View Full Version : LEGAL HELP!!-MINICHAMPS test bike
Right,if you've been following the threads on Minichamps you'll know that i recently purchased a Minichamps Test bike from Germany.I e-mailed Minichamps with pics BEFORE i bought it,asking details about it but they said they couldn't be sure because the pics were so poor.I bought the bike and then sent better pics to them,asking again details of the bike.They were still non commital,asking where i got it and where it was now.I have spoken to them today and they STILL can't/won't confirm if it's genuine.They are now asking me for details of the seller(address etc),based on the fact they think it MAY be fake.I had deleted all the e-mails relating to the sale ,but could with a bit of digging no doubt find them.BUT don't think it's right.They said they would go through e-bay,before passing it on there legal team.Where do i stand on this?IF it's fake,am i guilty of receiving illegal goods?Do i have to give it back?As it was advertised as a Hodgson 2000,came in a Hodgson 2000 box,i could plead "ignorance"!!All a bit confusing!!:o
[Edited on 2-5-2005 by Jasper]
[Edited on 2-5-2005 by Jasper]
Tell them you'll give them all the information you have IF they give you 5 minichamps bikes :D
DaveB916
02-May-2005, 11:15
Best you park that little Ducati beauty in my garage for a couple of years, you won't be needing it where you are going.........and won't be able to sit on it for weeks after getting out.........lololol
Only joking not a clue mate, but love the bike!!!!
There's nothing illegal about buying a fake, and no-one can demand it's return for that reason. Only trouble is if it IS a fake then you've been shafted.
you bought it all in good faith. because it wasnt a Hodgson inside matters little as You accepted this. if they ask for it I would tell them no way. If its a fake then obviously your loss mate, although it is a beauty and i would still have it. Why would someone go to the trouble to make a fake bike when there wasnt an original:puzzled:
On no account send it anywhere mate, keep hold. let Minichamps do the work now, you asked them for their help and they were not that forth coming with it, so let them work it out.
keep us posted.
How does it stand up regarding quality compared to your originals?
[Edited on 2-5-2005 by adam]
If it's a fake, then you are the victim. Minichamps have no right to request the bike be sent to them, it's your property to do with as you choose.
If it is a fake, then you have a right to make a criminal claim against the seller, as do Minichamps, but if you honestly no longer have the sellers details other than that from ebay, you can't give them anything more.
It's not an offense to buy or own a fake, but it is an offense to produce and sell fake goods (all sorts of standards, copyright rules etc).
I'd be keeping very tight hold of the bike, if they want it back, I'm inclined to think there's more to it than it being a potential fake, if it was they'd just say, "it's a fake, where did you buy it" and that'd be it.
I agree with Adam that you just keep a tight hold and let Minichamps do the rest. I'd just send them this link and say, I got it from here...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6955958351&translate=no&ssPageName=LanguageToggle
[Edited on 2-5-2005 by Mr_S]
Adam,the quality is PERFECT,jsut as you would expect from a Minichamps.If this is indeed a "fake",somebody has put in alot of effort.I am more inclined to think it is a pre-production model that never got produced.So,if it is,it would maybe explain why Minichamps are so eager to get it back?I am certainly not going to send it back to them,without appropriate "recompense".A Bayliss 2000 would be nice!!:D
Originally posted by Jasper
I am certainly not going to send it back to them,without appropriate "recompense".A Bayliss 2000 would be nice!!:D
Is that all????
Well,this just gets better!!I have received from e-bay a notification that Minichamps have declared the sale "Illegal" due to the fact that they own the rights to all the Minichamps models and that they shouldn't be allowed for sale on e-bay!!Yeh,Right!!E-bay have told me as far as they are concerned the sale is perfectly legal and the bike is mine.They have withdrawn the original listing though.The more Minichamps do this to me,the more it will cost them if they want it back.'cos it's my precious.Mine i say!! MINE!!:D
So,that will be a Corser '99,Bayliss 2000 and...............................We shall have to wait and see!
This bike is NO fake!I shall post the letter e-bay sent,as soon as i get a proper translation(it's in German!).
good on you jasper, i think your right on it being a stolen pre production model though.
people are changing them around now, theres a gauloises rossi on ebay now thats been professionally altered, keep hold of you foggy/hodgy test bike mate, you paid for it fair and square
at the minimum you want a proper expalnation from minichamps as to what model it is ?
