Any thoughts on 2006? [Archive] - Ducati Sporting Club UK

08-May-2005, 21:47

Originally posted by TP
Well ... lots of interesting stuff could be done I think. It's a bit exciting to be in situation to suggest these changes and actually have a possibility that one of them will be adopted.

So - lots of ideas about how it could be progressed. First of all, I think it would benefit the club to keep the current desmo due series going - to allow the entry level racing.

I have two idea's about another championship that could be run alongside it. First is running 900SS's and the second is running 748's (no R's or SPS's though) Same deal with regards to engine mods, FI is free, shock free, fork internals free, clutch free but the heads aren't allowed to be touched. I would include any road legal tyre with warmers and wets.

I forgot to say, an 8 round series as well :D

And I'd prefer a 748 series to be honest - I think it would be pretty cool.

08-May-2005, 21:53

2 sections within the starter class: 620's and std 583's
Means it wouldnt be too expensive for new entries:) keep control tyre & all susp etc as now.

add in a class for up to 900's - all mods permitted warmers/wets - the lot, and Bobs your uncles auntie:D

C

skidlids

08-May-2005, 21:57

I rember having a discussion last year on Bikes for a DSC race series, the class would have included 748's no engine tuning, no R's or RS's, 900SSie again no engine tuning and 900SS's allowed to use 944 kits and free carbs. Sadly since that discussion I have sold the 748 I trackdayed and raced last year to enable me to do the Desmo Due series.
Only real change I would like for next year is seperate classes for the differnt types of Desmo Due. Happy enough to have wets introduced but not to bothered about warmers if we used Diablo Corsas alongside wets.

domski

08-May-2005, 22:04

748's seem to be way cheaper than 800ie's too, if there was a 900ss/800ie class.

16 x 748's on biketrader for under £4000 (same as a 620)

I think the main issue would be getting enough people in both classes, otherwise could end up with 15 x 600's and 10 x 748's.

phoenix n max

08-May-2005, 22:08

I'd like to see a 583 class but i'm biased ;) I'm happy not to have warmers but wets would be nice even though it increases cost. I think the tyres behaved very well on the whole.

08-May-2005, 22:08

Originally posted by domskidue
I think the main issue would be getting enough people in both classes, otherwise could end up with 15 x 600's and 10 x 748's.

Fair point. I think we'd end up with more though, but I can't substantiate that, just a gut feeling.

psychlist

08-May-2005, 22:20

"Don't run before you can walk"

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Etc. Etc.

Some of us haven't even got to grips with THIS year yet and already there's talk of changes for next year? Trying to do this on a budget is looking nigh on impossible!

When this DD series proves the success at the end of the year that it appears to be already then there MAY be a case for expanding the DSC range of races but after the tremendous effort put in by the organisers to get this series off the ground we should all be working towards maintaining it's attraction and ensuring it not only continues next year but is just as successful ;)
We've got the field as level as reasonably possible at the moment, wet tyres (more cost) means spare wheels (more cost) and tyre warmers (more cost) at Cadwell would probably have been a waste of money anyway.
Somebody give Dom a chess-computer to keep him occupied please :lol: :P :lol:

08-May-2005, 22:21

Originally posted by phoenix n max
I'd like to see a 583 class but i'm biased ;)

I agree Lin:) not just cos we have a 583, but there are likely to be more of the 97 - 2001/2 M600's that will be coming on sale. Also, add in the 600ss' that also could be about, and you could have almost an equal playing field.
There were limited BB kits for the older bikes this year and none for the later carbed ones, so factoring this in, to split the class could be the way to go.

Originally posted by phoenix n max
I'm happy not to have warmers but wets would be nice even though it increases cost. I think the tyres behaved very well on the whole.

again, the option to take this up would be usable - riders choice dependants on their budget. But keep it as an option.
As Ian (old man) said in another thread - he was glad to have the exisiting tyres, as he wasnt worrying to much at being held in the paddock due to a hold up at the end of the previous race.

C:)

ali

08-May-2005, 22:25

900ss/sl/monsters, absolutely no engine work, free shock and free fork internals, standard brakes, diablos, free exhaust, free air filters/jets.

Loads of em about for less than a 600, cheaper parts than a 600, more high-sides than a 600!:D

My 2p; any 4V series is going to cost a bloody fortune, as much as I'd love to race a 748 :ninja:

Ali

08-May-2005, 22:28

First up - Paul, we're just putting forward some idea's is all. I think the current Desmo Due series is, and will continue to be, a roaring success.

