Neutral.......where is it?

[Flanners]

Is it a common theme, my 98 916 with 3700 miles is a pig to get in neutral when the bike is stationary, it blips down ok if I shift into neutral when coming to a standstill but once stopped I am forever clicking away to get it into neutral.

Even when it says it is in neutral infrequently it is in gear, I have nearly lost her a couple of times!

[Edited on 31-7-2003 by Flanners]

[Totto]

I have always got neutral whilst still moving a lot easier than when stationary
But i have just got my 998 back from its one year service & its a 110 times better now ,so there must be something mechanical the workshop can adjust to help !!

[Nigel Booker]

Agree with totto always found neutral by keeping the bike moving. That said if the clutch plates are getting worn then it can still be a pain to find neutral.

[nelly]

This is usually sorted with a bleed of the clutch lines.
Normally it's caused by not getting the full travel, due to air or leaking seals, of the pushrod.
Another tip to try is that there is a small screw in the back of the lever. This is usually covered with a spot of glue.
It adjsuts the free play in the lever. Screw it all the way in and it'll give you a couple more mm's of travel on the clutch release plate.

[PeteB]

Have you tried changing the 'span' adjuster? if its set on 3 or 4, try it on 2 or even 1 (if your hands are large enough!)

Setting it to 1 produces quite a lot more piston movement and thus a little more clutch dis-engagement than 4.........Try it

I would hesitate to 'adjust' the screw that is glued in place for a good reason! ie. the cylinder has been adjusted on assembly to produce the maximum movement without covering the 'bleed' hole. If the 'bleed' hole is covered, when the fluid expands, it has nowhere to go; on the clutch, at worst it can cause slippage, the same on the front brake can lead to a locked brake..........care!!!!!!!!!!

:sing:

[thrustercat]

Flanners, I can completely identify with you. I picked up my duke around 3 months ago and it took me at least 4 weeks to find sodding neutral.

After trying every different combination under the sun and nearly breaking my foot in the process I eventually found it. I asked some of my other mates who also own dukes laughed and said 'don't worry mate it's there, you just have to send out a search party to find it'.

Surely a duke's neutral can't be that bad. I shall pick up my Haynes manual tomorrow and see if I can ajust the buggr...somehow.

[Nigel Booker]

Thrustercat,
I know exactly what you mean took me a few months to get the hang of finding neutral on my first ducati. But after adjusting the gear change mechanism to suit me and a lot of practice you find that it all becomes very easy. I've found that you just need a very light touch with the gear lever.

[Sticky]

Yeah, I can't find neutral either. By the time I have, the lights have changed. It doesn't help when the neutral light comes on as and when it pleases. I always hold the front brake on and let the clutch out slowly when I think it's in neutral.

I had a ZX9R sometime ago and that had some fancy spinning ball bearing centrifugal thingamajig that meant once you had stopped you could just lift once up and it went straight into neutral with no fannying about.

[Marty916]

This might sound odd but have you checked the adjustment of your chain? I've found that a tight chain or very loose chain will effect your ability to find neutral.

[skidlids]

For the past 16 months I've had no problems finding Neutral until yesterday, when having to do something about my slipping clutch, rebuilt the clutch replacing worn steel plates with good ones and renewing the spring plate, re-bled the clutch and can now only find Neutral when the bike is moving, but at least it wheelies again

[Flanners]

Now shifting into neutral when rolling to a stop, saves all the hassle!

[Rattler]

I seem to find them everywhere and all of the time!!!!

So if you're looking for a neutral please let me know as I'll gladly let you have one of mine!!!

Tim:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:roll::roll::roll::roll::ro ll::roll::roll::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[rcgbob44]

Nelly`s 100% correct!
Just bleed the clutch line, I get the same effect on the Jota if i get air in it.

[thrustercat]

Nigel, with my duke I have noticed that you have to give it a solid, but gentle nudge up from 1st before you find neutral. I jumped on a Blade the other day, and couldn't believe how easy the gear changes was, as well as the comfort level.... a good reason for buying another bike!! :D I

I have also noticed that my foot begins to ache after a while due to the gear changes... perhaps it's my boots, or I need to change the positioning of the gear lever... I will investigate at some later stage.

Sticky - have the same problem at lights... gets to the stage where apathy kicks in and you find it easier to whack the buggr in first and hold the clutch in.

Skidlids - just had a full service on my duke, picked it up last Sat.... £650 notes in total, including replacement clutch plates. My plates must have been slipping for quite some time as I have noticed that the bike now performs extremely well. So much more torque it's unbelievable. Glad I had them replaced. Looking to get a milled clutch cover as I hear this extends the life of the clutch.

Flanners - never tried finding neutral when it motion, I know on occasion that the bike goes into Neutral... must give it a go.

[JPM]

Think I had one of your neutral the other month at Oulton Rattler.... you can have it back if you like....

It gave me a nasty case of gravel rash :)

[jim flynn]

Absolute nightmare getting neutral. My 748 wasn't too bad until i had the clutch, chain and sprockets replaced. Since then i have had to employ the select neutral while rolling method.

Had a strange thing happen sunday night. After a downchange i found the clutch not working till the last 2 cm of travel in the lever. Gear changes became very difficult and neutral? No chance. Got back and rotated the span adjuster and got the clutch back. Can't explain it. The downchange may have been before the clutch was disengaged so maybe some feedback through the system span the adjustor somehow? Damned if i know.

Funny how with the engine off you can get neutral straight away and yet with the clutch all the way in you are left working your left foot like a tap dancer trying to find it.

[JPM]

Jim,

Could be a few things.... clutch fluid, air bubbles, possible leak in the system, or maybe your clutch drum nut has worked lose, happened on mine, and couldn't get neutral full stop, not even when not running, had to ride home (120 miles) in 1 gear !!

[Shazaam!]

An elusive neutral, really a clutch disengagement problem, is most often caused by air in the hydraulic system. Any air in the system will be compressed and this will prevent the clutch plates from separating enough and allow them to touch and drag. It's this slight dragging that makes it difficult to slip into neutral while stopped. It also causes premature clutch wear.

The stock slave cylinder hydraulic ratio is designed to give a lot of leeway when it comes to bleeding, meaning you can have a lot of air trapped in the system and it will still work (at least partially), but that's why the pull effort is so high and why neutral can be hard to find when there's air in the system.

If you have not already done so, you can make bleeding much easier if you replace the banjo bolt at the master cylinder line connection with a bleeder-type banjo bolt. The master cylinder is where most of the air rises, gets trapped, and cannot be bled out (easily) using the bleed nipple down by the slave unit.

http://home.san.rr.com/shazaam/BleederBolt.jpg

If you've installed a new clutch pack, drag-free operation requires that the metal plates be the correct thickness and absolutely flat, and that the overall height of the clutch pack not exceed specs.

On a bike with an original clutch and slave cylinder, a problem finding neutral will (almost always) be solved by bleeding air from the hydraulics.

For the rare case when purging air from the hydraulic system doesn't work, a clutch disengagement problem can be helped by increasing the clutch pushrod stroke distance.

The best way to do this is to change the clutch lever pull distance by changing the 4-position adjuster (early models don't have adjustable levers.) This is often necessary either after installing an aftermarket force-reduction clutch slave that (always) reduces clutch plate separation or after installing new clutch plates. There are four lever settings; where position 4 produces the least clutch plate separation, position 1 the most. This adjustment will also change the zone where clutch engagement begins.


Adjusting Master Cylinder Stroke Volume

Another way is to change the stroke volume (of hydraulic fluid) produced by the clutch master cylinder by adjusting the screw (covered by a hot-melt glue in later years) located between the clutch lever and the handlebar grip. Increasing the stroke volume will increase the clutch pushrod stroke distance and consequently the clutch plate separation.

http://home.san.rr.com/shazaam/LeverScrew.jpg

You can increase the stroke volume by turning this screw IN about a half-turn. Mark its initial position for future reference. If you go too far, the master cylinder will not bleed back properly.

So, turn the adjustment screw OUT to move the clutch engagement point closer to the grip, and turn it IN to move it out. Remember to leave some play in the end of the lever after you're done, or you'll wear the clutch out prematurely.

A word of caution here. The reason that there is a factory seal over this adjustment screw is that it's not intended to be used as a service point for clutch adjustment. It's used by Brembo during final assembly to locate the clutch master cylinder piston in the proper position relative to a hole that allows the hydraulic fluid to return to the reservoir. Small changes here can make clutch function erratic and remove too much lever free-play.

[jim flynn]

Some excellent advice here. I first put the clutch lever at position 1 which did help a bit but not enough. Next i got the Haynes manual out and spent a few quid in Halfords on top quality Castrol Dot 4 and a bleeding kit. Spent a pleasant afternoon sweating in the sun learning how to bleed my clutch.

The fluid had been in there about 18 months or so and was a bit grey looking. Ran the new fluid through and gave it a squeeze which was definitely an improvement. Checked externally for any signs of leaks and then went for a quick 20 mile test ride.

Had the familiar pain in my left hand from the heavy clutch, actually a good sign! Real test was at a roundabout with lights at every exit which were all red when i got to them. Started with the rolling slip in to neutral which was fine. Next, full stop down into first and snicked into neutral nice and easy! Hasn't been that easy for 2 years! New skill learnt and the bike is better than ever. Happy little biker! :lol:

[Flanners]

Bled it and then put the reach dial on number 2 and hey presto neutral when I want it. Never occured to me that the lever reach would effect the plates?

[jim flynn]

Have been thinking about why my clutch went so crappy and have this theory. Fluid good 18 months old and looking a bit mucky. That would suggest that it was degraded. Now add to that the recent hot weather and higher engine temperatures. Perhaps the reason it went soft after the bike had been running for a while was that the fluid was hot. That would explain the increase in feel when cold and the repeat when i was riding home again.
What do the techie types here think? Would the clutch performance be affected in this way?