Realistic costs for the race series?

[Rattler]

Anyone provide me with a rough estimate of the costs of next years race series?

I realise that you can go bananas and spend £10K+ on this, but how much do the experienced ones amongst us reckon it would take to get a competitive bike on the track next year, compete in all rounds and get all the spares/supporting stuff required?

Ie, how much for a fair 620, modded to compete, entry to race series, ACU licence, tyres (wets and spares) etc, etc...

The other thread and a thread I started on the MOC suggested that I would be looking at £6k-£7K for the year?

Is this a fair figure? Any ideas? If this is realistic, then its too steep for me.

Its about justifying the money for the relatively short tracktime. How many trackdays can I do for £6K? If you take out the running costs, purchase price etc, then there's still around £2K slack here - so I reckon that's 10-15 trackdays? Is this fair?

I kinda now see the reason why Kev was looking to compete in other series too, in order to justify the expense of setting up the bike I suppose?

Thoughts?

Tim:frog:

[Redsps]

You may want to abort now tim, I was doing some calcs, it's not going to be cheap in comparison with what you acctually get from the whole thing.


cheers
robin

[paulmort]

(wets and spares) etc, etc...

spares Tim,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,add another thousand on for keys and delivery:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::l ol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

srri m8, couldnt resist it, but nice article in Pronto, brought back memories

[yeti]

S'alorra track days Tim. Lets get you bladdered in Cartagena and we'll talk about it. Looked at exactly the same equation and decided against it in the end. All you got to do is have one crash, not even your fault and the whole thing ends in tears.

On the other hand - Life is not a rehearsal! :sing::sing::sing::sing::sing::sing::sing::sing:

[chris.p]

How long is a piece of string:puzzled:,

First off, cost of the bike, second do you want it to be competative?, yes, so suspension, new rear shock£400+, front suspension £250+ (around Mallory suspension can make up to 2 seconds a lap, don`t sound much but it is, ask Weeksy,skidlidspaynap etc ), spare wheels(do not use ebay, to dear, try a friendly breakers, tell them what it is for,should get them a bit cheaper, also spare clipons etc, if it will get damaged if you fall off, carry a spre one. tyres, one set of wets £200, one set of race tyres per 3 meetings depending on suspension & commitment. Spares, tyre warmers, generator, cost of entry fees, fuel to get there etc, etc.
Go and see local tool hire shops & get a generator on the cheap by advertising the company on your bike, it is suprising what can be done.
7 to 10k sounds to much, 3k tops for a bike inc suspension spares etc after that its entry fees, fuel & tyres, I did a full competative season in F400 using secondhand tyres, hang around the paddock, check out the well off guys, they flog off tyres before they are to worn. Its down to you on how you want to do it, all new=expensive, secondhand=far cheaper.


Chris.:roll:

[ali]

As much as I'd love to blow £10k on a sorted 620 there's no possible chance of doing so for many years. I'll have a realistic ceiling of £4k for the season, with a max of £1400 going on the initial bike purchase. If a decent deal can be done for a 674 kit then I may stretch it by 10% but after that and it'll be more deomestic grief than I can handle!

I can completely understand those with cash spending it and, given the mixed grid, it'll be good to see a wide variation. I'm really looking forward to seeing the brightest/cheapest solutions to making the most of the rules, not the person who's dropped off a £4k 620 to a mechanic for a month of dyno work.

Having said that, if I win the lottery then its carbon/ti everything and race school with Rossi! :)

Anyone with experience think I'll have a hard time sticking to the £4k budget??

Cheers,

Ali

[skidlids]

Cost of Desmo Due

Hope to get a 600SS for £1500, will try and make 916 race fairing fit as I already have one and it has a catch tray.
Fit new belts, oil and filter. £75 ish
Slip on exhaust, dynojet kit and K&N unless bike already has some or all of these. £2??
Aeroquip hoses if not already fitted. £20
Fork oil change, maybe different grade, air gap and preload spacers £20
Maybe new spring on rear shock £30
Two front tyres and three rear. already got a couple of fronts and a rear so about £170
Solo seat would be nice
Steering damper--- Not sure if needed yet maybe it will be at Castle (Bumpy) Combe but not Brands Indy or Cadwell woodlands.
Acu licence is already on the cards so not a added cost, New Era and North Glos club memberships likewise.
Entries if I race in another class as well one class will get a reduced rate so will add little to my yearly entries.
Same applies to transport costs etc as I will be racing next year anyway.
Race fuel for a timed practice and two races say around £15
No eyesight test, traing school or novice bib,

So mainly about a £2k outlay on a bike and then I'll be ready to go out to play. Now what shall I sell off to try and raise £2k, full 749S body kit, 955 Corse engine and running gear, Fireblade, GSXR600K2 race bike, DP rearsets and heal carbon gaurds, 54mm exhaust, ZXR400L even the Dymag Carbon arm. Hopefully it will be the Blade just after Xmas

[Red-leader]

Down to the last few millions Mr Rattler !

[Rattler]

Originally posted by Red-leader
Down to the last few millions Mr Rattler !

Times is 'ard fella!!! Just trying to justify keeping three bikes and only using them on the track!!!;)

Its not necessarily the money, (although it is more than I thought) more the justification of that kind of outlay against what I'm presently doing. I'm not sure I would be able to attend all races anyway as I have other "stuff" that could keep me away, both business and personal (my son's golf or football tournaments for example).

As with most activities/ventures I undertake, I like to set a realistic budget and this one just seems to be getting stretched to what's a bit higher than I had initially expected.

If I do take part, then I realistically won't be attending too many track days on the ZX and that wouldn't justify my present expense on the ZX.

Having given this further thought, I'd need to keep costs down to under £4K to justify it to myself I reckon.

So I'm off to do my sums!!! Any other guys racing now who can add some thoughts?

Tim:frog:

[Rattler]

Cheers Weeksy - food for thought.
:cool:

[antonye]

Sorry weeksy, but I really can't see a 600SS needing a new set of tyres every weekend!

You'll get 2 weekends out of them, maybe three if you're lucky at this level.

I'm also intending to sell the bike at the end of the season - either to someone doing it the next year (if not myself) or put it back on the road, so this will offset some of the cost.

[phoenix n max]

Well i've read through the quoted costs and whilst I agree that you 'can' spend 5-7k if you really wish I personally feel that with this series being a 6 round series only then the costs 'could' be kept lower it really depends on your view of the series and what you want to get out of it.

Some costs are unavoidable. Fees-Licence-Club Membership-Fuel-Tyres-Food- etc but...

For this series as a taster and for 6 rounds only then to keep to a budget it's possible to do this:

Bike £1500-2K ( lots of monsters already have some serious mods made to them already)
Tyres 2 sets max really unless you wanna do serious test days.
Don't need spare wheels with wets ( TW only used wets twice last year in 20 odd races)
No Genny
No warmers
No van ( trailer £150 and tent or mate to tow cheap caravan)
Belly Pan £40-50
Lockwire £ 10
Oil Change £40
Fluid Change £20
Belts £25



Regards food for the weekend - how much would you spend at home during the weekend going out or-and on takeaways?

For me if I decide to take my road bike then my costs are even further reduced as my bike already would have Ohlins rear and Racetech front.

For me it would be fun only.

For TW it cost him £12k for last season on a minitwin.

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

[Rattler]

Originally posted by weeksy
Originally posted by phoenix n max

Some costs are unavoidable. Fees-Licence-Club Membership-Fuel
£1300 ??? or so.... £130 per race meeting average x 6, = £800, fuel, for bike and car/van, average of £65 x 6. (40 for car/van, £25 for 4 races over weekend and 10 laps practice.)


Bike £1500-2K ( lots of monsters already have some serious mods made to them already)
Tyres 2 sets max really unless you wanna do serious test days.
trailer £150 and tent or mate to tow cheap caravan)
Tow bar £100
Belly Pan £40-50
Lockwire £ 10
Oil Change £40
Fluid Change £20
Belts £25



Regards food for the weekend - how much would you spend at home during the weekend going out or-and on takeaways?

For me if I decide to take my road bike then my costs are even further reduced as my bike already would have Ohlins rear and Racetech front.

For me it would be fun only.

For TW it cost him £12k for last season on a minitwin.

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

Even hacking your budget to the bare minimum, we've still got over £4k

Over £4K - right, but the biggest part of this is the bike purchase, so assuming you can get back close to what you paid - then you're looking at around £2.5K to race - that's a bit more like it!!!

Tim:frog:

[skidlids]

Tim I budget £3k every year for my own racing, obviously this doesn't include any bike purchases or me sponsoring Adrian at the TT.

[phoenix n max]

Hi Weeksy ;)
I didn't add it up and as I said it 'does' very much depend on what you want to get out of it.
For me it's a personal acheivement and I really wouldn't bother about tooling around at the back. It's the taking part that I like the idea of.
There is no such thing as cheap racing thesedays I agree - however no real sport is cheap.
I competed with horses for many years and CK will tell how expensive that it too.
I do believe it can be addictive for some - I wouldn't consider myself one of those ( way too old ) ;)
I've seen how easy it is to get carried away with the spending and that was with a reliable bike ( yes it was reliable ) ;)
Horses for courses. I don't believe it has to be horrific but it's not cheap - what fun is thesedays ?

[twpd]

Am I allowed out on my minitwin? ;)

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by twpd
Am I allowed out on my minitwin? ;)

You wanna proper bike you do :o

[twpd]

Originally posted by weeksy
Originally posted by twpd
Am I allowed out on my minitwin? ;)


you should thank yourself lucky we even let you on the site racing a Suzuki ;)


(pot kettle and black:) )

Indeed.... :s

748 says "race me, race me, race me" ;)

[twpd]

Originally posted by phoenix n max
Originally posted by twpd
Am I allowed out on my minitwin? ;)

You wanna proper bike you do :o

I have a proper bike. I just don't ride it. :p

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by twpd
Originally posted by weeksy
Originally posted by twpd
Am I allowed out on my minitwin? ;)


you should thank yourself lucky we even let you on the site racing a Suzuki ;)


(pot kettle and black:) )

Indeed.... :s

748 says "race me, race me, race me" ;)

No no no it says : Please please TW - start me start me start me :o

[twpd]

Originally posted by phoenix n max
Originally posted by twpd
Am I allowed out on my minitwin? ;)

You wanna proper bike you do :o




http://www.niw.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/niw/team_hcr/hcr_fotos/sears.jpg

[phoenix n max]

<sigh> No class ! ;)

No where's the report this post section ?

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

[twpd]

Originally posted by phoenix n max
<sigh> No class ! ;)

Just look at that effortless style. That is class ;)

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by twpd
Originally posted by phoenix n max
<sigh> No class ! ;)

Just look at that effortless style. That is class ;)

It's an SV Suzuki - Its made to make people look like they can ride.
My case rests - you wanna proper bike you do :P

[twpd]

For that I is coming out (sic) on a Ducati now. Just to kick ur sweet little ass. :p

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by twpd
For that I is coming out (sic) on a Ducati now. Just to kick ur sweet little <B>***</B> . :p

Well you can't ride the 748 - it won't start
:lol:

[twpd]

Originally posted by phoenix n max
Originally posted by twpd
For that I is coming out (sic) on a Ducati now. Just to kick ur sweet little <B>***</B> . :p

Well you can't ride the 748 - it won't start
:lol:

Aye. Tru enuff. :(

I think it's sulking.

[phoenix n max]

We spirited ladies don't like it if we ain't used and abused ;)

[skidlids]

Steve like everybody we all have to start somewhere, I started with a 6 year old CBR600FN, a spare set of wheels and a trailer.
What I was trying to say is add £3k onto the initial out lay.
Some people need to buy a bike and some don't, same goes for a van or trailer.etc etc
As for Genny and warmers for those out for fun they are not a requirement just ask the R6 cup lads, OK they have 2 warm-up laps but they arrive at the first corner a lot quicker than I ever could on a 600SS and then they then have a lot more power to lay down exiting the corner.

