View Full Version : Everybody loves a knowall ...
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:15
The challenge for the 28 days of February... should you choose to accept it, is to pose tricky questions to our self-appointed panelists. That includes as a matter of right, NBS, Skidlids, Shazaam, Nelly and anyone that generally takes the trouble to post replies to peoples questions on the board.
They can be mechanical, historical, geographical ... they have to be clean, healthy, suitable for Ducatisti consumption.
The winner will be the expert that manages to post the most convincing (may not be correct, but must be convincing) replies.
The prize? The title of DUCATINERD? I'll work on the prize angle. The clock's ticking as of NOW!
Well, midnight but I'm not staying up that late
:lol:
antonye
31-Jan-2005, 23:17
So what's the first question then?
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:19
Antonye. Re-read the post. Post a Question for the panel, not a question about a question ...
It's a struggle having Essex boys in our midst :frog::devil::frog:
antonye
31-Jan-2005, 23:20
So what is the first question then? :frog:
come on antony old chap, keep with the plot!
I know, you're still recovering from the excitement of you're nice little snipe on ebay earlier but that's not really gonna cut it with ruth!
kwikbitch
31-Jan-2005, 23:23
How can we teach Redruth to appreciate and grasp the understanding of how a desmo, either two valve or four valve works...AND get her to love a naked Ducati????:D;)
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:24
As an aside, I would like to point out that I bought 3 litres of wine in a wine box today. The theory was (according to my abstemious daughter) that I would not be tempted to drink a whole bottle, once opened, because psychologically I could stop after a couple of glasses.
It's not working ... Just topped up my glass for the 5th time. And I have to work tomorrow.
Eeeekkkk
:devil::D
Rattler
31-Jan-2005, 23:24
Why is there only one monopolies and mergers commission?
electricsheep
31-Jan-2005, 23:25
Why did the chicken cross the road ?
Originally posted by kwikbitch
...AND get her to love a naked Ducati????:D;)
careful kb, after 5 glasses she could get the wrong idea!
Pleeeeeeeeezzzzz can i ask the first question ruthie???
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:26
Originally posted by kwikbitch
How can we teach Redruth to appreciate and grasp the understanding of how a desmo, either two valve or four valve works...AND get her to love a naked Ducati????:D;)
You can't. Bl00dy good question though, Lisa.
I'm completely blonde when it comes to engines - albeit I'm not blonde. But I should have been :lol::lol::lol:
I don't think I'd have had more fun though :sing::frog:
PS No offence to blondes who, in my experience, are fairly bright, generally, but not always. :bouncy::bouncy:
antonye
31-Jan-2005, 23:27
I think you all missed the point of my first question :lol:
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:31
Originally posted by Rattler
Why is there only one monopolies and mergers commission?
Good question but not really Ducaticentric, is it, Lord Rattler?
Please direct your questions to the house - the club....
(in other words, no bl00dy idea, it just is, ok?) :frog:
Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while????????
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:33
Originally posted by antonye
I think you all missed the point of my first question :lol:
Essex goes subtle :o
Not an option, really, is it Antonye :puzzled::devil::frog::lol:
antonye
31-Jan-2005, 23:34
I'm not from Essex though :P
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:35
Originally posted by madmav
Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while????????
This is more like it. Thanks Mav. Getting in the spirit .... :D
Actually, my 996 bip doesn't. So the question could be considere a bit suspect/biased. Let's see what anwers crop up.
Waiting ....
Well mav's question is easy, but obviously the quiz don't start 'til tomorrow so I can't offer my answer yet...
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:41
Originally posted by antonye
I'm not from Essex though :P
:lol::lol::lol:
Everyone from Essex says that. I used to say it myself. Lived there (loughton) for 11 years. Never admitted it, mind you. Hertfordshire born and bred, me.
Originally posted by Redruth
Originally posted by madmav
Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while????????
This is more like it. Thanks Mav. Getting in the spirit .... :D
Actually, my 996 bip doesn't. So the question could be considere a bit suspect/biased. Let's see what anwers crop up.
ok ruth to explain !
when they run with open pipes and sponge filter, chip etc etc
what happens , and i know 3 or 4 bikes that do it!
if you ride it hard "no problem"
but if you cruise and then get on the gas in a high gear they seem to splutter b4 they get up and go!
as if they have bogged down and may have flooded a bit!
and then they clear!
maybe on the track it's not noticed but on the road i know of several people who have noticed the same thing!
mav
Waiting .... ;)
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:46
Originally posted by NBs996
Well mav's question is easy, but obviously the quiz don't start 'til tomorrow so I can't offer my answer yet...
Give us a little insight to your answer, Nickie.
I'm thinking there could be some REALLY obscure and VERY useful answers come out of this. We're rifling through the minds of real experts here. Looking for genius. Admittedly, in some pretty unlikely quarters but I bet there'll be dozens of incredibly useful facts that people expose given half a chance.
I've been completely amazed at how much people know since I joined this club and I'm just trying to work the possibly amusing, possibly trivial, forum to showcase that knowledge.
So, Nick, get serious and be ready to answer some tricky ones ;)
ericthered40
31-Jan-2005, 23:48
Originally posted by madmav
Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while????????
Every singer clears their throat before hitting a high note
:rodent:
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:53
Originally posted by ericthered40
Originally posted by madmav
Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while????????
Every singer clears their throat before hitting a high note
:rodent:
Nil points for purely emotional, not backed up with any concrete facts, answers, Blacky.
:D
Originally posted by Redruth
Give us a little insight to your answer, Nickie.
I'm thinking there could be some REALLY obscure and VERY useful answers come out of this. We're rifling through the minds of real experts here. Looking for genius. Admittedly, in some pretty unlikely quarters but I bet there'll be dozens of incredibly useful facts that people expose given half a chance.
I've been completely amazed at how much people know since I joined this club and I'm just trying to work the possibly amusing, possibly trivial, forum to showcase that knowledge.
So, Nick, get serious and be ready to answer some tricky ones ;)
Well, if you want to do this properly, it's quite a technical answer. Not very easy to understand after 8 glasses of red, so I think a mere 'insight' would only cause you to crack open that last bottle.
So you'll have to wait 'til day 1 for a proper explanation of this phenomenon!
Redruth
31-Jan-2005, 23:58
Did I mention I'm not a patient woman, Nick?
And I haven't actually had 8 glasses ... yet.
This was a v. bad idea. "Wine box" ... what kind of marketing genius thought that up then :lol::lol:
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 00:03
And Nick, Skidlids, Shazaam, Nelly et al. Serious answers essential to the ethics of this 'game'.
Hopt to get some Newbies posting. They'll be totally impressed by the awesome knowledge of people on this site.
I shall be operating the 'bump' strategy to keep it in 'today's posts' if it gets a bit stale.
And I am still considering the prize ...
It may have to be something to do with Desmo Due but we'll see.
I'm prepared to put some dosh up for it ... maybe a prepaid trackday, or a 5 year subscription to DSC ...
In the regious of £100 anyway so PAY ATTENTION ... I may be skint now but I used to be rich and I haven't quite got used to the new rules yet :P:lol::lol:
Then I think you need to start a daily thread for each question ruth.
And I know I have the answer to to this one so I look forward to my first point tomorrow :D
[quote]Originally posted by Redruth
And Nick, Skidlids, Shazaam, Nelly et al. Serious answers essential to the ethics of this 'game'.
And I am still considering the prize ...
It may have to be something to do with Desmo Due but we'll see.
I'm prepared to put some dosh up for it ... maybe a prepaid trackday, or a 5 year subscription to DSC ...
Ruth i dont think the prize should be for DEsmo due!!
no offence to guy/gals doing it!
I personally think the prize has already been won anyway;)
without taking anything away from nelly nbs skids etc etc !
that guy shazzam, who puts his all into his answers deserves a nice DSC plaque sending across the water, for his outstanding contribution;);)
just my opinion...........mav
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 00:25
Originally posted by madmav
[quote]Originally posted by Redruth
And Nick, Skidlids, Shazaam, Nelly et al. Serious answers essential to the ethics of this 'game'.
And I am still considering the prize ...
It may have to be something to do with Desmo Due but we'll see.
I'm prepared to put some dosh up for it ... maybe a prepaid trackday, or a 5 year subscription to DSC ...
Ruth i dont think the prize should be for DEsmo due!!
no offence to guy/gals doing it!
I personally think the prize has already been won anyway;)
without taking anything away from nelly nbs skids etc etc !
that guy shazzam, who puts his all into his answers deserves a nice DSC plaque sending across the water, for his outstanding contribution;);)
just my opinion...........mav
If I'm donating the prize, I'll decide whether it's been won or not.
I agree, Mav. Shazaam puts HUGE content into his replies. They are almost too detailed. When he gets to grips with a reply there is no stone unturned.
However, I'm the self-appointed judge in this and I shall be 100% objective. In my opinion, at least. :lol:
whoops slap the back of my legs !!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:
sorry:(
Oh dear, 16 minutes to go ...
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 00:57
Are you still awake Nick?