Bionicle
02-May-2005, 19:26
Thanks for the phone call Jasper, your new identity is in the post along with passport and legitimate work visa for outer mongolia, your one way flight ticket is included :saint:
Translation will be with you ASAP but as far as her indoors has said, your in the clear, same here, If Paul´s Model Art GmbH & Co require more details concerning the bike, contact a lawyer to hold it for you and inform them they can see the bike at your lawyers in your presence if they wish to confirm its authenticity, to do this they will need to bring a duplicate bike along for comparison. however it will not mean you need to hand it over to them but it will clear up if its a legit product
good idea bionicle, if they make the effort to fly in from germany at least you'll know have something special jasper
Jasper?Who's this Jasper?Never heard of him!You must have me mixed up with someone else!Anyone want a blue Minichamps-"Off the back of a lorry"?!!!:D
all this to get your name in the papers:lol:
Twinfan
02-May-2005, 21:07
Wow - crazy story!!! If it was a fake, wouldn't the seller have advertised it as an "Ultra Rare Foggy Test Bike", not a Hodgson 2000? You bought it, as described, via a legal transaction. If it is a fake, what is it a fake of?? OK it's in a Minichamps box, and appears to be a Minichamps model, but it's not a model they list. It's not like the model you bought is a 1999 Corser, or a 2003 Hodgson is it??
As long as it's not been reported stolen, you are the legal owner and keeper. Do not tell Minichamps your address. Have they requested the bike back? On what grounds?
I personally think you have something they're VERY interested in, but I'm curious to know what. Minichamps are based in Germany, so maybe an employee made this bike at work and they're worried more 'specials' may appear on the market? That would explain the severity with which Minichamps are taking this. Is an insider trying to exploit Minichamps' collectability?
Bionicle
02-May-2005, 21:41
Jasp you have mail
i still think he is seeking attention:D
on a more serious note mate you are probably aware that you have a very special bike. Now how would you put a value on it for say insurance if there is only one of them around.
If i were you and Minichamps said they would swap it for what you want the answer would be no chance. You can buy the ones you are after when they come along, but that one you have will never again come up for sale.
Give it pride of place in your collection. ENJOY
Twinfan
02-May-2005, 22:47
Still don't understand my Minichamps are going down the 'fake' route. If it's a lost prototype (for example), then why not say so???
This is the e-mail from e-bay:
It is with regret that we have to inform you that the offer
6955958351 -Minichamps Ducati 996 Superbike 2000 NEIL HODGSON selte
you bidded for has been removed from our database on request of Paul´s Model Art GmbH & Co. KG
Paul´s Model Art GmbH & Co. KG is a member of the eBay VeRI-Program (verified copyrightowner program) and insures us, that an offered Produkt or in the offer included material damages their copyright, label or other rights. eBay can not make comments on the autheticity of the wares but takes the necessary measures, if so requested by the copyright owner.
Inspite of the belated cancelling of the auction through eBay you are still bound to the contract. If however there was a breach of a statutory prohibition the contract could be declared void.
To clarify your specific case we advise you to seek legal advice from qualified legal advice centre or a solicitor.
Please note that by removing the offer there is no possibility for rating by either party.
The question is:If Minichamps are saying they have the rights to ALL the Minichamps sales,why have they just removed MY auction and no others?As Paul(Bionicle) has said to me,no doubt they will be in touch in the next few days.(Thanks for the translation!)
Minichamps have not asked for the bike back,said what it is(but "hinted" it may be fake,but they would let me know in a few days!),when it was made or anything.Thing is,i e-mailed them BEFORE i bought it,with pics,and all they said was that the pics weren't good enough!
We shall see.I see a temporary change of avatar coming along!!:devil:
[Edited on 2-5-2005 by Jasper]
baylissboy
03-May-2005, 12:48
Bloody hell!!
Have MI5 been imformed???:cool:
Twinfan
03-May-2005, 12:55
They have only removed yours from eBay because of the 'uncertainty' about the model. If it was a Hodgson 2000 in a Hodgson 2000 box there would be no problem.
