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  #11  
Old 03-May-2006, 17:24
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DSC Member Shazaam! Shazaam! is offline
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Hi DEMON,

At the risk of starting the annual dreaded oil thread, I'd be interested in any comments you might have on this post:

http://ducatisportingclub.com/xmb/vi...=6566#pid53390

In particular, note the MCN test* recommendation to change your motorcycle oil more frequently, and more often than 3,000 mile intervals that is normal for cars. Motorcycles are somewhat harder on an oil's viscosity retention properties than cars. (The gears in the transmission are probably the significant factor in cutting the longer oil molecules into shorter pieces that are less viscous.)

* Test result: motor oils loose 30% (or more) of their viscosity in the first 1,500 miles.
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  #12  
Old 05-May-2006, 03:47
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Shazam,
good to see someone has excellent knowledge about oils... anyway here goes...

Motorcycles are harder on oils for the fact that they rev higher than cars and this means that the effects of oil shear are greater, particularly in Big end bearings, and gearbox parts, as the parts move more dynamically.

The biggest degraders of oils in any engine are-
1. heat, effects of combustion products, and finally degradation through mechanical shear, this being from the oil 'tearing" as it separates from metalic surfaces.

oil is required to basically -
1. lubricate
2. cool
3. clean

Motorcycle oils like any automotive oils have additives to combat this, namely the likes of lithium, detergents for engine cleaning (internals), phosporous, friction midifiers, zinc, and a few years ago even lead (extreme pressure additive), but lead is now replaced with polymers.

Every manufacturer has their own additives, but generally are based on the above, although zinc, phos and lead are diminishing (lead has gone).

As you rightly mentioned, viscocity does diminish quite quickly (relatively), and this is due to heat, and shear exposure.
During the first few revs of an engine, when boundry lubrication exists (this is when you a very thin film of oil between metallic surfaces), this is when we experience most mechanical wear, until full lubrication is achieved (hydrodynamic lubrication), and the oil is up to normal temp ie operating temp.

for change intervals, modern oils are able to achieve longer miles between changes, simply due to their stability from the addition of modern chemicals.

I agree that changing your oil on a more regular basis is a good thing, but not essential. Bike manufacturers give change intervals after their engines have been on a test bed / dyno, and after a specified time an oil sample is taken for analysis. Thereafter the manufacturer will decide upon the interval.

Did you know that the earlier oils from the PAH group of products can be carcinogenic. The PAH stands for poly - aromatic hydrocarbons, and is your basic mineral oil. Years ago oil companies issued data sheets with their products to outline the problem with PAH, and recommended full hand protection, and in some cases, face masks when handling these USED oils.

Here is a word of warning, when conducting oil changes / or handling oils, always use rubber gloves, to prevent the PAH's from entering your skin and dispose of properly.

TO SUM UP - Dont go over your oil change interval unless you really have to.
always use the manufacturer' recommeded oil grade (visc), or better, but if you have a jap bike with a wet clutch, you may void your warranty / cause damage to your clutch due to the inclusion of friction modifiers / polymers in semi, and fully synthetic oils.

I use fully synth in my duke, and semi im my yam r6, and depending on use, change the oil more regularly, simply because I can.

Mobil 1 has now been out for a good 15 years on the market, but has been under test some 5 years before that. We tested this oil in various applications, particularly high revving engines, both cars and motorcycles, and it was found to have excellent visc stability until the addition of friction modifiers, particularly a certain polymer, so a comprimise was agreed upon.


Whilst we are on the subject of oils / fuels, did you know that the jet engine used in airplanes actually uses diesel ?

The fuel, jet - A1 is a derivative of the napthane group of oils, and is a highly "cracked" product of crude...basically kerosene.
next time your at the airport and smell fuel in the air...what does it smell like ?

Whilst on the subject of "whose oil is best" people go around ranting that shell is best, or BP is no1, let me tell you that the oil majors carry each others oil in the tankers you see on the high seas, however its what happens to this oil at the respective refinery that makes the final product.

Also certain crude base stocks from the 8 different main supplies around the world are used in different ways to produce different end products, say Arabian light crude for fuels, Brazilian crude for fuels, plastics, mineral oils etc...each has its merits.

did this help.

demon - E/Mobil marine oils
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  #13  
Old 05-May-2006, 15:26
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2 excellent PhD Chemical Engineering theses! Thanks!
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  #14  
Old 05-May-2006, 15:38
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Engine Oil

Great post on engine oil Demon. I use Ducati's recommended oil in my ST3. I would like to know which is the best oil to use in my old BMW R75 air cooled boxer engine.
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  #15  
Old 05-May-2006, 17:10
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I wouldnt put a 50W in if not in the handbook as a recommended wieght for the climate range. on the subject of Synth/Mineral, I would always buy the best I could get which if your engine is capable of running synth will always be an ester based synthetic, these are chemically built rather than cracked from mineral oil. A couple of makes are Motul and Silkolene (check the can as they do lesser versions too) .
Its bin a while sinc I owned a 916 so can't remeber what the book said though suspect it will be 10w40 as thats whats recommended for my 1000SS and aircooled bikes can be harder on oil than water cooled engines. Note as you dont have a wet clutch the only other bike related consideration is the chopping the gearbox does so best stick with bike badged oils probably.
Only really old engine designs are at risk of Synth damage ie A series Minis etc, as some phosfur bushes are alledgedly at risk of going dry with a synth, I do have engine blowup exposure to this when my mini trashed its transfer gears when a bush failed all the debris then lunched the gearbox and crank journals too after running it on synth . PS the amount of swarf and crap that seems to come out of ducati sumps its probably best to keep the oil fresh not skimp on quality. A further note on thick 50w oil. The cams are a long way from the sump, cold oil thick oil takes longer to pump round so your cams and followers may be stressed more than necessary if heavy oil used, whne the engine is cold. . Plus how long an hard do you ride? ie how often is the throttle nailed to the stop? beyond 40w is only needed for extreme running, to put it another way, my car a 300bhp 4pot 2liter turbo runs on 5w40 thats going to stress oil far more than a twin bike engine as the turbo bearings really cook oil.?
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  #16  
Old 05-May-2006, 19:20
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OOh goody...an oil thread. Any advice would be appreciated on the following.

I've just had the cam belts done on the 851 after a long lay up and was about to do an oil change. I thought I would do two in quick succession to clean out any rubbish which may have settled inside the engine.

My intention is to run the bike until the oil is hot and then drain it off & fit a new filter.

Fill it up with some Halfords 5w/40 fully synthetic ( It was on offer at £19 ) and run it for a couple of trips of 150 miles and then drain off.

Fit another new filter and fill it up with some better oil.

My question is ..Is it O.K. to use a 5w/50 on a temporary basis?

Thanks in advance

Phil

[Edited on 5-5-2006 by philthy]
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  #17  
Old 05-May-2006, 20:29
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Quote:
Originally posted by ariel
Great post on engine oil Demon. I use Ducati's recommended oil in my ST3. I would like to know which is the best oil to use in my old BMW R75 air cooled boxer engine.
Lard
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  #18  
Old 07-May-2006, 19:47
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Just remember one little thing, Oil is cheaper than an engine !

Personally I use a semi synthetic oil in my Jota and change it every 1k miles and fully synthetic in the duke and change it 2-3K.

yer pays yer money etc etc etc
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  #19  
Old 07-May-2006, 22:06
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Thanks for all your replies.

As I couldn't find Mobil 1 anywhere, in the end I plumped for a Silkolene fully synth 10/40
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