View Full Version : OK gloves off and Be Honest with ya self!
ok lets have it!
this is a debate on best bikes
748/916/996 V 749/999 it does not matter wich model BIP R S ETC ETC
Bear in mind what you have owned B4 !
Ok This is point!!!!!!
When a manufacturer makes a new model from scratch
The REASERCH and development that goes into it is imeasureable.
and it usualy makes that bike/car RAW plesure!!!
OK I'll start of with Ford Escort MK1 MEXICO (AWSOME)
Mk2 Escort only wore the badge
and mk3 did not deserve the MEXICO BADGE;)
Ok MK1 GOLF GTI first HOT hatch
RS series 1 Turbo Awsome (WHITEand blue)
92 Fireblade it changed the Rules (pre FOXEYE) first Hooligan bike
so the point i'm making is this !!!!! once they have built the aforesed machines
why do they spoil them by making them all Refined;)
and sloppy and normal ! they just seem to loose the edge they had when they were first thought of!!
this is why i think the 916/996 will always be the best bike
and yes i have rode all of the models and yes i can afford one !
so just answer the bloody question and put your views forward:lol::lol:
ps think it's gonna be a long nite:lol::lol::lol::lol:
Raw pleasure........why change them............years of development..............I know ill paint the wheels white! :lol::lol:
Best bike was surely the AP50 - it gave me my independance!!!!
It also beat all the local FS1E's and screamed along with me flat on the tank at 59 (or so the local man in blue told me:( )
Had nice shiny bits too, and pedals for when it broke down or (more often, as I was poor schoolkid/student) ran out of juice)
There Mav, satisfied?:P:lol:
Originally posted by andyb
Raw pleasure........why change them............years of development..............I know ill paint the wheels white! :lol::lol: :smug::smug:
wont bloody slow it down will it!:smug::smug::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Originally posted by CK and AK
Best bike was surely the AP50 - it gave me my independance!!!!
It also beat all the local FS1E's and screamed along with me flat on the tank at 59 (or so the local man in blue told me:( )
Had nice shiny bits too, and pedals for when it broke down or (more often, as I was poor schoolkid/student) ran out of juice)
There Mav, satisfied?:P:lol:
Remember it well ;):cool:
Originally posted by CK and AK
Best bike was surely the AP50 - it gave me my independance!!!!
It also beat all the local FS1E's and screamed along with me flat on the tank at 59 (or so the local man in blue told me:( )
Had nice shiny bits too, and pedals for when it broke down or (more often, as I was poor schoolkid/student) ran out of juice)
There Mav, satisfied?:P:lol:
AP 50 with a A100 lump at 16....that was fun :D
First big bike EXUP 1000.... that was fast:o
Originally posted by Dseered
I'm sorry, RD50 MX was the best !
not good enough:P - no reasoning behind statement mate!:lol:
C,
ps: AP50 ruled OK in 19**:D
I was an ap50 man aswell!! :D
I still ride down that same piece of dual carriageway now smiling, remenising flat on the tank 58,59mph...on the ap50.
Red one of course!
Originally posted by dave w
First big bike EXUP 1000.... that was fast:o
5 speed box and gave the 98 R1 a run for it's money! ;)
Originally posted by andyb
I was an ap50 man aswell!! :D
I still ride down that same piece of dual carriageway now smiling, remenising flat on the tank 58,59mph...on the ap50.
Red one of course!
you would be different !
most were Blue !:lol:
Worse ever bike....Honda CBX550...inboard discs !
suzuki GSXR1100 L....evil round the bends.
suzuki GSXR1100 L....evil round the bends. and the GSXR 1100 (k) model
the one they called the Killer K :D
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 21:57
i had an XR3 then chopped it for XR3i in 1985 the better car was the non -injection
done the same with a UR quattro then got S2 the UR was far more fun!!!
had a Z1B then had a ride on a Z900 the difference was worlds apart- the Z900 was far better- not such a beast but handled better
Best ever 2 stroke....2 X7 suzuki's and a RD250LC :D
Those were the days.....no gatso's just loads of fun :D
x7...bah! I had the GT250A far superior. NRP217P...:o
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 22:02
RG500 was bestest!!!!
Originally posted by andyb
x7...bah! I had the GT250A far superior. NRP217P...:o
Now if you had of said GT380 i would have been impressed :frog:
Originally posted by monstermob 998
RG500 was bestest!!!!
NSR400 now that was a classic ;)
skidlids
10-Feb-2005, 22:04
Compared to my Kwak 500 H1F my GSXR1100K handled a hell of a lot better, but was futher improved by the addition of a Harris Magnum 4 body kit.
As for Mopeds FS1E was ace, the AP50 a better bike but both were far to refined compared to a Fantic Caballero.
