102Hp from 2V Dukes !!!

[Iconic944ss]

Ohhh Dear, dear me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/heads/heads.html

[ali]

Errmmmm. Oh dear. Hmmmmmm. $3,200...... Hmmmmmm. $3,200...... Errrrrr.....

Plus labour.

I know I must have it, just not sure exactly where I'll get the cash from... Anyone need a new kidney??? :D

Ali

[Jools]

Yes, I looked at the Sigma Performance page recently where Neil Spalding was taking about some Full Monty work on ST2's.

I spoke to him at TA3 about it and he was talking about a very, very similar specification with porting work done to the heads, a FIM chip, and taking it out to 966cc (I asked him whether it was really worth taking the capacity up a whole 22cc from the standard ST2's 944cc - but he said the pistons are high compression as well). I've obviously already got the ST2 cams.

Neil said that the ST2 engine was the best 2 valver to work on for this stage of tune because, being liquid cooled, it doesn't suffer from the overheating problems on the rear cylinder. The only main difference between CA-cycleworks and Sigmas work is that Sigma would make some airbox modifications (cut holes in it to improve the breathing) and put a lightened flywheel in as well.

Oh yes. The price? About 2K. Very tempting, but ultimately not reall worth doing on a bike that's only worth 3-ish thou as it stands. I think I'd rather put that 2K (when I get it) towards a 749.

[FiscusFish]

Jools brings up an interesting point. Do you spend the two to three grand on a 2-valve engine and have it produce 100 hp or take the value of your bike and put that £2-3000 towards something newer and "better"?

Other than a 851-888, or possibly an old 70s Ducati I can't think of a bike I'd consider trading my SL in for. It wouldn't help of course that I'd only get a pittance for my somewhat battle-scarred version.

So p'raps including my bike I'd have an outlay of around £3500- max 4000. 100hp, enough torque to pull tree stumps as a part time career and good if slightly slow handling.

Hmmmmmm :eureka:

Darren

[ali]

Bang on the mark Darren.

I've been trying to control spending on the SL on the grounds that it's far more natural to save or buy a £3.5k track 916 for the fast stuff, but I don't really want one (having had one already).

I really want a 100bhp 2v duke without any of the water-cooled weight or hassles. The problem is I know it's going to end up costing more than a 749R!

If I did everything I'd like to then it'd be £2.5 on the engine, £1.1k for the front end, £1.7k for BST carbon wheels, £0.8k on the back end, £0.7k on paint........ £6.8k, plus the value of the bike £3k.

Add a couple of Ti/Stainless/Mag bits in there and you're over the £10k mark. I'd have to be pretty damn sure that I'm never selling her to lavish that sort of cash on her.

Having said that I can't imagine a more pleasing bike than a truly sorted SL! :D.

Cheers,

Ali

[Steve M]

duff duff duff duff duff duff duff duff BANG! hello con rod, what are you doing out here?

[Iconic944ss]

Even though $3200 works out at £1794 - its an awful lot of money to justify, without any of the obvious additions that it would need anyway.

I keep on working on getting the suspension sorted - all but - very slowly.

Until the lottery win of course :bouncy:

Frank

[skidlids]

http://www.kaemna.de/cms_en/katalog.htm?&view=seite&seite=27

some more to spend your money on, twin plug conversion anyone

[Monty]

I had a similar thought process 6 years ago when I had a 900ss-loved it to bits but wanted more power and better handling. I was going to get Chris Clarke to do a 944 conversion with flat slide carbs and a 'nest of vipers' front exhaust. The engine work would have given me the power and the pipes would have allowed me to chuck it into corners without continually grounding out the collector-but the cost was over half way towards the difference to change to a 996-which is what I did. Still love the 2 valve motors though.

John

[edwyun]

+100hp would always be nice but i really wonder about the street-ability of such an engine and its longevity.