[Monty]

"Do you really think it's acceptable for a bunch of blokes to turn up in the paddock all riding pieces of crap kicked together from breakers yards, no warmers/awnings/gennies/vans etc etc etc and go play out on track ??"
Absolutely I do Steve, if that's how they want/can afford to do it then go for it-the whole point of this series is that it should be fun for beginners and a taster for racing. As lond as the bikes are to the formula and ACU legal then I don't see a problem-yes I know that once the bug bites the wallet somehow gets bigger but we all have to start somewhere.

As for me with a motorhome purchased for last year 'cause I got fed up getting wet in a tent, genny, warmers, trailer which I don't use as the bike hangs on the back of the motorhome, and the cost of the TZ-and I don't even RIDE it myself-I am in no position to criticise.
One of these days when I am feeling brave I am going to add up all the invoices I have from Dennis Trollope.:o

John

[chris.p]

Originally posted by weeksy

OK, here's whe bit i get myself in trouble (again)

Do you really think it's acceptable for a bunch of blokes to turn up in the paddock all riding pieces of crap kicked together from breakers yards, no warmers/awnings/gennies/vans etc etc etc and go play out on track ??

Maybe 15 years ago this is how people raced Kev, it simply doesn't happen these days. Think of how professional the paddocks are these days when you go to a meeting.

Warmers are not just physical improvments, they are psychological too.....

This could turn into a slanging match, but heres my twopenneth,
Sorry Steve but I have to agree with kev, I started racing in 99, not so long ago, I rode a standard CBR400Gullarm, standard suspensionm just a dynokit & a open can, no trailer just my mum in the car with the kids & a toolbox, no wets, no warmers, & yes I rode the bike to the circuit (mallory) with the wife, bless her on the back, taped up the lights, disconected the brake lights & wired up the sidestand, one practice session, no warm up lap:( , average lap time was 59 seconds this was against other roadstock 400s, Positions 2nd & 4th, ie a simalar situation as the desmo due racing,( yes it was pre edwenas), so yes you can race competatevly on a budget without awnings, caravans, & all the trappings that can come with it, racing is seriouse but it is also fun, & that I think is what this series is about.
Chris.:roll:

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by chris.p]

[madmav]

Originally posted by skidlids
Cost of Desmo Due

Now what shall I sell off to try and raise £2k, full 749S body kit, 955 Corse engine and running gear, Fireblade, GSXR600K2 race bike, DP rearsets and heal carbon gaurds, 54mm exhaust, ZXR400L even the Dymag Carbon arm. Hopefully it will be the Blade just after Xmas


Now isn't That just the point !


Racing is like a DRUG !!!!

and anyone who knows of a friend or family member who has had a serious Drug addiction, will know that they will BEG BORROW and even STEAL to support their Habit!!


sitting on the fence (as i dont race ) but i know plenty who do!!

Racing is a lifestyle

Those of you who are considering doing This DESMO DUE,should consider a lot more than the cash to set it up,as it will put a big strain on your finances, your social life,and even your marridge etc etc

It's a champagne lifestyle and no disrespect some of you who wanna do this have a Lemonade Pocket!!!


seems Desmo Due,should have been set up like <

Buy a BIKE!

leave it standard !

must be ridden to the track!


Then go race ya mate !


would have made it a real challenge !

and nearly all would have a similar Budget ..

JUST MY OPINION

;);) mav

[desmojen]

[i]Originally posted by weeksy Who is right and who is wrong, only time will tell...

You are all right, everyone will do it their own way, some will spend a lot, some will spend less. Doesn't really matter does it? Weeksy's estimates are not unreasonable, but I am equally sure it can be done for less, a lot less!
The main point, as he says is that everyone who does it will have a whale of a time!! :D

[Rattler]

Originally posted by chris.p
Originally posted by weeksy

OK, here's whe bit i get myself in trouble (again)

Do you really think it's acceptable for a bunch of blokes to turn up in the paddock all riding pieces of crap kicked together from breakers yards, no warmers/awnings/gennies/vans etc etc etc and go play out on track ??

Maybe 15 years ago this is how people raced Kev, it simply doesn't happen these days. Think of how professional the paddocks are these days when you go to a meeting.

Warmers are not just physical improvments, they are psychological too.....

This could turn into a slanging match, but heres my twopenneth,
Sorry Steve but I have to agree with kev, I started racing in 99, not so long ago, I rode a standard CBR400Gullarm, standard suspensionm just a dynokit & a open can, no trailer just my mum in the car with the kids & a toolbox, no wets, no warmers, & yes I rode the bike to the circuit (mallory) with the wife, bless her on the back, taped up the lights, disconected the brake lights & wired up the sidestand, one practice session, no warm up lap:( , average lap time was 59 seconds this was against other roadstock 400s, Positions 2nd & 4th, ie a simalar situation as the desmo due racing,( yes it was pre edwenas), so yes you can race competatevly on a budget without awnings, caravans, & all the trappings that can come with it, racing is seriouse but it is also fun, & that I think is what this series is about.
Chris.:roll:

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by chris.p]

Chris - I'm with you on this one (apart from the riding to the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!);)

If I do this, I'm gonna get a cheap 620 (so it can be competitive as standard) - get some ground clearance, set it up as best it can be with the original components (brake lines and pads aside) - then get out there.

I'm sure the organisers of this are watching this thread (and other similar ones) to see how it evolves before they add comment - but for me its about cheap, fun racing.

If I can't get a bike that's competitive and keep the costs down to around £2K a year (on top of the initial bike purchase price) then its a non-starter for me.

My calculations are simply based on how much I would gain personally from racing over just taking part in trackdays.

Mav makes a fair point about the impact on other areas of life and I need to consider the needs of others (family / work / responsibilites) above mine. This may be the "real" cost of the racing?

I don't/won't have the time to properly set up the bike, practice on it etc, etc - I'm sure there is a real buzz to be gained from racing - just reading many of Weeksy's comments makes this more than apparent.

But personally it needs to be gained in a sensible, safe, friendly, competitive, cheap environment.

I believe that this will then meet with the original intentions of the organisers.

Tim:frog:

[TP]

Originally posted by Rattler
Chris - I'm with you on this one (apart from the riding to the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!);)

If I do this, I'm gonna get a cheap 620 (so it can be competitive as standard) - get some ground clearance, set it up as best it can be with the original components (brake lines and pads aside) - then get out there.

I'm sure the organisers of this are watching this thread (and other similar ones) to see how it evolves before they add comment - but for me its about cheap, fun racing.

If I can't get a bike that's competitive and keep the costs down to around £2K a year (on top of the initial bike purchase price) then its a non-starter for me.

My calculations are simply based on how much I would gain personally from racing over just taking part in trackdays.

Mav makes a fair point about the impact on other areas of life and I need to consider the needs of others (family / work / responsibilites) above mine. This may be the "real" cost of the racing?

I don't/won't have the time to properly set up the bike, practice on it etc, etc - I'm sure there is a real buzz to be gained from racing - just reading many of Weeksy's comments makes this more than apparent.

But personally it needs to be gained in a sensible, safe, friendly, competitive, cheap environment.

I believe that this will then meet with the original intentions of the organisers.

Tim:frog:

Tim, just a thought mate but why don't you set out your £2k budget with what you need, tyres et al (it's all been listed above) and just manage it. If you are going to go over it perhaps skip a round to keep it down (and give the rest of us a chance to catch up in the points :P )

Like you I'm going to do the minimum to the bike to get it out on the grid, ground clearance, belly pan, lockwire and brake setup aside (we need to change the lines for ACU regs). Having said that I may get a 620 depending on finances etc early next year. This does mean that, at this stage, I won't be running the 996 with DP which I had hoped to do. But, I have pledged my support to Desmo Due so that is my first priority at the moment.

So I'm still not sure about what to do with the 996 because of all the cleaning I've just done I don't really want to ride it in winter. I've just got last winter off the bloody thing. But I bought it to ride it and if I'm mainly using the 600/620 for TD's and racing there's not much point in having a 996 on a SORN really. Like you I'm struggling to justify having three bikes at the moment so it looks like the KTM supermoto idea is out the window (bugger).

I realise the above is a bit of a ramble, just sharing my thoughts really. Hopefully it will benefit someone.

[Rattler]

Originally posted by tp-996
Originally posted by Rattler
Chris - I'm with you on this one (apart from the riding to the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!);)

If I do this, I'm gonna get a cheap 620 (so it can be competitive as standard) - get some ground clearance, set it up as best it can be with the original components (brake lines and pads aside) - then get out there.

I'm sure the organisers of this are watching this thread (and other similar ones) to see how it evolves before they add comment - but for me its about cheap, fun racing.

If I can't get a bike that's competitive and keep the costs down to around £2K a year (on top of the initial bike purchase price) then its a non-starter for me.

My calculations are simply based on how much I would gain personally from racing over just taking part in trackdays.

Mav makes a fair point about the impact on other areas of life and I need to consider the needs of others (family / work / responsibilites) above mine. This may be the "real" cost of the racing?

I don't/won't have the time to properly set up the bike, practice on it etc, etc - I'm sure there is a real buzz to be gained from racing - just reading many of Weeksy's comments makes this more than apparent.

But personally it needs to be gained in a sensible, safe, friendly, competitive, cheap environment.

I believe that this will then meet with the original intentions of the organisers.

Tim:frog:

Tim, just a thought mate but why don't you set out your £2k budget with what you need, tyres et al (it's all been listed above) and just manage it. If you are going to go over it perhaps skip a round to keep it down (and give the rest of us a chance to catch up in the points :P )

Like you I'm going to do the minimum to the bike to get it out on the grid, ground clearance, belly pan, lockwire and brake setup aside (we need to change the lines for ACU regs). Having said that I may get a 620 depending on finances etc early next year. This does mean that, at this stage, I won't be running the 996 with DP which I had hoped to do. But, I have pledged my support to Desmo Due so that is my first priority at the moment.

So I'm still not sure about what to do with the 996 because of all the cleaning I've just done I don't really want to ride it in winter. I've just got last winter off the bloody thing. But I bought it to ride it and if I'm mainly using the 600/620 for TD's and racing there's not much point in having a 996 on a SORN really. Like you I'm struggling to justify having three bikes at the moment so it looks like the KTM supermoto idea is out the window (bugger).

I realise the above is a bit of a ramble, just sharing my thoughts really. Hopefully it will benefit someone.

Fair comments Tony - a £2K managed budget seems reasonable to me.

My intention with this post was to establish whether this was realistic. It appeared from the earlier posts that it may not be, but my thinking is now that it can be.

As far as your quote - So I'm still not sure about what to do with the 996 because of all the cleaning I've just done I don't really want to ride it in winter. - you can clean her more than once you know!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Keep the 996 - you'd regret it otherwise.
Tim:frog:

[TP]

Originally posted by Rattler
As far as your quote - So I'm still not sure about what to do with the 996 because of all the cleaning I've just done I don't really want to ride it in winter. - you can clean her more than once you know!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Keep the 996 - you'd regret it otherwise.
Tim:frog:

More than once? In the same year? Are you sure thats allowed? I thought it was an annual event :frog:

I know I'd regret selling the 996, it doesn't even make sense from a return point of view, considering the money I've put in it ... Does free up the garage though ... maybe back to people thinking I'm mad for commuting on the 996? Take it off a SORN? There's already someone who is mad on this board ...

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by tp-996]

[NBs996]

well I'm with the school of thought that most of us would want to do it for the fun and experience, and hopefully all involved will put emphasis on this rather than get really competitive. If you want to be spending the kind of money that sees a new set of tyres for every race then sod off to bsb and do it - that's not what DesmoDuo is about! Am I wrong??