No direct experience of a 999 although I have a project in mind that includes a Single sided arm.
Currently settle for the blend of old and new 748RS Chassis with the later 998 Testastretta engine. I think its going to be hard to find a bike that is better than a sorted 998R
Originally posted by dave w
Originally posted by andyb
x7...bah! I had the GT250A far superior. NRP217P...:o
Now if you had of said GT380 i would have been impressed :frog:
had one of those i think it was the first bike with a gear indicater light !
Mav, can I compare my Fiat 126 (c.1984) to my smart car???:lol:
both seriously underpowered... :smug:
C
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 22:07
i had a KH250 triple as well they dont make em like that any more -- they wouldnt dare!!!!
Originally posted by CK and AK
Mav, can I compare my Fiat 126 (c.1984) to my smart car???:lol:
both seriously underpowered... :smug:
C
Charlotte! You chopped in your SMART car for a 126! You only just got it!
Good choice!
:bouncy:
Originally posted by madmav
Originally posted by dave w
Originally posted by andyb
x7...bah! I had the GT250A far superior. NRP217P...:o
Now if you had of said GT380 i would have been impressed :frog:
had one of those i think it was the first bike with a gear indicater light !
Did they do a big one.... the kettle 780 or 850??
Originally posted by CK and AK
Mav, can I compare my Fiat 126 (c.1984) to my smart car???:lol:
both seriously underpowered... :smug:
C
Tart cart :D:lol::P:D:lol::P
Originally posted by skidlids
Compared to my Kwak 500 H1F my GSXR1100K handled a hell of a lot better, but was futher improved by the addition of a Harris Magnum 4 body kit.
As for Mopeds FS1E was ace, the AP50 a better bike but both were far to refined compared to a Fantic Caballero.
No direct experience of a 999 although I have a project in mind that includes a Single sided arm.
Currently settle for the blend of old and new 748RS Chassis with the later 998 Testastretta engine. I think its going to be hard to find a bike that is better than a sorted 998R
Kev i had a 750 H1 with alfa pipes on sounded like an F1 car
then my favorite Kwack was a 350 tripple s1 i think it was
and yes you guessed white with a green stripe
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 22:09
Originally posted by dave w
Originally posted by monstermob 998
RG500 was bestest!!!!
NSR400 now that was a classic ;)
the honda had far better handling but in a straight line the RG done it for me
Did they do a big one.... the kettle 780 or 850??
dave it was a 750 kettle ;)
Loz!!! behave:P
mmmm my kettle 750 was a useful bike, but my GT was better - it was a prettier colour too, sadly neither survived long tho - binned one & sold the other - to buy a horse:o
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 22:12
750 kettle use to smoke well as well
didnt suzuki do a rotary engined bike as well?
GT750 Kettle, liguid cooled triple, with led gear indicator.
Early models (J & K) had a radiator fan as standard, though my "A" model didn't.
Loved that bike, but it didn't love me back :(
Honda CBX1000 with its 6 cylinders....Balance the carbs on that baby:o
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 22:25
getting back to mavs original idea best bikes that we have owned
my first ever bike was honda XL125 k2 MPB543P had it for three years ,i put 40000 miles on it, i rode it every where, i abused it to hell and back i could throw it round roundabouts and scrape the pegs not easily done on a trail bike!!!! rebuilt the engine twice cos of broken rings, but for me it was the best bike i owned- even tho it high sided me off and landed on me knee cap and broke it three!!!
DT125 the early dual shock model :)
The newer models just aren't the same :( Although I have just bought a crash damaged one to rebuild....
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 22:56
how long were you looking for one Mr_S?i been looking for xl125k2 for three years!!to do the same, not even the VJMC could help!
skidlids
10-Feb-2005, 22:59
My first road motorbike was a XL125K2 (RFC 7P) passed my test on it in Jan 78 and still kept it for another 18 months. Was always scraping the pegs on it as doing so impressed the hell out of my mates on their road bikes.
Mav my HIF also had spannies, they made it sound like a rip saw. I also had a 750 Kettle with a piper 3into1 pipe. Thankfully I didn't go for a RE5
Loads of aircooled RDs usually the 350cc versions although badged as 250s, the YR5 was wild, thank god somebody invented Reed Valves.
Still my Fav bike of my teens and early 20s was my CB400/4
Originally posted by madmav
ok lets have it!
this is a debate on best bikes
748/916/996 V 749/999 it does not matter wich model BIP R S ETC ETC
Bear in mind what you have owned B4 !
Ok This is point!!!!!!
When a manufacturer makes a new model from scratch
The REASERCH and development that goes into it is imeasureable.
and it usualy makes that bike/car RAW plesure!!!
