How do I bypass the immobiliser to fit a race dash?

[marchesini]

I have an S4R with the standard clocks with immobiliser but want to fit a Translogic race dash. I understand that if the clocks are removed, then the bike won't run so where do I start. It doesn't sound easy or is it?

Cheers all

best regards

simon

[NBs996]

I don't think you can do it Simon.
I tried to change the clocks on the DD bike but couldn't get the immobiliser to play the game. The dealers didn't have any ideas either.

However... there just might be some software available to plug in via laptop and completely disable it - Don't know for sure, just guessing really cos I've only heard of it being done so might not be true.

Google it, see what you come up with.

[marchesini]

Thanks for the reply. I heard that John Hackett's DD bike has been 'done' according to the fellas at Ducati Coventry but they didn't know for sure. I intended to call back when John was in but never got round to it.

I guess you would have other things on your mind otherf than checking out other rider's bikes on the grid. I'll carry on searching though.

Thanks again

best regards

simon

[Lee1980]

Hi Simon

Is it your bike on ducati monster.org with the red swingarm etc?
Saw some small pics on there u got any of the bike complete?
It sounded real cool:D:D

Sorry cant help with ur problem much I guess the only other was is to replace the ecu etc? but that be costly:(:(

[marchesini]

Originally posted by Lee1980
Hi Simon

Is it your bike on ducati monster.org with the red swingarm etc?
Saw some small pics on there u got any of the bike complete?
It sounded real cool:D:D

Yep, that's mine. It's been a real labour of love and it's not really even close to being finished. It was just put back together for the Mallory track day so there's plenty more work to do. If you're interested, I'll post some links later to some more pics. They are more of the work so far rather than any complete bikes but it gives you an idea of where we are going with it.

Cheers

simon

[TP]

There will be a way, it's just a matter of finding the right person.

They do it for 999's that have the same sort of key coding.

[marchesini]

Originally posted by TP
There will be a way, it's just a matter of finding the right person.

They do it for 999's that have the same sort of key coding.

Cheers, I'll post on the 999 forum and see what they come up with.

Best regards

simon

[TP]

Mr Hackett will be your man.

[Lee1980]

yeah please simon be nice to see some larger pics if have em:cool::cool:

[uncledunnie]

just a thought,

extension of the 999 association, once i realised the DP ECU I fitted was poop and in prior to having the PC3 fitted I explored the other ECU solutions, which were Corse ECU or FIM ECU, but since the FIM ECU wasn't available at the time and the Corse item was silly money I went PC3 route.

Check out FIM's site, from memory they sell a fully programmable ECU that will fit the monster, you can islolate everything and just have it running with the kill switch if you want. This may give you the flexibility you need.

Costs about £400 I seem to remember.

Neil Spalding at Sigma has dealings with FIM, he's well worth a call.

[uncledunnie]

just checked the site again myself after this jiggled my DD scheming mind

http://www.fuelinmoto.com.au/

says you can isolate the imobiliser no probs

[Lee1980]

Hi Simon I have seen ur second post on the DML great description of the work done very long to:D:D

Sounds great and the pics look great love the ohlins forks and radials to i want, want!!:cool::cool:

[marchesini]

Originally posted by uncledunnie
just a thought,

extension of the 999 association, once i realised the DP ECU I fitted was poop and in prior to having the PC3 fitted I explored the other ECU solutions, which were Corse ECU or FIM ECU, but since the FIM ECU wasn't available at the time and the Corse item was silly money I went PC3 route.

I don't actually do the work on my bike, I just give out the credit card numbers so apologies in advance for my idiotic questions. I have at present two different ECU's (the standard and the race one that came with the termis) and a PCIII. I believe that the race ECU is fitted along with the PCIII - this runs pretty well. To clarify, do I then need to buy another FIM ECU in order to bypass the immobiliser then - just plug this in and then you are good to go? I always thought the PCIII was a replacement for the ECU or do you still have to have the ECU inplace for immobiliser purposes - the PCIII's sole purpose is just to adjust the bike's fuelling etc. Am I correct in this thinking?

Cheers

simon

[uncledunnie]

The "race" one that came with the termi's will not be "race" in the factory Corse sense but a Ducati Peformance part with different settings to the base ECU supplied with the bike.