I'm looking for inspring, heartfelt, technically accurate responses, here. I'm not admitting to any front runners at this stage. But I am judge and jury and there is nothing like healthy competition to bring out the best/worst in people. So Nicholas, When you are Ready, In Your Own Time.
5 minutes and counting ...:frog:
Hmmm... might wait a bit, and see what rubbish other people post.
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 01:08
Originally posted by NBs996
Hmmm... might wait a bit, and see what rubbish other people post.
Being a tease is never attractive, Nick.
I was about to start a new thread with the scores on ... based on the fact that I would have awarded you 5 points for your top notch anticipated answer. 100 points wins. However, you have bug*ered that.
:flame::devil::frog:
Shazaam!
01-Feb-2005, 01:52
Ok, OK, I'll play ...
All 996's came with dual injectors including the 1999 model. Prior to the 996, only the SP and SPS bikes have dual injectors. But those other bikes have the larger P8 computer which is capable of firing the injectors sequentially meaning the second injector only comes into play when RPMs go up.
The 996 is controlled by the smaller 1.6M computer which is incapable of firing the injectors sequentially. So the bike does not run well with both of them firing at the same time all the time. According to FIM, dual injectors are not needed unless you're making more than 120HP, and have developed a single injector chip for the 996.
Read more about it here:
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/996eproms2.html
This is a quote from FIM's site:
"We have two UltiMaps for the 996 Biposto '99/2000 model. There have been many problems with these models spitting on low throttle or cruise at low speeds. We have finally made a chip which cures the problem (type UM222), but requires that one injector be disconnected from each cylinder. This is because the 996 has two injectors hard-wired in the harness and we can't switch one off like we can with the 996SPS or early 888 computers. The benefit is that the single injector spits more cleanly at low durations than two injectors do ( because they have only half the time each) and idle and low throttle repsonse is heaps better. We remapped a 996 with this mod and the difference is incredible. We do sell a twin injector verison of the same chip (type UM221), but in most cases the UM222 works better, and is worth the effort."
ericthered40
01-Feb-2005, 02:17
Roger from chelmsford has a pro v twins 996 with a full monty tune on 50mm termis we do like to tinker and were confused to find only Two injectors connected and the other Two taped up
runs nice and sweet
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 09:08
Oh good, glad you're playing Shazaam - this will take the pages into the double digits
:lol:
Later today (if I get time at work, if not, this evening) I shall be posting the following:-
The Prizes = I've come up with 5
The Judges - I don't think I'm necessarily capable of recognising the depths of nerdiness you lot can go to so I'll be needing some help. Initial thoughts, Lizzie and CK (who have access to huge nerdy resources in their other halves but may be biased if Mike and Alan are playing), Dickieducati cos I know he has no chance of winning plus one possible other, whom I shall have to check with so I'll have to get back to that one. KB I'd ask you but I think you might be in with a chance!
:roll::sing:
rockhopper
01-Feb-2005, 09:24
I've got a question--how come the same two crews always get through to the final of the boat race?
Originally posted by Redruth
Oh good, glad you're playing Shazaam - this will take the pages into the double digits
:lol:
Later today (if I get time at work, if not, this evening) I shall be posting the following:-
The Prizes = I've come up with 5
The Judges - I don't think I'm necessarily capable of recognising the depths of nerdiness you lot can go to so I'll be needing some help. Initial thoughts, Lizzie and CK (who have access to huge nerdy resources in their other halves but may be biased if Mike and Alan are playing), Dickieducati cos I know he has no chance of winning plus one possible other, whom I shall have to check with so I'll have to get back to that one. KB I'd ask you but I think you might be in with a chance!
:roll::sing:
:o moi??????
and AK doesnt get on the forum - cos I dont let him!!!!!:devil:
C:saint: happy to be referee with rolling pin!!!!:lol:
Are you sober yet ruth?
And i'd like to lodge a protest. Not sure why yet, but i'll think of something :frog:
I should have my answer to Q1 ready at lunch time... i have to go make a couple of references in the company library just to make sure some facts are right. But be ready, cos i think the real cause of this "stutter" will suprise most people, even the very knowledgable shazaam! :o
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 10:31
Originally posted by NBs996
Are you sober yet ruth?
And i'd like to lodge a protest. Not sure why yet, but i'll think of something :frog:
I should have my answer to Q1 ready at lunch time... i have to go make a couple of references in the company library just to make sure some facts are right. But be ready, cos i think the real cause of this "stutter" will suprise most people, even the very knowledgable shazaam! :o
I'm as sober as I need to be to drive a desk, mate! :P
The Library :o:o:o
If you set the standard this high you'll be very hard to beat, Nick!
However, Shazaam is already streets ahead of you as at 9.30 this morning. Still, day 1 and I'm sure there'll be dozens of toe curlingly technical posts to plough through by 28th February.
Hoping to get a few as yet unexposed nerds playing along too. ;):D:devil:
Well ok ruth, so as not to dissappoint you further, i've put my career on the line and scived off work for 15 mins to complete my answer. What was the question again?? Oh, I remember...
"Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while?"
The scientific answer:
Since I work in the petrochemical engineering design and consultancy business, this isn't too difficult a question, but let's try to explain it in layman's terms...
This problem(?) is such a finely balanced chemical reaction that it only tends to affect the more highly tuned engines which demand nothing short of perfection. So and if your bike is doing it then you've good reason to be proud of your stead!
It's actually not "missing a beat" initially, it's to do with the phenomenon of the suns rays drawing streams of heavy-metal gasses as they pass through the atmosphere of the planet Mercury (have you noticed it doesn't happen at night?).
This metallic rich air, if drawn into the cylinders in large enough quantities (like when opening the throttle quickly), causes a heavier air content in a single combustion which changes the atomic structure of the metalic atoms and acts like a magnet to oxygen drawing most, if not all, of the oxygen from the airbox in one go. When the airbox "recharges" with fresh air then all is fine again and the combustion cylces can return to their rythm of the steady cruise.
Now here's the twist...
It's probably more likely to happen with mav's bike because of the lack of salt in the air where he lives in the midlands; since the salty sea air on the coast, when mixing with the metallic gasses, actually forms a chemical imbalance at several different temperature ranges of the inlet tracts preventing too much oxygen being affected by this magnetic pull - it works in a similar sort of way to reversing the poles on a magnet.
Geographic location obviously depends on the wind direction, but living on the south coast means it happens with my bike very rarely due to the common south-westerly winds bringing in the sea air.
nb
:D
[Edited on 1-2-2005 by NBs996]
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 10:58
Wow, very clear and totally explanatory. Well done Nick.
I'm going to have to keep a running total of who's ahead at the end of each day! :eureka:
Originally posted by NBs996
Well ok ruth, so as not to dissappoint you further, i've put my career on the line and scived off work for 15 mins to complete my answer. What was the question again?? Oh, I remember...
"Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while?"
The scientific answer:
Since I work in the petrochemical engineering design and consultancy business, this isn't too difficult a question, but let's try to explain it in layman's terms...
This problem(?) is such a finely balanced chemical reaction that it only tends to affect the more highly tuned engines which demand nothing short of perfection. So and if your bike is doing it then you've good reason to be proud of your stead!
It's actually not "missing a beat" initially, it's to do with the phenomenon of the suns rays drawing streams of heavy-metal gasses as they pass through the atmosphere of the planet Mercury (have you noticed it doesn't happen at night?).
This metallic rich air, if drawn into the cylinders in large enough quantities (like when opening the throttle quickly), causes a heavier air content in a single combustion which changes the atomic structure of the metalic atoms and acts like a magnet to oxygen drawing most, if not all, of the oxygen from the airbox in one go. When the airbox "recharges" with fresh air then all is fine again and the combustion cylces can return to their rythm of the steady cruise.
Now here's the twist...
It's probably more likely to happen with mav's bike because of the lack of salt in the air where he lives in the midlands; since the salty sea air on the coast, when mixing with the metallic gasses, actually forms a chemical imbalance at several different temperature ranges of the inlet tracts preventing too much oxygen being affected by this magnetic pull - it works in a similar sort of way to reversing the poles on a magnet.
Geographic location obviously depends on the wind direction, but living on the south coast means it happens with my bike very rarely due to the common south-westerly winds bringing in the sea air.
nb
:D
[Edited on 1-2-2005 by NBs996]
You left out the bit about standing on one leg!
:lol:
Actually, my 996 bip had the stutter as well and it is down to the twin injectors. Neil Spalding, as part of his 996 bip racer "Grunter" spec does the single injector mod with the FIM chip. I had Neil's full monty done and the grunter spec at the same time and my bike is fine now.
In fact, it's more than fine. I would suggest it goes harder than most 996's without headwork etc. Check out what Neil does in the Grunter here (http://www.sigmaperformance.com/ducati996bipracer.html)
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 11:29
Just had U2U from Dickieducati to say he agrees to help judge but was a bit confused by the competition.