[FiscusFish]

Yeah and I mean, who needs 100hp+ horsepower. I'd be happy with 95 at the rear wheel..... :bouncy:

Darren

[Dukerob]

I was talking to the guy who owns this place in Assen at WSB, eventually he agreed to fix a 900ss we had with us that was down to running on 1 Cylinder (pick up on the flywheel) he fixed it in the paddock on Sun morning bless him, but he'd been racing a 900SS with something like 112bhp at the rear wheel, won the twins championship in Holland 2 years running apparently, I had a look around the web-site for details but its all in Klogentash..... http://www.startwin.com

(don't key startwins by mistake like I did, the contents totally different !!)

[Jools]

To spend, or not to spend is always the dilemma.

Let's face it, it's not about ultimate power...we could all run around on R6's, R1's or Gixer thous for the same money that most of us have spent on our bikes, but we don't do that because there is something special about Ducatis. It's different things to different people of course, the soul and character of what makes them so special, but it's there.

For my purposes, the ST2 is fine for most things I want it to do. It'll take Mrs Jools on the back in comfort, I can load it up with panniers and go touring, it holds it's own on the road (because I've never been left behind on a rideout) and it's even up to the occassional outing in the fast group on trackdays (as long as it's twisty and not a big power circuit). Most of all it's got that lovely seamless two valve torque that makes it such a hoot to fire out of corners. It can, and does, surprise a lot of 4 valvers, especially 748's. It's a fine all rounder, and as I've only got one bike it's great to have one that can do the lot.

But I want a bit more power, and a bit more of a sports oriented bike. One that is more focused...so what to do.

I can't afford to do that many trackdays, maybe two or three a year at most, so the majority of my riding is on the road. So what power do I need for that? I reckon that around about 100 bhp is perfect for road bikes, plenty fast enough. Anyone that seriously reckons they need (or could truly handle) substantially more than that on the road, and use it all the time, is either very brave, a complete madass or a liar. Probably all three! For the occasional trackday foray, well of course I'm going to have ZX-10's coming past me in a straight line, but I much prefer the twisty bits anyway, so I'm not hung up on having the fastest thing out there. And for the number of times I'm on the track, I can live with that.

So, about 100 bhp then.

I could spend a bit on the ST. There's part of me that says that would be great fun. Right now, what gives me a big grin is for people to say (as they have done) "Blimey, those ST's don't hang about do they? What is it an ST4?". A little bit of tuning, a little bit of weight reduction, a little bit of suspension fettling and I would have a bike with even more of the 'Q' factor that I've got now. Hmmm...a really well sorted ST that looked all inocent....Cheapish option since I already own the bike outright, but at the end of the day it's still only an ST. Silk purses and sow's ears come to mind.

And that's too much of a compromise for the other things I want the bike to do so, let's keep the ST and add another bike when I can afford it.

So there is the prospect of going aircooled and adding an SS to the stable, they already weigh about 20-25 Kg less than an ST, with a bit of tuning you should see 90 ish bhp from most SS's without getting into reliability problems, probably easier to achieve on the IE maybe even 100 ish from a 1000 DS lump (especially with a Sigma 1100 conversion). Could get a base bike for as little as £2250 - £3000 and spend some money on making it a lot lighter and with top notch brakes and suspension, which is always the best way to go faster rather than spending big money on bhp. Mmmmmm yes, a really individual lightweight (for a Duke) bike with bags of two valve grunt and sorted handling. Spare parts a-plenty, very individual, very tasty and loads of character.

Then again, if it's character and pedigree I want, something like an 851/888 would be so cool, especially if I could stretch to something like a 888 SP4 or 5 (my particular faves). You've got the required power as standard, all the pedigree you could wish for, a bike that has people drooling and again with a bit of suspension fettling could be a real giant killer. They also look like a real motorbike. Mmmmmm then again, these are starting to get rare and parts (especially the bling bits) are starting, and I tend to ride my bikes into the ground could I really do that to such a beautiful bike? Or would I be frightened to ride it as nature intended for fear of dropping it?

