Ducati Sporting Club UK > Sport > Trackdays & Race Schools > California Superbike School

[twpd]

I still won't have your children Steve!

[andyb]

I wonder if we could have a section based on learning to ride.

I look at some pictures people have posted or their avantars of themselves riding, and think to my self that looks good, or your body is wrong there and so on.


Im sure the old story of if it looks right it is............

So how about a riding surgery?

start with me if you like?

[fil2]

Originally posted by twpd
I'm always analysing my riding on the track.

I will watch and learn where he goes faster...where he gets more speed from..be it a different line, a later turn-in, later braking point, fewer gear changes etc. Even mid-race I've picked up pointers from others and found that little bit extra when I needed it.

The fact that he beats me, has faster times etc means that there is something to be learnt because the whole point of track-riding or racing is to be the fastest.

How will I get this from an instructor who may have never raced or may not be a particularly good racer with a good track record?

makes sense to me

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by andyb


start with me if you like?

you're fat and slow.

next ?

[Chris Wood]

Originally posted by twpd

I know this. I'm a qualified bike instructor and used to work as a technical trainer for a large american corporation in microelectronics.

Is this not an opposite position to your earlier quote, 'how can a non racer make me quicker?'

A coach's role is to help you identify and articulate how to maximise your inate talent and abilty, at whatever level, to improve your performance.

Tiger Woods is highly relevant, he is constantly striving to improve his performance. Regardless of your staring point, this is the goal of improvement, the basic premise is still the same.

Yes we all apply our level of skill, knowledge and behaviour differently to achieve the same results.

[andyb]

Originally posted by weeksy2

you're fat and slow.

next ?

Now tootle off and do some laps without braking!

[Edited on 24-5-2006 by andyb]

[TP]

Originally posted by twpd

Ahhh...so you'll subscribe to the school of thought that allows "textbook engineers" to come out of university with a degree, call themselves engineers and then have the real engineers pick up the pieces behind them?


It's a bit like IT bods with MCSEs thinking they know it all.

You plonker! As someone who has had two MCSE's (NT4.0 and Win2k) I can certainly tell you when I'm hiring people I look for experience and initiative, not 'industry certification'! Having an MCSE just means a recruiter will put your name forward for a role where he wouldn't if you didn't have it. That's the only benefit!

So Tony - you're a coach. Teach me to go fast then. :P

You might not believe it, and I know there are people on this thread who don't ... but I honestly believe I can make you faster.

To bring Tiger Woods into it is missing the point entirely. He already has an inate ability that cannot be taught - merely harnessed, re-directed etc. We're talking about ordinary mortals instead.

But it is relevant - it explains the coach/student relationship and that the coach themselves don't necessarily need to be high achievers themselves to be able to help the student become that. If that makes sense ....

Too many posts in this thread to keep up!

One more post to come ...

[weeksy2]

I do believe you Tony.... but i also believe Skids could make me faster, so could Phil and so could TWPD.....

knowledge and experience....

[couchcommando]

Originally posted by andyb
I wonder if we could have a section based on learning to ride.

I look at some pictures people have posted or their avantars of themselves riding, and think to my self that looks good, or your body is wrong there and so on.


Im sure the old story of if it looks right it is............

So how about a riding surgery?

start with me if you like?

Different people ride with a different style, there is no set way to ride or position to be in, which brings me back to my original question regarding do css teach you one way and is that way the same regardless of your style or the type of bike you ride or is it tailored to you ?

[TP]

I've just gotten off the phone to Johnny Haynes. Andy Ibbott is busy at the moment and doesn't have the time to review and post ... but, Johnny forwarded me an e-mail that he sent me (to my old work account, I forgot to update my e-mail address details) when the thread about me passing and becoming a coach was being debated. He asked me to paste it in so here goes ...