Which is why I think it should be maintained into 2006 - even at the expense of any other DSC series starting. I personally would love to see a 748 series get off the ground as well and I'd love to take part in that - Desmo Due and Desmo Quattro. Although Ange (my wife for those not aware) would prefer me to stay in Desmo Due as I've already spent the money on the bike etc ... It would stop me talking about minitwins though and I think she would appreciate that :D :frog:

I can but dream ...

domski

08-May-2005, 22:31

Originally posted by TP
we're just putting forward some idea's is all.

...and I'm bored again :lol::lol::lol:

You lot will be wrapping me in cotton wool at Castle Combe to ensure I don't break any bones again :lol:

08-May-2005, 22:33

Originally posted by domskidue
...and I'm bored again :lol::lol::lol:

You lot will be wrapping me in cotton wool at Castle Combe to ensure I don't break any bones again :lol:

Nah, you're finding some pace - I'll be breaking your arms but making sure I do your fingers as well though ;)

domski

08-May-2005, 22:36

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I nearly fell off my chair then ;):D

08-May-2005, 22:37

Originally posted by domskidue
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I nearly fell off my chair then ;):D

Did you break anything?

:frog:

phoenix n max

08-May-2005, 22:42

Originally posted by TP
It would stop me talking about minitwins though

Pah - race a Sluiceooki over a Ducati ? :o

08-May-2005, 22:43

Originally posted by phoenix n max
Originally posted by TP
It would stop me talking about minitwins though

Pah - race a Sluiceooki over a Ducati ? :o

Nup - race an 800SS against the Sluiceooki's

New rules allow air-cooled bikes up to 820cc to run in minitwins.

domski

08-May-2005, 22:44

Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by domskidue
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I nearly fell off my chair then ;):D

Did you break anything?

:frog:

Wind!! :o:saint:

phoenix n max

08-May-2005, 22:45

Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by phoenix n max
Originally posted by TP
It would stop me talking about minitwins though

Pah - race a Sluiceooki over a Ducati ? :o

Nup - race an 800SS against the Sluiceooki's

New rules allow air-cooled bikes up to 820cc to run in minitwins.

Thats more like it :)

skidlids

08-May-2005, 22:53

So how much would a Ducati 750ie cost, got to be cheaper than the newer 800's and could still be a cheap laugh in Mini twins. Would the 750ie engine be a straight swap with a 620

Loz

08-May-2005, 22:58

Originally posted by skidlids
So how much would a Ducati 750ie cost, got to be cheaper than the newer 800's and could still be a cheap laugh in Mini twins. Would the 750ie engine be a straight swap with a 620

Hi Kev
You can have my Y-plate 750Sport for £3000, but you're not allowed to look at it first (or know the mileage)!
:lol:
I believe the engine is a straight swap with the 620.

08-May-2005, 22:59

Originally posted by skidlids
So how much would a Ducati 750ie cost, got to be cheaper than the newer 800's and could still be a cheap laugh in Mini twins. Would the 750ie engine be a straight swap with a 620

NFI mate, haven't looked into it.

I was looking at buying a M800 or something. The ohlins shock I bought will fit the M800 but not the S2R so could be a plan for me if I went that way.

If there was a 748 DSC Desmo Quattro series I'd be keen on that I think.

Given the amount of spares around and fairings etc for these bikes I can't see how they would be much more expensive than a 900SS/monster series.

Obviously I acknowledge that my knowledge in this area isn't my strongest point so can anyone plump up some rough numbers that would show the 748 series being more expensive? Ali?

Monty

08-May-2005, 23:00

Ok, some thought behind the series we have NOW.
We thought of 748's-bit expensive, not to buy but to maintain so not really an entry level bike.
The original DesmoDue idea was to use 750's-which got changed since they are conparatively rare.
I wanted 900's since there are loads of them about-but got outvoted since they are faster and heavier so as Ali said-more highsides.
So we settled on 600's and apart from the 583-620 debate it looks pretty good don't you think-was certainly a big topic of conversation at Donnington today.

John

08-May-2005, 23:01

the 620's use the part of the 750 engine Kev, thats why they are miles away from the 600's in bhp/power

Regrettably, the M750ie was only sold in the UK from Nov 2001 to July 2002, (any after that were 'old stock' bikes, pre 800ie launched in the late autumn 2002, which in turn was discontinued for the S2R launched last year) so they are quite a limited bike - like the M800ie's, tho I dont know about the 'ss's.

