Rear suspension units

[domski]

I'm speaking to a leading suspension company, and trying to sort out a deal for you guys as well. I haven't spoken to Chris B, about this, but I'm after a freebie or greatly reduced one, but want them to offer big discount to the other Desmo Due riders.

Hope that's OK with everyone :puzzled:

Watch this space :)

[Dibble]

aren't mods restricted to OEM stuff or am I missing the boat on this one ....

Dibble not of DD ....

[dickieducati]

sounds great.

[fil2]

Originally posted by DIBBLE
aren't mods restricted to OEM stuff or am I missing the boat on this one ....

Dibble not of DD ....

Rear shock is free

Phil

ps..i hope so i just fitted a nice ohlins

[Edited on 16-2-2005 by fil2]

[Rattler]

Originally posted by DIBBLE
aren't mods restricted to OEM stuff or am I missing the boat on this one ....

Dibble not of DD ....

Yes, you're left on the dock!!!

[domski]

Originally posted by Rattler

Yes, you're left on the dock!!!

Was Dibble in court?? :lol::lol::lol:

[uncledunnie]

If the rear shocks are free, can I have one?

On a more serious note, I have talking to a number of suspension "specialists" on this very subject. It seems £1k ish will get the front sorted and a new rear shock - so thats not going to happen this year for me.

Next point of call was Hyperpro who do spring kits front and rear for less than £200 - excellent - except they don't have one for a 620 Monster - not excellent.

So if you can do anything to bring down the "specialist" prices Mr Domskidue that gets my support.

[TP]

Free, greatly reduced ... my favourite words ...

I'm interested but I'm about to pull the trigger on getting the suspension sorted for my 620 monnie so when do you reckon you'll know Dom?

[domski]

Originally posted by uncledunnie
It seems £1k ish will get the front sorted and a new rear shock - so thats not going to happen this year for me.

So if you can do anything to bring down the "specialist" prices Mr Domskidue that gets my support.

£1000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are having a laugh?!?!?!?!?!

What sort of specialists have you been talking to :o:o

Forks should be less than £250 as there isn't a great deal you can do with them (short of changing oil & springs)

Ohlins rear shocks (who I'm not talking to) can be had for under £400 (If you ask a shop keeper nicely).

I'm glad I was sitting down when you said that :lol:

[domski]

Was hoping to know any minute now, but it looks like my 'contact' has gone home for the day :smug:

Should know this week.

Would be good to get a show of hands of those interested, and then I can tell them that there are customers waiting... At the right price of course ;);)

Don't panic, it's not Joe Bloggs suspension, this is top tackle :o:D

[uncledunnie]

Originally posted by domskidue
Originally posted by uncledunnie
It seems £1k ish will get the front sorted and a new rear shock - so thats not going to happen this year for me.

So if you can do anything to bring down the "specialist" prices Mr Domskidue that gets my support.

£1000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are having a laugh?!?!?!?!?!

What sort of specialists have you been talking to :o:o

Forks should be less than £250 as there isn't a great deal you can do with them (short of changing oil & springs)

Ohlins rear shocks (who I'm not talking to) can be had for under £400 (If you ask a shop keeper nicely).

I'm glad I was sitting down when you said that :lol:

Manxton - The conversion costs £340.00, this includes fitting and machining the Maxton cartridges, machining new bushes and fitting springs to suit the riders weight and what they us ethe bike for

Reactive - Your forks can be modified internally with new springs, pistons and valving the cost would be £450

Is there something I'm missing here?

All I wanted to do at the front end this year was change springs in the forks - anyone know a likely source. Hyperpro and Ohlins have both said they don't do them for a 620??

If a rear shock is available at a sensible price then I'm interested.

[skidlids]

Hagon said they would do there standard shock for the SS at around £250 and will custom build it (read lengthen) for a futher £45 when I spoke to them at the Ally Pally show

[domski]

Originally posted by skidlids
Hagon said they would do there standard shock for the SS at around £250 and will custom build it (read lengthen) for a futher £45 when I spoke to them at the Ally Pally show

That's quite good innit.

I'm hoping I can get something close to that price, but Ohlins/Penske/WP quality... but it's none of those :lol:

[domski]

Reactive - Your forks can be modified internally with new springs, pistons and valving the cost would be £450


That does seem a bit steep, but I'm going down that route again, I'm sure it's the best quality work there is ;)

I'll find out what I can do on the forks. I know a very good person who may be willing.

Out of interest, have you tried Big Al @ AJ Racing? He's a top geezer.