After a proposal put on the table to me today I might be taking to the grid myself...
if I do then I'll be racing my wallet rather than others on the track. I understand weeksy's thoughts on how the competitiveness can escalate and cause more cost, but that's got to depend on what targets you set yourself, and let's face it steve you're a lot more dedicated to racing than I could ever want to be! And good on you bloke, I say!

I reckon (hope!), without considering the cost of buying the bike, the season budget should be less than £2k unless you're racing to win.

And about the tyres - if I do more than 2 sets (one dry, possibly one wet) then I should really be sacking my suspension staff!! Look at what I ve done this year for example - 1 set of 208GP's on the 996 have lasted 4 trackies (2+ hours each) and about 1500 road miles, so 6 weekends of less than 45 mins each on a bike with half the power should just about wear the hairs off!

Right... now where's that calculator...

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by weeksy


I dunno guys, i think the 'just doing it for a laugh' will become something you won't see the relevence of my postings until about the 2nd race meeting..... By then it's stopped being a 'bit of a laugh'. JHP's bike has cleared off and WALKED the first races as it's 0.2bhp under the max limit (and why the hell not i'd say). Rattler is sitting ahead of TP in the title race and TP is out for revenge... Dickie is sitting pretty using all the CSS skills to get round in a decent 4th place. Skidlids is now arriving at one of his favourite tracks.... :)


And Phoenix is still tooling around at the back but enjoying herself just as much as she did at the beginning of the season :P;)

[NBs996]

Hello again, Devil's advocate here....

forget about those that want to chuck all the effort and money into being 0.2bhp off the limit, and let bill and ben have a ding-dong for 2nd place if they want. I've just finished a season's racing with enduro, me in the pits and mate riding the bike, and each race was about doing the best we could with what we had, and that was it...

I sure don't want to be negative, and if I find myself in last place then I'll probably end up in the gravel chasing down the bloke in front. But at entry level racing I'd imagine it's got to be more about the rider than the bike - let me ride the series on a factory 999rs and skids will probably still kick my arse!

So I ask without the benefit of experience - is it really worth spending money on making the bike quicker? Are we likely to find ourselves more skillful than the bikes?

Purely speculation, cos my knowledge in this is somewhat weak, but I reckon the novice riders will be better off working on themselves rather than the bike... on a 600ss what I lack in cornering skill I reckon I can make up on power-2-weight ratio... anyone who's ever seen me might agree :P :lol:
and what the rattly one loses on me down the straight cos he's a "few" stone heavier, he'll make up with his css cornering skills.

I think what I'm trying to say is there must be so much more to it than who's got the fastest bike!

[NBs996]

Originally posted by phoenix n max

And Phoenix is still tooling around at the back but enjoying herself just as much as she did at the beginning of the season :P;)

see you at the back then phoenix!!

[Rattler]

Originally posted by NBs996

and what the rattly one loses on me down the straight cos he's a "few" stone heavier, he'll make up with his css cornering skills.



Wot you talkin' 'bout Willis??????? I've been in hard training for weeks now!!! I'm now up to 8 Mince Pies a week!!

You bein' fatist????

Besides which, I reckon you're spot on with all of your other comments.


Fattler!!

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by Rattler]

[NBs996]

I'll have to relieve you of them mince pies sir... you know it's for your own good!

[Rattler]

Originally posted by NBs996
I'll have to relieve you of them mince pies sir... you know it's for your own good!

Ah 'tis the time for festive cheer and good will to all men - but you can bog off!!!

Them pies are mine I tell ya, mine, all mine!!!!!!!!!

[skidlids]

Originally posted by weeksy
OK, here's whe bit i get myself in trouble (again)

Do you really think it's acceptable for a bunch of blokes to turn up in the paddock all riding pieces of crap kicked together from breakers yards, no

From what I have seen of WJBs CB500 I would say yes it still happens.

Now to read the rest of the posts and maybe add a few more comments.

[Iconic944ss]

I think someone here already pointed out that British Supersport riders dont use tyre warmers ????

Frank

[Nigel C]

Originally posted by weeksy
[OK, here's whe bit i get myself in trouble (again)

Do you really think it's acceptable for a bunch of blokes to turn up in the paddock all riding pieces of crap kicked together from breakers yards, no warmers/awnings/gennies/vans etc etc etc and go play out on track ??

Maybe 15 years ago this is how people raced Kev, it simply doesn't happen these days. Think of how professional the paddocks are these days when you go to a meeting.

Also... they may be turning up a lot faster than you or i, but i dare say they have a LOT more ability than either of us mate :) Warmers are not just physical improvments, they are psychological too.....


Thats how i did it 10 years ago on a tzr250 had a van but that was it !! one set of tyres lasted me a whole season as i blew my budget on a stage 3 tune, tyre warmers are a waste of time in a club race cos by the time your called ,made your way to the holding area and rolled up to the grid they are cold again !!

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by NBs996
Originally posted by phoenix n max

And Phoenix is still tooling around at the back but enjoying herself just as much as she did at the beginning of the season :P;)

see you at the back then phoenix!!

Race yer for it ;)

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by weeksy
You're gonna spend 3 days sitting round in a paddock in nothing but your tent ???


Beers and BBQ available in my awning then lads - but please wear something else other than a tent :o

[NBs996]

Originally posted by phoenix n max

Beers and BBQ available in my awning then lads - but please wear something else other than a tent :o

yeah, now that's what I'm talking about!
sort out some beer and grub phoenix, and I'll let you have last place off me :burn:

[skidlids]

Nick and Pheonix I'm going to ride behind you two then, that way nobody will see the target that has been painting on my back.

Seriously Steve does make some good points. For two day meets it is worth renting a van if you havent got one they are much better for transporting bike and gear and also handy for sleeping in, blow up matresses/airbeds are ideal for sleeping on and a cheap gazzibo comes in handy but will need something to weight it down especially in the Brands paddock, at Castle Combe and Cadwell you can usually peg them down.

Trye Warmers and Genny they're nice to have but not necessary and if you can't ride without them you are going to be in trouble if you ever race at the island.
In the 2002 Adrian started 89th in the Proddy 1000 race and sat out on Glencrutchry Road for over 20 minutes waiting for his starting slot. As we didn't use tyre warmers he new he was on cold tyres and set off accordingly, and dispite the amount of R1s, GSXR1000s and later Blades in the race he still finished 29th on Weeksy's old 1998 Blade with DJ the only one to pass him on the course.

as for how serious to get about it that is up to each individual, I have never chucked loads of money at my racing, I have never had a top spec bike, my best results came on my TL1000S road bike that I raced in Streetstocks and Sound of Thunder, racing it on a Sunday and riding it to work on the Monday, best finish was 3rd place in SoT at Darley Moor with North Glos and 6th overall in the championship.
Since then its been more about enjoying the meetings as I found trying that bit harder and fighting for every point was taking the fun out of my racing and to progress futher would have cost me a lot more money than I was prepared to spend especially at my age, 44 a week tomorrow.

[antonye]

Originally posted by weeksy
Don't forget guys.... You don't think it's just turn up and ride after an 8am start od soemthing ??

on weekend meets you'll be leaving on the Thursday night from home, doing the test day Friday, Racing Sat, Racing Sun, eventually getting home at Midnight on Sunday.....

I think some of you are honestly looking at this with a very blinkered point of view.... You're gonna spend 3 days sitting round in a paddock in nothing but your tent ???

i think i'm gonna give up lads, it seems i'm not getting through LOL

No - the point is that we're going to do it *our* way which is cheap, fun racing.

You may not see it like that, but that's what we're going to do.

I have no interest in buying tyre warmers, a van, awning (cos I've already got a 14.99 gazebo!), spare wheels and wets, 3 sets of tyres for the series (unless I have too) and the like - it just ain't going to happen.

My bike will be a sub £1500 bike, with minimal mods to get it through the ACU regs - £40 brake lines, £50 catch tray and some ponced lock wire - and the rest will be shelled out as I need and no more.

As somebody rightly said up there ^^ at this level it's not about the bike anyway and so putting a new set of tyres and brake pads in it really isn't going to make the difference for 75% of the grid this season.

If somebody wants to go and buy a newish 620, new tyres, motorhome, wets, genny, etc then good luck to them - but don't expect any sympathy from me if I stuff you with my ShiteOldBike :D

[phoenix n max]

Well I reckon all us tailender funsters should invest in a large size gazebo and a dozen airbeds an oil drum bbq and a big sign that says if you've spent more than 3k you ain't allowed in so ner :P
There's space on me trailer for one more and I have a gas kettle in the caravan - bring yer own chipped mug!

( I see and them and us developing here ):D

[Jon]

Tim what really puzzles me is. WHEN HAVE YOU EVER DONE ANYTHING ON THE CHEAP????????????:)

[skidlids]

should be able to answer that one yourself Jon as we all seem to get free entry to your stunt shows :lol:
Kev

[NBs996]

i think i'm slowly persuading myself that i will do this, so to the gentleman who I spoke with earlier today - I'll be in touch sir, we'll talk more.

just wait 'til you see my leathers... i'm sure them alone would qualify me for entry to <3k tent!

[phoenix n max]

Ere Weeksy ...you want one of these you do :)

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/banghead.gif

;)

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

[Jon]

Originally posted by skidlids
should be able to answer that one yourself Jon as we all seem to get free entry to your stunt shows :lol:
Kev


Who ? me Kev:saint:

[madmav]

( I see and them and us developing here ):D [/quote]




No, what ! never:lol::lol:;):smug:

[Rattler]

Originally posted by Jon
Tim what really puzzles me is. WHEN HAVE YOU EVER DONE ANYTHING ON THE CHEAP????????????:)

Blimey - you're right!!!

i was looking at how to keep the costs down, but I should be looking at ways of spending as much money as possible!!!

Ok, how do I get to race the 996R in the Powerbikes? Can I do this for less than £10K?

If I can, I'm not interested!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Maybe I should start my own BSB RattlerRacing entry and get Weeksy to pilot my ex-Toseland 999RS. But he'll have to use tyrewarmers!!!! Rubber doesn't grow on trees you know - or does it?????????

Or maybe I should just build and develop a dozen Monsters that can be lent out at each race. :cool::cool:

Blimey - the world's my lobster!!!

:frog::frog::frog::frog::frog:

[ChrisBushell]

Boys & Girls,

I have subjected myself this morning to reading through this rather long and rambling thread; whilst I realise that there are a lot of points of view that come out of the foregoing, there would seem to be an underlying theme from some people that "Desmo Due" is not a starter class.

Let us be clear; the initial rules have been published, clarification on these has been given and will be incorporated into the final rules that will be sent out just after Christmas (Do not expect any surprises in them) so that you can plan your preparation.

With regard to costs, I think that it is important that we do not get into the relms of fantasy racing here. Yes you will incur entry fees, petrol (to get to the track and participate), servicing costs and tyres will wear out. However have we implied that you need a generator or tyre warmers and all of the other spurious equipment that has been banded about?

Looking at it sensibly, yes your will incur at least £1K for the above basic expenditure. I personally wouldn't count the cost of food, etc whilst I was away from home.

That leaves the bike, I am aware from the people that I have already spoken with that the majority are going after older 600s for about £1500 and are expecting to spend some money on them above basic servicing.

I am sorry but I dont get the idea of a £6-7k budget from this. Yes I am sure that it is possible to spend that, but in all honesty you have to ask what benefit one acheives for the extra expense.

If you need confirmation of any aspect, come back directly to Monty or myself in the 1st instance and we will do our best to answer your questions.

Remember that the Racing and Technical Committee of the DSC decide what is in or out, not public debate. They will respond to the requests and wishes of participating entrants to make the series as good as we can for the benefit of the entrants.