C

08-May-2005, 23:02

Originally posted by Monty
Ok, some thought behind the series we have NOW.
We thought of 748's-bit expensive, not to buy but to maintain so not really an entry level bike.
The original DesmoDue idea was to use 750's-which got changed since they are conparatively rare.
I wanted 900's since there are loads of them about-but got outvoted since they are faster and heavier so as Ali said-more highsides.
So we settled on 600's and apart from the 583-620 debate it looks pretty good don't you think-was certainly a big topic of conversation at Donnington today.

John

What was the talk about today Monty?

I hasten to add that I would see any new series as being an addition to the current Desmo Due series.

skidlids

08-May-2005, 23:04

sold my old 916 Strada race bike with slipper clutch, Ohlins shock and a few other bits for £2800 and I sold my 748 racebike with the SP engine for less than that with spare wheels.
So going the 620 route is not necessarily the cheapest way into racing a Ducati,

08-May-2005, 23:07

Originally posted by skidlids
So going the 620 route is not necessarily the cheapest way into racing a Ducati,

which is why I think the field should be split for next year - saves newcomers spending lots on 620's or BB kits - can just run std 583's and still be in with a good chance in 'their' section:)

C

skidlids

08-May-2005, 23:11

Originally posted by Monty
So we settled on 600's and apart from the 583-620 debate it looks pretty good don't you think

I'm sure it will look alot different after the next two rounds where top speed is going to count a lot, there is no way my 583 will be able to pull the same gearing as a 674 or 620, especially the 6 speed ones.
At least I have a fairing, be handy if I could tuck in behind it.

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:11

It isn't just the cost of purchasing of the bike that is relevant here ... air-cooled 2Vs are cheaper to maintain than 4V jobbies, so the running costs for DesmoDue will always be less than for "DesmoQuattro". IMO.

domski

08-May-2005, 23:14

Originally posted by Loz
It isn't just the cost of purchasing of the bike that is relevant here ... air-cooled 2Vs are cheaper to maintain than 4V jobbies, so the running costs for DesmoDue will always be less than for "DesmoQuattro". IMO.

No one is disputing that Loz.

The idea of 748's or anything else would purely be an EXTRA class, not a replacement.

Obviously people then have a choice :)

08-May-2005, 23:19

Originally posted by Loz
It isn't just the cost of purchasing of the bike that is relevant here ... air-cooled 2Vs are cheaper to maintain than 4V jobbies, so the running costs for DesmoDue will always be less than for "DesmoQuattro". IMO.

It would be the overall cost that I would be looking at though. If we went down the 2V 800 route then the 748 would be significantly cheaper to buy and would therefore offer you the same overall cost or in fact be actually cheaper. The 2V 900 might be cheaper again. But if we already had the 'cheap' class as the Desmo Due series then I don't see why a slightly higher spec Desmo Quattro (or Desmo Due but larger capacity series) wouldn't be a great addition to the DSC racing calendar for '06.

Given that and if I had the choice I would choose to race a 4 valver. For me that's what they were designed for so it makes sense to do it - there's a sort of romantic appeal to it for me. Don't tell my wife I used that R word in a sentence!

If I had larger genitals I'd consider getting a 748R or similar and run it in the axe murderers next year.

But sadly I don't :(

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:19

Sure thing Dom, just answering Skidlids post. Although, I have a worry that by providing a choice of series, you may possibly split a finite "pot" of participants into two (or more) under-subscribed series. Maybe after a second year of Desmo Due is a good idea?

My personal opinion is that discussing an additional class at this time is premature - but I acknowledge people's right to do so ;)

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:25

Originally posted by TP
It would be the overall cost that I would be looking at though. If we went down the 2V 800 route then the 748 would be significantly cheaper to buy and would therefore offer you the same overall cost or in fact be actually cheaper.

Sorry Tony, but why would 748s be cheaper than 800s over the course of a season (assuming a conservative one crash out of six to eight meets)?

The 2V 900 might be cheaper again. But if we already had the 'cheap' class as the Desmo Due series then I don't see why a slightly higher spec Desmo Quattro (or Desmo Due but larger capacity series) wouldn't be a great addition to the DSC racing calendar for '06.

If you said 2007 calendar, you'd have no argument from me!

skidlids

08-May-2005, 23:25

Between myself and Dallas we ran the 916 Strada for over 3 seasons, just replaced the oil, filter and Belts on a regular basis and the clutch once, so was quite cheap to race only marginally more than my Fireblade and less than my TL as I kept spending money on trying to get my TL to handle properly.