[ali]

I've had lots of conflicting info on forks from various sources. Maxton seem to be the best informed, but could only offer complete new cartridges for £400+. :(

Having spent much of last year discussing the back end of my 900SL with many suspension specialists, the majority agreed that a well set up Showa unit was almost as good as an Ohlins as long as you didn't want ride height adjustment or increased overall length.

Personally I'm looking for about 10mm more overall length (stop s******ing...:lol: ), preferably with some ride height adjustment. The only way I can work out to do this is with a shock with a component shock-tube (ie: ohlins) which can be extended, rather a showa where the shock-tube is a moulded part of the unit. Harris have said they can extend an ohlins unit for an extra £50 but as I can't afford one in the first place it's fairly irrelevant!!

So any help you can offer Domski is definitely welcome. :D

Cheers,

Ali


[Edited on 16-2-2005 by ali]

[skidlids]

I may give Derek at Hejira Racing Developments and see what he can offer, about 15 years ago he built a one off Spax shock for me for my Harris Magnum, it worked out about half the cost of the White Power one that Harris were selling.

[Rattler]

Blimey!!! I intend to run the standard shock on my 620 - how much better is this than the early 600ss types? Gonna stiffen up the front end with some no-motion lotion and get some ride height installled and bob's your doodar!!!

Hadn't really thought about swapping the rear shock, if its cheap enough I might consider it, but I've already spent too much on this thing!!!

I've got servant's wages to consider, I might have to offload one of the kitchen staff - these soux chefs don't come cheap you know!!! ;)

[FiscusFish]

Originally posted by Rattler
Blimey!!! I intend to run the standard shock on my 620 - how much better is this than the early 600ss types?

A minimum of 8 years better....

Darren

[butch890]

Mr Hackett is about to take a hammer and chisel to a set of 620m forks.
Butch

[beancounter]

Lord Rattler,

I'm beginning to think you may not have staff at all.........

...........it's 'sous-chef' not 'soux chef' !

[Rattler]

Originally posted by beancounter
Lord Rattler,

I'm beginning to think you may not have staff at all.........

...........it's 'sous-chef' not 'soux chef' !

It can be either - don't you know, what what!!!

But I thought things were a bit strange when he came to work wearing warpaint and weilding a tomahawk to carve the venison!!!

Must speak to the maitre de or head chef about this though, my employment policy has gone awry!!!!

I knew that my new head of HR wasn't all he was cracked up to be!!!

Tim:ninja:

[skidlids]

Tim the idea of getting a aftermarket shock is to alter the ride height not many ways you can go about solving this issue without a longer shock, or maybe a shorter one with a adapter made to fit at either frame or swingarm end

[Rattler]

Originally posted by skidlids
Tim the idea of getting a aftermarket shock is to alter the ride height not many ways you can go about solving this issue without a longer shock, or maybe a shorter one with a adapter made to fit at either frame or swingarm end

Blimey - so what about a ride-height adjuster? Can't you just get a longer one of these, or will the standard shock not take it?

Tim:frog:

[Jools]

Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by skidlids
Tim the idea of getting a aftermarket shock is to alter the ride height not many ways you can go about solving this issue without a longer shock, or maybe a shorter one with a adapter made to fit at either frame or swingarm end

Blimey - so what about a ride-height adjuster? Can't you just get a longer one of these, or will the standard shock not take it?

Tim:frog:

Cor Blimey and who'd have thought it. An old pipe and slippers ST owner being able to contribute technical advice to a race series :o

Obviously, it depends what bike you're running in the series. I don't know about the SS, but for all you 620 monster competitors and the earlier 600's I think, remember that the chassis of the little 'uns is almost identical to the big 'uns and also to the ST.

So, if you get yourself a ride height adjuster from an ST, it will fit your 620 Monster. You can then wind the rear ride height up to your hearts content. At one stage, I had the back end of my ST wound up to the point where the centre stand didn't touch the ground anymore, so I'm sure there is enough adjustment there for most people.

Officially, they say not to have too much thread showing on the rose joints at each end, but I had loads of thread extended and never had a problem.

[Rattler]

Originally posted by Jools
Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by skidlids
Tim the idea of getting a aftermarket shock is to alter the ride height not many ways you can go about solving this issue without a longer shock, or maybe a shorter one with a adapter made to fit at either frame or swingarm end

Blimey - so what about a ride-height adjuster? Can't you just get a longer one of these, or will the standard shock not take it?