Yet again, one of the 916/748 derivatives... the options abound for the money. They're starting to drift into no mans land now that the newer bikes are holding sway (even previously 'died-in-the-wool' 916 shape addicts are starting to admire the 2005 bikes). So, prices of 916/748/996's etc are starting to be very attractive. A tidy 916? A £3.5K 748 with 2 - ish thou spent on one of Nelly's 855 conversions, a 996 Bip? Should be able to get anyone of those for about £5-6K. But, like I said, in my book they're in a bit of no mans land with respect to desirabilty. Not as modern as the new bikes, and too new to be real classics like the 888 (yet, although they undoubtedly will be - especially the pedigree versions like the SPS's and the R's). But one of these would be fine for me, a well sorted bike that would give me the focus and the character I want.

Or, I could just pay my deposit for a 2-3 year loan on a 749r or a 999s (probably the 749, because I do like to ride hard rather than lope along in the lazier way the big engine does) .So, in a couple of years when a) I've paid my car loan off and b) my kids are off my hands I would have a bike that would do just what I wanted, be under warranty and require no fettling apart from a few bling bits...just like everyone else.

I know that whatever, it has to be a Duke, but I have a different favourite option every week (sometimes every day), they all appeal to me equally and the options just go round and round in my thoughts...Is anybody else afflicted like this? Or am I just the only Ducati tart who flirts with the idea of any Duke I see?

[ali]

You're as busy at work as I am Jools??? :lol:

Been thinking down very similiar lines to your post. The options would appear to pan out like this:

851/888

You're probably going to end up with an 888 as the 851 option is always a bit nerve-racking. But you want the bike, primarily as a TD bike, so you'll always be holding back 10% if you're on a nice shiny, not easy to replace, 888. Wait until you can buy one for your living room!

ST2/4/4s

Too much weight. As you point out, a 1000DS is already 30kg lighter.

Carby SS

Cheap (£2k for a good base bike). Reliable, but a bugger to get real stomp out of. At silverstone I kept finding myself behind the same R1s/ZXs/etc for lap after lap because I never had enough stomp out of a corner to show a wheel. I'm thinking about 100bhp too but with extra grunt.

FI SS

If you like/can-live-with the looks then a 1000DS has to be the best option. Rumour has it that a 1080 kit and some tweaks see around 105bhp but with a major dollop of torque for those gixer-eating moments.

Put it on a diet and you'll be looking at 105bhp/175kg which are fine stats, but, and it's a massive but, they're rarer than hen's teeth and still fetching high prices £5.5k!

So there's no perfect option. The best, financially, is a £3.5k 916. Until it goes wrong.

The best for TDs has to be a really cheap 900SS. Ditch the lights/indicators/switchgear/heavy seat/rear pegs/heavy pipes/rubber hoses/fairings.

Put on pattern half fainings/velcro LED pushbike lights/hollow carbon cans/ rearsets/front dymag/wide bars, and ride it like your arse is on fire.....

Next year you can then buy a 1000DS lump from a breakers yard and spend £3k getting it sorted.

Cheers,

Ali

[Steve M]

Jools, you are not alone, your thoughts are almost identical to mine.:burn:

[Dukerob]

similar dilemma guys, I ended getting a Honda (SP1) ..... I'll get me coat..........

[888heaven]

costs

surely any hobby is never cost effective its the pleasure ratio you get out of spending and adapting.
if 100+bhp from a SL rocks your boat go for it,personely I prefered to spend £8000 on 3 different bikes than on 1.
apart from straight line performance theres not much in it between my SL or T8 on the twisty bits.
the T8 is about 25kg heavier which makes a difference.