Chris

[NBs996]

so why are you planning on racing the TT then steve? D'you think you're going to win it??

Racing is not about winning, there's very few people on any grid who genuinely believe they can win. As said, the majority of racers are out there to do the best they can with what they've got.

[skidlids]

Originally posted by weeksy
gets onto his lovely dry bike and shoots off on his brand new and fully heated tyres.....

Then gets held for 20 minutes in the assembly area, does his usual warm-up lap then when the lights go off he shoots off down to the 1st corner and tips it in hard as normal, then the front end goes and he is on his butt as his tyres weren't as warm as he thought. Meanwhile the other rider not on tyrewarmers did his usual warm-up lap and left the line in his usual manner arived at the first corner knowing grip would not be as good as it will be later in the race and allows for that as he tips the bike in...oh look he has just passed a guy sliding on his butt.

I have seen far more 1st corner crashes since tyre warmers were introduced than I did before.
We could always make it even and ban tyre warmers

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by skidlids]

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by weeksy
At the end of the day, if winning doesn't matter then WHY BOTHER !!!! stick to trackdays..... it's all the same....

Racing is about winning... it's about being the best you can be... if you don't care about being the best you can be, then why compete... why do it at all....


the reason i'm 'bothering' is purely to give racing a go, its something i fancy trying and for me this is the best/cheapest opportunity.

if winning doesnt matter then why bother??? maybe ask wcm or aprilla in motogp, or some of the privateers in bsb wsb. for alot of people taking part does matter, myself included. dont get me wrong if i get a chance to overtake someone or move up a place i will take it. but i really am out there just so i can say i have been racing and for the experience.

if people only went into an event they thought they could win there would be alot of very small grids/participants: formula 1 - 2 entrants ?
tour de france - 3 entrants?
motogp - half a dozen?

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by ChrisBushell


With regard to costs, I think that it is important that we do not get into the relms of fantasy racing here.

Exactly :)

[dickieducati]

weeksy, as you say opinions differ and thats no bad thing.
it will be interesting to come back to this and see who's, if any, opinions have changed. give you your due you have been there and done it so you may well be better placed than most to comment. we'll see.

[Iconic944ss]

Its an interesting debate - with many view points.

I always saw the Desmo Due as a way for riders to have a go at racing as a logical extention of trackdays (eg in that many would already have some basics - leathers, tools, trailer etc).

If someone buys a cheap(ish) bike - only does 3 or 4 rounds and decides its not for them then they will not have a huge loss and might be able to sell the bike on again (but there again - how many guys wanna buy an ex-race bike, nevermind a 600 Duke).

I agree the days of being able to do almost anything motorcycling related - on the 'cheap' are gone. But I think the series is aimed at participation and enjoyment and if peeps want to do it badly enough - i'm sure they will find a way.

Roll on Cadwell.

Frank

[antonye]

Originally posted by weeksy
I don't think i'm going to win the TT mate, the TT is more a dream than a reality.... The manx is the more likely of the two....


Sorry Steve, but you're contradicting yourself now. If you know you're not going to win then why, as you said yourself, are you bothering to enter? Surely you'd be better off sticking to trackdays as well?

I know the reason - it's because you want to take part and have a go at winning and you may be surprised to learn that a lot of us in the DesmoDue series feel exactly the same.

Do I think I'm going to win? It's difficult to say. I don't know the full line up, but from the few that I do know about then I may well be in the running, and at least not last ... I'll leave that to Tony.

Who can predict the outcome anyway? What happens if the hot favourite breaks their leg getting out of the bath half way through the season? If we could do that then we'd all be millionaires through easy bets!

Please don't judge everyone but what you feel is necessary for your racing, just because you've been there. I know a lot of amateur racers and a good friend of mine, who won the Bemsee 250GP championship in 2000, never used tyre warmers when I went and watched him race!

The point is that I'm going to take part and I'm not going to spending anywhere near 5K this season *gauranteed*. I'm keeping a total of costs throughout the season, so it will be interesting to see how much I do spend.

[antonye]

And, of course, if I do spend that much then I will eat my own hat. But if the wife ever finds out then that will probably be the last meal I get anyway :D

[Ray]

Desmo Due is not the cheapest way of trying racing, BUT it is potentially the cheapest way of doing a championship on a Ducati.

There are always two extremes of Budget in any series. At one end you do get the competitors who get enjoyment from " just being there" they do it on a shoestring, making the best of what they have already, be it a mates motorhome or secondhand tyres. They compete with the spirit of the rules in mind.

At the other end you have the super competitive types with the cash to match, they always use the best tyres, they test before every race meet, the bike has every performance enhancing mod going. They know the spirit of the rules but obey the letter of them.

I have never seen a race series yet where cash doesn't count for something. Don't kid yerself.
I have never seen a race series survive for long where just one big budget effort steamrollers the opposition into submission, year in year out.


You can argue the T055 either way until the cows come home but as long as the grid is viable and this thing is running in three or four years time who cares???


Ray

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by Ray]

[rockhopper]

I think its interresting that there were two posts a while back which would have seriously helped reduce the costs. They were both about restricting the 620 bikes with either a weight limit or an intake restrictor so the 600 guys wouldnt have to spend a £1000+ making their bikes competitive.

Not one person replied to those posts.

[butch890]

Weeksy,quote"am i getting anywhere".
With what ?
I am sure that ALL of us that have signed up have done our sums as to the budget for next season,and whilst i understand and respect the experianced knowledge of the members that have raced already,i feel that I have made a sound judgement regarding going racing next year.
I am the first to admit that our budgat for the year will not be whay we end up spending but as i am now in long trousers i feel i am quite capable of crossing that bridge when it comes.
The series has taken a lot of effort to get up and running and i feel that i for one will be doing everything i can to encourage people to take part.
People may well start the series for fun but it will be there decision if they want to put more money in after the first couple of rounds.
Butch

[couchcommando]

That was some reading. A couple of yrs ago I too wanted to race just for fun and wanted the cheapest way in. Ignoring my first year we'll take it from this to get some perspective on how cheap you can race.
First off racing for fun just doesn't happen, no one is happy unless they are winning. If you are happy not winning then why are you out there, you'd be better off on trackdays.
The majority of club racers are normal people like you and me, occasionally a talented rider appears and wipes the floor with evreyone before climbing the ranks. So just taking the normal folk into consideration you cannot win on a standard bike. This is the first thing you find out and the first thing that demoralises you. On that grid you need at least equal equipment to stand a chance especially in the psychological game. Knowing the guy next to you has had tyre warmers on his new tyres has already made him quicker than you on your cold tyres that have done 2 meetings. Just how much do tyres/warmers cost compared to crashing your bike ? Fair enough if you don't wanna ride 100% into the first corner but it's club racing and the first corner matters in a 6 lap race.
If you're on a gris you will want to win and it's pointless trying to save money going racing.
I spent all year on a bike 15mph and 15hp down and altho I had fun it can't be described as the most enjoyable year. If I had the hp and speed yet still didn't win I could live with that as I accept I'm probably not good enough but to not know that for sure is eating away, not next year tho as the bike won't be a valid excuse anymore

So costs for a year....

entries, licence, acu, club £1000 - £1500
Bike £2000 if you're happy not winning (unless you are the next Rossi)
Fuel to the meeting, food, bike fuel, tyres £1500
Warmers, genny, spares £1000

We're already upto £6k to race a standard bike and I'm assuming sleeping in a tent ! That is just not an option at some ciruits that get bloody cold and wet. Where are you gonna stand in sideways rain, where are you gonna get dry/change tyres/repair bike in therain ?
You need to wake up in the morning fresh and warm, if not it's just another advantage given to the guy next to you on the grid :) :)

And don't forget it is addictive, I wouldn't change it for the world no matter what the cost. Just ne realistic about that cost :)

[couchcommando]

Much as it pains me weeksy did beat me, altho he was on a 750 to my 250 but results stand and no one remembers the details. Back in March I was on a 600 and helping him drop his lap times which were miles off mine ;)

I can live with it cos next year I have a bike which wants for nothing, the engine cost more than my current bike and in all honesty weeksy has no chance LMAO I'll bet a mars bar on it, altho not a giant one !

[ChrisBushell]

To answer Rockhopper's question about restrictors on 620s, I have to admit that I must have missed it and certainly no one brought it to my or Monty's attention, hence the lack of a considered reply.

At this time I dont know about the viability of the suggestion, but will raise it when I next talk to John and advise back.

With the greatest of respect for people who are looking at other classes of racing rather than Desmo Due; I feel it necessary to point out that the DSC has created the Desmo Due series as a mean to enable members to compete at a level above track days without the need to commit to 12 or more meetings a year, on a Ducati.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as I posted earlier, we are running this series for the benefit of Club members who have actually or intend to enter. Quite frankly results from other series have no bearing on the DSC's activity.

There is a lot for people to do in the next 4 months, before the 1st race at Cadwell. Quite frankly they dont need the distraction of suggestions that have no bearing on their series.

Chis

[couchcommando]

Originally posted by ChrisBushell
To answer Rockhopper's question about restrictors on 620s, I have to admit that I must have missed it and certainly no one brought it to my or Monty's attention, hence the lack of a considered reply.

At this time I dont know about the viability of the suggestion, but will raise it when I next talk to John and advise back.

With the greatest of respect for people who are looking at other classes of racing rather than Desmo Due; I feel it necessary to point out that the DSC has created the Desmo Due series as a mean to enable members to compete at a level above track days without the need to commit to 12 or more meetings a year, on a Ducati.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as I posted earlier, we are running this series for the benefit of Club members who have actually or intend to enter. Quite frankly results from other series have no bearing on the DSC's activity.

There is a lot for people to do in the next 4 months, before the 1st race at Cadwell. Quite frankly they dont need the distraction of suggestions that have no bearing on their series.

Chis

Not sure what you are trying to say. Racing is racing no matter what you ride. Cheap racing does not exist. Entry fees and running costs are similar no matter what level you are at. Unless you are gonna ban things like tyre warmers you will get some people using them and they will have the advantage. Unless you are gonna ban people from having new tyres each meeting you aren't going to stop that either. As it;'s racing you will get people doing both the above because in racing winning matters and some people will spend as required. Minitwins was meant to be another cheap series so perhaps you should ask the racers there what a season costs ?

No one is trying to put people off but we are being realistic and not hiding anything from someone who wants to race. Would you rather hear the truth now or in 12mths time when you add up the bills ?
If you want to race then surely you want to win, if all you're gonna do is make up numbers then why race ? Why not just do trackdays ?

Make no mistake racing is expensive, certainly more so than trackdays but it's worth every penny. On a t/day you have no idea if the guys around you are trying in racing you are under no illusions and that alone is worth the cost above t/days.

So get out there buy your bikes and enjoy yoursleves :) :)

[Rattler]

Weeksy - take it easy fella - this isn't VD you know!!!:D:D:D

Lets not get personal or carried away with this - I suggest keeping these type of comments to U2U's or emails.

Tim:frog::frog::frog:

[ChrisBushell]

Weeksy

You have mail

Chris

[couchcommando]

I won't have a go at anyone, I'm intrigued as to why the experiences of present racers is of no use to you.
You can't deny the costs involved and it is best to know them up front. tell people it will cost £6k and if they do it for £4k they will be well happy with the savings and come back for more. Tell them it costs £4k and they over spend by £2k you won't see them again.
I would love a cheap race series but skimping on tyres/warmers and other luxuries is false economy. One off cos you pushed too hard on old/cold tyres and you really will be counting the cost. How many of you t/dayers do 1 lap and then ride at 110% ? That's what you're gonna be doing even on the coldest days.
On that note also remember to take out accident insurance that covers racing, not many do but CICA do and pay out quickly :)

[antonye]

Originally posted by couchcommando
Not sure what you are trying to say. Racing is racing no matter what you ride. Cheap racing does not exist. Entry fees and running costs are similar no matter what level you are at. Unless you are gonna ban things like tyre warmers you will get some people using them and they will have the advantage. Unless you are gonna ban people from having new tyres each meeting you aren't going to stop that either. As it;'s racing you will get people doing both the above because in racing winning matters and some people will spend as required.

