Ducati Sporting Club UK > DesmoDue Race Series > DesmoDue - General Questions and Chat > Who's best to run DD - the DSC!

[Loz]

888heaven, where's your roundel? (joke!)
I have to say, your comments have struck a chord with me.

When DD was first touted to me, (I believe at Track Attack 2.5 but my memory can play tricks on me), I was led to believe that it would be for DSC Members, riding essentially unmodified bikes, and that it would be just about the cheapest way to race motorbikes.

DD in reality seems to be fairly close to that ideal, but somehow the usual racing formula that competiveness is directly porportional to expenditure applies. In my naivety, I feel sad that this is the case but I suspect it is unavoidable - unless the rules about modifications were made stricter, of course.

In all other respects, and being largely unaware of any politics that may be going on behind the scenes, I have to say that as a member of DSC, I'm proud of what has been accomplished by the Club and the DD racers/Team Owners. What a fantastic achievement for all concerned.

[Rattler]

Originally Posted by Loz

888heaven, where's your roundel? (joke!)
I have to say, your comments have struck a chord with me.

When DD was first touted to me, (I believe at Track Attack 2.5 but my memory can play tricks on me), I was led to believe that it would be for DSC Members, riding essentially unmodified bikes, and that it would be just about the cheapest way to race motorbikes.

DD in reality seems to be fairly close to that ideal, but somehow the usual racing formula that competiveness is directly porportional to expenditure applies. In my naivety, I feel sad that this is the case but I suspect it is unavoidable - unless the rules about modifications were made stricter, of course.

In truth a DD race can be won by a rider on a virtually standard bike, with only minimal modifications for race compliance. Domski's efforts are evidence of this as he rode a late Monster that had race cans and race airfilter performance mods only. And the fact that he was beaten in one race this year by Glen Graham on an older, nearer stock 620ss is further proof.

You can spend lots of money on the bike, fairings, PC111's, dyno time, trick suspension, etc, etc, but the best riders will run at the front whatever they are on.

The rules on modifications are pretty restrictive and ensure that; In DD, a slow rider on a fast bike will always be beaten by a fast rider on a slow bike.

Tim

[domski]

Originally Posted by Rattler

...he was beaten in one race this year by Glen Graham on an older, nearer stock 620ss...

I wish you lot would stop reminding me about that!!

Glenn's even more stock bike does have pipes, filter AND a chip(?) also re-valved forks which mine doesn't. Dunno what shock he's got though, it looks standard

He just rode better at the last corner - git

I agree though, a good rider on a stock bike, will beat a slow rider on a fast bike. There are some seriously fast bikes out there, I'm worried what will happen when a quick rider jumps on one!!

[skidlids]

Costs
Many a class B bike is out on the grid for less than £2500, mine included. Some parts on what are now 10,11 or 12 year old bikes are no longer serviceable, namely standard shocks and brake master cylinders, add to that worn discs and there is little choice but to spend some cash on improving the bike. For many this translates into fitting bits off larer models, like a 750/900SSie shock, 916 master-cylinder and discs off anything from the late 90s early 00s. All of which can be had secondhand for a reasonable cost from either fleabay or breakers.
Then all you need to do is learn to ride them like Fil2 does or Chris Wood, Paynep, Grif64 or Andys 900SS to name a few others. And unlike last year you don't need to pull the engine apart straight away to fit a 675cc bigbore kit.
All this still translates to a very chreap entry into racing and with race meetings costing me in the region of £300 a time for entries fuel etc you can take part in 7 UK meetings for a tad over £2200 allowing for the purchase of a new set of Pirelli Diablos.

In case people haven't noticed their is a large proportion of DD racers that do not come onto the board many of whom just want to race and are happy that the DSC has given them the oppotunity to do so.

When I sent out a survey to class B entrants a couple of months ago 22 said they intended to be back for more in 2007 along with 3 maybes, which accounts for the 25 replies that I had and out of those that didn't reply I suspect 3 of them will be wanting to come back.
For many 2007 will be their third year of racing and as the cost of the bike has been dealt with, a years racing in DD works out quite cheap.

[Loz]

Dom & Tim
I do accept that the best rider is likely to win, whatever he/she rides, within a given set of rules, provided the difference in ability is enough to overcome the shortcomings of his bike. I also accept that a slow rider will most likely not win, no matter how much is spent, given the modification restrictions in place in DD.

