Flaking rockers - is it really THAT common?

[hogfisch]

Hi all,

Being new to 748 ownership, one of the things i keep on seeing mentioned is flaking rockers. I just wanted to know how common a problem this is.

As I understand it, providing you can provide a copy of the service history, Ducati UK will replace the parts (but not the labour) FOC. My questions are:

1. Does the history have to have been by a main Ducati dealer and not an independent?
2. Is this something I should be worrying about when my next service comes in 4k miles time or should I just get on with riding the bike?

Cheers

Hogfisch

[Harv748]

Depends on several things...

Basically, if you own one of the 748/9** variants, you need to get them checked at the next service. If the bike is still in its warranty period then you will need to get ot done at an authorised dealer to mantain the warranty...if its an older model and not in warranty then you can take it anywhere you like!

Specifically ask for it to be done, even if it is not on the planned service schedule. It may cost you a few pennies more for the check (say an hour or twos labour, as to do it properly they have to pull the cams), but it will give you a definitive answer either way as to if they are shagged or not.

If they are...they need replacing (although you can get them recoated by some specialists if you want to go down that route), and can prove costly if you need a few doing.

As for if Ducati UK will pay for the parts, I think they look at each individual case on its own. I think its a case of keep on knocking on their door or shouting down the phone at them and they will get the message and 'perhaps' reach a compromise with the owner. It does to a degree depend on the age of the bike/service history etc...

One thing at a time...get them checked and see if they are OK or not...then decide on a plan of action!

And to put your mind at rest, my previous bike was a 1997 748 bp with 16,000 miles and it never had an issue with the rockers.

[Edited on 13-1-2005 by Harv748]

[hogfisch]

Thanks for the advice Harv. I noticed in another thread that you are from Abingdon. Whereabouts as I am on Peachcroft and you don't see too many Dukes around here?

[Harv748]

LOL ...no way...I used to live on Peachcroft (just off Wick Close), but now live south of 'the Ock'...just off Mill road.

The only other Duke I've seen about Peachcroft was down off Pagisters (Waxes I think)...I think that was a monster. Was that you?

Funny thing was, when I saw you post about getting your 748, as soon as I saw the photo I thought to myself that looks just like where I used to live:lol:

If its dry, I'm out for a blast on Saturday if you want. I might go over to see Mike at Robsom Racing (just outside Stratford, about 40 mins), DSC member and allround good chap, to get some new tyres fitted. He'll be able to point you in the right direction suspension wise also?



[Edited on 13-1-2005 by Harv748]

[hogfisch]

Bizarre - the Monster down Waxes was me. Don't suppose you are the chap I used to see down Waxes Close on the 748, possibly visiting a chap called Dustin?

BTW thanks for the invite. Dave Woods is doing my suspension tomorrow and am house hunting on Saturday (not in Abingdon for much longer)

[Harv748]

LOL...yep, that was me.

Don't really know Dustin that well (hes a friend of a friend), but went to see him about buying a trailer off him.

Keep an eye on the rideouts section, as the Oxford gang (of which there are a few) have a rideout on the first Sunday of every month, as well as riding down to the Hants meet on the second Sunday of the month. Also during the summer a few of the lads get up to Foxes on Monday evenings for a natter.

And, if your not yet, get your membership paid up and then get your name down for the DSC trackday at Cadwell Park...:sing:

[hogfisch]

Funny how we take more notice of things as soon as a Ducati is involved!

Often up at Fox's at weekends and Monday nights in the summer. I would have undoubtedly been lusting over your bike at some point!

[antonye]

Ducati Sporting Club Message Board - not just a technical forum but also a place to make friends :lol:

[moto748]

I'd be interested to hear responses to this.
Of course, a professional who sees many bikes is in the best position to judge how commonplace it is. Obviously "it all depends", on pattern of use, frequency of oil change, whether the engine's been ranted from cold, etc etc.

Also I'd be interesting now whether, as is claimed with the rectifiers, that "later is better". I seem to recall Shazaam posting that the rockers were re-designed in 2001? This may not even have been the first re-design for all I know.

Anyone had the problem on a 999/749 yet? Or has better lubrication provision solved the problem on the testeretta engines?

[rockhopper]

I dont believe its any of those things that cause the problem. Its a simple design fault with unsutable materials and insuficient lubrication. My ST4 needed 3 rockers at 18,000 miles.