Tim:frog:

Cor Blimey and who'd have thought it. An old pipe and slippers ST owner being able to contribute technical advice to a race series :o

Obviously, it depends what bike you're running in the series. I don't know about the SS, but for all you 620 monster competitors and the earlier 600's I think, remember that the chassis of the little 'uns is almost identical to the big 'uns and also to the ST.

So, if you get yourself a ride height adjuster from an ST, it will fit your 620 Monster. You can then wind the rear ride height up to your hearts content. At one stage, I had the back end of my ST wound up to the point where the centre stand didn't touch the ground anymore, so I'm sure there is enough adjustment there for most people.

Officially, they say not to have too much thread showing on the rose joints at each end, but I had loads of thread extended and never had a problem.


Jools - your input is always welcomed, just don't spedn too long in this section as you're being watched :o:o:o:o !!!!

If all I need is an adjustable ride-height adjuster, why is Kev talking about swapping the expensive shock to get more ride height? Does the older shock not have the range in it for greater height?

Tim:frog:

[FiscusFish]

'Cos the SS doesn't have ride height adjustment and could do with being up to 25mm longer.

Darren

[Rattler]

Originally posted by FiscusFish
'Cos the SS doesn't have ride height adjustment and could do with being up to 25mm longer.

Darren

At the risk of appearing even more stoopid - why can't you fit an adjustable ride height adjuster to a SS?

Tim:

[domski]

OK, I have asked a top suspension friend of mine how much to sort the forks out, he reckons about £250, but will give me an accurate figure once he's talked to suppliers. This would include new cartidges, springs, blah, blah.

Also, on the rear shock front, at present the manufacturer doesn't make one specifically for the Ducati 600/620, so I will send them the standard shock and ask them to build in ride height adjustment and remote reservoir etc. to the pukka race unit. Will also get back to you on the price.

Who is seriously interested?

[Edited on 17-2-2005 by domskidue]

[domski]

Originally posted by domskidue
rear shock front

That's why I'm not a mechanic :lol::lol:

[ali]

Hi Domski,

Definitely interested if it comes in under £250. Much more and you're into Ohlins territory. I'd be just as happy to run a 900 showa with some type of ride height adjustment if anyone can work out a solution....

Cheers,

Ali

[Iconic944ss]

The ST ride height adjuster sounds interesting but (if my failing grey matter is still functioning) the ST uses a vertical shox with rose joints and our 'modern classics' use an inclined and direct (linear) mounted unit.

sounds intreguing thou - any pics of said adjuster please.

I think it might be possible to manufacture a ride height adjuster to fit on the top shock mounting point but getting any more than 25mm adjustment could prove to be a problem.

ps - I dont think my WP shock is sufficiently improved over a std shock to justify the price (£280 I think I paid) but mine was leaking and the importer did a 'special offfer'. If I had my time over I 'd go for either an Ohlins or Penske - both get good ratings.

Frank

[skidlids]

Tim the standard SS shock is 328mm between fixing centres, one end fits directly to the frame just under the rear of the tank the other end bolts directly to the A frame part of the swingarm as it is a basic cantilever set up.
Each end of the shock has a eye fitting that are unadjustable, as the rear shock to wheel travel is approximately 1.9 to 1 then a shock length of about 235 to 240mm should do the job. With the standard shock at 328mm then there is not enough room between fixing centers to fit a proper adapter. I have thought about modifying one of the shock mounting points, the frame one seems the obvious one to do, where as the swing arm one is easier to take to my local fabricator and have him sort some thing, either of which I would first have to run by the comittee to see if it is within the rules.
My other choice is to use a shorter shock and a adapter/adjuster. I have a 290mm Paioli which woul give me 45 to 50 mm of space to fit an adjustable adapter in. As the shock only owes me £65 this is still a very cheap option and inside my budget, failing that I have an adjustable Penske that I'm sure I can get a mate to modify for me to get the right length, currently on its longest setting it is 320mm so basically I just need the adjuster bit to be 20mm longer, not to much of a problem to get made but as the shock is worth £250 plus then the budget is getting eaten up.

Kev

[paynep]

A quick question chaps -

what is the thinking behind altering the rear ride height?
I have looked for setup articles on the ss, but obviously have missed one.................

Cheers, Paul

[uncledunnie]

Domski,

I'm still interested, just need to clarify the following with you.

I've got a 620 Monster which already has an adjustable ride height rod, so I'm just looking for a shock upgrade/change. The unit fitted to my bike is a Sachs unit with rebound damping only.

The forks are Marzocchi I believe but since there are no obvious markings they may be Showa. I have been told the Marzocchi units are not easy to modify (??).

Thanks for the help.