08-May-2005, 23:29

Originally posted by Loz
Originally posted by TP
It would be the overall cost that I would be looking at though. If we went down the 2V 800 route then the 748 would be significantly cheaper to buy and would therefore offer you the same overall cost or in fact be actually cheaper.

Sorry Tony, but why would 748s be cheaper than 800s over the course of a season (assuming a conservative one crash out of six to eight meets)?

Because 748's are a lot cheaper to buy when compared to the 2V 800's

The 2V 900 might be cheaper again. But if we already had the 'cheap' class as the Desmo Due series then I don't see why a slightly higher spec Desmo Quattro (or Desmo Due but larger capacity series) wouldn't be a great addition to the DSC racing calendar for '06.

If you said 2007 calendar, you'd have no argument from me!

Why does it matter? What difference would it make to you, or anyone else if it there were two series on offer for DSC members next year?

Please bear in mind as well that we're merely thinking out loud. I've stated above clearly that I think the current Desmo Due series would take priority over, and perhaps at the expense of, any other series that could get off the ground.

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:31

Originally posted by skidlids
Between myself and Dallas we ran the 916 Strada for over 3 seasons, just replaced the oil, filter and Belts on a regular basis and the clutch once, so was quite cheap to race only marginally more than my Fireblade and less than my TL as I kept spending money on trying to get my TL to handle properly.

I wouldn't say a 4V can't be as cheap to race, just that, on average, it probably won't be. I'll be happy to be corrected, though.

08-May-2005, 23:31

Oh and one more point about 748's - there are BUCKET LOADS of spares and racing bits around for them because they've existed as a model for so long and their parts are, for the most part, interchangeable with their larger 4V brethren that were designed primarily as race machines.

Look at any race bodywork company and look at their standard offerings for example ...

domski

08-May-2005, 23:37

Personally, I think (without thinking too much) that the 900SS would be good.

However, is it enough of a jump? 20bhp over a 620?

Maybe it would need the attraction of slicks/wets & warmers?

I suppose the 748 has about 90-95bhp? and is a 'proper' race bike.

I think the 600DD series is 95% spot on at it's first attempt.

Splitting the 583, 675 & 620 up could be awkward, as a 583 class and a 620 class would be better (within one race), but what happens to the 675 boys? I think it would be too much to have 3 classes within one.

A single tyre with no wets/warmers for the 600's?

Otherwise you could have entry DD and expert(?) DD being too similar.

I dunno, just waffling on really :)

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:37

But would the cost of an 800 (purchase + running cost inc repairs) be more than for a 748? I'm not so sure.

The difference to me is (potentially) one fully-subscribed, successful DD series versus two under-subcribed, unsuccessful DSC series. I'm suggesting that DD be allowed to "bed-in" before diverting Club resources to a second series.

I'm just thinking aloud too, you know!

Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by Loz
Originally posted by TP
It would be the overall cost that I would be looking at though. If we went down the 2V 800 route then the 748 would be significantly cheaper to buy and would therefore offer you the same overall cost or in fact be actually cheaper.

Sorry Tony, but why would 748s be cheaper than 800s over the course of a season (assuming a conservative one crash out of six to eight meets)?

Because 748's are a lot cheaper to buy when compared to the 2V 800's

The 2V 900 might be cheaper again. But if we already had the 'cheap' class as the Desmo Due series then I don't see why a slightly higher spec Desmo Quattro (or Desmo Due but larger capacity series) wouldn't be a great addition to the DSC racing calendar for '06.

If you said 2007 calendar, you'd have no argument from me!

Why does it matter? What difference would it make to you, or anyone else if it there were two series on offer for DSC members next year?

Please bear in mind as well that we're merely thinking out loud. I've stated above clearly that I think the current Desmo Due series would take priority over, and perhaps at the expense of, any other series that could get off the ground.

domski

08-May-2005, 23:39

I can see DSC running it's own race club before too long ;):lol:

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:41

Originally posted by TP
Oh and one more point about 748's - there are BUCKET LOADS of spares and racing bits around for them because they've existed as a model for so long and their parts are, for the most part, interchangeable with their larger 4V brethren that were designed primarily as race machines.

Look at any race bodywork company and look at their standard offerings for example ...

Good points, Tony.
In any event DD would continue to be the entry-level racing (which is where I would be if I decide to take part) so I guess a second-level race series is neither here nor there for me for some while yet :)

domski

08-May-2005, 23:43

I'm sure that although some people may drop out this year for whatever reasons, by the end of the year there will be many many more DSC members who will want to sign up for 2006.