Some people. SOME people. *SOME* people.

You said it yourself, three time. SOME people.

Therefore, not ALL of the people will have tyre warmers. Not ALL of the people will have new tyres every round. Not ALL of the people will be turning up in motorhomes.

So you've raced and spent loads. Well done.

While I appreciate your comments on how much *you've* spent wanting to win the series which *you* race in, it's not relevant here for me, and probably quite a few of the people who intend to participate in Desmo Due.

Another difference between Desmo Due and a normal series like mini twins is that the number of rounds has been reduced to help minimise costs. There's also a lot longer between races to ensure people have time to prep the bike themselves should they need to.

I'm sure anyone who filled their form in had a quick guesstimate as to how much it would cost them and have made the decision based on that, so please don't try and preach to those who know what they've let themselves in for.

Let people work it out for themselves! If we all listened to the advice given out - good and bad - nobody would ever make their own decisions and learn for themselves!

[couchcommando]

I am letting people work it out for themselves, I am only giving another viewpoint.
What I am struggling with is why would you want to race and then put yourself in a position of not being able to win ? Ability aside the whole point of racing is to try and win. By saving money and noy buying warmers/wets you are at a disadvantage that you can't make up.

It would have been better within the rules to have banned warmers and wets and had a road tyre as the control tyre, like some of the other cheap series do. Also I see you have to have a road licence, I can't understand this as I'm sure there may be fans of ducati's out there that may want to do this but don't have a road licence yet they would have to go to the expense of getting one ? I see 80hp mentioned for these bikes but no internal mods allowed, where is the 80hp coming from and who is gonna police the engines for legality ?

I am totally for cheap racing and I like this idea, I just don't think it's the cheap racing you were aiming for, if it was you could have set the rules a lot better :)

[TP]

It's like a bloody soap opera in here!!

Blah blah blah ...

[dickieducati]

yeah, neighbours............


bog off ;)

[couchcommando]

neighbours did give us kylie so maybe some good will come out of this ;)

to sum up we have

organisers saying it will cost £4k
current racers saying it will cost way more to be competitive

You decide who is right :)

If you're just looking at laps per ££ then t/days are better value, but and this is the BUT then fix per ££ and t/days are poor value, just riding round with no reason getting dizzy. Every lap in a race is at 110% and everyone around you wants your piece of tarmac it is one of the most exhilarating things you can do and this series altho not cheap is prob the cheapest way you can race a duc so if you have any doubst just do it :)

[antonye]

Originally posted by couchcommando
What I am struggling with is why would you want to race and then put yourself in a position of not being able to win ? Ability aside the whole point of racing is to try and win. By saving money and noy buying warmers/wets you are at a disadvantage that you can't make up.


The bikes should be close enough that this kind of thing may not make a difference. It comes down to the cost/participation factor - if you desperately want to participate but can't afford tyre warmers, does that stop you from participating?

Ask weeksy - he's planning on doing the TT but knows he won't win it, so I'm guessing he'll be able to tell you the same reasons!


It would have been better within the rules to have banned warmers and wets and had a road tyre as the control tyre, like some of the other cheap series do.

True - my preference would have been to use road legal tyres only, with no wets nor a control tyre (just because I have a mental block on certain tyre makes!).

But then for all the rules this is the only one that I don't like, so it's not enough to stop me participating.


Also I see you have to have a road licence, I can't understand this as I'm sure there may be fans of ducati's out there that may want to do this but don't have a road licence yet they would have to go to the expense of getting one ?


This is, apparently, ACU regulations.


I see 80hp mentioned for these bikes but no internal mods allowed, where is the 80hp coming from and who is gonna police the engines for legality ?


This is not part of the spec for Desmo Due, nor has it ever been. I suggest you read the full rules -
http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/control/News/index.php?Section_ID=1&Topic_ID=1&Article_ID=570


I am totally for cheap racing and I like this idea, I just don't think it's the cheap racing you were aiming for, if it was you could have set the rules a lot better :)

You obviously haven't read the full rules as yet.
See above.

[Steve M]

The whole piont of racing is to try to win - not really, this is club racing, yes it is a good feeling when you win a race but most never will and accept this, it's all about having a good time and if that is scrapping with a couple of others for tenth place and you go home having enjoyed yourself then that'll do for most I would think.
:burn:

[skidlids]

My next episode will follow tomorrow, as I was writing a new topic titled "my reasons for wanting to do Desmo Due" when the works PC crashed taking my unsaved Post with it, also got a partial reply for this current Topic saved on the PC at work that I will also post tomorrow if its not out of date by then.

[ali]

Three years ago I set off in a Land Rover from Mexico, heading for Argentina. Over the following 20 months I blew every penny I had ever saved, which was about double my original budget.

There's no question that I wouldn't have done it if someone had told me that before going, and no question that it'll always be one of the best things I've ever done.

There's more than a hint of the above in entering DesmoDue but, as a species, we're amazingly good at self-deception, so for the moment I'll keep telling myself that £4k is my limit or I'm going to cancel my entry. If I stray towards £5k by this time next year then I'll try not to throw myself under a bus, but take a few measures (no holidays, no house stuff, etc) in order to keep costs under control. If, mid-season, I want new discs then I won't be eating steak for a few weeks. My decision.

As somebody else has already mentioned, most of us are in long trousers these days, and are all too aware of the pain that debt can be. My thanks to those keen to reinforce just how bloody expensive it's likely to get, but I'm glad you weren't here when I was putting my landy on a boat to Mexico!:)

For what it's worth I'd like to put my hand up as one of the not-going-to-win-it-in-the-first-season brigade, but definitely want to be able to push it harder than I can on a track day and not be devastated if I come off.

I hope to god this doesn't put too many people off as I know Chris and the MT have spent a huge amount of time getting the series going and they deserve solid support from those of us entering.

Cheers,

Ali

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by ali]

[Ray]

The topic of this post is bound to polarise opinion, no one wants to set out with an "unrealistic budget" but it happens, so what?? All this hot air including mine is merely opinion as to what and what isn't realistic, what is and isn't possible.

Unfortunately none of us can see into the future, if we could how come we haven't all won the lottery or avoided the acident last week, last month or last year. We can only base our opinion on past experience BUT IMHO don't stop other taking a leap into the unknown, isn't that what racing is about??? Trying to take yerself beyond your previous limits???

If that means taking yer overdraft into the unknown then thats a judgement call that only the individual can make. Been there done that, got the T shirt. Knowing when to give up is another judgement call.

Fine tell them about your experience but yer can't force it down their throat.

A realistic budget?, how much have you got to Spend?? Spent it all?, then stop.

You can plan to your hearts content but you will not spot every OSINTOT going.


Ray

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by Ray]

[couchcommando]

antonye, not so sure about the ACU and road licence thing, plenty of racers don't have their road licence ? Some aren't even old enough ;)

To whoever is thinking of entering just do it regardless of what anyone says about cost, you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago :)

[NBs996]

well there's a lot of food for thought on this thread, and thanks to weeksy and the couch driver for your views chaps, I do respect your opinions.

If I go ahead with this then for me it'll certainly be a case of stick to the budget in order to meet the mortgage payments! I don't want to go there aiming to win cos I know there's not a hope in hell that I will, but will just set a realistic target for each meet based on who I am and what I've got. Getting that extra place ain't worth giving up eating for!

It'd be just a toe in the water this time, and as for getting serious in the future... well, we'll see.

Have to go now, I have a sponsors meeting to attend :P

[Monty]

Bloody hell!-leave you lot for a day and look what you get up to..........................:o

To answer some points:

Weeksy is just trying to put across his viewpoint that it is going to cost-I think everyone who enters KNOWS it is going to cost-there just seems to be a disagreement as to how much-well the answer is-NO-ONE-KNOWS YET!
AND-it will be different for everyone depending on so many factors that it is impossible to calculate.
Some things however we can calculate.
New Era have said that they will try to keep race entry fees down to £100-so 6 events, £600
Fuel-if you use more than 3 gallons per event you REALLY need to get your fueling checked-so say £15/event so £90 total.
Tyres-there is a possibility that we may use a control tyre(Bridgestone)-no decisions yet. I don't see anyone really being able to use the same set for the whole season but worst case would be 3 sets, and more likely 2 sets I would think so say £400.
All of the events are 1 day with the exception of the first where we have a novice practice arranged at Cadwell on the Saturday at the end of racing. I personally don't see a need to book the practice days since these are usually used to set the bike up and there isn't that much you can do to a 600.
As to sleeping in a tent-well I did it with Johnny B at the beginning of this year and providing your tent is ok it's not too bad-it's only one night after all. You can get a big party tent for £200 which you can get at least 4 bikes in so that's £50 each between 4 of you.
Fuel to get to each track is variable depending on what you drive and where you live, food at the track?-well you eat at home don't you so you have to buy it anyway so basically no cost.
SO, entries, fuel, tyres, food and 1/4 of a party tent come to less than £1,500-the bike is up to you........

"especially at my age, 44 a week tomorrow."-a mere youngster Kev-I'm 56!

"Look at it from this perspective... we have 2 riders... of equal ability on equal bikes.

Rider 1 spends the night before in a tent freezing cold, gets up for a cold wash and a crappy cup of tea from the van.... he then gets into his freezing cold leathers and stumbles off to get onto the bike that's covered in dew from the night before.

Rider 2 has spent the night in his caravan in a bed, he gets up, has a shower, a bowl of porridge and climbs into his nice warm leathers, gets onto his lovely dry bike and shoots off on his brand new and fully heated tyres....."

Am i getting anywhere ??? weeksy-Steve if rider 1 is Wee Johnny B rider 2 gets his backside handed to him-he doesn't sleep very much, doesn't eat breakfast, and is STILL dam fast and that's on an old shed of a CB500

"antonye, not so sure about the ACU and road licence thing, plenty of racers don't have their road licence ? Some aren't even old enough"-deliberate policy of ours to keep it to current road riding members and prevent someone entering a 4 stone 14 year old minimoto champion.

"To whoever is thinking of entering just do it regardless of what anyone says about cost, you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago" and that is about the most sensible piece of advice that's been posted here all day...........

John

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by Monty]

[phoenix n max]

Good grief !

Know i'm not the only one who can see this from both sides of the fence here but ...

This year I was involved in minitwin racing - originally supposed to be entry level and on the whole that was the intention i believe with restrictions to try to ensure it wasn't money that mattered in the bhp stakes. A more modern bike and readily available spares. A good class and with Bemsee very good entries. And no it didn't matter if your in a motorhome or a caravan and old truck - what mattered was the riders, their attendance and determination to race ( please read race not win) The outlay for the year was in excess of 12k i'd say when all was totalled up including bike and mods required and all the kit-genny warmers even down to a slick operation that meant rider got to grid at the very last minute to keep tyres warm. I would say that little expense was spared and even more money thrown at it wouldn't have achieved much better results.

On the other hand - I wish to give this series a go as it suits my bike or a bike I would choose to ride on the track. I would have loved to have took my 600 on the track in with the twins last year but it wouldn't have been viable really.

This series gives me the chance to race my older bike or an older 600ss. I don't care if someone buys a 620 and throws 6k at it for the year. It certainly won't mean that their money is any better than mine-nor that they will enjoy it more-nor that they will get better results than me and given that seeing the amount spent last year and the effort put in by all the team i figure i'm fairly qualified to answer from my own point of view and from the point of view of others here who see the series for what it is.