In case there are others out there who don't understand, this is how it's supposed to work:
1. Post a question, any question, as easy or difficult to answer as you like but BIKE related. (Ducati, obviously)
2. Wait for replies to be posted.
3. At the end of the month, the prize will go to the person who has displayed the greatest depth of knowledge but who has also made the greatest effort to answer as many of the questions as possible. So to win you really have to be logging on to the board regularly, if not 28 days in a row.
Hope that's a bit clearer now.
:sing::sing::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:
748mart
01-Feb-2005, 11:40
This is a very good point NBS996, but I think Madmav should check the airbox seal with the tank, I believe a methane buildup behind the tank which is leaking into the airbox causing the rich running when the throttle is opened. If Mav can't fix the seal then a change of diet maybe the best cure. Alternatively you could weaken the fuel mixture & take advantage of the methane.
I particularly like this quote from Neil in the article I listed above on the Grunter spec.
"you may have 'only' 120bhp, but you have it all the time……….."
I go back and read that every now and then when I'm thinking of selling mine and getting a 998R. Then I remember how much money I've spent on the 996 ...... then I go and lay down ...
Originally posted by madmav
Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while????????
Well, here's an alternative not-quite-by-the rules-that-were-described-but-that-has-never-stopped-me-before answer ...
Actually what you are describing is quite common to many bikes, and it's usually associated with cruising at a throttle opening and rev range that is just 'below' a lean portion of the engine's setup - so - when you open the throttle, the mixture goes lean and the engine stumbles. On a carbed bike you might raise the needle, on an injected bike you need to go see Sigma :burn:
Why when you dial a wrong number is it never engaged?
This question of course only relates to ringing Ducati dealers so as to qualify for Ruths guidelines.:D
Originally posted by BDG
Why when you dial a wrong number is it never engaged?
This question of course only relates to ringing Ducati dealers so as to qualify for Ruths guidelines.:D
But if the line's engaged, how d'you now it's not the wrong number??
next mind blowing Question!!!!!!!!!!
why is most people take their bike in to have suspension/ride height ajustment sorted, only to then re-tension their chain a week later and throw the whole settings out again:smug::smug::smug::smug::smug::smug::smug:
psychlist
01-Feb-2005, 13:17
Originally posted by madmav
Why do 996 bips seem to develop a stumble/missfire,when getting back on the gas after they have been cruising on low revs /high gears for a while????????
Hmmm, velly intellesting :cool:
Zerre are two pozzibilities here, eizer you're bike has developed a metaphysical disturbance in ze logic circuits causing a temporal distortion to your olfactory communication interface manifesting itself as a vocal stutter or "cough" when you twist your right wrist
or
Zer is a conditional response trigger reacting in your digestive processing whilst undergoing lower frequency mastication rates causing an abnormally hypotensive reflux towards your upper cardio-pulmonary void resulting in a high rate of turn in your right upper body extending to the fingers. Hence you're opening the throttle too quickly for the fuel injection to respond fast enough to match the increased air flowing to the cylinders. and causing a misfire.
Hope this helps resolve all your problems.
Next!
next mind blowing Question!!!!!!!!!!
why is most people take their bike in to have suspension/ride height ajustment sorted, only to then re-tension their chain a week later and throw the whole settings out again
waiting ,,,,,, mav
748mart
01-Feb-2005, 13:22
It proves to your mates you're riding the bike to it's limits.
Originally posted by madmav
next mind blowing Question!!!!!!!!!!
why is most people take their bike in to have suspension/ride height ajustment sorted, only to then re-tension their chain a week later and throw the whole settings out again
waiting ,,,,,, mav
psychlist
01-Feb-2005, 13:25
Originally posted by madmav
next mind blowing Question!!!!!!!!!!
why is most people take their bike in to have suspension/ride height ajustment sorted, only to then re-tension their chain a week later and throw the whole settings out again:smug::smug::smug::smug::smug::smug::smug:
Because they haven't got a scotoiler!
Its a very rarely known fact that the fitting of a scotoiler automatically sets the suspension correctly regardless of which bike, your weight, riding style or road conditions! Scotoiler themselves have been aware of this fact for many years but dare not publicise the fact for fear of reprisals from suspension tuners the world over. Last year, when a famous scandinavian gentleman discovered the secret to Scotoilers success, there ensued a tremendous cloak and dagger legal battle surpassed in it's ferocity only by the invasion of Iraq. Only now has the dust begun to settle on this best forgotten episode in motorcycle technological breakthroughs!
:cool:
Mart sensible answers please !!!!!!
or i'm not gonna get both of my Brain cells to coincide again and think up these realy hard Questions for you to answer:lol::lol::lol:
748mart
01-Feb-2005, 13:51
Although it's very questionable, I am attempting to prove I am not a nerd. Oh Ok I am a nerd so will answer sensibly in future.
Originally posted by madmav
Mart sensible answers please !!!!!!
or i'm not gonna get both of my Brain cells to coincide again and think up these realy hard Questions for you to answer:lol::lol::lol:
A question which is still unanswered even by Ducati dealer (including Ducati UK)
error 2.1 - Pressure Sensor short circuit to power supply
Exactly what the xxxx does that mean?
('spose you could ask the same question of quite a few other Ducati error descriptions)
... as long as you do abide by the rules and expect me to provide my judge input on the basis of 'it sounds plausible' rather than 'right answer'.
Oh, and Michael isn't what I'd call a nerd. Doesn't do much fiddling himself these days (I reckon the project bike that's not moved from the back of the garage for some years will have to wait for him to retire). Neil at Sigma's only a mile away after all....
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 14:54
Thanks Lizzie. I think anyone posting a wrong answer on here's gonna get shot down in flames anyway, so I don't think we need to worry about that aspect of it :lol:
So, that's my 3 fellow judges sorted. There's a fourth person I'm thinking of asking as a 'guest' judge but we'll see about that nearer judgment day. :devil:
electricsheep
01-Feb-2005, 17:20
Here's a question
For the shorter rider that wants to lower the rear ride height. Is it better to compensate by changing to the quicker steering head angle, or to also lower the front by changing the position of the forks in the triple clamps ?
how about just getting some moon boots.
thus rectifying your height inadequacies :smug:
Originally posted by electricsheep
Here's a question
For the shorter rider that wants to lower the rear ride height. Is it better to compensate by changing to the quicker steering head angle, or to also lower the front by changing the position of the forks in the triple clamps ?
there is a cheaper option - I shall call it number '3' option:
One can purchase boots with deeper soles & heels to make oneself taller, therefore not needing to adjust the goemetry of the bike.
A diet may also possibly help in your case Mr Sheep:D :devil:
However - should one like to make the bike turn in quicker, one could drop the forks through the yokes to lower the front a little.
One could however, take up riding pillion instead:P
- or even worse, buy an import hon..hon.... unmentionable word, which is lower to start with!:lol:
Is this a correct answer???:puzzled:
C
BANSHEE
01-Feb-2005, 17:34
My answer is to always park/stop at the kerb:rolleye:
Which kerb was that .... at Mallory..... Banshee:puzzled:
C
Originally posted by electricsheep
Here's a question
For the shorter rider that wants to lower the rear ride height. Is it better to compensate by changing to the quicker steering head angle, or to also lower the front by changing the position of the forks in the triple clamps ?
well ES, the short answer(pardon the pun) is Be afraid be very afraid!
messing about with the Rake , can seriously damage your health;)
I'm no expert in chassis geometry but i can tell you of the efects that it will bring on!
on the track i can see a distinct advantage to gettting the bike to (Turn in quicker)
but on the road it can realy have an adverse effect like make ing the bike very very twitchy on certain roads!!!!!
(be carefull) !!!!!!!!!!!!!
changing the ride height (by Lowering it for the size of your legs ) is a big NO NO...
as this can make the bike squat and give the efect of the front wheel skiping across the tarmack ie loss of traction!
this is a simplified answer !
Bring it on Shazzam
or nelly etc
for the indepth technical answer!.................mav;)
electricsheep
01-Feb-2005, 17:54
A diet may also possibly help in your case Mr Sheep:D :devil:
I find the extra weight helps compress the springs, bringing my feet closer to the ground :lol::lol::lol:
[Edited on 1-2-2005 by electricsheep]
Suspension and chassis geometry is a bit out of my league too, but common sense would suggest that what you do to one end you must also do to the other, just to keep the balance right. Like, if you drop the rear ride height an inch then you should do the same at the front.
Not sure if altering the steering will have any effect in compensating for a drop in rear height :puzzled:
To diverse just a little from the question, and maybe a little contradictory to mav's views (sorry mav!), but I really don't find the bike twitchy after changing to the steeper rake. The bike turns noticably quicker, and theoretically should be twitchy, but it just isn't! I wouldn't try it unless you've got a damper tho, and certainly not to compensate for the ride height.
Do what CK says - get platform boots!!
No Offence taken Nb's!!;)
hopefully we can all learn some things we don't know:D
i've been in the trade all my life and am still learning new things every day;) so c'mon guys bring it on:D
but just to make one point i think if you can get into the realms of linear measurment then suspension set up becomes a lot more understandable!!!
but it's way way beyond me:)
just my opinion:cool:
it's beyond me too!
i had a suspension guru round my gaff not so long ago to help me out and try'n teach me something. I described to him what the bike was doing and he 'tuned' it out for me... it worked too! Quite happy, was I :D
Happy, but still no wiser!!