Let me know how you get on - I'm fascinated :D
WTF!!! :puzzled:
This is crazy :o
Maybe Bin Laden is selling Minichamps to raise founds for terrorism.... :rolleye:
Nattyboy
03-May-2005, 19:31
Jasper...was round my mates for a barbie on Monday, who is a huge collector of minichamps.
Hes 99% sure its a bitsa as apparently you can get spares and decal kits....??
Nat
[Edited on 3-5-2005 by Nattyboy]
[Edited on 3-5-2005 by Nattyboy]
Twinfan
03-May-2005, 19:39
Interesting...
You can?Are you sure?Look at it this way,if you could get spares and decals,i would just get a 996 and get a Bayliss 2000 bodywork set.Same with a Corser 1999,people would just get a Foggy 99(quite easy) and put Corsers bodywork on it.Saving £450-£500.Also,if you could get the decals,why would Minichamps get so upset and secretive?They would just say "someones bought a set of 1999 decals and put them on a bike,this is not an original".Instead they have refused to comment so far.Sorry,Nat,ithink there is more to it than that.I may yet be proven wrong-it won't be the first time!!!:D
Twinfan
03-May-2005, 20:27
Any contact form them today Jasper?
No mate.I did ring them at lunch time,but they were at lunch-TYPICAL!!:D
Twinfan
03-May-2005, 20:41
:lol:
Not entirely sure I agree with you about the bitsa theory, Jasper. You could re-badge your 1999 Foggy as a Corser, but you wouldn't have the box. I'd be very wary about paying for a 1999 Corser without a box, given the prevalence of 1999 Foggys and the fact that you'd only have to change a couple of decals.
Maybe your bike was originally a 2000 Hodgson (hence the box) and somewhere along the line it's been treated to strip and rebuild with Foggy decals and custom paint. Quite why, who knows???
But at the end of the day you would have a bike in the colour scheme you wanted.I kno what you are saying about the boxes,but i want the bikes not the boxes!Also(i know this sounds piccy!) but the Hodgsons come with BLACK paddock stands,not red),plus they have AP racing brakes,not Brembo.Trust me,if someone has made this model,it is PERFECT!!
you can get the declas set made up professionally but im not sure about the rest of it, like you say japser theres a difference between the spec of the bikes and the stands are different. i'd have a bet at it being a employee with a over imaginative imagination who got bored at work and played around with the paint and graphics
getting more and more interesting by the day i must add
Twinfan
03-May-2005, 23:06
getting more and more interesting by the day i must add
My thoughts exactly!
baylissboy
04-May-2005, 13:49
I've never heard of spares been produced!!
That would make it easy to make "fakes"!!
I'm with Jasper,i think it was a pre-production model that some employee half inched!! Why would minichamps be so interested & want it back if it was a fake?
Keep us imformed!!
whats the latest or arent you allowed to say for legal reasons :P:D
I think the Minichamps army have taken him prisoner:lol:
I have e-mailed them basically asking:
Is the bike official
do they do spares
if they think it is a fake,why did they not tell me BEFORE i bought it
Asked why they withdrew the auction as a breach of copyright
told them i had some people wanting to buy it
Told them i was an honest bloke and they weren't being straight with me!
We shall wait and see.I'll let you know as soon as they reply
Twinfan
05-May-2005, 10:27
Nice one matey - they have to answer that lot, surely??? :D
No reply today!:puzzled::mad:
Twinfan
05-May-2005, 19:51
Mail them again...and again...and again...
Shall i put it on e-bay for a laugh and see what happens?:D
you will end up paying ebay fees, unless you pull it just before the finish. Ill bid £800 straight away then someone else can whack another few hundred on that.
Hang on, I might get caught out here and end up paying £800.;)
Oh,i would pull it.But i think Minichamps would pull it first!
Twinfan
06-May-2005, 19:34
Any news today Jasper?