There is already 36 odd riders, so how would you accomodate a further 20?

You can't have a grid of 56, and some DD riders may want to 'move on' with their racing to progress and also give others a chance, so rather than turn people away, or lose them to Honda CBR600's or something, why not provide a further stepping stone on 748's or 900SS's?

Ha, got you there :roll:

08-May-2005, 23:48

Originally posted by Loz
But would the cost of an 800 (purchase + running cost inc repairs) be more than for a 748? I'm not so sure.

The difference to me is (potentially) one fully-subscribed, successful DD series versus two under-subcribed, unsuccessful DSC series. I'm suggesting that DD be allowed to "bed-in" before diverting Club resources to a second series.

I'm just thinking aloud too, you know!

Well there's a few things to consider there. I think that a 748 series could be cheaper than an 2V 800 series - but I only used that as an example because the same gut feeling tells me that a 2V 900 series would be cheaper again. But we wouldn't know without a spreadsheet and a bit of research, which I haven't done extensively.

I think there's a natural symmetry to running a 2V and 4V series within the club.

You do have a very valid point in terms of takeup. If there was a risk that the original Desmo Due series would take a hit then it would have to take priority. A devils advocate position could also be that the DSC will lose racers who want to progress beyond the current DD series and also lose existing racers in other classes that weren't attracted to DD as it stands. Who knows?

Perhaps a bit of research would be advisable ...

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:48

Dom, if you are right, that will be a great result for DSC - two fully subscribed race series would be wonderful.
I'm just cautious by nature (which is maybe one reason why I shouldn't do DD in 2006).

domski

08-May-2005, 23:50

Hey Loz, get yer butt out there next year. It's the most fun you can have EVER!!

Don't be put off by my broken bones :lol:

Loz

08-May-2005, 23:53

Originally posted by domskidue
Hey Loz, get yer butt out there next year. It's the most fun you can have EVER!!

Don't be put off by my broken bones :lol:

Dom, I would have been there NOW if the MT hadn't decided on 600's and against 750's. Who cares if my 750Sport is my transport to work every day, DD would have taken precendence! :lol:

PS, mend soon mate!

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by Loz]

ericthered40

09-May-2005, 00:47

Next year you could run two race groups to cope with numbers. A and B from timed practise.
That way the two types of bikes can stay as is and riders of all abilities could race more closely.
Then set up a 748 top class the year after, for riders wanting to move on but not disappear in to non-Ducati club racing.

domski

09-May-2005, 00:52

There's always one smart arse :lol::P

09-May-2005, 00:56

We clearly can't do that, I've just been cruising ebay and autotrader looking at 748's!

There's some interesting bikes on there at the moment. A 955 Corse track bike for example :o

An almost new 748RS!

:D :D :D :devil:

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by TP]

ericthered40

09-May-2005, 01:00

your gona end up in moto GP at the rate your goin:frog:

09-May-2005, 01:03

Originally posted by ericthered40
your gona end up in moto GP at the rate your goin:frog:

:lol: I wish

But I would like to end up in MRO in some series in the next 5 years.

Depends on how long Ange puts up with it for I guess. And what other sacrifices I'm prepared to make for it!

ericthered40

09-May-2005, 01:11

If you got this far and your still on speaking terms you’ve got yourself a diamond :lol::lol::lol:

ChrisBushell

09-May-2005, 06:51

Folks,

You have forgotten one thing in all these blinding suggestions, there are a group of people who dont race who have to put a lot of effort in to make it all happen so that you can race!

Given the level of work that it has taken to get this relatively "simple" series off the ground, you now seem to want multiple classes and much more expensive bikes.

Why dont we wait till September and have a meeting at Brands and talk about what is possible for 2006, nothing is going to be done in the short term. Get a few more meetings under your belts and the views will change.

Chris

butch890

09-May-2005, 07:05

our plan is to run a 4 bike team of 620 monsters for next year,so more of the same please!
Butch

dickieducati

09-May-2005, 10:10

my views, as of now, may change but i doubt it:

the series we have now should remain exactly as it is, there is no reason to change anything. it is a good entry level series for club members and should remain so. we want to keep new people coming into the series without fannying about with rules, engine sizesetc.

going forward; if,and when we have enough interest and realistically you are looking at 60+ racers then imho the 748 series is the way to go, again as other have said keeping it fairly simple on the rules and regs front. cant see the point of have 2 different DD series. DD and DQ is the way to go.