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 18:25
Nick, you are far too wise already! :lol: You MUST be grateful that there are still some things in life that are a mystery even to you. :D
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 22:19
Ok, well in the absence of anything more challenging, I have a question. Why do my front brakes lock up in these circumstances:
1. Ride the bike on a cold winter's day.
2. Hose it off and put it in the garage
3. Next time I come to move it, I can't budge it.
4. Try to bump it up and down a bit and it and eventually manage to move it forward but it makes a horrible grinding noise.
5. Brake lever seems much stiffer for the first few miles but then eases up.
6. Is it safe to keep riding it when this happens?
This is a genuine question based on real facts. No names have been changed to protect anyone at all. :devil:
Ahem!
It's just a case of the wet causing a little corrosion between the disc and pads. Not sure why the lever should feel stiffer tho?
No problem to keep riding it.
Redruth
01-Feb-2005, 22:32
You've got this whole 'Teacher's Pet' thing going on haven't you Nick :D:D
Thanks for that. Is the corrosion anything to worry about, though? And which bit is corroding?
The iron content of the disc is turning rusty, and there'll be some metals in the friction material which might corrode in their own little way too.
It's only a tiny bit of surface rust and won't be a problem until it gets to the state where you can't free it, no matter how hard you try! Then you might have to take the callipers off (leaving the pads stuck to the discs) and then pry the pads off with your best serving spoon - but that's worst case scenario.
If it annoys you (more than I do), then dry it off as much as possible before putting bike to bed.
748mart
01-Feb-2005, 22:41
I would say that the caliper pistons are sticking.
Remedy: clean calipers & work pistons in & out until runing smooth.
As a postscript, it doesn't have to be wet to do this.
If left long enough, two different metal elements will corrode each other without the need for water. It's got something to do with the different electrostatic properties of metals at an atomic level but that probably won't be noticable unless you leave you bike so long that the next time you use it it's for a trip to collect your pension! And for you ruthie, that many many years away!
Originally posted by 748mart
I would say that the caliper pistons are sticking.
Remedy: clean calipers & work pistons in & out until runing smooth.
you refer to the stiffer lever action?
I would agree. Give that man a point!
Bionicle
01-Feb-2005, 22:56
@Redruth
What happens if a question cant be answerd ???
[Edited on 1-2-2005 by Bionicle]
rockhopper
01-Feb-2005, 23:21
If you change suspension setting to compensate for a shorter rider and then drop the forks through the yokes as well you will soon find you are running out of ground clearance. Better to get some foam taken out of the seat.
Of course, and obviously the ground clearance issue would be different depending on the bike.
But also, what would the effect be of the resulting lower centre of gravity?
With regard to the judges my question would be,
How many women does it take to judge a competition?:lol::lol:
skidlids
02-Feb-2005, 00:11
Originally posted by madmav
why is most people take their bike in to have suspension/ride height ajustment sorted, only to then re-tension their chain a week later and throw the whole settings out again
Sorry I didn't know most people did that
I naturally assumed everybody did what I do and adjust there own suspension and ride height using their own tools which they then re-employ when adjusting their chain.
You mean to tell me there is another method.
Nice answer from Shazaam on the twin injector 996Bips, the non sequential firing of the injectors is probably the real problem, the 1.6M ecu does not have the capabilities of the P8 ECU as well as somebody nicking the phase sensor off the Bip that you find on the Strada's, SP's and SPS's. May be a ECU that had afeedback from Lambda sensors is not far away, or is it here already as to dat I have only riden a 916 Strada, 748SP and my 916BP so I'm not sure how far things have moved on. My 998Hybrid is nearly ready to ride and although the 5.9m ECU can no doubt process a lot of data very quickly it still relies on a preprogramed map with no feedback.
I'm confused already :puzzled::o
now what's the question :P
skidlids
02-Feb-2005, 00:25
Originally posted by Redruth
1. Ride the bike on a cold winter's day.
2. Hose it off and put it in the garage
3. Next time I come to move it, I can't budge it.
4. Try to bump it up and down a bit and it and eventually manage to move it forward but it makes a horrible grinding noise.
5. Brake lever seems much stiffer for the first few miles but then eases up.
6. Is it safe to keep riding it when this happens?
The cast iron full floaters tend to rust when damp, this can be after they have been out in the rain, after you have washed it or as they have cooled in the garage and moisture in the air has condensed on them.
This can also effect the surface that mates with the bobbins between the disc and the carrier, which can take most of the float out of the disc. When the bike next goes out it can take a while for the rust in the bobbin area to wear away and allow full movement of the disc. When the disc is restricted in its floating ability it does not push the calliper pistons back in very far after braking, so next time you brake the pistons have a small amount of distance to travel making the lever travel less and giving a stiffer feel to the lever, ater riding for a while the discs will be moving/floating freely and as they rattle from side to side they push the calliper pistons futher back so then when you brake you need to move more fluid by pulling the lever futher, as it takes longer for the pistons to travel to take up the clearance between pad and disc the lever has a softer feel to it.
Sounds plausible to me
sparkin
02-Feb-2005, 00:26
Here`s one,If the back of your bike "squats" when accellerating,why,when you do a "burn-out" up against your garage wall (we`ve all done it,so you`re only lying to youself) does the the back of your bike rise?
skidlids
02-Feb-2005, 00:31
Load transference
Originally posted by skidlids
Originally posted by Redruth
1. Ride the bike on a cold winter's day.
2. Hose it off and put it in the garage
3. Next time I come to move it, I can't budge it.
4. Try to bump it up and down a bit and it and eventually manage to move it forward but it makes a horrible grinding noise.
5. Brake lever seems much stiffer for the first few miles but then eases up.
6. Is it safe to keep riding it when this happens?
The cast iron full floaters tend to rust when damp, this can be after they have been out in the rain, after you have washed it or as they have cooled in the garage and moisture in the air has condensed on them.
This can also effect the surface that mates with the bobbins between the disc and the carrier, which can take most of the float out of the disc. When the bike next goes out it can take a while for the rust in the bobbin area to wear away and allow full movement of the disc. When the disc is restricted in its floating ability it does not push the calliper pistons back in very far after braking, so next time you brake the pistons have a small amount of distance to travel making the lever travel less and giving a stiffer feel to the lever, ater riding for a while the discs will be moving/floating freely and as they rattle from side to side they push the calliper pistons futher back so then when you brake you need to move more fluid by pulling the lever futher, as it takes longer for the pistons to travel to take up the clearance between pad and disc the lever has a softer feel to it.
Sounds plausible to me
Totaly Agree!!!!!!!!:D
skidlids
02-Feb-2005, 00:36
Originally posted by madmav
Totaly Agree!!!!!!!!:D
Excellent
After all this biking thing is only a hobby to me
Mav cheque went in the post today
no worries kev!!
Thanks mate.
Think ive still got some bits and pieces left like 1 R/h Dp foot peg and hanger and 1 Dp type rear brake pedal! etc
Originally posted by Redruth
Ok, well in the absence of anything more challenging, I have a question. Why do my front brakes lock up in these circumstances:
1. Ride the bike on a cold winter's day.
2. Hose it off and put it in the garage
3. Next time I come to move it, I can't budge it.
4. Try to bump it up and down a bit and it and eventually manage to move it forward but it makes a horrible grinding noise.
5. Brake lever seems much stiffer for the first few miles but then eases up.
6. Is it safe to keep riding it when this happens?
This is a genuine question based on real facts. No names have been changed to protect anyone at all. :devil:
This can happen with stainless discs to, not just cast iron. I think your bike has the stainless rotors Ruth?
The cast are more prone, because they are ferrous, but the pads can suffer minor corrosion from damp and the scientific bit mentioned beforehand about disimilar metals reacting with each other also effects things.
Once you've freed the pads from the discs, have a look at the discs and you'll see the outline of the pads on the disc faces.
The grinding noise is from the pads rubbing over the now rough disc area where they were stuck. The surface of the pad has been "roughed up" where the corroded part was left on the disc face. As the pads are smoothed off again, and the disc face cleaned through use of the brakes, the noise will disappear.
Not too sure of the "stiff lever"............maybe it's just a feel thing whilst the pads are bedding down again?
I don't think it's sticky pistons though, as they'd be sticky all the while.........
It's not a real problem. The main thing'll be a slightly accelerated pad wear rate. Every time you break the pads free, you're ripping a layer from the pads rather than wearing them in the normal way.
If you wanted to prevent it, when you park it up or wash it, push the pads back in the calipers so they aren't touching the discs................................Just remember to pump the brakes a few time before you ride it again.
Maybe that last bit wasn't so clever :puzzled:
:rodent: "no 5hit Sherlock" :lol:
Steel is actually not a material in it's own right. It's the generic name for a group of ferrous metals principally composed of iron. So the majority content af steel is actually iron, which is, as we know, prone to rusting. In fact, most modern steels contain about 98% iron!
