not linked to the championship offers little value
- I agree the championship races should be last. Are you saying that if the first race is non-championship that we won't be racing eachother though?.... come on!! As soon as the lights go out we are trying to prove a point..... unless of course we are worried about the fact we HAVE to finish.

5) In normal quallifying many riders are out there with no idea how well they are doing and no idea where they are going to end up on the grid, sometimes having their best lap ruined by coming across someone going slower just where they didn't need to.
- Seriously, we all have some idea (within about 4 places) where we are going to come. Even if your best lap is compromised, your second best lap will put you within a place or two of where you would have been.... but someone falling at a hairpin in front of you and taking you out in a Qualifying race would put you at the back. I think it will punish more than it rewards.... and the punishment would be about 20 more places than any reward.

6)It's not a radical idea, other clubs have been doing it for years and even last year BSB adopted a system where the grid for the second race is based on what went on in race 1.
Other forms of international racing even reverse the front couple of rows for the second race based on the finishing order of the first race.
- But we are not using a championship race to determine a championship grid, we are using a non-championship race to determine a championship grid. If a championship race is determining the grid the reward for risk taking is two-fold, being both better points in that race and a better start to the next. We can only really lose. I would be interested to see who made up the most places in any single race last year. I would be surprised if anyone made up more than 7 places from grid position to finish position last year (on average Alan and Matt Lawson probably had the best record for consistently improving, even then it was normally only by a place or two), but plenty would have lost 15+ places from not finishing.

7) Thankfully NGRRC didn't make a bid (they haven't the space) for the DD series, with a timed practice, one qualifier race a day and one points race a day we would have had to turn down the offer dispite the excellent range of tracks they have to offer as many wouldn't have liked the format.
- I think you have done a sterling job and agreed a top format in terms of the sessions and the track time and the tracks and the price. I'm not taking anything away from that. Everything is just about perfect. I just hate this for all of the reasons stated above.

Maybe a vote on the 2-day/3-race format:
1) 1st race is non-championship, all 3 grids from Qualifying.
2) 1st Race is a Qualifying race to determine grids from finishing position.
3) 1st Race is a Qualifying race to determine grids from best lap.

If I lose the vote I will go with whichever the majority choose.
Quote+Reply
  #20  
Old 18-Jan-2011, 11:02
DSC Member numbskull numbskull is offline
DSC Club Member
Mille
Bikes: 848 Evo ‘Pikes Peak’, 748S, 200 Single
 
Posts: 314
Join Date: Jun 2009
I've found something to agree with Ron on!!

Either the first race should be non championship, or it should be qualifying from fastest lap. NOT from finishing position.

But then I guess i'm in the minority here.
Quote+Reply
Reply
  
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Postbit Selector
Switch to Vertical postbit Use Vertical Postbit

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Recent Posts - Contact Us - DSC Home - Archive - Top
Powered by vBulletin 3.5.4 - Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. - © Ducati Sporting Club UK - All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:08.