:roll:

[paulmort]

IMHO, which I know aint worth too much
My SSie has had a few mods to make it go quicker than the standard, special paint job, (Blooo does go faster, you know) and all the other stopper type thingies as well.
If I were to sell her to get a 748/916 for TDs then Id never get anywhere near my money back. I went into all the mods knowing this.
So Im prepared to consider moving towards a top end rebuild with all the extras, even up to 966, to get a better power output. Just want to see the faces when 102bhp puts others of the marque to shame!!!
It will cost me enough so I could have done 10 or 15 TDs, but maybe I want to keep the SS and spend on what makes it so unique
My opinion folks.............
watch out, there's a bloooduke about:burn::burn::burn:
rgds
mort

[chicken]

I'm with you mort - at the end of the day, it's nice having a bike that's a little (or a lot) bit different.

Based on the amount of mods done by the other SS owners on the board (Frank, Darren, etc), looks like this is the feeling of the majority...

[JonHsiung]

Hmm... I was never aware that 90-92 hp was "entry level." I am terribly underpowered. :( hehehe

that's one hot kit though. i'd consider it if i had the money.

[chicken]

Welcome to the board Jon!
Mine's a pint of lemonade and a bag of cheese and onion crisps.

That's a nice looking bike you have there. Any bigger pics?

cheers,
Chi

[JonHsiung]

Thanks but it's not much. It's just like any other 900SS out there.

http://www.misswlee.com/~jonhsiung/ducati/rf1.jpg
http://www.misswlee.com/~jonhsiung/ducati/rf2.jpg
http://www.misswlee.com/~jonhsiung/ducati/rf3.jpg
http://www.misswlee.com/~jonhsiung/ducati/rf4.jpg

A couple goodies in the right places... It's originally a white-framed 1991, but has gone through some mods and work done to it. Not much engine-wise, but it'll be coming someday.

[paulmort]

Hiya Jon
Great lookin bike m8. Welcome to the world of DucatiSportingClub
We have another member based out in California, Shazaam so if you post he may get in contact with you. I know its a big State, but surely two DSC members (when you join, as Im sure you will, its only about 40 bucks or so) could see the California rideout section started..........
Mines a pint of Pedigree (warm English beer) at the virtual bar
welcome again, and mine's the Blooo Duke waiting 102 horses.
cylinder heads and barrels now being rework nicely in Canada, so should be on the road in time for 4 days on the track in Spain in January
bestest
mort (aka paul)

[chicken]

are you going for this mort?

Maybe I'll finally get to see Blooo duke in the flesh when I pick mine up from Nelly!

John, nowt wrong with standard but the frame is a nice touch.

Chi

[Iconic944ss]

Nice work Jon - welcome on board

[JonHsiung]

Thanks for the compliments! :cool: You guys make me feel welcome.

...back on topic now...(sorry for hijacking the thread)

[Iconic944ss]

Dont worry Jon - when a bike is as neat as yours - we dont mind a bit of thread jacking - lol

[TP]

Originally posted by paulmort
Mines a pint of Pedigree (warm English beer) at the virtual bar

While we're approving hijacking...

Mort, surely you mean (warm, FLAT english beer) ?

:D

[paulmort]

tp, yup you're right, its flat as well, but you do get more liquid in the glass:burn::burn:
anyway when its as cold as an Aussie's ****, you cant taste the stuff, could be cats pee for all we know???????
:puzzled:
anyway back to 102bhp now, cant wait for bloooduke to resurface later this year
Chi, let me know when you are going to pick up your babe, and I'll try and make it
cu all soon
bestest
mort

[paulmort]

btw the {censored bit} was done automatically
so for the machine that wont pick this up.......
A>>>>R>>>S>>E
An aussie's one as well, so thats as cold as a witches T....I....T

Get that then mr censor:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[FiscusFish]

So what are you actually having done to it Mort?