OK I'll start of with Ford Escort MK1 MEXICO (AWSOME)
Mk2 Escort only wore the badge
and mk3 did not deserve the MEXICO BADGE;)
Ok MK1 GOLF GTI first HOT hatch
RS series 1 Turbo Awsome (WHITEand blue)
92 Fireblade it changed the Rules (pre FOXEYE) first Hooligan bike
so the point i'm making is this !!!!! once they have built the aforesed machines
why do they spoil them by making them all Refined;)
and sloppy and normal ! they just seem to loose the edge they had when they were first thought of!!
this is why i think the 916/996 will always be the best bike
and yes i have rode all of the models and yes i can afford one !
so just answer the bloody question and put your views forward:lol::lol:
ps think it's gonna be a long nite:lol::lol::lol::lol:
mav, I think your argument has some merit but does not go across the board.
Now I am a bit of a two stroke fan. (no stroke jokes thanks boys)
and would have to say that development from the early models was for the better. KR1 - KR1S much nicer. RGV early twin pipe either side to the M with banana swing arm was the best,
NSR MC16 - MC28 swipe card ignition single side swing arm again much better bike.
I do no what you are saying with regard to the fire blade and it was a brutal bike.
but to compare that to say a SP1 is not fair or is it fair to compare the 916 -999 models,
are you saying then that the 996 or 998 are not as good if not better bike than the original 916 ?
any way I lost myself in all that, but I do think things get better with age maybe just not the new 749 999 series, if it last for 10 years like the previous model did ill have to eat my hat. K
Dementor
10-Feb-2005, 23:10
996 gets my vote, have had 916,996 & 999, just something about the 996 engine that I like.
skidlids
10-Feb-2005, 23:13
was that a Bip or a SPS you had Roy
Had a mate with a 916, great bike to the point I bought my first Duke (996Bp) and I hated it at first coming from jap 4 cylinders, but once I'd spent some time on her she was sweet as anything.... and thus when time came for a change the Bostrom (998S) came along and in all honesty put the 996 to same, completely different bike, same riding position but on steroids.
And now the 999R.... no comment as I've had her 3 months or so and never turned a wheel, I am hoping with all my heart that it will take my grin factor to another level as the Bostrom is going in a week or two, I guess if I hate the 999R I can pick up a corking 998R instead...
monstermob 998
10-Feb-2005, 23:23
""My first road motorbike was a XL125K2 (RFC 7P) passed my test on it in Jan 78 and still kept it for another 18 months. Was always scraping the pegs on it as doing so impressed the hell out of my mates on their road bikes""---posted by skidlids!!!
glad you could back me up skidlids!! i also passed my test on my K2 on my 17th birthday!!(dont ask)!!
GUYs my point was befor the thread got hi jacked down memory lane.
is that in my opinion the748/ 916/996 is and will always be a better bike over 749/999
in the way that you can still find a MK1 escort mexico 36 yrs on
but you wont find a mk5 escort in 30yrs time
me thinks 748/916/996 will be around a lot longer than 749 999
imho
weeveetwin
10-Feb-2005, 23:30
I think Madmav's original question was..
Why do bikes grow progressively 'softer' over the years?
The answer has to be that once a manufacturer has came up with a killer design (which cuts itself a nice little niche in a very focused market), it can't then resist trying to make it appeal to a wider and wider audience in subsequent years. Hence, what was once at the cutting edge of design in all respects, becomes less offensive and more sanitised in an attempt to sell more units. Shamefully, the later machine is marketed as 'better' whilst we all know it's merely bathing in the glare of an earlier model's reflected glory.
BTW, I'd take issue with the statement "this is why i think the 916/996 will always be the best bike". The 916, when first launched, was bathing in the glare of WSB glories gained in fact by the 888. Moreover, whilst the 888 remained in competition, it gained innumerable victories over the early 916! You want the original 'raw' riding experience? Then ride what FastBikes Magazine called "..the incredible, incomparable, irrefragable, irrefrangible, irresponsible Ducati. Yep! Ride a tuned 888!
That's stirred it! (Ho hum)
Steve
Originally posted by weeveetwin
I think Madmav's original question was..
Why do bikes grow progressively 'softer' over the years?
The answer has to be that once a manufacturer has came up with a killer design (which cuts itself a nice little niche in a very focused market), it can't then resist trying to make it appeal to a wider and wider audience in subsequent years. Hence, what was once at the cutting edge of design in all respects, becomes less offensive and more sanitised in an attempt to sell more units. Shamefully, the later machine is marketed as 'better' whilst we all know it's merely bathing in the glare of an earlier model's reflected glory.