think in all honesty it is likely to be 2007 though. will be interesting to see how many people enter next year. a few people talking about it but talk is cheap. as we found out at the first race eh domski? ;)

p.s looked at the video of your 'torpedo'again at the weekend, very impressive rolling stoppie. bought the stuff i need to get it on the pc but now find out i havnt got a firewire on my pc! will sort it soon though.

fil2

09-May-2005, 10:15

why cant the series stay as it is for 2006...620ie and 600 with big bore kits..........keep it simple and reasonably affordable for people who want to enter the series. The only change i would like to see is a vote on wets n warmers and maybe allowing some engine work on the 600ss to bring it closer to the 620ie bhp numbers.
We have approx 34 entrants this season if we allow more mods and different bikes and run different classes we risk reducing the numbers and thinning the field for each class.!..whats better than having one class fielding 34 bikes..we all have battles feel like we are racing no matter where in the field we are.

My vote keep it the same for 2006 with maybe a few minor changes that WE ALL vote on.

And lets get this season over with first ........

Phil

Jools

09-May-2005, 10:40

Originally posted by domskidue
I can see DSC running it's own race club before too long ;):lol:

Hmmmm....I know Dom's comments are tongue in cheek, but that's exactly what I expressed big concerns about at the AGM.

Many a true word spoken in jest?

09-May-2005, 10:45

Originally posted by Jools
Originally posted by domskidue
I can see DSC running it's own race club before too long ;):lol:

Hmmmm....I know Dom's comments are tongue in cheek, but that's exactly what I expressed big concerns about at the AGM.

Many a true word spoken in jest?

Why would you see that as being a problem Jools?

It doesn't mean that racing activities would preclude anything else the club does. Say for example I put my hand up and got working on another series to run with DD, it could get another series off the ground and not have an adverse impact on you surely?(Shirley!)

All the other activities seem to be organised not just by the MT but by members, for example I give you Graham Bush and the BMF, with help from Fordie (and possibly others I'm not aware of). Another race series wouldn't impact the BMF.

Why do you see it as an negative?

fil2

09-May-2005, 10:50

why dont we just get this season over with first before we all start talking about next..??? we have only done 1 race meeting.

Come on lads lets concentrate on this season and making a success for the whole year rather than discussing the possibilities of next year.?

Phil

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

chicken

09-May-2005, 10:54

My tuppence is that DD was designed as an affordable way for people to dip their toes into the racing world and it is achieving its aims admirably. Other classes may be harded to keep a lid on.

A 748 class might be fairly cheap to get into, but would likely end up being expensive to be competitive as there is a huge differential in power and ability between the base and racing models over the years.

Even a 900SS/800SSie would be difficult to draw guidelines for, owing to the variety of ways that extra performance can be wringed out.

This is not to say that there shouldn't be an extra class, but that entrants should go in with their eyes open. The MT has done an awesome job of setting up the first series but remember that they are still experiencing a steep learning curve and to draw up rules for another series when the lessons from the current series are still coming in thick and fast may be a step too far.

cheers, Chi

dickieducati

09-May-2005, 11:06

Originally posted by fil2
why dont we just get this season over with first before we all start talking about next..??? we have only done 1 race meeting.

Come on lads lets concentrate on this season and making a success for the whole year rather than discussing the possibilities of next year.?

Phil

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

i'm sure thats what everyone will do, but i think you have to agree its very positive that people are tallking about next year already!

fil2

09-May-2005, 11:32

Originally posted by dickieducati
Originally posted by fil2
why dont we just get this season over with first before we all start talking about next..??? we have only done 1 race meeting.

Come on lads lets concentrate on this season and making a success for the whole year rather than discussing the possibilities of next year.?

Phil

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

i'm sure thats what everyone will do, but i think you have to agree its very positive that people are tallking about next year already!

Of course !. Although a little premature imho...we have done 1 race meeting.! and already we are talking about 748 racing etc etc.....we dont wanna start debate about next year already do we..????....LOL we aint finished this year yet........

Phil

domski

09-May-2005, 11:36

The idea of this thread was not to change the current series, but purely as a brainstorming type session to see what people may like to happen in the future.

The DD series is superb, no disputes that, but there is no harm in putting forward ideas about a second series to run along side the current series.

talk is cheap. as we found out at the first race eh domski?

That's harsh considering the circumstances ;)

domski

09-May-2005, 11:41

Originally posted by fil2
we dont wanna start debate about next year already do we..????....LOL we aint finished this year yet........

Phil

So we could leave it til the last minute and have a rush job around christmas?

No harm in having a chat about it now is there?

Get ideas out on the table and see how it develops.