Darren

[DanShapotsky]

yeah Jon

welcome aboard..nice tidy set o wheels there man... good one :D

Cheers

Dano :cool:

[paulmort]

Darren
The testarossi heads, barrels bored to 944, hi comp pizzie thingies, all gas flowed I guess and the chip reworked to match the heads etc big valves and all that stuff, oh and st2 cams (dont ask me why, but the book says its much better?!?!
Nelly got all the tekky details, but just to say it should go like **** orft a blurdy big shuvvel!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well thats wot I hope for so we just got to wait for the barrels and heads to get back from sunny Canada, maybe never fit em, just drool over em for a month or so
BTW anyone want a set of 900 barrels, hi comp pistons and heads for an SSie, along wiff anything else that gets taken off in the surgery in mid december...going cheapish soon,:bouncy::bouncy:
rgds
mort

[FiscusFish]

Wow.... It's gonna be a bit quick once you've had that little lot done. Shame the head colour's gonna clash with the bike colour.... :frog:

Darren

[paulmort]

oh well, we all have our crosses to bear, Red in blooo duke wont be tooo bad, at least its not yella:sing::sing::sing:
rgds
mort

[chicken]

Sounds awesome Mort!

Maybe you will end up with the world's first "Testablu"?!

[Jools]

Don't want to pee on the testarossa fireworks but $2320 seems like an awful lot of money for that cylinder head work. Even at today's very favourable exchange rates that's about £1260.

You could have similar work done by Mez Porting in Newport Pagnell, mere yards from the DSC's spiritual headquarters and AGM venue in Chicheley. They use a proper flow bench for their porting work (so it's not just guesswork) and you can get the heads gas flowed for a mere £260 the pair !!! If you want to go the whole hog, and get big valves to a size of your choice, then along with new guides it comes to a whopping £480 for the headwork plus £130 for the new valves. So that's £630 all told then (which is, spookily, half the price of the US job). I can't imagine that it would only be half as good, since I originally got the link from Skidlids (I think) who rated them highly.


Link is Here (http://www.btinternet.com/~mezporting/)

Hmmmm....just had a thought. They seem to do a lot of porting work for Aston Martin's, and Aston Martin are based in Newport Pagnell as well...An ex Aston engineer from the days when they used to have top craftsmen building their engines maybe?

[Edited on 12-11-2004 by Jools]

[Iconic944ss]

Yep - Used Mez porting myself many moons ago - top knob !!!

He did a port and twin plug conversion for me - very happy bunny :)

Frank

[FiscusFish]

Originally posted by Iconic944ss
He did a port and twin plug conversion for me

On?

[nelly]

I've heard good things about Mez to, but the Testarossa kit is "more" than just a porting job.
As well as gas flowing and big valves, there's new guides and seats, MBP collet systems for the shims, modified inlet manifolds, new FIM ECU program and new cam bearing covers and oil lines to improve the oil feed to the heads.
MBP's bikes have been running rings around 748's and chasing down 916's in the races. This is one well put together "package" that makes the most of that lovely 2V grunt, that I for one miss on a 4V albeit 748.
Yes, it's not the cheapest work around, but along with a bore change this little lot has been pumping out serious BHP and torque for a whole race season in the US and Canada, with no work at all needed to the engine.
That can only mean solid realiability on the road/track day which is after all what most of us need day in day out.
One things for sure, BlooDuke will be getting a new lease of life akin to dropping a few tabs' in the tank, and Mort will have one special bike, which at the end of the day is what his goal is
;)

[Iconic944ss]

Hee hee - cant wait to see the 'TestaBluey' then - lol

Twin plug conv - was on a BMW flat twin I'm afraid to say - but it was a good learning experience !!!

Nelly...you are da man !!!

[paulmort]

Oh hecky thump...................Signwriter needed..........TestaBlooo has just that magical ring about it
Jools thanks for all the info. Ive now had the barrels and heads and cams sent orft to jolly old 70 - 0 country (if you watch rugby you'll know what I mean)
I made the decision some time ago, so its far tooooooooo late to turn back now, however Im sure that other two valvers will want to go down the Mez route...............and btw, getting scared that blooduke will pass you soon??????????:lol::lol::lol:
see you all soon
rgds
mort aka testablooo