I understand where you are coming from Weeksy- but most people see it for what it is and anyone who needs the answers can pick 2 figures from this thread and many others with a bit of research into racing forums and come up with a middle figure 'they' think they can do it for or are prepared to spend.

I think there are very few adrenalin 'sports' or 'hobbies' you could pick where the initial outlay would be less than 2-3k and in my book it would be money well spent for the experience of being on the track on perfectly capable bike which wouldn't really fit into other catagories.

I personally have heard many people say how they'd love to race a monster or 600ss ( not sure about the multistrudle but each to their own) If the class remains as intended and space can be found for it then I see no reason why it won't be successful enough to continue in years to come. There is a need, I feel, for a few alternative classes. I know I for one am sick of seeing most of club racing dominated by 600 classes with many entrants and a b and c classes. I found the Sounds of Thunder class by far the most interesting, followed by powerbikes and then the 125's. I never watched the 600's to be honest but thats just me.

It doesn't matter what you race or how much money you spend or what your reason for doing it - you are on the track racing- not doing a track day - but racing. It's utterly and wholly a different thing to doing a track day!

[desmojen]

Originally posted by STEVE M
The whole piont of racing is to try to win - not really, this is club racing, yes it is a good feeling when you win a race but most never will and accept this, it's all about having a good time and if that is scrapping with a couple of others for tenth place and you go home having enjoyed yourself then that'll do for most I would think.
:burn:

Hear hear Seve!

Just proves how competitive it will be though, from how much arguing you all are doing about the cost!!!!!

Who cares?

This is supposed to be fun :lol:

[twpd]

May I say the words "pot, kettle, black" The participants know to what and to whome I refer. ;)

With 13 years racing experience behind me and 32 races this year I'll add my £0.02 worth. I race an SV650, it's a bit heavier and a bit more powerful than the Dukes but, it's a useful yardstick for coming to the figures I list below.

First off - you have to understand that racing is a financial blackhole. You will never be able to spend enough money, however, the wise person is the one who knows when to stop spending money and what to spend it on. I've seen plenty of people drive themselves to the edge of bankruptcy for no appreciable gain.

I agree to some extent with what CC & Weeksy vis a vis why race if you don't want to win but, I disagree with their assertions (Weeksy in particular) that it's necessary to spend nearly £7k.

Bike: £1500-2000
Tyres (2 sets of Rennsports): £400
Clip-ons: £50
Rearsets: £200
Leathers (Crowtree): £700 (I'll assume you have a helmet, gloves & boots)
Petrol: £20 (1 jerry can per meeting), 6 meetings: £120
Licence: £35
ACU test day: £50 (I think)
Race entries: £140 (I'm guessing here but this is typical), 6 meetings: £840
Oil: Change ever other meeting, 3 changes at £20 a time: £60
Oil filter: 3 changes at £4 ea.: £12.
Lockwire: £20

Total: ~ £4240

Travel costs: I have not included travel costs because it depends upon your location and hence it varies a lot but, let's assume £50 per meeting

Food: If it's done by yourself then £10-£15 per meeting is reasonable. Beer & alcohol costs aren't admissable! ;)

Accomodation: Free - use a tent or your van

So, living costs are ~ £60-£65 per meeting. ~£375.

So now, I make the total ~£4615


Let me explain my reasoning:

Bike: Can be found on E-Bay costing anywhere from £1000 upwards. I've seen good sound bikes going for £1500. I'll assume £1750.
If the bike has been looked after then the pads, chain & sprockets, belts, suspension etc will all be decent and will not absolutely have to be replaced or renewed (personally I would).
Spend time ensuring your bike is thoroughly prepped and debugged.. To finish first, first you have to finish.

Servicing: What kind of self-respecting racer pays someone else to maintain or prep their bike? Do it yourself!

Tyres: This year I used my wets on 3 occasions - therefore they were hardly necessary. Lads were using wets when it was just damp and wondered why they fell off or got stuffed. If wets are not necessary then spare wheels aren't. I used a set of Rennsports every 2-3 meetings riding as hard as an SV could go - therefore in a 6 meeting series at worst 2 sets are going to be used. Rennsports are not brilliant in the wet but they're not terible either - compromise and get a tyre that can do both like a 207GP.

Fuel: My SV was using a jerry can of fuel over a weekend of 4 races although as I got faster I doubled the usage! :o I doubt an SS will use more.

Of course, I spent much more than this because I wanted to win and I take my racing very seriously. I had spare wheels, various tyres including wets & intermediates, a range of chains & sprockets, tyre warmers, lots of spares, a van etc blah, blah, blah. I spent £12k but, this is simply not necessary in an inaugural series such as this. What has to be remembered is the following:

1. It's an inaugural series of only a few rounds. There's a risk of spending many £1000's putting a bike together only to be left high & dry the following year if the series folds.
2. It's by no means certain that it will carry on into 2006.
3. Most of the people who will take part have no or very little track experience let alone race experience. Wets, warmers, different compound tyres, a range of gearing etc will simply be lost on them and will be more than they can cope with - many newbie racers get themselves tied in knots with this sort of stuff - knowledge of which is only gained with lots of experience. There's an awful lot of bling in racing.


I'd suggest that £4k is the absolute minimum spend.
£5k would be advisable.
£6-7k if you want good suspension, a range of tyres, warmers and all the other trinkets.

Crashes and mechanical failure will doubtless bump up the cost and you should be prepared for this but, I believe the figures above are accurate. Some individuals will spend more, some less. What any newbie really needs is to spend money ensuring the bike is sound and reliable first before buying trinkets.

My advice to anyone interested in this is to go in with your eyes wide open. Seek a range of opinions from a range of racers. Set your budget based upon informed opinion and sound evidence, stick to that budget. Spend your money wisely and don't be led down the garden path of having to spend money on stuff that you can't exploit because you don't have the skill or experience.
Aim to do everything right - if that means you can only afford to do 4 meetings then so be it. Better to do 4 safe and good quality meetings than 6 with a bike that is a danger to yourself and others.

Remember.... talent is what counts and a talented rider on a half decent bike will nearly always shine through.

What will determine the success of this series (based on my experience of MiniTwins) is keeping the costs down and making it accessible...not throwing £1000's at it and going bust.

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by twpd]

I forgot to add a note about warmers. The debate rages about their usefulness in many places. I use them, I prefer to use them but, it's not absolutely necessary. What with delays in the collecting area and on the grid by the time the flag drops the tyres are cold again anyway. The biggest impact they have for us racers is physcological and to preserve the life of the tyres by minimising the stress caused by hot/cold cycling of the tyres. You might be interested to know that I didn't always use my warmers because the tyres were up to temperature due to exposure to sunlight on a decent day.

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by twpd]

[twpd]

Originally posted by weeksy
Just 1 thing forgotten..... well for now till i read over it again...

How is person ABC getting bike to track ?

they need trailer/Towbar or van..... increased expense

Well I rode my first race bike to my first few meetings......

But factor in a trailer at £100-£150 or borrow one (I know plenty of biking mates who own one). The travel is included in the costs in my previous post.

BTW....my van cost £150!!!! It's been reliable and cheap to run so...the moral is that it can be done.

[twpd]

P is considering giving this a go on her M600. I'm not too keen on this myself because it means no road riding next year but, the idea does have its merits and the money saved on buying a bike could be put towards upping the suspension spec of the bike, improving the brakes for racing use, paying for any mechanical failures and then returning it to road use at the end of the year.

[antonye]

Bike: £1500-2000
Tyres (2 sets of Rennsports): £400
Clip-ons: £50
Rearsets: £200
Leathers (Crowtree): £700 (I'll assume you have a helmet, gloves & boots)
Petrol: £20 (1 jerry can per meeting), 6 meetings: £120
Licence: £35
ACU test day: £50 (I think)
Race entries: £140 (I'm guessing here but this is typical), 6 meetings: £840
Oil: Change ever other meeting, 3 changes at £20 a time: £60
Oil filter: 3 changes at £4 ea.: £12.
Lockwire: £20

Total: ~ £4240


Less £700 as I've already got approved leathers and hopefully will get a bike for £1500, and that's already brought the cost down by £1200 and makes it a mere £3287 by your figures...

[Rattler]

Blimey - what did I start!!!!

Well it looks like we finally got to a reasonable price point then !

Bugga - I now need to find another reason not to do this!!! :D:D:D

Ah yes - it might rain !! :burn:

[dickieducati]

twpd - cheers for your post, its about the best response i've read and makes total sense to me (not necesserily a good thing b.t.w).

i think all most of the rules are fine at the moment, but having thought about it, i now believe having a control tyre as a great way forward to keep costs down - it negates the need for extra wheels and therefore cost and we should be able to get some kind of deal with a tyre manufacturer with a bit of sponsorship.
if going forward after the first year the currect riders feel the inclusion of wets is a good idea it could then be changed.

[dickieducati]

b.t.w if we do have a control tyre can it be pirelli. i like them:D

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by weeksy
Originally posted by dickieducati
twpd - cheers for your post, its about the best response i've read and makes total sense to me (not necesserily a good thing b.t.w)..

playing Devils advocate here.... Is it the best because it's the most concise, or because it misses the bits out it needs to and therefore falls within your budget ?

everyones advise is welcome but it just seems to be the most realistic.

you have to bear in mind this series is aimed at the trackdayer who wants to dip his toes in the racing world.

by definition if you have done a few trackdays you will quite likely have the majority of the stuff you are likely to need:

leathers and riding kit
maybe tyre warmers
trailer or van

and i think alot of people are really overestimating the amount of money to be spent on tyres, petrol, upkeep.

there are 6 races max if you can make them all. 6 laps i believe even with practice thrown in its not going to be many miles per meeting. call it 100. so 600 in total. call it 1k then.
as far as im concerned i wont be fannying about with oil changes etc after every race on a 620 in a very low state of tune.

also for me and maybe some others, the races will replace some of the trackdays i would have done so that money will be netted out too

[DAVE HARRIS]

so far cost for me is one bike £2000.00 hopefully leathers etc I have already got will be ok, van cost 75.00 already lasted me 2 years. Its the cost of annettes valiunm thats worrying me! I have no idea what this will cost me at the end of the year but most years I do quite a few track days and I suspect I will do fewer track days if I enjoy racing.

There have been many comments about why race if you dont want to win, my view is that With the people already signed up my chances of winning are low, but as dickie stated if im not last in the first race it will be a start.

My stated aim when this was proposed was to let younger and fitter club members crash their brains out, but I persuaded myself that it would be fun and I would regret not giving it a go. I also feel that It may be what I need to regain the corner speed I have lost since my string of accidents, and will make me more aggressive as I am being too cautious when overtaking other riders. So although I do not expect to win races (unless its wet and everyone is on rennesports)I do expect to improve as a rider and may even surprise myself.

another rambling nonsense post by


dave:cool:

[Rattler]

Originally posted by dickieducati
twpd - cheers for your post, its about the best response i've read and makes total sense to me (not necesserily a good thing b.t.w).

i think all most of the rules are fine at the moment, but having thought about it, i now believe having a control tyre as a great way forward to keep costs down - it negates the need for extra wheels and therefore cost and we should be able to get some kind of deal with a tyre manufacturer with a bit of sponsorship.
if going forward after the first year the currect riders feel the inclusion of wets is a good idea it could then be changed.

A control tyre seems a great idea - as you say - then there'll be no need for spare wheels / wets etc - keeping costs down and minimising differences.

Tim:frog:

[Rattler]

Originally posted by weeksy
So on top of the 12 races, it's 6 days of qualifying as well..... unless you wanna turn up the day of race and start last (although i'm not actually sure that will be allowed as most clubs require you to complete a certain ammount of laps in practice before allowing you out to race)

Weeksy et al - I see that the first round has qualifying in the Sat, with races on the Sunday - the other dates suggest that its a single day affair - would qualifying be in the morning then, or based upon previous performance?