Stainless Steel.
Part of the manufacturing process for the type of steel we know as "stainless" is to introduce corrosion inhibiting elements (usually Chromium) into the process. This creates an alloy with, typically, the following elements:
Carbon: 0.03%
Manganese: 2%
Silicon: 1%
Chromium: 18-20%
Nickel: 8-12%
The rest is Iron.
So you see, whilst stainless steel is manufactured with corrosion inhibiting properties, it cannot be claimed to actually prevent corrosion altogether because this would depend upon the ammount of Chromium and the accuracy of the process. And nothing is perfect.
So this is why, as Nelly says, it can happen to steel discs too!
:frog:
I think it is a combination of corrosion & cold brake fluid the later makes the leaver feel woody & the pistons not return properly.
Chass.
Ruth, all these posts are bollox.
You're bike is simply upset that you put it to bed wet so it gets cold. Dry it off, get a garage heater and make sure it feels loved and this will never happen again.
Dr TP
Adjusting the chain on a 998 etc will indeed alter the ride height, however a 999 doesnt have this built in problem!! :P
Q1. Why is this benificial
Q2. is it A. clutch in Blip, gear down, clutch out; or B. clutch in, gear, blip, clutch out.
gasmanrus
02-Feb-2005, 18:45
bill, blipping the throttle takes the load off the gearbox when downchanging, you should feel the benifit when its timed right (it even suggests this in the owners manual of the 916!!)
the correct sequence is clutch in Blip, gear down, clutch out:)
(do i win £5?)
[Edited on 2-2-2005 by gasmanrus]
electricsheep
02-Feb-2005, 19:10
Originally posted by gasmanrus
bill, blipping the throttle takes the load off the gearbox when downchanging, you should feel the benifit when its timed right (it even suggests this in the owners manual of the 916!!)
the correct sequence is clutch in Blip, gear down, clutch out:)
(do i win £5?)
[Edited on 2-2-2005 by gasmanrus]
I may be wrong but I think the reason for blipping the throttle on a downshift is to match the engine revs to the gearbox which will be higher (as you have just downshifted) So I think the correct sequence is clutch in , gear down, blip, clutch out
An expert should be along..
gasmanrus
02-Feb-2005, 19:16
sheep, your right saying the engine speed needs to match the gearbox speed but as for the sequence
i think you may be wrong too:devil:
Keep throttle pinned, give the quickshifter a nudge, Roberts your mothers brother.
Now, where's a quickshifter catalog ...
:frog:
This is typical of women, to get men into a big ol ****in contest.... I of course know everything about everything but will not be drawn into this male bun fight :burn:
electricsheep
02-Feb-2005, 19:30
Originally posted by gasmanrus
sheep, your right saying the engine speed needs to match the gearbox speed but as for the sequence
i think you may be wrong too:devil:
Not sure it really makes that much difference, as it's all happening fairly quickly. As long as the clutch is in when you downshift and the revs match when the clutch is let out then the bike should be happy.
it's clutch in! blip ! down shift ! clutch out !
the reason we did it, was if you have ever driven an old HGV with a "crash " gear box , The blip of the throttle. A. brings up engine speed with the gear box speed Thus negating the shift!
road speed can alter this so if you get it all syncronized you can actualy down shift without using the clutch!!!!
electricsheep
02-Feb-2005, 19:32
Originally posted by tp-996
Keep throttle pinned, give the quickshifter a nudge, Roberts your mothers brother.
Now, where's a quickshifter catalog ...
:frog:
Remind me not to buy any bikes (with quickshifters) from you :P
Originally posted by electricsheep
Originally posted by tp-996
Keep throttle pinned, give the quickshifter a nudge, Roberts your mothers brother.
Now, where's a quickshifter catalog ...
:frog:
Remind me not to buy any bikes (with quickshifters) from you :P
:lol:
You know what I mean. Kick the gear lever when you've got a quickshifter installed etc ...
Originally posted by tp-996
Keep throttle pinned, give the quickshifter a nudge, Roberts your mothers brother.
Now, where's a quickshifter catalog ...
:frog:
on a downshift tony? Are you sure about that me old aussie fruit?
electricsheep
02-Feb-2005, 19:35
Originally posted by madmav
it's clutch in! blip ! down shift ! clutch out !
the reason we did it, was if you have ever driven an old HGV with a "crash " gear box , The blip of the throttle. A. brings up engine speed with the gear box speed Thus negating the shift!
road speed can alter this so if you get it all syncronized you can actualy down shift without using the clutch!!!!
For those HGV boxes I agree with you.
Originally posted by madmav
it's clutch in! blip ! down shift ! clutch out !
the reason we did it, was if you have ever driven an old HGV with a "crash " gear box , The blip of the throttle. A. brings up engine speed with the gear box speed Thus negating the shift!
road speed can alter this so if you get it all syncronized you can actualy down shift without using the clutch!!!!
In my experience of driving one of the Oz Army's old Mack wrecker trucks you had to whack the clutch in (yes I do mean whack) take it out of gear, let the clutch out, rev the anus off it, clutch in put in gear and clutch out again ....
Otherwise you just couldn't get the bugger in gear!
With bike's though I think Rob's (sheepylover) point is valid, it happens so quickly once you've got the clutch in (rev and downshift) that it doesn't really matter. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though ..
it's clutch in! blip ! down shift ! clutch out !
the reason we did it, was if you have ever driven an old HGV with a "crash " gear box , The blip of the throttle. A. brings up engine speed with the gear box speed Thus negating the shift!
road speed can alter this so if you get it all syncronized you can actualy down shift without using the clutch!!!!
Originally posted by NBs996
Originally posted by tp-996
Keep throttle pinned, give the quickshifter a nudge, Roberts your mothers brother.
Now, where's a quickshifter catalog ...
:frog:
on a downshift tony? Are you sure about that me old aussie fruit?
What are you changing down for? I want go faster, not slower!!
Tp that was known as "Double De Clutch" still used today on some big trucks!
but most are no syncro boxes;)
not sure what the proper reason for it is, but i do it to stop the back wheel working too hard against the engine. It can be good fun when you're playing about on the track getting the back to drift sideways into a corner but when I'm hard on the brakes in a straight line i'd rather not encourage the tyre to loose tractiona and waggle about!
Very tricky going down the box without the clutch... something i don't care to get to grips with, it just seems a bit abbusive!
Originally posted by tp-996
What are you changing down for? I want go faster, not slower!!
save me a spot in the gravel trap matey!! :lol:
Originally posted by madmav
Tp that was known as "Double De Clutch" still used today on some big trucks!
I drove that old Mack truck around on exercise for about two weeks, I had a left leg like the Governor of California after that!
Originally posted by NBs996
save me a spot in the gravel trap matey!! :lol:
I was planning on using you as the brake/block pass object mate.
Nothing personal you understand ... :devil:
[Edited on 2-2-2005 by tp-996]
A quickshifter aint realy rocket science!
it just cuts the ignition milli second and unloads drive thus negating the gear !
set up is very important thou as not to blow gear box to bits :D:D
When I go Clutch in, Blip, gear down, its so smooth but "Twist of the Wrist" says the bit about engine speed and recomends Clutch in, gear down, blip, clutch out......when I do this it no so smooth.
Thanks Bill O !!!
I rest my case :smug:
J ust trying to open one those boxes of whine Redruth but i'm buggerd if I can find were the hell to put the corkskrew.
Redruth
02-Feb-2005, 23:30
Right, just read through what's on here. Comments as of 21.423 pm
Who was the bloke who said it's typical for a woman to start a bun fight? You are disqualified :frog: Oh yeah, Chief ... you are out, mate!
Secondly, I always blip unless I'm going too slowly. I learnt this driving a porsche. You blip as you change down, match the revs, its soooo much smoother. Anyone who knows anything about driving high quality engines knows that.
Thirdly, Loverly to see you on here Skidywids. ;)
Keep it coming! :cool:
Ruth is there a prize for posting a Q
and answering other Q?????;)
Redruth
02-Feb-2005, 23:48
Mav. There's one prize. See the PRIZES thread. There MAY be a runner up prize but I'm determined not to be sidetracked with suggestions of how prizes should be awarded.
I think I now have 4 fellow judges. CK, Lizzie, CK, me and (tentatively) a guest judge. Also, I may have a bit of a celeb lined up for prizegiving which would be a sham as prizes will be awarded shortly after the result is announced but I'm trying to line up a bit of a celebrity prize giving on the first Desmo Due race meeting.
May cost me a bundle or may not come to fruition. We shall see. :ninja::ninja:
Redruth
02-Feb-2005, 23:51
Should have read
Lizzie
CK
DickieD
me
one pos. other
sorry
wine box to blame
AGAIN :devil:
ericthered40
03-Feb-2005, 01:33
? Cast Magnesium wheels.
1/ Do they suffer from internal corrosion
2/ If you dent them can you bash them strait
:puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzzled:::fro g:
skidlids
03-Feb-2005, 01:39
Yes and Yes, but bashing them round again is not adviseable
How long is the working life of a Mag wheel ???