The PC3 is used as an easier way to alter the fueling, since the DP ECU is not readily hackable and adjustable. So people buy a PC3, stick it on and it overides the ECU on the bike in respect of fueling, it does not replace it.

The FIM ECU replaces the DP (or standard) ECU and is fully programmable which means you can then remove the PC3 (in your case) as all the fueling adjustments you need can be made via the FIM ECU.

The FIM ECU then allows you carry out other mods to the systems on the bike, ie increase the rev limit, bypass the immobilser and others as descibed on FIM's web site.

I would imagine the FIM ECU comes with a fuel map you can use and you can obtain other maps if you wish but it would really need to be remapped on a dyno (so it is specific for your bike) if you wanted the best from it.

So, if anyone else is thinking of changing zorsts on a later model Ducati with the ECU type brain - don't buy the DP ECU either buy a PC3 or if you want more features just buy an FIM ECU.

[HW]

Originally posted by uncledunnie
The "race" one that came with the termi's will not be "race" in the factory Corse sense but a Ducati Peformance part with different settings to the base ECU supplied with the bike.

The PC3 is used as an easier way to alter the fueling, since the DP ECU is not readily hackable and adjustable. So people buy a PC3, stick it on and it overides the ECU on the bike in respect of fueling, it does not replace it.

The FIM ECU replaces the DP (or standard) ECU and is fully programmable which means you can then remove the PC3 (in your case) as all the fueling adjustments you need can be made via the FIM ECU.

The FIM ECU then allows you carry out other mods to the systems on the bike, ie increase the rev limit, bypass the immobilser and others as descibed on FIM's web site.

I would imagine the FIM ECU comes with a fuel map you can use and you can obtain other maps if you wish but it would really need to be remapped on a dyno (so it is specific for your bike) if you wanted the best from it.

So, if anyone else is thinking of changing zorsts on a later model Ducati with the ECU type brain - don't buy the DP ECU either buy a PC3 or if you want more features just buy an FIM ECU.

Good info .. thanks for that. I had been puzzling over the same issues.

[marchesini]

Well, the good news is that if my bike was ever stolen, it would be near impossible to bypass the immobiliser and other electronic gubbins hidden about the bike.

Which means that the bad news is all I have found are dead ends.

Neil at Sigma said that although the FIM chip would bypass the immobiliser, the bike would still not work as there are a load of other sensors hidden in the clocks that need to be operative in order to start the bike.

John Hackett (Richard Hackett to be precise), said that anything can be done given time but to his knowledge it hadn't been done as yet. They had done a few 999's with Magnetti Marelli dashes but none with the Translogic version. It appears that Magnetti Marelli are working on something but who knows when that will appear? I am reluctant to hand my bike over as a guinea pig - I want it back on the road.

Finally, I phoned a good friend who installs bike alarms and immobilisers who through his contacts then got referred back to John Hackett. So it seems I have hit a brick wall with theis race dash idea.

As a last resort, I'll e-mail FIM and see if they have actually disabled a 999/S4R dash and got the bike to run. It seems that they are my last avenue to try so I'll post how I get on. I am not too hopeful though.

Best regards all

simon

[Ducman851]

While I dont have a Translogic dash on my M800. I do however have an FIM ECU and a SPA Technologies Tach fitted. Once the stock ECU is gone the bike will start and run just fine I pulled power and ground for the Tach from the factory harness. Tach signall from the harness as well. I even have an oil temp set up but had to run the propriatary wiring from the tach to the sensor that came with it.

The Immobilizer system on the newer Monsters (early S4s excluded) marry the ECU, Gauges and Keys together once they are programmed. Its a onetime deal. The early S4s were able to swap ECUs back and forth and just reprogram the Immobilizer function.

Your best bet is to get the FIM unit and you can then wire in anything you want.

[marchesini]

Originally posted by Ducman851
While I dont have a Translogic dash on my M800. I do however have an FIM ECU and a SPA Technologies Tach fitted. Once the stock ECU is gone the bike will start and run just fine I pulled power and ground for the Tach from the factory harness. Tach signall from the harness as well. I even have an oil temp set up but had to run the propriatary wiring from the tach to the sensor that came with it.

