Ground Clearance

[mara]

A week ago I traded in my 750 Monster for an 2002 ST4. It's a mint bike with just 7000 miles and paniers and I'm delighted with the change.

The only glitch so far was riding home the other day down my favorite B Road, when I grounded the right can. The Monster would ground the pegs first, which is ideal so toe sliders can be used to warn that the ground in approaching.

I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but I couldn't find anything in the history and I'm new to the forum.

I'd be grateful for any help. Cheers.

[moozaad]

centre stand bobs first on my st2. check the suspension. Maybe more preload or compression damping on the rear is required. Also if you are fast riding without the panniers, you can raise the exhausts, which is just as likely to be the problem

[Edited on 13-8-2005 by moozaad]

[Rushjob]

I would first look at how much or how little rear ride height you are carrying.
The first thing to touch down on mine is.....I can't get anything to touch down !
I have 8 to 10mm of air under my rear tyre when the bike is on flat ground on the centre stand - this tips in very nicely but isway off touching down using all of the available tyre... ask Sparkin - he reckoned it was still miles off the deck at Cadwell with silly amounts of lean for a touring bike! :devil:

[rockhopper]

Two up, fully loaded panniers on bumpy left handers the centre stand touches down. Havent done it on the right yet although the rear tyre (180 tyre, standard for an ST4) is scuffed right to the edge on both sides.

I'm running much less ride height than Andy, arond 20mm under the tyre i think.

[Athelstan]

Welcome Mara
I have my ST4s rear wheel height set at 10 the same as Rushjob. This was done after consultation with the boys at Öhlins re setting the whole suspension up for my style of riding and weight. I have never touched down on either side. Maybe I don't try hard enough, but the bike puts a smile on my face every time I ride.

[mara]

Thanks all. To be clear, I'm no hero, I was very surprised when the can grounded and it certainly wasn't near the edge of the tyre.

I have about 40mm under the tyre when on the centre stand, so it seems I need to takle some rear suspension adjustment.

I can see that the cans can be lifted quite a bit if I take the panniers and hangers off, but I'd rather not do that as the panniers were a key reason for buying an ST, they mean I can do many more miles (where previously carrying kit mean't I had to take the car).

I'll see if I can find the right knob to increase ride hieght (you may notice I'm new to suspension adjustment) and hopefully I'll then be able to have fun down my favourite B roads without leaving bits of my bike attached to them.

[rockhopper]

Preload is the collar on the shock for which you need the c spanner which is in the tool kit.

40 mm is a huge amount, no wonder your having problems!

No need to take the pannier frames off to raise the cans, just unclip the boxes.

[Monty]

Rear ride height is controlled and adjusted by using the tie bar. It's an aluminium bar by the side of the shock, left hand thread at one end and right hand at the other. Put the bike on the stand, loosen the locknuts(remember one is left hand threaded) and turn the bar. The back wheel will drop towards the ground, how much you adjust it by is up to you-my ST4S has the back wheel just touching the ground when it's on the stand. That amount makes the bike turn in really easily, but may be a bit extreme for you, it does make the back end a bit 'loose', which is how I like my bikes. I have never touched anything down on my ST4S either in 25,000 miles, and I am not noted for my 'gentle' riding style

John

[dirtdigger]

After my recent trip to Germany, and much scraping on superb twisty roads, first thought was the pegs, I found only the left side of the centre stand touched down, but it was at the limit of the tyre! I would suspect your bike needs some adjusting!

[mara]

Thanks to all. I now have full confidence that my ST4 will do what I bought it for (cover miles, carry stuff and have fun). I'll raise the ride height at the weekend and let you know how I get on.

One more thing, I picked up the 2002 ST4 just a couple of weeks ago (reading posts in this forum, perhaps I should have pushed for an ST4S but it was mint with just 7k miles so I'm happy with it), it is fully standard spec. Are there any highly recommended mods that any self repsecting ST4 owner ought to be planning?

By the way, I'm impressed how much more stable the handling is than the 750 Monster, specifically the front end which I was never 100% confident with on the M750, and clearly its a bunch quicker.

[rockhopper]

Best mod is a 14 tooth front sprocket followed by some loud or modified standard cans and apprproate chip and set up (see Nelly) and some earplugs, then get some bendix front pads (see Nelly again).

They are the cheapish mods, after that its skys the limit really.

Do the sprocket mod, oh and fit a scottoiler as well.

If you do much two up then an autocom system is the dogs. I've got a little radio on mine so we can listen to radio one on the motorway (turn it off on any other roads, too distracting). Oh and get GPS.

[Monty]

One other thing really worth doing and cost's nothing-cut out the back of the airbox. You basically want a 'letterbox' in the rear of the airbox lid-this has 2 benefits:
1/ you get that lovely Ducati intake noise.
2/ and more importantly it fills in the midrange by a noticeable amount.
This is a standard 888/900ss mod and since the ST range use a similar restrictive airbox they benefit in the same way.

John

[Jools]

I replied to this post on Sunday, but problems with the message board seem to have wiped out my reply. People have mostly covered what I put in my reply, but there are a couple of things I said that aren't there.

Firstly, raising the rear ride height is essential (these bikes are very low as standard) and raising the rear does indeed raise the ground clearance and sharpen the steering considerably - you'll have even more confidence in the front after doing it. However, remember that because of the cantilever arrangement of the rear suspension any increase in the ride height adjuster is effectively doubled at the tyre, so don't go too mad. The law of diminishing returns also comes into it and you'll find the benefits of raising the ride height decrease exponentially. If you raise the rear by 20mm the effect on the steering will be very noticeably better. If you raise it further, it will still sharpen the steering but much less noticeably than the first 20mm (take it from me, I once had mine set so high that it wouldn't sit on the centre stand).

I'm with Monty on this one, the rear tyre just kissing the floor is my preference. I haven't noticed the rear getting loose with this arrangement (although my ST2 has 40 less bhp than Monty's 4S so it doesn't spin the rear as easily), but the bike will shake it's head more when accelerating over bumps - personally I like this as it's a more involving ride, but you may not.

Next 'free' mod is getting your suspension set up right in terms of pre-load, compression, rebound on both front and rear. Don't take these things for granted on a secondhand bike, check it all out and make sure it's set to factory settings for a kick-off and tweak it from there. Suspension settings are a very personal taste depending on whether you want the bike set up more on the sporting end or the touring end of the sport/tourer equation and, as well as your riding style, are highly dependent on your weight (and the weight of a pillion and luggage if you're a tourer). There are loads of threads about this on the site if you do a search, but you can also take the bike to a suspension specialist to do it for you for about £40.

Another 'free' mod is to take a drill to the back of your airbox and cut some holes in it. Some people cut 'letterboxes', but I've drilled 8 x 22mm holes in mine. The airbox volume on ST's is very restrictive and opening the airbox lid up a bit increases the effective volume (the Ducati Performance 'airbox' isn't even a lid it's just a frame to hold the airfilter so it's completely open)

I personally disagree with Rockhopper about the Scottoiler. My bike has one and I've stopped using it because it's a pain, the only thing it seems to do effectively is cover the LHS of the rear wheel of the bike with thrown-off oil. Getting the flow rate of the thing right is a never ending battle - you get it regulated so that it's metering out one drip every minute, then it gets hotter or colder and the viscosity of the oil changes and you start all over again. With modern X ring chains the lube is sealed in, so all you need is a thin coating of oil on the outside of the chain to stop rust. I used the scottoiler exclusively on my first chain and got about 12K miles out of it. Stopped using it on the replacement chain and just give this one a once over with WD40 before each ride (and sometimes even forget to do this). So far, I'm on about 10K miles with no visible need to change the chain yet.

[Edited on 16-8-2005 by Jools]

[mara]

I shall be spending the weekend raising ride height and cutting a piece out of the airbox.

Then we'll be checking out the sprocket, cans and chip options.

A couple more questions:
a) does anyone have experience of the Garmin Quest GPS and mounting it on an ST?
b) does anyone know of a suspension specialist in the York/Leeds area?

[Rushjob]

A mate gave good feedback on UK Suspension in Bradford.....
Did wonders for his 1200 Bandit

[Glyn]

picked my st2 up about nearly two years ago now
when i got it, she was a dog to ride
she really hated turning in to the bends, once we were in a bend together the front wheel used to judder across the road badly
tweaked the rear ride hight up a bit.
set suspension to default then stiffened the front a tad more
she was a new bike
quick and sharp in the bends.
though to restate what monty said above if you go to far with the rear ride hight it feels like the back end is trying to over take the front under heavy breaking.
made i poop i pants a bit
i have also tried the airbox mod but it gave me a nasty flat spot at peak power for some reason?
this is on an st2 though

[Derek]

I thought I'd have a go at increasing the ride height on Saturday but the bottom locknut is up solid and impossible to get a decent spanner on. I'm going to have to take the ride height adjuster off the bike to get the nut undone so I'll leave it just now until a more convenient time. :(

[MARTIN H]

You may find the bottom lock nut is a left hand thread.

[Derek]

Originally posted by MARTIN H
You may find the bottom lock nut is a left hand thread.

Oh aye. I know that. Makes no difference to getting it loosened though.

[Jools]

Both the top and bottom locknuts on my bike were seized up, after all they live in the open and can get corroded quite easily.

The first time I adjusted the ride height I had to take the rod out, but it only takes about half an hour. I decided to do it when I had already got the back wheel dropped out for tyre fitting, then I removed the RH footrest so that I could get at all the allen bolts that hold the adjuster.

Once it was out a little local application of WD40 left to soak in for half an hour plus a little heat did the trick. I took the rose joints out completely then squirted a load of waxoyl into the inside of the adjuster tube. Did the same thing with the rose joint threads and reassembled it all.

Now it's a 5 minute job, cos the locknuts and rod turn smotthly every time

[Derek]

On Sunday afternoon I removed the ride height adjuster, loosened everything off and put it back to together with plenty of waxoil as advised by Jools. I adjusted it for about 12mm clearance between the tyre and the ground ( the tyre is nearly worn out so I expect the gap to be about 8mm with a new tyre). I can see that there might be stablilty problems with the side stand if I lengthen the rod much more.
Then the rain came on so I haven't been able to try it out yet :(

[rockhopper]

Ah yes, the side stand. I hadn't thought about that. Mine leans a long way anyhow ever since we took the ferry to france and they were a bit enthusiastic with the tie downs. Bikes were parked so close together that i couldn't get it on the main stand.

[mara]

This morning I finally got around to raising the ride height (been a little distracted recently) and can't wait to go for a run. The adjustment was very easy, even for a workshop novice like myself.

It needed doing, it was set to the lowest ride height possible. The previous owner must have been short. The rear tyre now is just a little clear of the ground when on the stand.

I'll let you know if it feels different.

[mara]

Noticed an immediate and significant difference (in addition to my backside clearly being further from the ground). Turns in even sharper (in a very good and predictable manner), the front seems evenmore solid (not that it was a problem before), be bike has a more sporty stance and feels a more sporty riding position. Also, while I haven't pushed really hard yet, I have had it well cranked over and the cans didn't ground (even with panniers on).

So all good! The two noticable downsides are:
a) the side stand has become more unstable as the bike is now leant over more with more weight on the stand (is this adjustable at all?)
b) you notice being that 4cm further into the wind (easily dealt with by bending 4cm further down at three figures).

So thanks to everyone for the tips, seems to have fixed my initial problem. Now on to:
- try to improve the side stand
- airbox mod
- GPS fitting
- etc...

[Derek]

I eventually got out last night and noticed all of the above. The only thing I didn't care for was that now I can only reach the ground with my toes - I felt a bit perched to start with. On the way back I also noticed that the head light aim is even closer to me than before. I will now have to re-align the headlight which is poor enough to start with.

[Jools]

Ditto that Derek, my stumpy little legs have a job reaching the ground as well when the ride height is wound up and I'm on tip toes - it's worth it though.

Didn't think about the headlight....duuuuh...that's why I can only see two cat's eyes in front :lol:

[Glyn]

nope thats cause your nearly as blind as 4d:devil:

[Glyn]

if your toes are touching down your as far as you want to go !!