Building a track Ducati....

[Rattler]

I'm thinking about getting a Ducati for track use only.

I haven't seen too many track-only Ducati's for sale, so am looking to create my own from an insurance write off or similar.

Anyone know the easiest way to go about this?

Anyone done this and can help me?

In terms of model should I be looking for a 916 or better or will a 748 be up to the job? Whilst it would be great to get a SPS for the job, I'm looking to do this as cheaply as poss.

Has anyone built one up and then wished they'd gone for a better base model?

Anyone know of any insurance sell-off auctions or similar?

It seems you can get R6 track bikes pretty easily, but I'm hoping to avoid the rice-burner route.

Ta
Tim

[Felix]

Tim, there's plenty of them around. I can probably point you in the right direction. What's your budget? How about a brand new 748RS for about 15000 pounds?

[Rattler]

Felix....

You can find R6 track/race bikes for £2500 to £5000 or so. These have lots of spares, bodywork, WOW etc....

I'm probably only looking to pay at the top end of that range for a track Ducati, so anything RS is definitely out of the question.

Besides, I'm not looking to do a great deal of maintenance and so I want a standard (or lightly modded engine), that isn't likely to blow up or need much more than oil and plugs every now and then!!;)

My SPS is pretty well spec'd with aftermarket perfomance goodies, ie slipper, Brembo race brakes, mags etc.... so I'd be looking to fit these to the track Duke anyway and get the SPS back to standard. Therefore it doesn't necessarily have to have all the bells and whistles....

But, ideally it'll have Ohlins rear and Ohlins (maybe internals) fronts, 100+ BHP, so 916 or above (maybe 748R), and come with lots of spares - levers, bars, bodywork etc....

Do you know of any?

[skidlids]

Tim, the easiest way is as you say to get hold of a write off with minimun damage to the frame.
If your trying to do it from just parts, it still cost a fair bit as you will need to get hold of all the following bits, and a few other minor bits

Frame
Headstock
Yokes
forks/spindle
Wheels/discs/callipers
mastercylinders/hoses
Bars/throttle
tacho
Swingarm/hub/rear brake
Shock/linkage
subframe
ECU/Harness/coils
Tank/pump
Fairing/bracket/seat unit
Engine/injectors
radiator/oil cooler
foot rests/gear change
Chain/sprockets
battery/reg-rec/solinoid
Exhaust

start pricing up the bits, allowing for your choice of part, such as Ohlins shock, sps engine, Brembo radial master cylinders or what ever and then you could always add in a slipper clutch, quick change sprocket carrier etc.

or expect to pay around £3k for something like my 916 Strada race bike, without things like the 54mm exhaust, or mag wheels etc

[Rattler]

....I'm hoping to get similar to your Strada 916 race bike, by getting an insurance write-off and re-building it or getting an old race bike that may have a V5 etc...

Where can I go for insurance write-offs?

In the short-term, I may just get a R6 anyway, just to make it simpler - decided which of yours is for sale yet?

Ta
Tim

[skidlids]

Not yet as i've been out enjoying the lovely weather, my 916, country roads and the company of a few mates. Will have a think about it next week providing my race preperation for Donington next weekend goes smoothly. Racing the Strada in the SoT class and the R6 in the Powerbike.

Strada will be up for sale in a couple of months as more of a trackday bike as it will be fitted with a re-cored 996 exhaust, Ohlins shock, but little else in the way of Extras as most trick bits will be fitted to the new race bike.
Dallas gets first refusal on it as its his old bike, but as he has now fitted a 748SP engine into his 748RS Chassis and is thinking about getting a 853 kit he may not be interested.
Kev

[Felix]

Skidlids, what's reason for fitting an SP engine into an RS bike?

[Jon]

Tim, have you thought about getting a 853 .

Jon

[Rattler]

....do you know of any going cheap then?

Tim

[Lily]

Tim

The way things are going I may know of a very nice 748r coming on the market...one careful lady owner...

[Rattler]

How are things going with the repairs?
Got any parts yet?

Tim

[Jon]

Not at the moment Tim, ask Nelly about it
he can do either 853 or 955.