So your M800 uses the exact same immobiliser that comes on the S4R? If so, then there is hope. Do you still have the standard clocks fitted and if so did you try to run it without the clocks fitted?

Pics please if you have them.

Cheers

simon

PS. How much are the FIM units over there. I have a friend who is visiting from San Francisco in a couple of weeks so if this the way to go, maybe I can take advantage of the exchange rates. :eureka:

[Edited on 17-6-2005 by marchesini]

[Ducman851]

Originally posted by marchesini
So your M800 uses the exact same immobiliser that comes on the S4R? If so, then there is hope. Do you still have the standard clocks fitted and if so did you try to run it without the clocks fitted?

Pics please if you have them.

Cheers

simon

PS. How much are the FIM units over there. I have a friend who is visiting from San Francisco in a couple of weeks so if this the way to go, maybe I can take advantage of the exchange rates. :eureka:

[Edited on 17-6-2005 by marchesini]

With the FIM unit installed I can start and run it wih no gauges at all. No so with the OEM ECU, they dont run without them.
Heres a shot of my dash.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/515468/tach1.JPG

It goes to this:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/515468/IM001495.JPG

The FIM units are about $700 US

[marchesini]

Originally posted by Lee1980
Hi Simon I have seen ur second post on the DML great description of the work done very long to:D:D

Sounds great and the pics look great love the ohlins forks and radials to i want, want!!:cool::cool:

Don't know if you already have but you should take a look over on the UK Monster Owners Club. If meets and banter is your sort of thing, they are well worth a look.

www.ukmonster.co.uk

take care

simon

[marchesini]

Originally posted by Ducman851
With the FIM unit installed I can start and run it wih no gauges at all. No so with the OEM ECU, they dont run without them.



Do I have to irreversibly do anything or just take the clocks off and rewire? I assume that all the red key business and reprogramming the keys are all related to the immobiliser function of the bike and clocks, i.e. once the FIM unit is installed, the chips inside the key do nothing or is there another security check hidden in the wiring somewhere?

One other question is that if someone can program a PCIII, is remapping/programming an FIM Ultimap any more difficult or in need of any specialist software/hardware?

Apologies for all the questions but trying to get a total cost to change to the translogic dash and to ensure that I don't make any purchases that are not going to work (or at least 95% chance of working). This is what I am trying to install:

http://www.translogicuk.com/install_photos/Micro-Dash3.jpg

with more info here:

http://www.translogicuk.com/md2.htm

Thanks for you help and am quite optimistic that this can be done now. Do you have any recommendations of US suppliers for the FIM UCU?

Thanks and best regards

simon

[Lee1980]

Don't know if you already have but you should take a look over on the UK Monster Owners Club. If meets and banter is your sort of thing, they are well worth a look.


By Simon

Thanks Simon I have seem the ukmoc and the meet ups to, was going to Mallory to watch but other stuff happened:(

Im going to the motogp in the ducati area so hope to see you all then:D:D:D

[Ducman851]

Originally posted by marchesini
Do I have to irreversibly do anything or just take the clocks off and rewire? I assume that all the red key business and reprogramming the keys are all related to the immobiliser function of the bike and clocks, i.e. once the FIM unit is installed, the chips inside the key do nothing or is there another security check hidden in the wiring somewhere?
I just took en off and used the corresponding wiring that I needed for the tach

One other question is that if someone can program a PCIII, is remapping/programming an FIM Ultimap any more difficult or in need of any specialist software/hardware?

You will need to find someone to custom map the unit to your bike as there is specific software for this from FIM. They come with a pretty good base map.


Apologies for all the questions but trying to get a total cost to change to the translogic dash and to ensure that I don't make any purchases that are not going to work (or at least 95% chance of working). This is what I am trying to install:

http://www.translogicuk.com/install_photos/Micro-Dash3.jpg

with more info here:

http://www.translogicuk.com/md2.htm

Thanks for you help and am quite optimistic that this can be done now. Do you have any recommendations of US suppliers for the FIM UCU?

Thanks and best regards

simon

Do you need all the functions that the Translogic involves? or could you get by with a basic tach and a laptimer? My SPA tach has oil temp, shift lights, Engine RPMs , it was $429 USD from 1888fastlap.com

http://www.1888fastlap.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16886&cat=0&page=1