Tim:frog:

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by Rattler]

[Rattler]

Thanks mate, I'd like clarification of this - as I don't want to be spending the whole weekend away.

I'd ideally turn up the night before, qualify in the morning and race in the pm (fall off). This probably sounds unrealistic, but I can hope!

Monty / Chris - can you confirm if qualifying for the first date (Cadders) is on the practice Saturday or race day (Sunday)?

The timings of these are important to me.

Thanks
Tim:frog:

[Iconic944ss]

Good grief....this is only the setup stage !!!!

What on earth can I expect to see on the track, judging by the 'winning only counts' faction ???

I'm not having having a dig at anyone but carrying the argument to extreme are we looking forward to fairing bashing, carving up into corners and ultimately taking anyone else's line regardless of the consequences.

I can't ever see that happening but - get the drift!

Frank

[antonye]

Originally posted by Iconic944ss
I'm not having having a dig at anyone but carrying the argument to extreme are we looking forward to fairing bashing, carving up into corners and ultimately taking anyone else's line regardless of the consequences.


So you've seen me on the track then?

:lol:

[skidlids]

On previous experience with New Era club championship, each day counts as a seperate round of the club championship with timed practice each morning that sets the grid position for the races. It's all changed a little over the last 12 months in club racing with the introduction of transponder timing. So not sure of this years format

[uncledunnie]

Having just read all the foregoing I know if I was on the fence about signing up for this and was a novice I'd be scared ****less!!! - but maybe thats not such a bad thing!!

I think the points Weeksy and CC make about racing being a run-away train are very important and it is perfectly reasonable of them to wipe the rose tinting from all our glasses. As they rightly point out it is not just a money issue its a time issue too.

Dickie's last post is getting somewhere now and I would just like to put my angle on it and maybe that will help those who may be undecided to reach a decission.

To me, an opportunity has been provided by the DSC for primarily novice racers to test the water in club racing with their much loved Ducati's at a grass roots level in an environment they are comfortable and confident with (DSC) with the help and support of alot of very experienced people which I understand now extends to Ducati themselves.

Yep, the manufacturer is onboard and offering support - as Chris Bushell has said - if you want to know whats actually going on - talk to the people who know. Now how cool is that - I don't think the Jap manufacturers support this kind of racing in this way........... People who buy in are buying in to alot more than a 600cc jap series has to offer and I believe the personal rewards will be much greater (and no disrespect is intended to anyone who races in these other classes - I am trying to illustrate the point that the Desmo Due series is going to be a bit special). In fact, I believe that plans are a-foot to try and sort a 24hr race during the year - now how f**king cool is that.

The rules ARE simple to apply and as TWPD has said the trick to cheap racing is to spend your money wisely. If you think spending £500 on a set of magnesium dingle dangle rearsets is going to win it for you - FORGET IT, loose a few lbs down the gym, sharpen your mind then see how much quicker you can be. If your on a quicker bike than me or a better rider and you end up behind me I won't be waving you past.

Tyres seem to be a problem at the moment - to me I could'nt care less. If its a control tyre so-be-it, as a novice I'm in no position to comment intelligently on the various merits and demerits of the various manufacturers. But what I do know is - if we are on a comprimise tyre, then we ALL are, its up to the rider in us to get the best from it.

Since warmers and their associated costs seem to be an issue then its easy - no warmers - debate over, I personally would be in favour of that ammendment to the rules.

So far as "how much will cost" goes.....

I spent the best part of £1500 last year on trackdays, tyres, fuel and sundries.

I already have a trailer (3 bike) (As an aside - if someone wants to take part and is put off by the lack of suitable transport but lives nearby, I'm happy to help out and keep the costs down)

I don't have a bike yet

I am not considering transport or food because the trackdays and other leisure time have that cost associated with them anyway.

I don't expect my consumables budget (bike) to exceed £1k

I buy a bike £2k (say) and spend a further £1k putting it in shape - £3k total

I compete for a year and decide that was enough, I've spent £5500.

But hang on a minute, I was going to spend £1500 trackdaying anyway and I've got a £3k bike and equipment to sell on. Lets assume I take a hit and sell the bike and equipment for £2k.

The extra cost of competing in this series is only (consumables plus depreciation of my asset) £2000 max.

A weeks holiday in the sun or a years racing with a great bunch of guys - well I made my choice months ago.

In terms of absolute cost, Weeksy you are right. But if like me you want to take that next step from existing trackday addictions (and have already time and money budgets in place for that hobby) then I see no reason why the extra cost need exceed £2k and if you actually already own a qualifying bike then its even cheaper. To me thats pretty damn cheap racing in a gentlemanly environment and this is exactly what the organisers intended.

Afterthought,

when I read JHP were entering with "Dave the storeman" - surely he has a real name !!! my first reaction was - I can see where this going and felt a bit depressed. Now I think bring it on - when the flag drops we are all equal - we can all fall off - have moment - get bike troubles - bad start - get past me - and and for a company with the standing of JHP to have the desire to be involved with Desmo Due this tells me it will be very special and a great year beckons

[Iconic944ss]

Hee hee ....erm, I actually posted the reply after reading to the end of page 1 of the thread - BLIMEY this is an active post isnt it ????

I'm glad the realistic costs are finally coming out at last though.

Damn!!! - can I sleve down my 900 and be allowed in please.

I'll just sit at the back honest :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[skidlids]

Nicely put Uncledunnie

[Rattler]

Originally posted by Iconic944ss
Hee hee ....erm, I actually posted the reply after reading to the end of page 1 of the thread - BLIMEY this is an active post isnt it ????

This my most active thread for a long time - its stirring the emotions!!!!


I'm glad the realistic costs are finally coming out at last though.



About bloody time too - now what was the original question???
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Tim:frog:

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by antonye
[
So you've seen me on the track then?

:lol:

or the petrol station :o

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by Rattler
Thanks mate, I'd like clarification of this - as I don't want to be spending the whole weekend away.

I'd ideally turn up the night before, qualify in the morning and race in the pm (fall off). This probably sounds unrealistic, but I can hope!

Monty / Chris - can you confirm if qualifying for the first date (Cadders) is on the practice Saturday or race day (Sunday)?

The timings of these are important to me.

Thanks
Tim:frog:

tim,

i'm in exactly the same boat, i did have a look on the new era site for as schedule but couldnt see one. i think and hope it is as you say, qualify in am, race pm.

i think the practice on the first saturday is purely if you want to go out and 'practice' rather than 'official qualifying' if you like.

[antonye]

Originally posted by dickieducati
Originally posted by antonye
So you've seen me on the track then?


or the petrol station :o

cnut.

[dickieducati]

you recon you'll make it out of the holding area ok ??

[ChrisBushell]

Boys,

My current understanding is that only the 1st round at Cadwell has a specific practise on the Saturday for 1st timers. All other should be Sunday only.

Chris

[Rattler]

Originally posted by ChrisBushell
Boys,

My current understanding is that only the 1st round at Cadwell has a specific practise on the Saturday for 1st timers. All other should be Sunday only.

Chris

Thanks Chris - is your understanding that the qualifying is on the Sunday?

Tim

[mw]

tim
the idea for sat at cadwell was to have an afternoon scrutineering session (this being the first meeting) and then at end of sat racing to have an extended practice session just for the desmo due series. we would then have timed qualifying on the sun morning prior to races later in the day.
mw

[dickieducati]

funky. :D

[antonye]

Originally posted by dickieducati
you recon you'll make it out of the holding area ok ??

What makes you think your bike will after I've had a quick fiddle with it? :devil:

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by antonye
[What makes you think your bike will after I've had a quick fiddle with it? :devil:


toooooo much information:lol::lol::lol:

[couchcommando]

Originally posted by Iconic944ss

I'm not having having a dig at anyone but carrying the argument to extreme are we looking forward to fairing bashing, carving up into corners and ultimately taking anyone else's line regardless of the consequences.


There is no such thing as your line in racing, if you give someone one mm of trak they will take it, even if you don't give it they will take it ! Ask weeksy about someone taking his line exiting gerards at Mallory ;)

Back to the cost now folk realise it could be expensive I'll show what I spent this year ;)

Already had the bike an RS250, also had a van and caravan and everything else to do with racing.
Bought wets and wheels £400
2 sets of tyres £350
Entries to 8 meetings approx £1200
Fuel, food etc £600

So that's under £3k, it is possible you just have to be very careful or a natural tight bastid like me. And having done this year this way I have set a budget for next year which I won't exceed barring repairs. It's the only way to race and not bankrupt yourself.

The control tyre is a brilliant idea, if only you would race proper motorbikes I'd be interested :sing:

[couchcommando]

Oh and Nige's post is about spot on for costs :)

[madmav]

Delete the thread i say:lol:

censor it as it is only in the interest of the desmo due boys!!! and not relavent to those of us who aint racing!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

[Monty]

"Thanks mate, I'd like clarification of this - as I don't want to be spending the whole weekend away.

I'd ideally turn up the night before, qualify in the morning and race in the pm (fall off). This probably sounds unrealistic, but I can hope!"

Not at all unrealistic mate-it's what Johnny B and I did most of this season.
To Re-confirm and to save you all searching the whole posting for info:

The first event at Cadwell we have arranged for a special practice session for Desmodue racers after the main racing-this is not compulsary, but a generally good idea since I doubt that many, or even any of you have ridden the Cadwell Woodland circuit-I know I haven't.
The actual timed practice and 2 races are on the Sunday-so theoretically you could turn up 7am Sunday, get your bike and kit through scrutineering, go out for your timed practice sometime between 9.00 and 10.00, and then do your 2 races during the day. In between all this you will be feeling sick, running to the toilet every 15 minutes, trying to get something to eat down your throat without actually BEING sick, checking the bike constantly, wondering what you have forgotten-oh yes-and runing to the toilet again........:lol:
Racing-natures best laxative-it always has been with me anyway.

I used to race windsurfers on a national circuit, much the same as bikes it involves lots of carbon and kevlar, special clothing, massive expense, weekends away (it usually rains!) and collisions are very expensive-the only difference is falling off just means getting wet-oh yes and there was usually more than 100 starters on the same line.............:o

Cadwell is the only one of our rounds where you may benefit from being there both days and even then turning up at lunchtime Saturday should be fine since you won't be on track until late afternoon.

"if only you would race proper motorbikes I'd be interested"

Hmmmm, 'proper motorbikes' eh couchcommando-if that involves avgas and castrol 747 you should come and play with us-see my avatar.

John

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by Monty]

[chris.p]

[quote]Originally posted by uncledunnie


To me, an opportunity has been provided by the DSC for primarily novice racers to test the water in club racing with their much loved Ducati's at a grass roots level in an environment they are comfortable and confident with (DSC) with the help and support of alot of very experienced people which I understand now extends to Ducati themselves. [quote]


Here we go;)
As Uncledunnie said, it is a series for novice racers coming up from trackdays, why not make the series for 1st year novices ony???, no clubman racers etc( sorry Kev).


Chris.:roll:

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by chris.p]

[Monty]

By the way folks, 'Dave the storeman' from JHP is actually Dave from parts-and that IS who he is-he has raced twice and apparently fell off both times so he is NOT a 'ringer'

John

[skidlids]

I don't mind getting excluded Chris, shame the entry form went in the post over 4hrs ago along with my North Glos membership. New Era membership and ACU licence renewal tomorrow.

It would save me a packet (at least £2K) if I'm not supporting this by entering it.

I will still be racing somewhere with one of my current bikes. Which would free me up for Thruxton on Oct 8th although I would still be at Castle Combe and Donington for two days(North Glos race there the following day).

