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  #21  
Old 24-Dec-2005, 06:59
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khu996 khu996 is offline
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Yep, standard termi asymmetric system with cat free front pipe...pulls like a train with a clean curve all the way to the limiter!
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  #22  
Old 24-Dec-2005, 15:42
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749er 749er is offline
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Mood: Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games
749 v ZX-6R comparison

Well you can tell I have too much time on my hands at the moment so I spent some of it workin the following out.

I read in another post about how 749's are overpriced/underperform in comparison to jap bikes, and that they are not good value, and that some in the bike press feel they are underpowered etc. Part of this comes from the fact that in line 4s post much higher maximum power output figures than a 749. As most of you will know its not really power that counts as it is a function of torque and rpm, so the greater rpm you can run to, the more power you will have. Lower revving v twins are always therefore going to produce less power. They do however produce torque by the spade load.

So, before I start, yes this is very unscientific and of no real value, two different dynos, different locations, maybe different altitudes, temperatures, grade of fuel etc, but what the hell, its an out of interest comparison. Be interesting to see some more accurate data from other bikes. Could we have a dyno graph section where we can post results?

What counts is not a peak fugure as you dont ride about at 136bhp, what counts is the area under the torque curve. So I compared this for a 749 (rated to be 108bhp stock), with termis, no power commander and a Kawasaki, Zx-6R (636cc rated to be 136bhp stock) but with full akropovic and and a PC111.

Both power figures above are calculated at the flywheel for a stock bike.

Measured at the wheel for modified bikes the bhp figures were

KWAK (full akropovic system, pc111 with custom map)- 116bhp
749 (asymmetric termis, no pc111)- 103bhp

So by this one figure method of comaprison, there is a big difference. But when you integrate the area under the torque curve the Kwak is only 3% ahead, and this could well be reduced/eliminated if the 749 had a PC111. The 749 torque curve looks very choppy in comparison to the Kwak, so a pc111 is likely to be a big help.

Areas under each curve were calculated between 4000 and 11000rpm for the 749 and 7000 to 14,000rpm for the Kwak. So a 7000rpm power band for each

Given the close result, I would guess that this is why 749's run against 600cc in line 4s in Supersport series, ie why they are allowed more CC

I will try an post the graphs up. Be interesting to compare a 999S with an R1/GSXR1000
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  #23  
Old 24-Dec-2005, 16:02
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Mood: Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games
here is the graph, hopefully
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  #24  
Old 24-Dec-2005, 16:05
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Mood: Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games
try again
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  #25  
Old 26-Dec-2005, 01:37
galaxy galaxy is offline
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Well, here it is. Still has some flat spots in the torque curve but that's from the exhaust and guess something I'll just have to live with. 41t sproket I got for Christmas should help out with that though. HP curve I thought looks pretty good. As for justifying a PCIII & custom map...3-5 hp gain EVRYWHERE and a gain of 7 at the best. Torque increased everywhere as well. BUT, the kicker...look at the air/fuel ratio. Does it get any better than that?? That's what you can feel in the seat and in the throttle EVERYWHERE!!!

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  #26  
Old 26-Dec-2005, 15:30
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Originally posted by galaxy
Well, here it is. Still has some flat spots in the torque curve but that's from the exhaust and guess something I'll just have to live with. 41t sproket I got for Christmas should help out with that though. HP curve I thought looks pretty good. As for justifying a PCIII & custom map...3-5 hp gain EVRYWHERE and a gain of 7 at the best. Torque increased everywhere as well. BUT, the kicker...look at the air/fuel ratio. Does it get any better than that??

very nice indeed, feel free to mail me a copy of your map
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  #27  
Old 26-Dec-2005, 15:41
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Doesn't Galaxy have a full system though??? Shame it's not an assymetric or I'd be after the map too

[Edited on 26-12-2005 by Twinfan]
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  #28  
Old 26-Dec-2005, 15:50
berto berto is offline
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I would say that if youre trundling about in it doing the usual day to day stuff then its not going to make a big difference. If youre doing trackdays then maybe it is. Ive just had my full termis fitted and Im not going to bother with it any more. Its something i did consider. Seems a waste of money IMHO if youre just using the bike on the road.

Davie,you talk a lot of pish and as you don't know which way your bike is pointing I would say people in general should dismiss your technical opinion...IMHO that is....merry xmas
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  #29  
Old 26-Dec-2005, 19:02
galaxy galaxy is offline
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Perfect example for him is on my graph...Look at the A/F of the system with the Ducati performance ECU that came with it. (red line) It's kinda wavy, but not too awful bad. Yes, you could probably live with it normal driving on the street if you so desired. BUT, take a look at my map and he made some very drastic changes to fix that sucker. I remember seeing a change of 17 in some places. Even for the street it was very worth it. This was a change you can feel in the seat of your pants at any driving condition or rpm, and not just a huge gain in hp at the very top that you may never notice.

Yes, my map includes the following....54mm full 2-1-2 system, stock air filters, new NGK plugs, 18* outside, 65' elevation. If anyone wants to give it a try let me know.

[Edited on 26-12-2005 by galaxy]
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