[skidlids]

Felix, I think Dallas had several reasons for fitting the SP engine, one was to raise some cash, he originally tried to sell the whole bike for about £7k, but no serious takers, so to raise the money he sold off alot of his goodies, Radial Master cylinders Mag swingarn etc and then the engine.
other reasons for selling the engine was that it wasn't really suitable for road use as the bike is road registered, he found it to revy and a pain at low speeds, also the cost of servicing was a factor. Then he didn't really get on with on the race track with its revy nature after originally racing a 916.
why a 748SP engine ?, because I had it lying around and let him have it at a good price with a have it now pay later deal.

[Lily]

To be honest it doesn't need that much work, just as usual I managed to dink all the expensive bits!

Looking ok so far. Gonna try and drop the forks out in next couple of days and take them into KAIS to get checked out. Then just get the plastic out and start to rebuild!

Also everyone has red bits and I am hoping to try and keep the bike as standard as possible!

[Whele]

Ratler whats wrong with getting the SPS on the track? - it takes me exactly 20 minutes to change my front and rear wheels, remove my rear mudguard and mirrors from my SPS and 30 seconds to stick a round piece of sticky plastic over the front headlight aperture.

Ready to go racing.

Only one bike to maintain, insured against theft at the track or whilst in transit, opens up entry to streetstock class and most importantly only one bike to get used to. It also gives justification for chucking loads of extra cash at tuning mods.

Most common argument against racing the road going bike is that they cant afford to chuck it down the road. Hows that work then??? Doesn't it cost the same amount to repair the track duke as the road duke? I don't race to crash-....-and if I was capable of riding to the handling/performance limit of a Ducati, I would probably be in BSB with sponsors paying for repairs!

[JPM]

You could always buy a nice 996, with a track day kit, slipper, AP brakes, loads of other nmice bits, and just run it on the track....

(hint)

:cool:

[muttsnuts]

Tim, give me a call and also pick up your voicemail etc, then give me a CALL !

[pguenet]

Tim

He he he glad to see that my post might have changed your mind about the 996R vs track bike!! ;-)

I have been through that loop and I was even bidding at those crash/repairable auctions in Canway Island (check www.hbc.co.uk) but never got anything out of there. In the end I bought a cheap 748 that I was planning to turn up into a track bike... what a mistake!!

It is actually much better value getting yourself an ex-race bike. Those go quite cheap and you don't have the hassle of changing the whole fairing & lights, etc... and trading over a month on Ebay! It's all done for you and racers generally have maintained the bike well (regular oil / belt change, etc...).

I got mine for £4000. It is a 916 with Brembo GP Master Cyl, fully floating brembo cast iron discs (well now these have been changed for PFMs), techtronic quickshifter, full track body work, 50mm half system, 1 set of wets on wheels (virtually new).
Check with 998Addict he was selling his as well for a bit more money but with more extras too.

Only problems with the 916 I got was, set of Rennsports needed changing, wiring loom is quite dodgy (many thanks to Nelly to sort that out), cambelts needed changing, valve clearance is quite off and will need to be arranged. But I would have had the same issues with any other bike.

It is a bad time for you to buy such bike though because it is the middle of the season. If you can wait a little I might actually sell mine for a 996 later in the year since the team I know might be selling their 996.

If you go ahead with buying one, let me know too as I have been through that loop and have now some contacts with some race tuners that could help you out.

Cheers
philippe

[Rattler]

......I'm still considering my options.

Whele - the SPS takes me a lot longer to get sorted than 20 mins, as I change the fairings, tank, wheels, remove, lights, indicators etc.... I swap all of this as I don't want to break anything expensive!

Its just a pain having to change all of these things over each time and if I leave her in track trim, then she doesn't get out on the road.

Its peace of mind, as I know I wouldn't go as quickly if I had road stuff on.

So its a track dedicated Ducati or.......

..........the easiest thing to do may be to get a track/race R6/CBR or similar, there are a few around, some with mild tuning, some standard spec... , these things are quick enough, some of them are putting out around 115BHP at the back wheel - lovely!!
But its not a Ducati!!!!