Best you answer that one Shazaam, save me going and trying to look it up.
electricsheep
03-Feb-2005, 08:51
Blipping
At the end on a long 6th gear straight, going into a 2nd gear corner. Where would you blip ?
Before selecting 5th
Before selecting 4th
Before selecting 3rdh
Before selecting 2nd
As Selecting 2nd
After Selecting 2nd
Or some other time ?
For me it's Clutch in 5th,4th,3rd,(2nd and blip same time) clutch out
Also if you have a slipper do you bother blipping at all ?
Redruth
03-Feb-2005, 14:20
Originally posted by electricsheep
Blipping
At the end on a long 6th gear straight, going into a 2nd gear corner. Where would you blip ?
Before selecting 5th
Before selecting 4th
Before selecting 3rdh
Before selecting 2nd
As Selecting 2nd
After Selecting 2nd
Or some other time ?
For me it's Clutch in 5th,4th,3rd,(2nd and blip same time) clutch out
Also if you have a slipper do you bother blipping at all ?
If you're tapping down through the gears, surely you're only going to blip once just before you let the clutch out in 2nd?
I'd like to reiterate the question about the slipper clutch cos I'd quite like to get one as my biggest fear on the track is locking the back wheel and being spat off forwards!
:o
Either:
1 - to increase the engine speed to such an extent as to ease the meshing of gears when changing down so blip before change(i.e. the lower gear is teeth are moving faster than the previously selected gear teeth - layshaft and main shaft). Much like trying to grab onto the waltzers when they're already whizzing around, it's a damn site easier if you run around at a similar speed.
or
2 - The blip is required to notify the forward traffic of your intention to perform an overtaking manouevre, much like the flashing of headlight to notify other road users of your presence. Particularly effective when using termis
Not sure I'd be holding the clutch in with no throttle while going 6-5-4-3-2
Treat each gear change separately or by the time you get to 2nd the engine might've stalled.
Clutch-blip/click-clutch for each gear as speed reduces, that way the engine keeps closer to the desired rev range and you know you're in the right gear when you let the clutch out, and also the back-torque on the tyre helps it grip the tarmac rather than liftup or wiggle sideways.
Ruth, for slipper clutches your best explanation would be Neil's writeup on http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutch.html
[Edited on 3-2-2005 by NBs996]
skidlids
03-Feb-2005, 16:28
Ruth i'll keep it simple
SLIPPER CLUTCH WORTH EVERY PENNY when your on the track,
also very nice to have on the roads in winter, on the roads in the summer I could live with out it if I had to but i don't have to. Only got a standard 748R one in the 916 and have used it for racing, trackdays and road abuse.
As for downward gear changes, 3 at once with one blip would be nice when in the middle of a race, but doesn't usually work that way, High speed into a hairpin with late braking either trying to overtake or not get overtaken there can be alot going on and sometimes the down changes don't quite go righ
electricsheep
03-Feb-2005, 19:32
Originally posted by guest1
Either:
1 - to increase the engine speed to such an extent as to ease the meshing of gears when changing down so blip before change(i.e. the lower gear is teeth are moving faster than the previously selected gear teeth - layshaft and main shaft). Much like trying to grab onto the waltzers when they're already whizzing around, it's a damn site easier if you run around at a similar speed.
This is the bit I have a problem with, with the clutch in the engine is not attachd to the gearbox, so it cannot effect engaging the gear. I think this is a misconception based on old non syncromesh gearboxes that needed to be double clutched on a down shift.
electricsheep
03-Feb-2005, 19:39
Originally posted by NBs996
Not sure I'd be holding the clutch in with no throttle while going 6-5-4-3-2
Treat each gear change separately or by the time you get to 2nd the engine might've stalled.
Clutch-blip/click-clutch for each gear as speed reduces, that way the engine keeps closer to the desired rev range and you know you're in the right gear when you let the clutch out, and also the back-torque on the tyre helps it grip the tarmac rather than liftup or wiggle sideways.
Ruth, for slipper clutches your best explanation would be Neil's writeup on http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutch.html
[Edited on 3-2-2005 by NBs996]
If the bike is stalling while downshift multiple gears, then I would be looking at adjusting sometime on the engine. BTW 749's are prone to this and I am having it looked at on my own bike soon.
Engaging each gear on the way down the box makes for very busy braking on the track. However if it is working for you I would stick with it. It does not work well for me
Redruth
03-Feb-2005, 19:49
Oh god. I'm just sitting here in the office thinking I have soooo much to organise for this season and I can't do any of it till I move house (which I also have to organise, damn it)!
Having now made up my mind that the slipper clutch is essential, I need to get that sorted, along with the gearing changes. I also have to get hold of track fairings, a single seat (not to mention hugger which I still haven't bought although Keefer's on the case! :D). I need a trailer, I need to book and pay for several trackdays, some of which have to be with No limits so I can get coaching from WJB or Dave Lawson, and in the middle of all this I'm supposed to be passing 'masters level' exams. :o:o I'm feeling sick just thinking about all the stuff I haven't organised yet. :barfy:
Sorry, unhinged moment over. Back to the Questions
:burn:
Get it together Ruth!
Can you hear the box calling?
Redruth
03-Feb-2005, 19:53
[i]
Can you hear the box calling?
I'm not with you?
Very acceptable answer mr sheepychap.
The stalling is very unlikely, but it did happen to me just the once. Possibly something to do with the lighter flywheel not keeping enough inertia in the engine? Maybe the throttle stop needs turning up a little? Or a combination of both. Or maybe a big bit of chome off the rockers got stuck somewhere it shouldn't! :lol:
But it did make the bike very unstable at the back while it was trying to bump-start itself.
Initially the clutch on every gear was very busy and didn't work too well, but I stuck with it and now it's quite a slick operation which only uses half my brain cells, leaving the other one free to think about everything else!
But yay, do what works, sometimes there's no right or wrong.
Originally posted by Redruth
[i]
Can you hear the box calling?
I'm not with you?
The wine box ...
monstermob 998
03-Feb-2005, 20:06
Originally posted by tp-996
Ruth, all these posts are bollox.
You're bike is simply upset that you put it to bed wet so it gets cold. Dry it off, get a garage heater and make sure it feels loved and this will never happen again.
Dr TP
GET A CHEAP ELECTRIC LEAF BLOWER FROM ----ARGOS? WASH BIKE --BLOW WATER OFF -- JOB DONE
works for me
electricsheep
03-Feb-2005, 20:19
Originally posted by tp-996
Originally posted by Redruth
[i]
Can you hear the box calling?
I'm not with you?
The wine box ...
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
BTW when you get the slipper make sure you get the right type..
I'm sure one of the real experts will advise, but it's something to do with ramps and balls, sorry I mean ballbearings :D:D
[Edited on 3-2-2005 by electricsheep]
From memory of a previous post, which I can't find, there's two different types.
They both work on the principle of ramps in the clutch drum forcing the pressure plate to ride up under back-torque. One type has bearings separating the ramps, the other type doesn't.
I'd assume the bearings would make for a smoother and more consistent action, where the ramps w/o bearings would act different under varying temperatures. Simple physics.
Can someone correct me, or expand on that one please??
Redruth
04-Feb-2005, 00:33
Originally posted by monstermob 998
Originally posted by tp-996
Ruth, all these posts are bollox.
You're bike is simply upset that you put it to bed wet so it gets cold. Dry it off, get a garage heater and make sure it feels loved and this will never happen again.
Dr TP
GET A CHEAP ELECTRIC LEAF BLOWER FROM ----ARGOS? WASH BIKE --BLOW WATER OFF -- JOB DONE
works for me
Do you know, that's bloody marvellous. I have a leaf hoover/blower. I was gonna give it away. But of course, it could do that job. Flippin' 'eck. Fancy that big green useless piece of black & decker kit could actually do some good! I will try that tomorrow evening after riding into town.
Cheers, monstermob. :D:D
monstermob 998
04-Feb-2005, 08:04
thought of this when i was sat in car wash whilst haveing the car blow dried!!!!advantage is when you give your bike a spray with wd40 or what ever the water doesnt get trapped in behind the wd40 and the white deposits left by the water on your waxed paint work are history!!!;)
OK, another question, I have my own understanding of it, but lets see if 1. I am right/wrong 2. there's a far more plausible answer 3. complete tripe...
Dished plates in the clutch.... why?
Who cares, about all this...... the faster you go the bigger the smile :D
Never mind blip blip blop
Redruth,
I'm disqualified?
What about expanding this competition.........
Who's got the best avatar?........................................... KwickBitch?
Who's the richest?.......................................... ...............Lord Rattler?
Who's the funniest?......................................... ..............Dave W, Dibble?
Who winges the most?............................................. .....?????
Just a thought :rolleye:
Originally posted by jpmercer
OK, another question, I have my own understanding of it, but lets see if 1. I am right/wrong 2. there's a far more plausible answer 3. complete tripe...
Dished plates in the clutch.... why?
I'd've thought it would be to help keep them in line, stop them moving sideways. Cos if the offset slightly from central then the clutch would shake itself to bits!