Dunnie

[FiscusFish]

Originally posted by paynep
A quick question chaps -

what is the thinking behind altering the rear ride height?
I have looked for setup articles on the ss, but obviously have missed one.................

Cheers, Paul

One of the few problems with the SS is it's relatively slow steering. Once you get it over to the right lean angle then nothing short of running over anther DesmoDue competitor is going to put it off course but getting there in the first place requires a fair bit of effort.

One of the ways to change this is dropping the forks through the yokes a little. This is fine up to a point but eventually you're gonna run into ground clearance problems. The alternative is raising the rear ride height.

If money is really tight (from around £15) a later SSie shock off of eBay should bolt straight up and is around 12mm longer. Other than being newer and probably in better condition the extra shock length offers a noticeable improvement.

Darren

[ali]

Originally posted by paynep
A quick question chaps -

what is the thinking behind altering the rear ride height?
I have looked for setup articles on the ss, but obviously have missed one.................

Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul,

There was no specific article, it's just the SS tends to sit low in the back. Having had a 900SS and a 900SL I can testify that unless perfectly setup they can be a bit of a pig to muscle around corners, with a distinct tendancy to understeer.

As Niel Spalding wrote, it'll be better to get the whole bike slightly higher to help drop-in, so just canting the bike by dropping the forks through the yolks isn't really enough, hence the desire for ride-height adjustment.

The problem is that the shock is mounted at such an angle that it requires a greater length difference than a vertically mounted shock would. In order to gain 10mm of vertical difference you'd need about 25mm of adjustment on the shock, and there are those that'd contest that 10mm vertical on an SS is just the start.....

Cheers,

Ali

[Edited on 18-2-2005 by ali]

[skidlids]

Originally posted by ali
The problem is that the shock is mounted at such an angle that it requires a greater length difference than a vertically mounted shock would. In order to gain 10mm of vertical difference you'd need about 25mm of adjustment on the shock, and there are those that'd contest that 10mm vertical on an SS is just the start.....

Cheers,

Ali

How do you work that out Ali, my 916 shock is mounted to a rocker that gives a ratio of about 2:1 where as the cantilever set up of my 600SS has a ratio of 1.9 to 1, 20 if I add 10 mm to either shock the 916 rear will be lifted 20mm w.r.t. the rear spindle and the 600SS by 19mm w.r.t the rear spindle, the angle of the SS shock will actually determine the rising rate part of the ratio as it travels through a slight arc.

I have tried a few places for a SSie shock but no luck, Jim at Bike Enders thought he had one but it turned out to be a shock off a ST4 which after digging it out he then put on Ebay

[ali]

Originally posted by skidlids
How do you work that out Ali, my 916 shock is mounted to a rocker that gives a ratio of about 2:1 where as the cantilever set up of my 600SS has a ratio of 1.9 to 1, 20 if I add 10 mm to either shock the 916 rear will be lifted 20mm w.r.t. the rear spindle and the 600SS by 19mm w.r.t the rear spindle, the angle of the SS shock will actually determine the rising rate part of the ratio as it travels through a slight arc.


I appear to have made the same school boy error again.....:lol:

I always get the ratio the wrong way around, but then physics was never my strong point!! Come to think of it I can't remember what was???:rolleye:

Thanks, again, for the correction.

Ali

[skidlids]

To get a rough idea of ratio is easy on any bike Find out how much rear wheel trave it has, usually stated in the specs and then look at the stroke of the shock.
If there is about 120mm of rear wheel travel and 60mm of stroke on the shock then the ratio is around 2 to 1

Ali your original schoolboy method would give a shock stroke of 240mm, would certainly make for a very long shock well over half a meter long

[ali]

Originally posted by skidlids
Ali your original schoolboy method would give a shock stroke of 240mm, would certainly make for a very long shock well over half a meter long

Which is exactly what I'm intending on using! That should place my bum about 1m above the rest of my body, thereby giving the Heinz BB Turbo chance to work...:lol:

Skids, thinks he knows a bit about physics just 'cos he works with particle accelerators!:lol:

[domski]

OK, update...

My rear suspension :o manufacturer guy is in TOKYO!!!!!!!

He's back next week, and he's happy to sort something out. He already does one for the 600SS, so the 620ie will be next up.

I'll keep you all informed.

Just save yer pennies and don't panic buy anything for a week. Hopefully I'll be able to make it worth your while - I hope.

:biaggi:

[Edited on 18-2-2005 by domskidue]

[phoenix n max]

You can gain some ride height adjustment on the earlier 600's by adjusting the rose joints on the suspension hoop.