But to match this power, you either need a SPS or a well sorted 996. Not being too hot on the maintenance side, the R6 will probably require less maint than a tuned 916 and when it does, it'll be cheaper!!!

Saying that, I haven't seen any track Ducatis for sale anyway, so at the moment, there's little to compare.

Phil - you;re right about a change of mind, maybe I'll get a 996R as well!!!

Tim

[pguenet]

heavily tuned 600cc (ie. ones capable of winning Bemsee / MRO series) would put out about 115bhp / 120bhp at the wheel ... but you forgot to ask about power band and torque mate!!!

Ducati have much more power down the curve and you cannot compare riding an in-line 4 with a twin. I have been thinking that too and tried an R1 and that told me that this wasn't for me. I love Dukes and in the end you want to ride something that you love and enjoy it!
Also it would be weird for you being on a Duke on the road and a 4 on the track. Too much adapatation both ways.

Then you start thinking Aprilia Mille ... lot more value for money than a Duke indeed... but have you sat on one?? It is so big and bulky that I did not feel happy with it ... so back looking for a Duke then!!! ;-)

Come on, once one a Duke, never on another bike!!

[skidlids]

Your probably right about the maintenance on a R6 being less Tim, they are also less hassle when it comes to changing gearing for different tracks, no quick change sprocket carrier need, just the sprockets and no ride height to worry about. Plus the major saving on not having to replace cambelts.
Last time out which was Darley moor I was one second a lap slower on my R6 than I was on my 916 Strada, with the R6 in Proddy spec (No tuning, no rearsets etc) where as the 916 has 54mm Exhaust, cast floating brakes, Radial M/cylinder, Harris rearsets etc. And that was my first time racing the R6.
I will be comparing the two bikes again at Donington this coming Saturday, to find out if a bit more time on the R6 will close the gap in lap times.
I suspect even in proddy trim the R6 is a better short circuit bike than my old V&M CBR600, which allowed me to lap Brands Indy circuit in 57 secs back in 1999, so I would hope to go quicker on the R6.
And as for on the road check out the bike in 25th place in the 1000cc Proddy TT ( http://www.iomtt.com/results/2003/Prod.pdf ) I know it says 1000 Yamaha, but I can assure you its my R6 and yes the organisers do know we got caught, hence no Bronze replica or start money for that race. Just needsa a bloddy good rider to get the best out of one and of course a bit of tuning wouldn't hurt

[Rattler]

.....I was thinking about a Mille too!!!!

Phil - it seems that you are ahead of me on this one.

So - I just need to find a race Ducati now!!!

Tim

[andy bentley]

Tim,

I'm no track day man, but I have been keeping an eye on the MCN race section and like Philippe says, you can pick up a 'proper' race bike for very little cash, especially towards the end of the season. There was a set of two Dukes, the whole tyre warming bit and the tour bus!

I know that's not what you're after, but I would keep one for the road, to avoid repeating the same of tasks every time you take it to the track and to avoid detracting from the originality of the bike - lets face it we all lose cash on after market stuff.

There's all sorts in the race section - and if you bide your time, you'll drop on a real beauty. There are a lot of cash strapped race teams out there.

My humble opinion anyway - that's how I'd do it.

Andy

[pguenet]

Oh and while we are at it, another thing to consider... Once you have a track bike, you will do a lot of the maintenance yourself because it would be too expensive letting the service shop to do all the basic things (very often).

I believe it is better sticking with what you have started knowing and trouble shooting on the road. Also once you start being equiped with the relevant tools for the job for one make, you don't want to double everything up with another make!

Some will argue that Jap stuff doesn't go wrong and is easy to fix with simple tools. They are probably right but I have not ventured in this unknown. Just learning a lot about Ducatis at the moment!

[Felix]

Thanks, skidlids. Yes, I would not think the RS engine would be too enjoyable n the road. 7k and no serious offers?! That's a bargain!

[Dobber1]

theres a crash damaged 916 for sale here
www.bandwmotorcycles.com

[Rattler]

......but t'is already sold!!!

Tim