Who else will be excluded ? Members that have just joined to take advantage of a Series set up by our club. (Came up in conversation with fellow DSC members last weekend and it didn't come from me).

Out of interest how many grid slots aare spoken for so far.

Kev

[NBs996]

hang on a minute tho... I kind of agree with the theory of making it for first timers only, but this is s'posed to be for ALL club members, and therefor all should have the same opportunity if they want.

Even if there's some experienced racers, it'd not detract from the idea of making it a good series for us novices. In any case, if a novice starts off in, say, Pro-bike there'd be a heck of a lot more seasoned riders to contend with!

Skidywids, I've seen you race and you're probably one of the more "gentlemanly" competitors so don't even think about backing out bloke, or I'll post some more silly pics of you!!

[ali]

Kev can't excluded! He's the HRC to our Harrises! :)

I have no problem being beaten by experienced club racers, and I'm sure there'll be people wanting to go on to bigger and better things that will learn a lot more with some experienced folk around.

Ali

[dickieducati]

no one should be excluded, come one come all.

i'm more than happy to learn from better riders.

and anyway say i do well, and like it and want to do it next year it would be a shame to be excluded because i would no longer be a 'novice'

[Jon]

Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by dickieducati
twpd - cheers for your post, its about the best response i've read and makes total sense to me (not necesserily a good thing b.t.w).

i think all most of the rules are fine at the moment, but having thought about it, i now believe having a control tyre as a great way forward to keep costs down - it negates the need for extra wheels and therefore cost and we should be able to get some kind of deal with a tyre manufacturer with a bit of sponsorship.

if going forward after the first year the currect riders feel the inclusion of wets is a good idea it could then be changed.

A control tyre seems a great idea - as you say - then there'll be no need for spare wheels / wets etc - keeping costs down and minimising differences.

Tim:frog:




You could make it a Michelin macadam tyre. That way one set will last the whole year
:lol:

[NBs996]

Originally posted by Jon

You could make it a Michelin macadam tyre. That way one set will last the whole year
:lol:

yeah and collect enough gravel to re-do your drive!

[Iconic944ss]

Hmmmm....is there any reason why the DSC couldnt offer a 'little' prize for different categories within DesmoDue??? Overall winner is very likely to be an experienced racer, so why not a prize for the novice racers to spice up the competition?

Not that it seems like that will be a problem :devil:

[Rattler]

Originally posted by Iconic944ss
Hmmmm....is there any reason why the DSC couldnt offer a 'little' prize for different categories within DesmoDue??? Overall winner is very likely to be an experienced racer, so why not a prize for the novice racers to spice up the competition?

Not that it seems like that will be a problem :devil:

We could have a "staying on" prize!!!

[ChrisBushell]

Boys

With regard to prizes you wont believe the thoughts that we have had in this direction. Whilst you can expect small worthless trophies at each round for 1st, 2nd & 3rd, the really interesting ones will be issued away from the track/end of the year.

Apart from the various wooden spoon awards that are possible, creativity knows no bounds as to what else might be on offer.

No where can I order those Chinese rubber chickens?

Chris

[ChrisBushell]

With regard to entrants registered, I am holding 16 deposits so far and am aware of at least another three that are due in as of this morning.

Chris

[Rattler]

Originally posted by ChrisBushell
Boys

With regard to prizes you wont believe the thoughts that we have had in this direction. Whilst you can expect small worthless trophies at each round for 1st, 2nd & 3rd, the really interesting ones will be issued away from the track/end of the year.

Apart from the various wooden spoon awards that are possible, creativity knows no bounds as to what else might be on offer.

No where can I order those Chinese rubber chickens?

Chris

Or kermit puppets!!

[ChrisBushell]

At present I have to keep our ideas top secret, if I told you I would have to kill you and all that secret agent stuff.


Needless to say some people might not want to win some of the proposed prizes!

Chris

[TP]

:(

[ChrisBushell]

Kermit hand puppets not a problem, spotted in Bromley lunchtime on my way to the bank!


Chris

[dickieducati]

tp is sooooooo going to get the 'i visited every gravel trap' award;)

[TP]

Originally posted by dickieducati
tp is sooooooo going to get the 'i visited every gravel trap' award;)

Just getting the breadcrumbs ready for your humble pie.

You see, I can finish behind you, it's considered ok, but if I finish in front of you ... well, you'll need to stop posting as Dickie and get an alias, start posting as whippedbiatch or something.

And bow and scrape a lot... ;)

[Edited on 16-12-2004 by tp-996]

[dickieducati]

i can honestly say once and for all that if i come second from last i will treat that as a result.

after that who knows?........big tree's from little acorns etc.:D

[deej]

wow what a read, weeksy thanks for all your advice a few months ago and now thanks for putting the fire back in my belly !!!!!!!!!

i looked at the title and thought i may find out about acu licence costs and instead got all these arguements about big budgets and small budgets.

now after taking it all into consideration i have worked out that commuting fo5rm cornwall to all the tracks, costs of bike and entry fees, 3 tyres and the bits and i should be able to do it on a budget of £3500 ( inc bike which will be sold on ) so i should expect a loss of £2.5k over the season. im not interested in tyre warmers or generators or anything like that as it doesnt bother me at my first decent bend on the 748 a 1/4mile down the road so whuy worry ona track wheer it will be jam packed at the corner, just a nice sounding set of termi's will do me fine !!!

the main reason i will enter is for the fun,jokes,beer the night before, camaraderie ( spelling ok ? ), the time spent with fellow dscer's oh and the racing too. i know how to ride a bike and confident enough in my own ability not to look stupid on any track but i know i will not win and am not interested in winning, too be honest im looking forward to wearing really garish leathers, a tatty ducati instaed of my 748 and in all honesty i will be on my arse sometime as i doubt i can make any friday practice days.

THE MAiN THING I will need being a novice is any help form you guys when i get there,help getting my chosen beast through the scrutineering and any maechanical help as the hours roll by, im sure that people will all muck in together as thats whats good about the dsc !!!!

this series was started as a fun idea to get people racing and thats the way i'll be treating it,its good honest fun where you can then get home and take the mickey out of each other on here !!!!!!!!

bring it on now i say, got to sell the rvf and then the entry cheques in the post and then ive got to buy myself a bike and i'll be there with you guys.

so who's with me for a beer or 2 then?? august 13 th donington park is my missus birthday so we will be having a little bit of a gathering that night so i'll apologise for the noise from the cornish gazebo now !!!!!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Edited on 6-1-2005 by deej]

[NBs996]

yeah deej, that's the spirit... you're welcome in my tent, you'll spot it easy, it's the one with the garishly coloured bike glowing inside!

BRING PASTIES!!! :D

not a lot of time to get sorted tho, only 114 days 'till first practice :o

[skidlids]

Only 52 days to Pembrey Practice for a certain person if he has his bike by then

[chicken]

Originally posted by ChrisBushell

No where can I order those Chinese rubber chickens?

Chris

Sorry Chris,
contrary to what you may have heard from other sources, I am NOT for sale :D:D:D

[antonye]

Well said deej - I'm with you on this one!

[deej]

cheers boys

first favour i need then is ::

does anybody want a rvf400 and quick, its going to ebay this afternoon so we'll see what happens

its good to see taht theres people still wanting to do it just for the sake of saying that they have raced motorcycles and not worried about winning/tuning/warmers and all that posh stuff. lets just race and have fun, im actually looking forward to seeing how much i can push a bike as im not worried about picking it up out of the gravel trap as that will be rather fun

i reckon 1 set of tyres will be plenty, i mean its 2 6 lap races a day at about 2.5miles a lapmax which is about 30 miles a day multiplied by 6 meetings is only 200 miles max !! and im probably going to go with pirelli dragon evo's as the 2003 tyres will be alot cheaper than a 2005 diabblo set and will last just as long on a 600 monster !!!

in case your wondering this is my rough budget :

£1500 bike ( inc cans/pegs ) resell afterwards !!!
£700 entry fees
£300 fuel to meetings from cornwall
£100 acu licence and school day
£50 new era membership
£200 1 peice suit ( cheap nasty garrish j&p suit )
£50 medical
£150 tyres inc fitting
£40 oil change
£50 belly pan
£50 new belts
£40 brake lines
£15 new gazebo
£ transponder hire
£20 new brake pads

£3265 not inc transponder hire

£2000 for the season after bike sale, thats not bad for a first seasons racing

im not including petrol for the races as i would be out riding around using up £25 on a sunday anyway, food and drink isnt included as i'll be saving money by drinking tinnies at £10 a crate instead of £40 in the pub on saturday night so thats cash saved so by actually going racing i will be kind of saving money ( hee hee ) so who says racings costly.

hope this helps you all out


[Edited on 8-1-2005 by deej]

[NBs996]

I think we can take a few pennies of your calcs deej...

New Era entry fees this year are listed on their website as £95
New Era membership fee is £30, but I've heard it might be £25 for us (?)
That's reduced your bill by £130 already!

Transponder hire is £10 a meet. (£60 deposit, £50 back on return).

[skidlids]

Originally posted by deej
in case your wondering this is my rough budget :
£1500 bike ( inc cans/pegs ) resell afterwards !!!
£700 entry fees
£300 fuel to meetings from cornwall
£100 acu licence and school day
£50 new era membership
£200 1 peice suit ( cheap nasty garrish j&p suit )
£50 medical
£150 tyres inc fitting
£40 oil change
£50 belly pan
£50 new belts
£40 brake lines
£15 new gazebo
£ transponder hire
£20 new brake pads
[Edited on 8-1-2005 by deej]

£1500 bike, sounds about right
£700 entry fees, New Era paperwork has its entries as £95 per day
£300 fuel to meetings from cornwall, bit futher than most of us have to travel
£100 acu licence and school day, sounds right to me
£50 new era membership mine was £30
£200 1 peice suit (cheap nasty garrish j&p suit ), also try Ebay for a better quality 2nd hand one
£50 medical, no medical required just eye test about £18
£150 tyres inc fitting, Watch for a anouncement soon
£40 oil change, mine cost £26 with new filter
£50 belly pan
£50 new belts, Mine cost £25 the pair
£40 brake lines, Mine with Nickle Cad fittings cost £10 per line
£15 new gazebo
£ transponder hire, £10 on the day

[chris.p]

One thing that I have noticed that is not been mentioned is Insurence, not trying to put a downer on things, but bones do get broken, I broke my leg racing in 2000 & had I had a policy by a certain american company) CIS I think) I would have recieved over 3K as I was in hostpital for four days & off work for 3 months. Could one of our present racers let the forum know of the company name & how to contact them.
I think a 4/6 month policy was about £65?.



Chris:burn:

[skidlids]

Chris I was only talking about this yesterday with senna3's wife Trudi.
The company is CISA (i think it stands for Combined Insurance Services of America or something like that). they are regular visitors to the race paddocks these days.

Opinions vary , but I think they have improved their act over recent years if the service they provided Adrian with last year following his TT crash.
No soonr had he got home from Nobles hospital in the IOM he went to his local Doctor to see when he would be fit to return to work.
Once the Doctor had pronounced him fit for work the Doctor filled in the insurance forms and in no time what a £2K check dropped through Adrians door, no doubt it would have been more if Adrian had been off work longer or in Hospital longer. Either way Adrian was very happy with the service.

There use to be a link on the North Glos website, hidden in the message board, but that has been revamped recently and a search may not find it.

Kev

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by skidlids]

[NBs996]

Found it kev... Combined Insurance Company of America

Linky thing here... http://www.combinedeurope.com/uk/

n

[deej]

right guys

whats the link for new era please

sounding good with the costs coming down already !!!!!!! :burn:

[NBs996]

http://www.neweramcc.org

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by NBs996]

[deej]

cheers nick have found it and am currently printing off the relevant application forms

see ya soon

:eureka: