Ducati Sporting Club UK > Model Specific - Discussion, Technical Problems and Help > 999 / 749 > head angle

[Glyn]

anyone tried changing the steering head angle
most people ive spoken too have advised me to leave it alone as it is not really suited to the road

what are the results like
are there other adjustments needed

[duc daz]

hi mate mine has been changed so has pedro,s mine steers quicker ..

[doogalman]

Done it on my 996, turned a lot quicker in corners. Felt unstable in very slow corners. Had a tendancy to shake its head a bit on hard gassing away from turns.
Worth a try. Just to be able to make a comparison.
Can't comment on 749/999 series.

[andyb]

I wouldnt bother! You can achieve a more than suitable set up with the std angle, lowering the yolks on the forks, and raising the rear........and then not worry about clearance.........

[Glyn]

thanx for the replys
doogalman thats what i'm worried about
duc daz any other suspension mods to make it liveable with
andyb i'm a bit bothered about putting to much weight on the bars if i go down that road, i'm used to a nice upright position after the st and i know already that i'm loading the bars a bit

[Jools]

Originally Posted by Glyn

thanx for the replys
doogalman thats what i'm worried about
duc daz any other suspension mods to make it liveable with
andyb i'm a bit bothered about putting to much weight on the bars if i go down that road, i'm used to a nice upright position after the st and i know already that i'm loading the bars a bit

You might want to give it a bit more time and learn how to ride the bloody thing first

Seriously, you know that it took me a good few months to learn how to ride the 888 anywhere near properly after the ST. After the ST with it's big wide bars and jacked up ride height which helped it turn more quickly, it took me a good old while to get the confidence together to give the bars a good old push to countersteer...I was worried that I would overdo the countersteering and end up washing the front out.

But, after the ST I've discovered that the 888 is just a bike that loves to be bossed about. If you go at it with caution it won't respond, if you take it by it's scruff and make it do what you want it loves it. The harder you ride the better it gets.

I think that the 749 won't be quite so raw as a T8, but it'll still take more bossing than an ST.

[Glyn]

Originally Posted by Jools

You might want to give it a bit more time and learn how to ride the bloody thing first

Seriously, you know that it took me a good few months to learn how to ride the 888 anywhere near properly after the ST. After the ST with it's big wide bars and jacked up ride height which helped it turn more quickly, it took me a good old while to get the confidence together to give the bars a good old push to countersteer...I was worried that I would overdo the countersteering and end up washing the front out.

But, after the ST I've discovered that the 888 is just a bike that loves to be bossed about. If you go at it with caution it won't respond, if you take it by it's scruff and make it do what you want it loves it. The harder you ride the better it gets.

I think that the 749 won't be quite so raw as a T8, but it'll still take more bossing than an ST.

think i've got the basics now thanks jools
i can now deffinatly go round a bend a fair bit quiker on the 749 than the st
as you say a fair bit of aggresion on the bars is deffinatly required
i also note that you have to be a lot more ham fisted with the throttle in order to make progress
what i cant yet do is get the 749 to respond well to a series of bends it just takes to long and to much effort to pull over from fully banked one side to the other.how ever much oumph you put into the counter steer.
i'm fully aware that this can be fixed with a easy bit off hight adjustment front and rear.
before i do this though i want to investigate what the negatives of changing the steering angle are.
if i can speed up the steering without tilting the bike forwards any more i think it's the way to go?

[Loz]

Glyn, I've adjusted the tie bar at the back of my 999S to raise the rear height by about 15mm. It had no noticeable effect on stability but it did quicken the steering marginally. After a few months of that, I dropped the front yoke down the forks by three rings. There's a tiny amount of instability that's crept in on fast sweepers (at 120 mph plus) but no dramas. The beastie does steer a lot quicker on the twisties though and I can bank left-right-left etc much more easily now. When I compare how the bike is now against how it was on standard settings, well ... there's no comparison.

The changes I've done to mine are so worthwhile, I don't hesitate to recommend them to you. All I suggest is that you tweak the front and back ride heights a little bit at a time (and don't change both at the same time) and see how it goes after each change. BUT ... before you do any of that, make sure you are happy with compression/rebound/preload settings before attacking the ride height.

[Gizmo]

Its interesting to read Neil Hodgson's comments in 03 when he went from 998 to 999. They spent time trying to get the bike to change to suit him but in the end he just adapted to the bike. It does require a different riding style with weight a lot further forward and almost pushing the bike back wards, i also hang off a lot more than any other bike I've ridden, it means you have to transfer weight quickly so a lot of effort through legs and feet.

Steeping a bike reduces rear grip so whilst you'll turn in quicker you'll have to be more careful on the exit. One of the big plusses of the 999 is how fast you can put the power down between corners, you'll sacrifice some of that drive so whilst it might be quicker on corner entry it won't be overall.

I tried a number of rear ride heights and fork lowering, I'm now back to 285 on the rear and only run 3 rings showing but usually setup mates 749/999's with 4 rings as everyone makes the same comment on slow steering. I run a softer front (Power Race soft) so i can load the front, i wouldn't want it any steeper and have never seen the need to try the race head angle.

I assume you've got rear and front sag set correctly as having them 10 -15mm out each end in opposite directions would influence things as much as altering a head angle

[Loz]

Agree with Gizmo, including about hanging off. I do this more on the 999 than I've done on any previous bikes. It makes the bike feel less vague at the front, much more planted and of course it means you can get the power down quicker out of the bends.