No,nothing.I will ring them on Monday!!:flame:
Twinfan
06-May-2005, 20:51
Let us know how you get on :D
I tell you,i'm going to put it on ebay.Just for a laugh."extremely rare Minichamps,i cannot vouch for it's authenticity etc.But please contact Minichamps for details""Lets see how long it lasts!!:devil:
if you dont want it i'll start the dsc bidding at £5 mate, sold as seen mind you
Deej,that's so generous of you.In fact,would you mind taking it off my hands and i'll give you £5!!:D
again to add very interesting. If everything that was on e-bay that was fake was removed there would be half as much stuff on there. Try looking at designer named stuff, - my wife seems to collect handbags, - and some of the wording is very clever on the adverts.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15728&item=5389474537&rd=1
This is very unlikley to be the real thing, - it uses the word authentic rather than genuine, - it's worth 5 times what it has sold for.
I know minichamps are far more nteresting, I will ge my coat....
yes jasper i'll take it off your hands with pleasure especially if your paying, will be much cheaper than a lawyer when the germans come to get their stolen property back :lol::lol::lol::lol:
Deej,i don't care what everybody else says about you,i think you are as Generous as they come!!:D
never say the cornish arent generous
we were the experts at smuggling once so if you need a disused cave or mineshaft to hide/lose it in give us a bell:roll:
Twinfan
09-May-2005, 14:02
Did you ring them Jasper?
Old Yella
09-May-2005, 14:25
HEs gone into hiding
Jasper if you end up taking a trip to germany let me know as we can go and visit that guy who tried to swindle us both.:D
Ok,Update on "The Rarest of the rare"!!.I have talked to Minichamps today and received the following e-mail as confirmation of the conversation>basically it IS a Minichamps that was produced by hand as a Pre-production model that was then not produced.The Model was NEVER intented to go on the general market!!When i asked whether they were prepared to confirm this to anybody that may e-mailthem,should i put it on e-bay,they said they would.Which was nice of them.
So,it's a VERY RARE Minichamps indeed.So,it looks like E-bay beckons,lets see what it's worth to all those that think they have them all(or all the 96/998's!!).
Please send all bids in a securicor van!:D
E-mail from Minichamps:
Hi,
thanks for your e-mail and your help.
I have discussed about this bike with my chief and the Project manager from us. We think that you have bought a decoration bike / Handsample and we have not produced this bike in this colour for the general market.
We have stopped the auction by ebay because we need the adress from the seller, but you don't fear something.
With best regards
Andreas
Twinfan
09-May-2005, 19:07
Interesting story! Nice to see it's been confirmed, and I can understand why they want the sellers details.
You should sell it to Adam :D
thankyou dave:roll:
As I have already said to jasper It would be great if minichamps sent a letter on their headed paper to confirm the bike. That makes it 100% and a nice addition to the bike.
[Edited on 9-5-2005 by adam]
£200!!!!!You having a laugh matey!!:DThose common as muck 1999 Corser and 2000 Bayliss's fetch £400!
lol. sorry. ok didnt mean to offend you. £150 and I will pay the postage.
;)
How about the £7.50 for the Hodgson first!!:D
£7.50? blimey, ive paid you too much.:lol:
Twinfan
09-May-2005, 22:11
A 2000 Reynolds went for £147 a short while ago. Prices seem to be on the up at the moment. There are at least 3 Hodgson 2000s on eBay at the moment too. Everyone's selling!
maybe they know something we dont:puzzled:
baylissboy
10-May-2005, 08:34
I'm begining to think that alot of these "rare" models aren't quite as rare as they're made out to be!!
The Hodgson 2000 & Reynolds 2000 come up quite often on the bay!!
But the true rare ones ie Bayliss 2000,Bostrom 2000 & Corser 99 only come up once in a bluemoon!I think alot of people bought the models just because they liked the look of them & now they see that they are fetching strong money they're selling them to cash in!
True collectors would sell any part of their collection just to make a few bob!!
Having said that,how much do you want for the test bike Jasper????:lol::lol:
I'm still watching that Corser 99,just waiting for the missus to turn her back!!!:lol::lol:
[Edited on 10-5-2005 by baylissboy]
like yuo sat its only the 3 early bikes that are rare as everybody only bought the foggy bike when it came out especially at £40 a go
the hodgy and reynolds bike arent as rare thats why theyre only going upto £150/200 but it always seems to be the same people bidding on them each time.
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