Aren't Injection systems fun

[skidlids]

Feel like I've been going around in circles for most of the day

Phil the Drill returned Dallas's old bike back to me yesterday so I set about removing the Nemesis and replacing it with a reprogrammed 749 ECU.

No matter what I tried I just couldn't get it to turn over let alone start when connected to the 1098 dash, removing the CAN wires from the clock allowed it to turn over so on the 1098 it looks like the Dash immobilises the ECU Via the CAN line as well as the Key_Lock

So I reconfigured the dash connector and fitted a 749 Dash, hey presto the bike turned over and tried to start, but just wouldn't catch with enough revs for the starter circuit to drop out. Tried various things and still not getting any futher, felt like it needed more fuel.

Decided to swap the Linear non adjustable PF1C TPS for a two stage adjustable PF3C TPS. With this fitted I managed to find a setting that allowed the bike to Start and Run, just didn't seem to run very well. Rear pipe was getting warm but not as hot as the front pipe. Removed the plug which was a DR9EA and replaced it with a DPR8EA, Bike started and ran better with the rear pipe now getting very hot, I decided to also swap the front plug from a DR9EA to a DPR8EA.

Now with the Bike starting and running and with the 749 Dash monitoring Revs, Battery and Temps as it should. I connected the diagnostic to reat the TPS setting which was a rather large angle of 10.4 degrees.

Checked and noted down injection time and Ignition advance at 1300 rpm, which corresponded to the Map values, based on that info it looks like I will need to richen up the map at lower throttle openings so that I can back off the TPS and have the bike start, anything below 9 degrees and it didn't want to know.

With the Diagnostic still hooked up I refitted the PF1C Non adjustable TPS and got a closed throttle reading of 2.3 degrees, no way was the bike going to start and what was worse WOT came out at only 40 degrees and Not the expected 81 degrees.
So swapped the original PF1C TPS for a spare and every thing was hunky dory.

That was enough for today, so next step is to alter the fuel Map and richen it up in the area around closed throttle and then tomorrow flash it into the ECU and see where we are then. As the bike is only running open bellmouths its not suprising a standard map is to weak, but I wasn't expecting a duff TPS and spark plug.

[skidlids]

Here's one I did earlier, earlier today that is :)

[Iconic944ss]

Impressive stuff Kev, why not just quit the day job and start your own Ducati race service centre :D

[skidlids]

Frank the day job is only 3 days a week :)
Better still its only Tuesday to Thursday :)
Lots of time to Play with bikes or go racing :)

Still time to go and flash the altered Map into the ECU and see if it improves the starting and allows me to reset the TPS to a more sensible position

[Spjallen]

Love the 749 clocks, looks fantastic! What is the benefit of them and the new electrics?

[skidlids]

Simon the main difference between what I have removed and what I have fitted is the cost, RRP on a Nemesis is about £800

[Ghost]

Just shove a Scitsu on it

[skidlids]

Just shove a Scitsu on it

Been there done that

[Ghost]

Been there done that

It works quite well doesn't it. :D

[Spjallen]

That's some saving. What's the advantage?

[skidlids]

That's some saving. What's the advantage?

The advantage is my 998R gets its Nemesis back which means I can then replace the MT940B dash with a standard 1098 dash and then my 955 gains the MT940B dash, so a double benifit.

It works quite well doesn't it. :D

The Scitsu on my Yellow and Blue bike does and as it's direct powered it doesn't even need charging

[skidlids]

Bike now starting easily and running quite sweetly using the 749 ECU and Dash along with a PF1C Linear TPS and the 1098 modified Loom :)

Not sure why but on one of the 749 ECUs I tried it keeps dropping out the rear cylyinder dispite it being the same ECU hardware build and same program loaded.
Checked the readings of the coil drivers and they are both fine on the multimeter, so a bit more investigation to do there. But as mentioned its running well on the other 749 ECU

[skidlids]

Bike now starting easily and running quite sweetly using the 749 ECU and Dash along with a PF1C Linear TPS and the 1098 modified Loom :)



Spoke to soon, After having the bike running sweatly on Sunday, I removed the dash and ECU as they weren't actually bolted to the bike, just connected to their wiring.
So next day I Bolted on the ECU and reattached the clocks and low behold the bikes back on one cylinder this time running on the rear cyl only.

To me its looking like an earthing issue somewhere dispite already having a earth wire straight from the battery -Ve to the ECU heatsink

Will have to see if I can find the problem this morning

[mark 999]

I've just read the whole of this thread and understood nothing !:o

However, I'm sure you should be going pro with this knowledge !