What's your theory then JPM?
I didn't think of that.... mine would be proper engagement/disengagement of the clutch, adding an element of play into the clutch pack, but I have no facts or figures to back that up.
748mart
04-Feb-2005, 15:03
My guess is the dished plate provides a bit of 'springiness' to the clutch pack, smoother engagement, less squeal.
Shazaam!
04-Feb-2005, 15:06
Dished Clutch Plates
During acceleration the clutch is prevented from slipping by the frictional force between plates. The higher the torque output of the engine, the more frictional force that is required. In order to get more frictional force, you need more force to push the plates together. The force holding the plates together is determined by the compression of the clutch springs, which in turn, is controlled by the stiffness of the springs and the amount that they are compressed, i.e. the height of the clutch plate stack.
There are two values of frictional force that can exist between the clutch plates: static and sliding. The coefficient of static friction is always higher than the coefficient of sliding friction.
Smooth progressive clutch engagement requires that the force transition between sliding and static occur gradually, and this is why a curved dished plate is placed in the clutch plate stack.
When the clutch lever is released, the push-rod moves the pressure plate, which in turn moves the slipping plates together, transmitting increasingly higher torque to the rear wheel. At some point, the force between plates is sufficient to cause a transition between static and sliding and the difference in the two coefficient of friction results in an abrupt change in torque output. The clutch grabs suddenly.
To minimize this suddenness, a dished plate is added to the plate stack. A dished plate is essentially a spring that exerts a force between the plates when it becomes flattened so as to give a more progressive force between plates than can be achieved using the stiffer clutch springs.
Originally posted by chief
Who cares, about all this...... the faster you go the bigger the smile :D
Never mind blip blip blop
Redruth,
I'm disqualified?
What about expanding this competition.........
Who's got the best avatar?........................................... KwickBitch?
Who's the richest?.......................................... ...............Lord Rattler?
Who's the funniest?......................................... ..............Dave W, Dibble?
Who winges the most?............................................. .....?????
Just a thought :rolleye:
WHo's THE LEADER?????????????;)
Originally posted by chief
What about expanding this competition.........
Who's got the best avatar?........................................... KwickBitch?
Who's the richest?.......................................... ...............Lord Rattler?
Who's the funniest?......................................... ..............Dave W, Dibble?
Who winges the most?............................................. .....?????
avatar - Mogwai
richest - Lord Timothy
funniest - hrmm .. tough one .. have to think about this one
whinging - biting my tongue so hard it's nearly in two!
who is the leader? Il Duce!!! David Cook!!
Redruth
04-Feb-2005, 19:48
Originally posted by tp-996
Originally posted by chief
What about expanding this competition.........
Who's got the best avatar?........................................... KwickBitch?
Who's the richest?.......................................... ...............Lord Rattler?
Who's the funniest?......................................... ..............Dave W, Dibble?
Who winges the most?............................................. .....?????
avatar - Mogwai
richest - Lord Timothy
funniest - hrmm .. tough one .. have to think about this one
whinging - biting my tongue so hard it's nearly in two!
who is the leader? Il Duce!!! David Cook!!
Mogwai's Avatars don't actually do much for me!
Who is the funniest? That's worth a whole separate prize, but I'll leave that to someone who HAS A SENSE OF HUMOUR to judge! :lol::lol::lol:
I think I'd nominate Loz, Ali, ... Fatduke because he always posts the funnies ...
Definitely a whole new thread in that. Which I am not in a position to sponsor as I just got back from Ally Pally having NOT managed to keep my cash in my wallet. DOH!
Chief's quite funny, actually, I've come to realise. He might as well try the 'funny' thread 'cos he's got no chance on this one. :lol::lol::lol:
[Edited on 4-2-2005 by Redruth]
Originally posted by monstermob 998
GET A CHEAP ELECTRIC LEAF BLOWER FROM ----ARGOS? WASH BIKE --BLOW WATER OFF -- JOB DONE
works for me
Totally leaving the topic here, but I have found a more amusing use for a leaf blower....
Take one Black and Decker leaf blower, one roll of gaffer tape and one Marigold glove...
Gaffer tape said Marigold glove to the end of said leaf blower.... set to 'blow' ,switch on and watch said Marigold glove expand to approx 10 times its original size before it either explodes or flies of the end off said leaf blower and getting stuck in neighbours tree !!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Oh god, I am such an adult 38 year old !!!!:frog:
( and I'll bet one or two of you will try this when the missus has gone out ! )
..... Back to topic now !:D
Cool! Now i've GOT to get a leaf blower!!
Wot about if you glue a few ball bearings in the end of the fingers, surely that'll give it much more range? :lol:
ericthered40
04-Feb-2005, 23:32
Question (Gearing for these tracks)
Can you tell me the best sprocket sizes to run front and rear for 916/996
Brands Gp and Indi
Snett
Cadwell
Doington
Silverstone
:puzzled::puzzled::puzzled:
Brands GP.....14/36
Indi.....14/38
Snett.....14/36 again
Cadwell....14/36
Donin.....15/38
SilverS......15/36 :D:D
Originally posted by NBs996
Cool! Now i've GOT to get a leaf blower!!
Wot about if you glue a few ball bearings in the end of the fingers, surely that'll give it much more range? :lol:
Best blow job i'v ever had :lol::lol::lol::lol:
ericthered40
05-Feb-2005, 00:48
Originally posted by dave w
Brands GP.....14/36
Indi.....14/38
Snett.....14/36 again
Cadwell....14/36
Donin.....15/38
SilverS......15/36 :D:D
short and neat and very sweet :cool:
skidlids
05-Feb-2005, 01:05
Must be one powerful 916 to pull 15/38 at Donington and 15/36 at Silverstone, mine just about gets away with 15/38 at Thruxton
Shazaam!
05-Feb-2005, 05:01
I understand the gesture to offer gearing advice to a fellow Ducati owner based on your own experience, but some of you are missing an important point. Different Ducati models have different different red-lines, primary drive ratios and different transmissions. So they require different sprockets.
First, 916’s and 996’s both have the same standard-ratio transmission, but the 916 has a 2:1 primary drive ratio where the 996 has a 1.84:1 ratio. So the answer to the initial question about the best gearing will be different for the 916 and the 996. Which model is it?
Second, (if his profile is correct) dave w drives a 999 that has a 1.84 primary drive ratio and a close-ratio transmission, which is a set-up that has a different overall gearing and gear spacing than either the 916 or the 996 in question. So a positive result with a particular sprocket combination on a 999 doesn’t translate to a model other than a 998.
If you convert his 999 recommendations to a 916 set-up then the recommendation become 15/37 to 15/42. For the very highly geared 996, the closest you can get is with 15/42 to 14/42, but I strongly suggest that you not use 14-tooth sprockets on 99s’s, 998’s or 999’s because of higher chain tension.
Redruth
05-Feb-2005, 22:08
Can someone PLEASE post a tricky question to test our self-appointed panelists? I'm gonna resent awarding the prize for a half-arsed contest.
Doesn't anyone have a really tricky techncial question to ask?
:puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzzled::puzz led::puzzled:
paulmort
05-Feb-2005, 22:22
My question before logoff
Why is it that Ducati still insist on producing red and yellow bikes when we all know that Blooo is a much better colour?
And Ruthie Babe, I'll open the box please what ever the prize
rgds
mort
Iconic944ss
05-Feb-2005, 22:29
ok - in for a penny...and its one I'd wondered about for the desmo boys as well..
I have my 93 900ss turning quite nicely after dropping the forks though the yokes some 20mm (serious I know but, I had to do this to be able to fabricate my own hi-rise bar kit) and fitting a Magnesium Marchesini front...
But....for the track wouldn't a combination of mild head dropping AND raising the rear ride height be better.
Finally - does anyone actually make a proper rear ride hight lifter/adjuster (eg - BLOCK OF METAL) seperately, to do the job - I have not found any yet.
If my feeble memory still serves me only Ohlins shox actually have real height adjustment built-in?
Ahem - I thank you all in advance....
Frazzeled Franko
[Edited on 5-2-2005 by Iconic944ss]
skidlids
05-Feb-2005, 22:33
Not technical questions but ones I keep asking myself
Why did Ducati replace the 998 with a 999.
Why did Emmett and Chilli both struggle so much with the 999.
How many miles should I expect my 916 to go on for considering the constant abuse it gets.
Why would somebody want to paint a Ducati BLUE :frog:
monstermob 998
05-Feb-2005, 22:33
ok heres one-- is it possible to fit 600ss crank barrels and heads to 750ss bottom end(gearbox/crankcases) this will enable a six speed gearbox and the use of an oil cooler/oil temp guage would it not?or is it possible to fit oil cooler and-oil temp guage to 600SS crankcase/gearbox and then fit ducati performance aftermarket six speed gear cluster?-- just thinkin of next years project
Redruth
05-Feb-2005, 22:37
I thank you boys. Keep it coming, Iconic, Skidywids and Monstermob.
