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  #21  
Old 02-Mar-2012, 02:38 PM
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Cobbett Cobbett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS
Somoene will no doubt prove me wrong, but as far as I can see, Ducati are back in their regular position, when you remove the Stoner factor - with the exception of 2006 when Loris did well on the 990, the Desmosedici has never been a consitently front-running bike. And to be fair - plenty of 2006/2007 was down to a non-level playing field when Ducati took the bold step of going to Bridgestone - I seem to recall in 2006 Loris was either unstoppable (Brno) or nowhere (Estoril). Ducati had acknowledged that they wouldn't beat the Japanese on the same tyres so were happy to go down a different route, knowing in some places they would be more competitive, and in some places, less competitive. Now they are all on the same tyres and there is no Stoner...

I totally agree with that. Stoner's talent masked the historic ordinariness of the factory bike. Alas I think Rossi has only now realised this; he clearly thought the base package was less of a mess than it's proved.
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  #22  
Old 02-Mar-2012, 02:45 PM
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DSC Member antonye antonye is offline
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Question

So are we now saying that Rossi isn't as good as we all thought he was?


I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather,
than screaming in terror like his passengers.- Jim Harkins

Ducati 748S | Ducati Hypermotard 1100S | 600-620SS DesmoDue Racebike #111 <-- Sold!! | Avanti Race Parts
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  #23  
Old 02-Mar-2012, 03:04 PM
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DSC Member MJS MJS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antonye
So are we now saying that Rossi isn't as good as we all thought he was?

I'm not saying that - I'm just saying that Stoner is better than we all gave him credit for
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  #24  
Old 02-Mar-2012, 06:01 PM
DSC Member numbskull numbskull is offline
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I think Ducati are worse than we thought!!

But i'm still buying one.
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  #25  
Old 02-Mar-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull
I think Ducati are worse than we thought!!

But i'm still buying one.

Not in the Superbike world, before they joined in with Moto GP things like this never got discussed. More chat about the outcome of Moto GP testing then there was of Carlos Checas WSBk Crash and Win and thats on an old bike wcarrying an extra 6kg this year. Then again in WSBk they have stuck with a tried and tesed formula of 90 degree V-twin engine with Belt drive cams housed in a Steel Trellis frame, where as in Moto GP they were keep trying to break new ground


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  #26  
Old 02-Mar-2012, 08:31 PM
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DSC Member antonye antonye is offline
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...talking of Checa, the DSC just had a namecheck off him on Twitter


I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather,
than screaming in terror like his passengers.- Jim Harkins

Ducati 748S | Ducati Hypermotard 1100S | 600-620SS DesmoDue Racebike #111 <-- Sold!! | Avanti Race Parts
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  #27  
Old 02-Mar-2012, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antonye
So are we now saying that Rossi isn't as good as we all thought he was?

I worship the guy so I'm not very objective. But it seems to me an unfortunate collision of circumstances: he's a rider whose principal asset is supernaturally late-braking, relying enormously on front-end feel, getting on a bike whose front end is notorious - evinced both by Stoner's high number of crashes and his successive teammates' trials with it. And he climbed onto a bike which needs to be ridden on the edge to be competitive, not long after the worst accident of his career, which might have made him subconsciously a little less prepared to ride on the edge than in yesteryear.

It is incredible to think that a machine which won those 3 races at the end of 2010 was made to look so dysfunctional a few months later. And some of VR's and Burgess's claims - that CS was a poor development rider, and that they could sort its problems pretty easily - have come back to haunt them. So, yes, 9 world titles aren't easily belittled, but as MJS says, few realised just how good CS was.

Personally I'm convinced - on the basis of his pace in testing at the start of 2010 (fastest in 5 of 6 sessions from memory), and on the basis of his win (Sepang) and podiums after injury in late 2010, that if VR was still/back on the Yamaha, he'd be right at the sharp end. That makes the bike, or certainly the rider/bike combo, the problem.

Of course what Kev says about WSB is right. If I ran Ducati (ha!), standing back and looking at Ducati's relative lack of success in GPs, and esp in the current climate, I'd pull out and concentrate on sustaining the WSB hegemony.

(And if you're a Rossi fan I guess you hope that in the shuffle at the end of this season he gets back on a Honda or a Yamaha, though it's hard to see. And say...)
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