I also note that in the examples quoted - Dom and Graham - the bikes are modified, performance-wise, compared to stock bikes. I've seen the amount of money quoted on the message board as having been spent on bikes by some of the competitors. My over-all impression is that a good deal of money (sometimes very serious amounts) is being spent on what is a an entry-level, grass-roots club series. Further, if you are a "middle of the road" sort of racer, you are not only going to be beaten by riders with more ability (fair enough), you may not be competitive compared to other MotR racers with more money than you (which runs against the original DD ethos as I understand it).

Still, I am somewhat re-assured that the riders themselves do not seem to feel that this is an issue.

Anyway, I'm only jealous of the DDers cos the original series was going to be for 750's (I've got one of those and was half-toying with the idea of having a go - I can't afford another whole bike).

[domski]

Originally Posted by skidlids

In case people haven't noticed their is a large proportion of DD racers that do not come onto the board many of whom just want to race and are happy that the DSC has given them the oppotunity to do so.

I disagree (unsurprisingly for me).

I think your statement is wildly inaccurate. Sorry Kev.

I think the majority of DD rider DO visit the forum. It's largely made up of the active forum users in my opinion. Here's the more regular forum users...

Tony PERRIN
Tony HATHAWAY
Tim PRITCHARD
Tim HOWARD
Richard THIRKETTLE
Phillip HUNTLEY
Phillip CLARKE
Phil HARRIS
Paul PAYNE
Paul MARTIN
Nick BOUSTEAD
Murray BOWN
Mike ATACK
Michael WINTER
Lucie STONE
Kyle HINTON
Kyle BENNETT
Kevin ELLIS
John WILLIAMS
Ian LEAH
Grahame BUTCHER
Graeme MELVILL
Glyn HINSLEY
Glenn GRAHAM
Franco NISCO
Eric HOWE
Doug CLEMMANS
Dominic CLEGG
Dominic CANN
David PRATT
Chris WOOD
Antony ESPINDOLA
Antoine JOSSERAND
Andy ROBERTS
Andrew SHEPPARD
Andrew GRIFFITHS
Andrew CHALLIS
Alastair BISSON

That's 38 by my maths. I'd say that's quite a majority.

Am I wrong?

[Loz]

Kev, thanks for your input. I am a little unclear where the line is drawn between replacing worn-out original parts with equivalent modern gear and what represents a performance upgrade. I guess that is sometimes a grey area.

I appreciate the time spent bringing me up to speed with all this.

[domski]

Originally Posted by skidlids

When I sent out a survey to class B entrants a couple of months ago 22 said they intended to be back for more in 2007 along with 3 maybes, which accounts for the 25 replies that I had and out of those that didn't reply I suspect 3 of them will be wanting to come back.

That will be great. Fingers crossed!

[domski]

Originally Posted by Loz

My over-all impression is that a good deal of money (sometimes very serious amounts) is being spent on what is a an entry-level, grass-roots club series. Further, if you are a "middle of the road" sort of racer, you are not only going to be beaten by riders with more ability (fair enough), you may not be competitive compared to other MotR racers with more money than you (which runs against the original DD ethos as I understand it).

That's a fair statement.

I would think that the 583 comes more down to rider ability and the bikes are a whole lot cheaper too. I can't see people spending anywhere near the sort of cash that an 'affluent' 620 rider would. You're just not going to get the same gains (I wouldn't think).

Unfortunately, all racing is incredibly expensive. Whilst the running costs of DD are low, the initial outlay is much higher than other classes. You can buy a half decent 600 supersport bike for £5000, but that will probably cost £800+ a weekend and eat tyres. The other end of the spectrum (to which DD is closer) would be CB500's - bought for £300-£1200 and cost the same to run as DD. Now that is cheap racing.

The other side to racing, at any level, is that even if the rules don't permit it, people will always find ways to spend money or cheat or try to gain some sort of advantage. It happens in virtually every class, that's just human nature I suppose?

Class B does provide great value for money.

Class A will always be tougher and more expensive, as the bikes are more expensive and the faster riders race in it.

Both classes are incredibly good fun and the riders, teams and spectators on race day are a great bunch of people. That is what makes DD different/special.

[domski]

Originally Posted by Dseered

I know one of the maybes who is watching all this very closely

As long as he's not one of them tarts who hangs about in hairdressers Lambos