Obviously a second class would be pointless if there are only 30 riders for next year, but because of the great support shown already in DD, there could be 50 or 60 riders next year (would be nice eh), so you couldn't really run 2 DD races, how would you work out the points?

Personally, I'll be sticking with DD in 2006 :D

dickieducati

09-May-2005, 11:43

yeah, only playing with you (so to speak). no doubt if you can string 8 laps together at the next race you'll be up there at the front. ;)

nearly took the stickers off mine as you blew past me......................still could have been worse!

domski

09-May-2005, 11:47

Originally posted by weeksy
Originally posted by dickieducati

nearly took the stickers off mine as you blew past me......................still could have been worse!

yeah he could have made it past the next corner ;)

:sniff::sniff::sniff::sniff::sniff::sniff::(

dickieducati

09-May-2005, 11:53

dom, all things being equal, and cash not being too much of an issue. would you step up to a 'stock' 748 series or would you rather do something else?

fil2

09-May-2005, 12:07

Originally posted by domskidue
The idea of this thread was not to change the current series, but purely as a brainstorming type session to see what people may like to happen in the future.

The DD series is superb, no disputes that, but there is no harm in putting forward ideas about a second series to run along side the current series.

talk is cheap. as we found out at the first race eh domski?

That's harsh considering the circumstances ;)

why have a second series.? why not run as it is with a few modifications that we agree on.?

Phil

fil2

09-May-2005, 12:11

debate all you want..LOL...u r all mini weeksy's now..debating till the end of the world LOL.....

Me im concentrating on this season

Phil

ps... and saving up for a 620injection for next year...... ;)

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

dickieducati

09-May-2005, 12:15

"Obviously a second class would be pointless if there are only 30 riders for next year, but because of the great support shown already in DD, there could be 50 or 60 riders next year (would be nice eh), so you couldn't really run 2 DD races" from domski.

to be fair , a fairly big assumption is being made here regarding future interest, buti think the max on any grid is 40.

even more assumptions but if we had 40 entrants for next year and the first race was at the woodland again, then there would be 10 (newcomers probably) not getting out there.

all ifs and and etc, but food for thought.

i certainly wont be missing out. when can i put my name down for next year?

:D

domski

09-May-2005, 12:15

Originally posted by fil2
why have a second series.? why not run as it is with a few modifications that we agree on.?

Phil

How would you accomodate 50+ riders then? :)

domski

09-May-2005, 12:17

Originally posted by dickieducati
dom, all things being equal, and cash not being too much of an issue. would you step up to a 'stock' 748 series or would you rather do something else?

Having made the error of running before I could walk in 1999, I would stick to the current DD series for a second season, even if I won it (which I won't) and even if I was a millionaire (which I'm not)

Although I have race experience, it's not as much as everyone thinks or makes out, and so I am starting all over again, but this time doing it properly.

:)

fil2

09-May-2005, 12:21

Originally posted by domskidue
Originally posted by fil2
why have a second series.? why not run as it is with a few modifications that we agree on.?

Phil

How would you accomodate 50+ riders then? :)

U know what they say about assumptions.....2 classes m8 obviously.....but 50+ is very opptomistic and remember the fast guys like you Tp etc will be on BSB rides next year surely!! so that will deplete the numbers...:P

i already have a 748 in the shed ready to go..LOL

Phil

09-May-2005, 12:36

Originally posted by fil2
U know what they say about assumptions.....2 classes m8 obviously.....but 50+ is very opptomistic and remember the fast guys like you Tp etc will be on BSB rides next year surely!! so that will deplete the numbers...:P

i already have a 748 in the shed ready to go..LOL

Phil

Ahh yes, but the series I'm dreaming up in my head won't allow 'R's! ;)

BSB eh? :lol:

Anyway ... the point is really just a bit of brainstorming, as Dom said. No harm in that and I can't see how it detracts from the current DD series.

If something was to go ahead then talking about it now could generate the idea's and momentum it needed to be fully ready for next year. Just a thought. If you're not thinking ahead your going backwards, as they love to say in meetings.

fil2

09-May-2005, 12:50

no R's huh..thats 'R'acist

Phil

PS..im tapping my sponsor up for a new 620ie next year

skidlids

09-May-2005, 14:12

Originally posted by dickieducati
even more assumptions but if we had 40 entrants for next year and the first race was at the woodland again, then there would be 10 (newcomers probably) not getting out there.