Originally dribbled by Johnny Haynes, Chief Riding Coach of the CSS and all round ****taker of all things Ducati

Tony

I have just read through the thread on the DCS board about you passing your exams to become a qualified coach and I found it fascinating!
I was surprised how much opinion varied about riding and training and of course about CSS itself. Some of the participants seem to have a really good handle on what the school, and training in general, is all about and some seem to be guessing so I thought I would offer my opinion on some of the points myself - if you think it suitable could you post it on my behalf as I am not a member?

Pace of learning - Although we do teach the same techniques to novices and world champions alike we teach them in different ways and with different levels of application. I personally match students to coaches to make sure a guy with 3 years racing experience gets a coach who understands his needs. That student may not need 20 minutes practicing rolling on through a turn, but equally he may not fully understand the finite subtleties of good throttle control, and with help and practice he may develop a much better feel for EXACTLY when he should open the gas in a turn, ultimately finding himself 0.1 seconds in every turn and a total of over 1 second per lap. I have been coaching this stuff at every school CSS Europe has hosted in the last 9 years and even now, every time I take a lap to myself and try to go fast, I still think about my throttle control, about where to turn, about making sure I am relaxed… all level 1 stuff.

What makes a good coach - As the guy who trains all CSS coaches I guess I have more experience than most on this subject. I think it is fair to say that CSS coaches are well respected and as such I do a pretty good job, so I hope my opinion is worth something to you. The first shocking statement I will make is that riding skill is not the most important element of being a CSS coach. Obviously any applicant has to ride well, but more important is the desire to be 100% commited to the job, the depth of understanding that only commited guys can achieve, the ability to communicate this clearly and concisely, a genuine desire to help every student, a good work ethic, the ability to be able to accept 'input' from other coaches and staff and act on it positively and finally an absolute passion for doing this! There is not one coach on the staff who is there for free track time, or for the money etc, they are all there because they have a genuine desire to help every rider they meet.

Experience v Knowledge - There were some really good points made on this subject and I don't think I have much to add but I will share my own personal experience on this subject: When I first met Andy Ibbott in 1995/6 I was a racer, and having won at my first meeting and set a lap record at my second, I was a cocky racer! I remember sitting in his front room discussing the school, which was embryonic then, and said "Nah, I don't really think the school can teach me anything" That quote still haunts me now! Despite being in research for my job, I had no real idea of how I went fast and in retrospect, no idea of how I could go faster, but I didn't realise then - I just needed stickier tyres, better suspension and more power….
When I finally did the Level 1 at the school in '97 I was blown away - It didn't show me anything I didn't already do, but it explained why and how I did it and allowed me to understand how I could change it to make it better. It was this knowledge that allowed me to look at myself and ultimately at other riders and be able to help them too, not the experience I had from my previous 15 years of riding.

The 'grilling' exam is designed to make sure any potential coaches have a deep understanding of this 'knowledge' and that they know how it all connects together, it is a much deeper understanding than we expect of any student, and this is the primary tool for being able to successfully coach any rider - even one much faster than us.

Weeksy - I have seen and heard of the many arguments that Weeksy has caused and been involved with over the last year or so and I feel for him! I do not want to jump in and start having a pop at him, in fact I would like to sit down with a few beers and get to know him as I am sure we could have some interesting conversations! I do agree that the school is not for him... but lets be honest, it is not for everybody.

If you reach a point In your riding where you are stuck, or your rate of improvement is not enough and you decide you WANT help, then training is the way to go. Until you want it there is no point.

We have seen racers pushed into doing the course by their manager, sons by their fathers, friends paying for other friends etc. In all these cases there is less percieved value to the course, less desire to try hard to gain a benefit, less interest in general, and as a result there is less benefit to them. In all these cases I would advise against booking in the first place!

General - I too would like to congratulate TP as he moved heaven and earth to make it to Rockingham on Tuesday and despite some hiccups on the day he maintained his composure and proved his worthiness - well done mate!
As for the general level of discussion I am impressed and will try to look in on it more often - despite the association with Ducati…

Cheers guys.
Johnny

[Edited on 24-5-2006 by TP]