[Mr_S]

Mine's being done next week, I've also got 2 spare late model low mileage complete heads (748E) which are being cannibalised for rockers if required. I bought them specifically for the rockers as I believe they're £45 for openers and £75 for closers (+VAT) and these heads were offered at a reasonable price.

Whatever's left over will be up for sale afterwards.

[rockhopper]

£80 + for openers which are the ones that go. Closers hardly ever go unless the opener danages the cam so badly that it takes out the closer as well.

[Mr C]

Just took my 1999 996 to Nelly for a 12k service and it needed 4 Closers & 1 Opener.

[nelly]

The rockers are still a problem. They do seem less frequent as the newer rockers go in as replacements though.
I think there have now been 7 or 8 part number revisions, so it's something that has been evolving.................
Mr S, they are a little more expensive than your prices though. £90 and £100 are closer to the mark for openers and closers. They've gone up again a little to as the 2005 prices kick in.

I think the key to preserving them, from an owners point of view, is to firstly let the bike warm up properly. Don't even get on it until the temp. gauge has moved. This is more about getting the oil to the heads as it can take time. Sigma have documented a test where it took 90 seconds before a feed reached the heads.
The temp gauge rule is purely an indicator to use to be sure it's had this time to get the juices flowing.
The other thing to watch is that the tickover, on the fast idle button, is not too high. I try and get it as low as is possible providing it will start from cold. If the tickover is too high, then at 2500rpm you'll bash the rockers, without oil, 1500 times more in the 90 seconds rather than if the tickover was 1500 rpm. Get it off fast idle as soon as is possible to. This can only help.
One thing that makes me cringe more than anything else is the Ducati owner who starts his bike in a crowded car park, and then proceeds to treat everyone to the Ducati symphony. Revving the nuts off it. Sounds great, but he WILL regret it.

The oil can, obviously, have a dramatic effect to. Only use good quality synthetic oil. I only use, as do others, 15W/50. Ducati recommend 10W/40, which although will flow better from cold, will also run to the sump quicker when hot, when you turn the engine off. The thinking is that the 15W will leave more "residual" lubrication over the rocker faces for the next cold start. Personally, I go along with that thinking also.
The other advantage of the 15W/50 is that oil pressure will remain good at high temps. but that's another story.

I've not found anywhere in the UK doing resurfaced rockers. There are a few treatments available that prolong the life, but personally, I'm not convinced by these yet. The most reputable that I know to is the treatment offered by Sigam Performance.
I'm looking at some from Germany soon, hopefully, that if good enough I will use.
I've also got a couple of ideas to solve the slow feed to the heads from a cold start. But these need work and testing before I even think about putting them up for retail.................

The keys are to let it warm up, let the oil get to the heads without revving it too high and use good oil. Do that and you've done all you can. It does work. there are good mileages on some 4V bikes. Mines got 18K+ on it and hasn't had one rocker yet.

[Mr_S]

Originally posted by nelly
Mr S, they are a little more expensive than your prices though. £90 and £100 are closer to the mark for openers and closers. They've gone up again a little to as the 2005 prices kick in.


Glad I've got some spares in then...... :)

[HellOnWheels]

Just a newbie question.... what happens if the rockers are bad?:puzzled:

[nelly]

The rockers are supplied and designed with a chrome plated "wearing" face. It's this chrome surface, where it contacts the cam lobes that "flakes", or completely wears through.
When this happens, the rocker base material wears away and the clearances open up. The base material also starts to wear away at the cam lobes.
Result is, that if left, not only will the rockers be junk but also the cams. The it REALLY gets expensive :sniff:

[Shazaam!]

The Testastretta engines have shorter oil galley passages to reduce the time it takes for the oil to reach the rockers, plus incorporate the 2001 redesign of the rockers themselves.

To my knowledge there have no reports of flaking rockers in Testastretta engines.

Does anyone know of any?

[rockhopper]

Shall we collect a big bag of them and take them back to the factory with us next week?

[HellOnWheels]

I have a 2001 748R (red ofcourse :bouncy: ) , does that mean that I not will encounter this problem?

[nelly]

I seem to recall hearing of a couple of 'Stretta motors going but very early on in it's life. 996R/998 age.......... haven't heard of any since though.

2001??............less likely but I'd never say never. Always let the motor warm up properly.