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  #11  
Old 05-Mar-2006, 19:59
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I think the gallery plug is aluminuim which isn't magnetic.
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  #12  
Old 05-Mar-2006, 23:19
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rockers ? looks like it a bit>

thanks for all of your help... if someone would confirm the point on the galley plug (aluminium = non magnetic or steel = magnetic ?) That would be fantastic!

Attach is a picture of the oil pick up filter. You should be able to see in the top corner of the gauze a small piece of chrome flake.

This appears to be the only "large" flake in gauze of the pick up. When I cleaned the pick up, there where trace elements (less than 1mm in diameter) , but nothing to panic?. Might sound a bit dum but

I guess this could be the early stages of a rocker failure, or could this be normal wear?

I guess my cheapest option but with a hint of danger is for the next 500 miles, filter the oil out of the engine and look for further signs of chrome flaking or "weird" flakes of metal?
Then in the next 500 miles take it in for an early 12k service pending how much money I can save up till them?
:P
j
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  #13  
Old 06-Mar-2006, 00:17
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I believe that original gallery plugs are aluminium but they can be replaced with a steel one. I don't think the steel ones are known to back out so if the bit of whatever in your first pic is magnetic then its not the crank plug.
I suspect is alternator or gearbox related.

The only way to find out if you have a rocker problem is to take the cams out and then take each rocker out.

Like i've said many times before, rocker removal is not part of the official ducati service schedule. People like Neil at Cornerspped however do take them out and check them.
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  #14  
Old 06-Mar-2006, 00:50
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The gauze filter will catch any alloy particles washing around in the oil, as well as chrome.
The particles that end up in the oil filter itself will out number these...........

I understand how people worry about the rocker problems, and the recent storys of crank gallery plugs backing out, but the ONLY way you can check these is by inspection, not by second guessing the origin of bits in the gauze or stuck to the sump plug.
These could have been there since the first oil change unless the plug and filter were thoroughly cleaned.
They can give an indicator that inspection may be necessary, but no more. Every missed gear change or clumsy down shift will shave a slither of a gearbox dog..............it doesn't mean the 'box is shot.
I wouldn't have thought you've anything to worry about from either of the photos.

Clean the plug and gauze filter, refill with oil and ride her. Enjoy it.
When it's due a service, mention the fines to the workshop and ask them to take a look. Rockers are easy enough, the plug needs a cylinder pulling.
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  #15  
Old 06-Mar-2006, 10:54
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thanks nelly

Too true. Dont second guess, as it can cost you more in the long run. Its too easy to get caught up in the negative press of these machines when the positives out weigh them easliy.

I bought the bike to enjoy it, and thats what i am doing ridiing it or servicing it.

Thanks for all involved for your help, really appreciated.

j
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  #16  
Old 06-Mar-2006, 19:45
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DSC Member Shazaam! Shazaam! is offline
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Ducati engines are equiped with two oil filters. A screen to trap larger particles and a filter cartidge to trap the smaller debris. Every 2,000 - 3,000 miles the oil should be changed, the filter replaced, and the screen cleaned.

It’s very important that screen be removed and inspected for debris at each oil change. Some dealers don't do it, explaining that the blockage to flow is small - so don’t worry. Even if it is done, the early warning signs from particles on the screen are often ignored. The most common rationale being that the filter screen captures particles of aluminum remaining from the machining process, so seeing them shouldn’t necessarily be cause for alarm. At your first oil change this argument has merit, but if you see particles at subsequent changes you should investigat further.

As most of you know by now, there are two problems common to Ducatis that can be identified by, and diagnosed by the particles they deposit on the filter screen.

The first problem is a design flaw in the pre-2000 model-year bikes that have an aluminum crankshaft oil gallery plug that can loosen and back-out. In doing so, the rotation of the crankshaft will machine the plug down until the plug eventually comes out and the engine experiences a catastrophic loss of oil pressure that destroys the main bearings (among other things.) The aluminum particles will end-up on the filter screen.

The second problem is the design problem with the chrome plating flaking-off the cam-contacting surface of the rocker arms. The best way to know if you have rocker problems is to pull the cams and look, but your dealer won't do this unless you authorize an additional labor charge. Chrome particles on the filter screen will give you a good reason to spend the money to have them do this.

Chrome and aluminum are non-magnetic so they don’t attach themselves to the magnet on the drain plug. So how do you tell if you have chrome or aluminum particles on your filter screen? Here’s a simple test.

Draw a small amount of battery acid and put the particles in it. Battery acid is dilute sulfuric acid, so when you add chromium to it you’ll get a release of hydrogen bubbles and the chromium will turn the darker violet color of chromium sulfate. Aluminum doesn’t react this way.

For you chemistry majors:

2Cr + 3H2SO4 > Cr2 [SO4]3 + 3H2


So, if you do it, you get to see the early warning signs of transmission damage or the crank oil gallery plug backing out.
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  #17  
Old 06-Mar-2006, 19:49
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sounds like just some slithers of metal off the gears! nowt to worry about
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  #18  
Old 12-Mar-2006, 19:15
DSC Member toecutter toecutter is offline
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James

My 996S has produced several small "wire" pieces over many oil changes.
Pull out the rocker spindles with an M4?? screw and spacer, with the relevant valve closed to remove load, and examine the rocker return springs. If, like mine did, the spindles have been rotating in the head, the internal shoulder wears the first coil of the spring, and the heat generated may cause a small sliver of the hardened skin to break off. As a preliminery, check the inner surface of the small central rocker spindle cover, held on with 4 screws; spindle rotation causes annular wear on this surface, which should be completely smooth, in my case to a depth of 2mm. IMO, the outward extension of these spindles reduces the rigidity of the rocker support, and may lead to tilting of the rocker relative to the cam lobe, so that in use the chrome pad experiences the full force of the lobe from the sharp edge of the lobe, concentrated on a very small area, and thus leading to premature chrome pad failure. . . . just a theory, but perhaps worth checking out. In the fullness of time, I expect to have to modify the face of the spindles and make a "star" washer to hold all 4 still to prevent rotation, but for now I have just replaced the damaged springs and covers, in addition to all 16 rockers, to restore lateral spindle motion to desgn values.

Good Luck!
julian
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