As it is a starter class and if numbers are sufficient I would expect the likes of myself, Paul Payne and Domski to bne ruled out on experience, leaving it to Novice Licence holders which would then rule out a few more the following year always leaving DD for newcomers to racing. If that did indeed happen then would it not be worth considering a 2nd class where people can move on to.
The deciding factor will be the number of members wanting to race. I could easily go back to doing SoT but if I did it probably wouldn't be on a Ducati more than likely a SV1000 after what I saw at Silverstone on Saturday, but there is a greater chance of me going back to the F600 clas on my GSXR.
And yes I am thinking about it now as this season will soon be over.

domski

09-May-2005, 14:23

999's it is then :lol:

uncledunnie

09-May-2005, 14:45

How about Desmo Due in its current form as the entry platform and.....

an open class running in parallel.

Any Ducati you want, minimal ACU regs, trackday bodywork - most serious t/day'ers have them - minimal outlay coz the bikes are already out there in our garages, road legal tyres and warmers. Sorted.

Entry criteria, must have been a DSC member as of March 2005 to qualify for 2006 (or7) season. Keeps the trophy hunters at bay.

Forget the level playing field and just run what you brung.

Ducati get to support all their models both old and new running in a race series.

I'd put off selling my 999 if this was a serious option.

Little bikes and novices in Desmo Due.

Big bikes and a bigger A&E waiting list in Desmo Open.

Jools

09-May-2005, 14:59

Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by Jools
Originally posted by domskidue
I can see DSC running it's own race club before too long ;):lol:

Hmmmm....I know Dom's comments are tongue in cheek, but that's exactly what I expressed big concerns about at the AGM.

Many a true word spoken in jest?

Why would you see that as being a problem Jools?

It doesn't mean that racing activities would preclude anything else the club does. Say for example I put my hand up and got working on another series to run with DD, it could get another series off the ground and not have an adverse impact on you surely?(Shirley!)

All the other activities seem to be organised not just by the MT but by members, for example I give you Graham Bush and the BMF, with help from Fordie (and possibly others I'm not aware of). Another race series wouldn't impact the BMF.

Why do you see it as an negative?

Well, I'm probably getting myself a reputation as someone who has got a real downer on DD, and that's not the case. Despite being greeted by a member of the management team at Cadwell with the words "have you just come here to moan" :mad: I really applaud everyone who has worked so hard to get it up and running. Fair play to the racers as well, who have sunk a lot of money and time into this, I think you're all doing us proud, and the racing is excellent to watch.

However, I have got some concerns about getting the right balance between the focus on DD and all the other club activities. When I spoke about it at the AGM, I just wanted the MT to be aware that running DD, without losing sight or focus on the clubs other activities would be a difficult challenge. I had some concern that DD would dominate. To a certain extent that has to be expected in it's first year and perhaps into subsequent years since it is a real first and a worthy flagship for the club. However, if we (as a club) are not careful we could see the racing bit start to take over to the point where the two parts of the club are no longer compatible. Who knows, the future may hold a Ducati Racing Club which span off from the boring old farts in the Ducati Sporting Club. I don't want that. I want to see a thriving race community in the framework of the existing club.

I'm not alone in this concern. When I piped up at the AGM there were a significant number of people who came up to me in the pub afterwards and said that they agreed with me. I've had several U2U's about it as well. These people, incidentally, are typically long standing and very active members, so I think that this is a valid viewpoint.

And, incidentally, as one of those people who will be on the DSC stand at the BMF on Friday, Saturday and Sunday I know that finding people to volunteer and organise this event - which is another real opportunity for club PR - was a hell of a lot more difficult this year and largely done by ordinary members slogging around trying to whip up support. It may just be my perception, but I haven't seen much MT involvement. I'm not pointing fingers here, the MT do the job voluntarily I know that they give a great deal of their time and do a damn good job.

Oh, I could go on...but I don't want to develop into the DSC DesmoDue bore (may be too late for that anyhow). I hope that if you know me personally, or judge me by my contribution to this board, you will know that I'm not anti DD, I'm not anti MT (if I could find the time I would volunteer to do more myself). I just hope my contributions are characterised by trying to maintain a sense of fair play and balance.

So. More power to DD, more power to the DSC...let's just try and maintain the balance for everyone. The recent VMan thread has shown that whatever side of that particular fence you sit on the DSC is a very rare and very special thing amongst clubs of it's type. I personally think the DSC 'ecosystem' is very finely balanced and fragile thing and if we don't keep it balanced carefully it may topple into something that would be a shadow of what it is now and could be in the future.

Oh...and don't call me Shirley, you can only do that every other weekend