Especially Skidywids as you are actually a panellist. :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:
skidlids
05-Feb-2005, 22:45
Frank your memory still works the Ohlins shock for the SS range (DU235 I think) does have a ride height adjuster built in so that you can increase the rear rideheight by making the shock longer than the standard 328mm.
I am currenty working on a solution to jacking up the back end of my desmo Due 600SS, an couple of hours ago I picked up Senna3's spare shock to take measurements and have also measured a couple of shocks I have, I now have a little drawing of a block that should fit in between the swing arm and a suitable shock. Currently working around a Paioli shock off a Laverda, it has a ride height adjuster built in and if I get things right I should be able to vary the over all length from the standard 328mm up to around 340mm. i did think about popping into work this evening and knocking out a prototype. The Paioli shock has about 12mm of adjustment and at its shortest is 280mm, giving me 48mm between fixing centres for my rideheight adapter
For anyone interested in how it's done...
The 900ss Ohlins units are adjusted by winding out the bottom mount point. There's 2 options for the 900ss according to ohlins catalogue... the DU235 (as skidywids says cos he da man!), or a DU245 which has a remote preload adjustment.
Adjustment range on the Ohlins is also about 12mm.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/niboustead/dsc/ohlins.jpg
skidlids
06-Feb-2005, 00:49
Should point out that Paioli shock cost me all of £70 and has remote reservoir and as well as the variable lengthn it also features rebound and compression damping. Last time I saw a 2nd hand Ohlins on ebay for a SS model it went for £300 which is a bit outside my budget for the race bike.
As the saying goes "Necessity is the mother of Invention"
Iconic944ss
06-Feb-2005, 15:52
Nice one guys - I must check out my WP shox sometime and see how easy / difficult a quick mod might be.
:D
skidlids
07-Feb-2005, 00:21
Just measured the dimensions of the spring fitted to the Paioli and put the dimensions into my equation and come up with a figure of 600lb/in which is way to stiff, fitting a softer spring is no problem but getting the damping matched to a new spring rate may prove a bit more troublesome and could make using this shock a non runner as I want to stay in Budget.
Iconic944ss
07-Feb-2005, 10:23
SO then, a question close to my heart then....
How much longer can Ducati viably produce 2V bikes?
Given ever tightening environmental laws and market image, does the two-valve have much more life in it? :(
I have a question
In a wood-cutting factory, four large sawing machines stand in a windowless room. Each machine has an on/off switch attached, there being no doubt as to which switch controls which machine. Outside the door to the room are four back-up on/off switches, one for each machine inside. The power for each machine must first pass through the back-up switch, and then the machine switch before reaching the saw. The problem is, the new manager cannot decide how these back-up switches match with the machines inside the room. One day, the manager's brother visits. The manager takes him inside the sawing room where all four machines are at work and explains the problem. The brother announces that he intends to leave the room and that when he returns he will be able to match correctly the four switches outside the room to the four machines inside. The brother works alone, cannot see the machines from outside the room and solves the problem purely by operating switches. How is it possible? One for Redruth :P
Redruth
07-Feb-2005, 19:02
Originally posted by chief
I have a question
In a wood-cutting factory, four large sawing machines stand in a windowless room. Each machine has an on/off switch attached, there being no doubt as to which switch controls which machine. Outside the door to the room are four back-up on/off switches, one for each machine inside. The power for each machine must first pass through the back-up switch, and then the machine switch before reaching the saw. The problem is, the new manager cannot decide how these back-up switches match with the machines inside the room. One day, the manager's brother visits. The manager takes him inside the sawing room where all four machines are at work and explains the problem. The brother announces that he intends to leave the room and that when he returns he will be able to match correctly the four switches outside the room to the four machines inside. The brother works alone, cannot see the machines from outside the room and solves the problem purely by operating switches. How is it possible? One for Redruth :P
You were warned, Chief! I shall be deducting points from your already negative score AND sending you an invoice for wasting my time reading that. Worse still, for the additional time I've wasted trying to think of the answer! :devil::frog::lol::P
Redruth
08-Feb-2005, 19:25
In the absence of anything more taxing, can someone please answer these questions for me?
1. How do I measure the tread on my tyres (using some simple tool that I might have access to) and how much tread should there be for it to be road legal?
2. Is it normal to be losing something like 4 or 5 lbs pressure from the front tyre every time I ride the bike? i.e. I put it away after a ride and the next time out I check the pressures and they've gone down about that amount on average. :puzzled:
Redruth,
Is this one of those conundrum's you know like "Peter has a cake and cuts it into 4 slices......?"
How about this one.
What goes through a door but never goes in and never comes out?
Chief, you're gonna get in trouble again!
Ruthie, no it's not normal to lose so much pressure, but are you measuring your pressures hot then again when they're cold? There could be that much difference between hot and cold pressures.
Take your readings from stone cold tyres and they might lose, at a guess, a psi or two over a month but not 4-5 from one weekend to the next.
p.s. I'm off out to get drunk now, so anything I post after I get home should be considered even more crap than I normally post!
Redruth
08-Feb-2005, 19:39
Chief, if I were the type of person who got seriously irritated by people being intentionally obtuse, which I'm not, luckily, I'd be getting the right bl00dy 'ump with you by now! :lol:;):P
monstermob 998
08-Feb-2005, 19:51
Originally posted by monstermob 998
ok heres one-- is it possible to fit 600ss crank barrels and heads to 750ss bottom end(gearbox/crankcases) this will enable a six speed gearbox and the use of an oil cooler/oil temp guage would it not?or is it possible to fit oil cooler and-oil temp guage to 600SS crankcase/gearbox and then fit ducati performance aftermarket six speed gear cluster?-- just thinkin of next years project
have started planning next years project- ok so the above may not be feasible ( didnt get any replies:puzzled:)apart from fitting the six speed cluster in the 600 gearbox and adding an oil temp guage as per the ducati performance catalogue part no 965069AAA where does the sender fit????? is it possible to plumb in an oil cooler to original 600 crankcases? and also in the ducati performance catalogue there are some variable-advance control units- do these just advance the ignition timing if so , for what purpose??higher torque? faster revving?or just moves the torque of the engine to lower revs ?
Redruth
08-Feb-2005, 23:26
Nick, I am measuring them from cold.
Here's the procedure.
Get bike out of garage.
Check tyre pressure (yes I have a digital tyre pressure gauge of my very own).
It's invariably 4 - 5 lbs down on the front and between 2 and 4 on the back.
Take it to garage (200 yards up the road)
Add air.
re-measure pressure next time I get bike out - about 5 - 7 days later.
pressure dropped again.
I have to say, I think it's something to do with the fact that I'm riding on these 208RRs. I've never had this drop in pressure on any tyre before, unless I actually had a slow puncture.
And what about the tread??? Where's you're reply on that?
Leave it till you're sober to answer because I don't want to have to struggle with some uninteligible drivel - (she can bl00dy talk! :lol:)
:sing::devil:
Iconic944ss
08-Feb-2005, 23:30
I'm starting to think this whole thing is a smoke screen by RedRuth so she can ask every single question she's ever wanted to in one single thread.
Clever really - I like it !
Frank
skidlids
08-Feb-2005, 23:58
Ruth its worth checking the valves for leaks if you have the alloy ones that Ducati originally fit, I have known them to corrode in our luvley winter conditions and start leaking air past them.
Hi Ruth
Have you measured the pressures with your digital gauge at the garage, immediately after you have re-inflated the tyres? Check what your gauge says against the garage pump's gauge's reading. There can be a big difference!
:eureka: (maybe)
Redruth
09-Feb-2005, 19:33
Originally posted by Iconic944ss
I'm starting to think this whole thing is a smoke screen by RedRuth so she can ask every single question she's ever wanted to in one single thread.
Clever really - I like it !
Frank
If that were the case Frank, and I am not saying it is, but if it were, then I'm certainly getting my monies worth.
:devil:
But no, that wasn't the purpose of the quiz. The real purpose of the quiz was to allow me to ask enough questions to irritate someone somewhere sufficiently to say
"Listen love, don't tax your tiny little brain over these things. You're a girlie, after all. You pop back in the kitchen and I'll come round and sort out everything that needs sorting on your bike for the price of a nice Sunday roast and a few beers!"
So, top marks for getting quite close, Frank, just not close enough! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::frog::P
Redruth
10-Feb-2005, 19:33
Just in case you didn't spot it, I've started a new thread, 'same quiz, new thread' as this one was becoming somewhat unwieldy on my dial up at home.
So anyone has any questions to put to our experts, post them on the new thread. Everything will be aggregated at the end of the month to decide who's won.
We're more than 1/3rd of the way to knowing who our know-all is ...
:sing::sing::sing:
Redruth
13-Feb-2005, 22:36
I'm bumping this one too. Tomorrow is half way point. Clearly, you testosterone driven guys are all going to be busy keeping the Laydeeez happy tomorrow night but just spare a thought for those of us who are trying to show our appreciation to the efforts of the panel of helpful blokes who make this message board the centre of technical excellence that it is today (and yesterday, and hopefully tomorrow)
:D
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