Ducati Sporting Club UK > Model Specific - Discussion, Technical Problems and Help > 1198 / 1098 / 848 > GSXR K6 vs 1098 Dyno.. Let the games begin!

[Simon Reed]

loads stu !!,thats the trouble,why hasn't the cc limit been raised for all the manufacturers eh ???,as we have said before,Ducati don't need to increase the capacity in order to gain results,as its winning around the world,its supposed to be a level playing field,ain't it!

I've read somewhere ,that jhp,has got a £175k budget,for superstock,for next year,why is that?,i thought the bigger capacity was to reduce engine rebuilds/costs,surely,or,is it going to be that illegal,it needs the re-builds !!!

Ah well,it'll soon be april !

[chris.p]

Originally Posted by dave w

Where do you want me to start....

PVM mag 20 spoke wheels

PVM 320 narrow band full floating discs

Brembo mono bloc's with Ti pistons

Ohlins fork internals

Yoshi works rearsets

matrix mr4 damper

PC3 with works airbox mod as per BSB

moto GP clip ons

moto GP front mudguard

Yoshi headers

Race-fit 60mm half system

BSB works filler cap

Quick action throttle

Tint screen and headlight cover

carbon rear hugger

Pazzo works levers

£800 of Ti bolts !!!!

brake lines

carbon crankcase protectors

BSB crash protectors

R&G front and rear fork protectors

rear wavey disc

Loads of hours on the dyno !!!

Cheeky question, but how much did that cost on top of the original price of the bike,???



Chris

[gasmanrus]

looking at the dyno sheets, never mind the h.p. look at the torque

STOMP STOMP STOMP.....its the torque that matters......

[twpd]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

not the bike for Hartside Nige, 12,500 rpm!! red line, way too short from bar to seat , arse in air hands tipped too far forward and if you try and slide back you end up even higher up. need to ride one but from sitting on it its just too track focused for me and the roads i ride up here , I'm looking forward to getting a demo to try though

Indeed. My 748 is a real handful on that road....<slap> <slap> <slap> <slap> <slap>

It's a 2vlv road

[twpd]

Originally Posted by Simon Reed

loads stu !!,thats the trouble,why hasn't the cc limit been raised for all the manufacturers eh ???,as we have said before,Ducati don't need to increase the capacity in order to gain results,as its winning around the world,its supposed to be a level playing field,ain't it!

I've read somewhere ,that jhp,has got a £175k budget,for superstock,for next year,why is that?,i thought the bigger capacity was to reduce engine rebuilds/costs,surely,or,is it going to be that illegal,it needs the re-builds !!!

Ah well,it'll soon be april !

Because it's not a level playing field for a twin. I don't see how this is so hard for people to understand. cc for cc a twin cannot compete with a 4 and the reason for this is that the 4 has more valve area - it is valve area that largely dictates how much power is produced. 4 small high-revving pots will give more power than two large lower-revving pots.

The easiest way to get more power out of a 4-stroke is to increase the valve area i.e the bore and the size of the valves, and shorten the stroke to allow it to rev harder. This is why 4 cylinder bikes make more power per litre than twins.

It's quite amazing that Ducati can compete as they do with the 999 but it costs them a fortune in engines because they don't last long. They want to go to the bigger motor to save money and have restrictions placed upon them re. the amount of tuning they are allowed to do. I get tired of people saying Ducati cheat - they don't. They work within the rules which, have been agreed by all the factories including the Japanese factories. A well-known Yamaha race engineer once said that if the rules were properly applied then the 4's would be restricted to 738cc whilst the twins were at 1000. I will try to find the reference.

[Martin Ducati Glasgow]

Originally Posted by twpd

Because it's not a level playing field for a twin. I don't see how this is so hard for people to understand. cc for cc a twin cannot compete with a 4 and the reason for this is that the 4 has more valve area - it is valve area that largely dictates how much power is produced. 4 small high-revving pots will give more power than two large lower-revving pots.

The easiest way to get more power out of a 4-stroke is to increase the valve area i.e the bore and the size of the valves, and shorten the stroke to allow it to rev harder. This is why 4 cylinder bikes make more power per litre than twins.

It's quite amazing that Ducati can compete as they do with the 999 but it costs them a fortune in engines because they don't last long. They want to go to the bigger motor to save money and have restrictions placed upon them re. the amount of tuning they are allowed to do. I get tired of people saying Ducati cheat - they don't. They work within the rules which, have been agreed by all the factories including the Japanese factories. A well-known Yamaha race engineer once said that if the rules were properly applied then the 4's would be restricted to 738cc whilst the twins were at 1000. I will try to find the reference.

Well said that man!!

[Monty]

Actually Nigel it is piston area and ratio of piston area to stroke that really determines the power output-because piston SPEED is the real limiting factor-valve area is just a small part of that. You are correct though, small cylinders with short stroke can rev higher and therefore flow more gas for a given piston speed-that is why Ducati has been shortening stroke and increasing bore to get more revs and therefore power whilst not exceeding the limits of piston speed. The problem with that is that there is a limit to how big the bore can go before you start to get the gasflow stalling and therefore again limiting the cylinder filling.
The actual ratio is I believe 1:.736 for a twin versus a 4 in terms of thermodynamic efficiency-in other words a 736cc 4 verses a 1000cc twin-so under the old original Superbike rules the 4 cylinder bikes already had an advantage-the twins should have been allowed to be 1019cc to keep it strictly fair. So with 1000cc 4's the twins should be allowed 1358.7cc!

Nigel just re-read your post and noticed your reference-seems we have read the same work although I am sure it was a Honda engineer-pretty much the same result though. It always hacks me off as well the way that some people keep banging on about Ducati cheating because they have a bigger engine-the same voices will no doubt call it cheating if Ducati decides to race the Desmosedici in Superbike-I have been told they won't but personally wish they would just to shut certain sections up.

John

[dave w]

Originally Posted by Simon Reed

i take it thats on Crescents dyno then?,bearing in mind you're in poole !,nuff said !

looks well though,you had any cush drive problems with them pvm's ?,i've had 4 sets in mine on the R1 !,in 18 mth!

Spot on with the dyno work !! as for the PVM's no prob's so far.. i am running the race cush drive unit and not the road version..

[banoffee]

I have a 1000K5 and am tempted with 1098S...

[dave w]

Originally Posted by chris.p

Cheeky question, but how much did that cost on top of the original price of the bike,???



Chris

Dont even what to think about it !!! But i think its around 17k mark including the bike... sounds mad i know..But its so well sorted and would blow my old 999r into the weeds in all areas... after owning a 999r that cost 21k that spent most of the time in bits in a workshop !!! or not running very well !! 3 oil leaks..poor finish..breaking down etc kind of puts you off... But it did look stunning !!!!!!lets hope they got it right with the 1098 !!!!time will tell.