[skidlids]

I've just read the whole of this thread and understood nothing !:o



Got to admit Mark it's testing my understanding

Fitted an extra earth and hey presto bike running sweetly on two cylinders, warm it up and the turn it off. Then it was reluctant to start and when it did it was back on one cylinder.
Tried different HT leads and then coils, even swapping to the later type found on Multi 620s and alike, still no joy
Connected up spare ECU and attached a flying earth lead, now back running on two cyls. Decided to replace the Nemeseis Heatsink and use a standard one as this provides a better earth connection, with this swapped I fitted the ECU that had just been running it on both cylinders and now its back to running just on the rear cylinder.

Juts been checking Oil Temp ignition correction figures and injection phase and a few other parameters and they all seem as they should be.

Back to work tomorrow so will have to wait until Saturday before I look at it again, hopefully by then I will have had a few more ideas on what I can try to solve the problem.

[Spjallen]

Tps problem?

[skidlids]

Tps problem?

Nope, replaced on day one and has been fine since then.

[Ghost]

Use the formula: (TFC/2)=Ans usually works


Tooo fkin clever by half. :D :frog:

[SeeleyG50]

Interesting stuff Kev. Break in the wiring somewhere I reckon - based on it working fine until you pulled it apart & reassembled it. Assume you've 'waggled' whilst it's running ;)

[Yogi]

Good luck mate, don't you just love vehicle electronics.

I would be tempted to check all earths connections are un-coroded and tight.

It's not fuelling is it? blockage etc. **** in the tank !

[Ghost]

**** in the tank !

That might just help, especially after a good Jalfrezi.
:eek:

[skidlids]

Looks like all the issues are down to the CAN (Mpre like CAN't) system, stick a DECODED and remapped 620 ECU on it and wire in a MAP/AIR Temp sensor and its all Hunky Dory

[SeeleyG50]

.....well, for the time being at least.....:p

[skidlids]

.....well, for the time being at least.....:p

Quite right, it will be revisited in the future, wish I could get new pins for the ECU connectors that way I could build a nice custom harness that could incorporate the wiring for the standard 620 setup and also the Dual CAN system.

Maybe when I get around to building my Class A Monster I will have another try, in the meantime I need to get this bike ready for Phil, so tomorrow I'll be adding a Tacho out wire to run the Rev Counter

[chrisw]

Skids

I've got loads of wires with the connectors on that are left over from my 'ECU Writer Connector' builds. PM me your address if you want some.

[skidlids]

Thanks for the offer Chris, I already have a few used wires with the ends on but would like some new ones that I can crimp on to new wires

I think I may have found some that are suitable, well about 4 different ones so need to get a few samples of each in and see which are best to use

[chrisw]

These should help

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-accessories/7239362/?searchTerm=723-9362&relevancy-data=636F3D3126696E3D4931384E525353746F636B4E756D6 265724D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C267 06D3D5E5C647B337D5B5C732D2F255C2E2C5D5C647B332C347 D2426706F3D313426736E3D592673743D52535F53544F434B5 F4E554D424552267573743D3732332D393336322677633D4E4 F4E4526

or

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connector-accessories/7239371/?searchTerm=723-9371&relevancy-data=636F3D3126696E3D4931384E525353746F636B4E756D6 265724D504E266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C267 06D3D5E5C647B337D5B5C732D2F255C2E2C5D5C647B332C347 D2426706F3D313426736E3D592673743D52535F53544F434B5 F4E554D424552267573743D3732332D393337312677633D4E4 F4E4526

[skidlids]

Cheers Chris thats the ones and as I have a registered account with RS I've ordered some
Three of the ones I came across last night were Molex, not suprising as they bought out Cinch
And another couple were Bosch as they make an identical connector

[chrisw]

Do you have a cheap source for the actual connectors? Would save me deconstructing Fiat Punto looms.

[skidlids]

Sadly not Chris, I'm doing the same as you, recycling used ones, some Fiat Some Ducati. Which is OK as I'm mainly modifying Harnesses for track bikes, but would like to get hold of some cheap new ones then I could make convertors for 1.5M ECUs etc

[bradders]

Why not just put it back as it was; at least then all is good and less likley to have future issues.

[badgerpilot]

Do threads like this appear to make me feel as thick as backwards tihs gip?

I put some pale yellowy juice in the hole at the top an press the red button, if it goes vroom, I race!