BTW, I'd take issue with the statement "this is why i think the 916/996 will always be the best bike". The 916, when first launched, was bathing in the glare of WSB glories gained in fact by the 888. Moreover, whilst the 888 remained in competition, it gained innumerable victories over the early 916! You want the original 'raw' riding experience? Then ride what FastBikes Magazine called "..the incredible, incomparable, irrefragable, irrefrangible, irresponsible Ducati. Yep! Ride a tuned 888!
That's stirred it! (Ho hum)
Steve
thats exactly what i meant ! other than 888 i always fancied one but never got there!
I agree with this point of view.
I've owned a number of Jap bikes and they are all good - but....
They seem to lack that raw edge that you get with the 916 and 996 ( I have not owned a 998 so cannot compare).
I have also found this with some sports cars.
About three years ago I traded my super fast and boring Toyota Supra in for a TVR Chimaera. Now these cars do have an edge too. While you can pay a price for ownership believe me it's well worth it - in fact my car has never missed a beat since I purchased it.
To be fair you pays ya money and takes yer chance!
Cheers
SPS
You guys are making me feel really old as I read about you learning on all those modern Japanese machines:D
[Edited on 11-2-2005 by Rocker]
Progress, you can't stop it but you don't have to buy it!
Ducati development it not entirely driven by what the customer wants. Like any company it is driven by the competition and the need to compete in the market place.
Ducati need to make money. The company has a top brand image and can make money from stuff other than bikes.
Since TPG took over, more and more non bike stuff has become available. Developments with the 749/999 meant that they were easier and less expensive to put together. TPG want to make money like any other business, they have to for long term survival.
It has been said 1,000,000 time before. How do you replace an Icon, the 748/916/996/998 series. Icon will always have their admirers and people who wan to own a piece. Others want to own the new improved recipe.
In 20-30 years time which bike will Ducati be re-creating??? the 748/..... series or the 749/......??
The really important bike for Ducati in terms of sales in the Monster. Get that wrong and the writing is on the wall.
ramblings over.
Ray
Not my first bike, but on Mavs theme about model development my first of 3 slightly different models of my first V twin was not the best but it lasted the longest.
The very first model of that superb torque laden V twin had an indellible effect on my biking life for evermore. The handling was interesting and the engine was predictable, insomuch as it would need stripping every 30,000 miles, but other than that, ran for well in excess of 120,000 miles on the clock, but in reality quite a bit more. (broken speedo drives).
The second model of this superb beast had benefitted from factory mods/redesigns even though they denied there was any problem. This engine performed superbly, with no need to strip it periodically and ran absolutely faultlessly for over 60,000 miles before some sad thieving scum nicked it.
The third model was memorable only for being suposedly more refined and developed but was actually a retrograde step, and not really that memorable. Heavier and despite supposed progress the handling still left a little to be desired when on the ragged edge.
The bike that converted me to V twin power that i refer to was the good old Hondahaha CX 500.
The first model ate cam chains every 30,000 miles, plus the odd alternator.
The second model the wonderous CX500B just took all the abuse i could give it and was faultless.
The third model, the not so awesome CX500 Eurosport was considered by connoisseurs in the courier world to be overweight and lack the svelte looks of the original model.
So from my experience the second model was the best as the teething problems of the first had been ironed out but the performance and handling were just as exhilarating.
And for any of you doubters out there about CX500's i still have a copy of an article written by Roland Brown in Bike who refers to the fully laden despatch CX500 duffing up a 350LC through south London. How we laughed and how it wobbled.
:lol:
[Edited on 11-2-2005 by BDG]
First Rd Bike was a Kwak AR 50 but had an 80cc engine, as a 16 year old it was awesome. Used to waste all the Fizz's
Once had a Fiat Strada Arbarth the thing was very adictive and very raw. Only duke I've riden is my 996 so cant compare to new models.
However generally when you look back to previous encarnations of cars/bikes they tend to be the ones that were the most fun.
BDG was that the bike they named (THE MAGGOT) ?
rcgbob44
11-Feb-2005, 18:37
I had an H1E Kwaker with pipes, rear sets, flat bars and girling shocks etc that was manic when wound up then they went and detuned them and ruined them all.
Then theres the 180- jota, What a machine, sound noise speed etc it had real character.then they went and made it all soft and poncy with a 120 crank.................................but I still have the 180, he he!;)
Originally posted by madmav
BDG was that the bike they named (THE MAGGOT) ?
PLASTIC MAGGOT i'll have you know
Phew...the threads about bikes after all.
For one moment, I thought it was gonna be about why I need to wear specs :lol::lol::lol::lol:
Another example, RC30 V New blade
Ok the blade is a mighty fine bike, but park 2 together in a car park and guess which one got the glances.
Also the same with the price, whats a new blade now ? 8K ish ? try finding a real minter of a RC30 for that - i know i am and not getting very far
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