View Full Version : Racing incident - lucky to be in one piece
Overtaking a Mondeo tonight, when he suddenly speeded up and swerved into me. I stuck my knee out and his door took me on the left slider/boot. It stood the bike up and put me onto the wrong side of the road just as we entered a bend. .:o
No damage whatsoever apart from a bit of "Mondeo silver" on my knee-slider, but had a bit of a dent in the bottom of his driver's door.
Exchanged mutual expressions of relief/insurance details and went on our way
ericthered40
13-Sep-2005, 01:00
The old overtaking wile being overtaken one a
Bastids
:cool:
Nah, he was just dawdling up a hill - only me and him involved.
What I reckon happened is that he changed down which explains the sudden burst of speed and what with only one hand on the wheel, would also explain the swerve. He wasn't the boy racer type, so I don't think he was being a ******** intentionally. Reason I was so close was that it was a double white line road and I was trying to stay within the law in my own way by not crossing the lines. Of course after he hit me, I crossed the blighters - lucky nothing was coming t'other way!
ericthered40
13-Sep-2005, 01:17
Originally posted by zhed44
Nah, he was just dawdling up a hill - only me and him involved.
What I reckon happened is that he changed down which explains the sudden burst of speed and what with only one hand on the wheel, would also explain the swerve. He wasn't the boy racer type, so I don't think he was being a ******** intentionally. Reason I was so close was that it was a double white line road and I was trying to stay within the law in my own way by not crossing the lines. Of course after he hit me, I crossed the blighters - lucky nothing was coming t'other way!
Are, the lesser dawdler, another common species, looks quite harmless till you get real close then
turns out to be just as deadly as the Dick head loon.
Well fended off anyway
:smug:
rockhopper
13-Sep-2005, 09:30
Trouble is that car drivers are not expecting a bike to squeeze through the gap between their vehicle and the white line. Especially coming up to a bend. One of the top ten most dangerous things you can do in my opinion (i do it all the time though!!).
bradders
13-Sep-2005, 10:27
thats what white lines are there for...
A "Racing incident"??:puzzled: You are joking, aren't you.
Originally posted by zhed44
Nah, he was just dawdling up a hill - only me and him involved.
What I reckon happened is that he changed down which explains the sudden burst of speed and what with only one hand on the wheel, would also explain the swerve. He wasn't the boy racer type, so I don't think he was being a ******** intentionally. Reason I was so close was that it was a double white line road and I was trying to stay within the law in my own way by not crossing the lines. Of course after he hit me, I crossed the blighters - lucky nothing was coming t'other way!
FFS! Sorry mate, whichever way i read this, there is only one ********!
Double whites = No overtaking, no crossing.... IMO you've only got yourself to blame... wait until the double whites finish, it's not a race you know :rolleye:
Originally posted by Felix
A "Racing incident"??:puzzled: You are joking, aren't you.
yes it was - i thought that might be obvious given that i was involved in an accident with a mondeo on the queen's highway.....
explanations and mitigation: well, he was driving at 10 - 15mph approx 6" from the kerb, leaving a 5' gap between his OS and the centre line. no side roads to the right, nowhere to go but straight on (or into me of course). come on, be honest, in that situation who wouldn't overtake?
if he hadn't suddenly hit the nitrous button, the whole manouvre would have been over and done with a long way before the bend became a factor.
however, hands up, it was a risky manouvre which i was lucky to get away with - but hey, "let he who is without sin etc etc"
and anyone that continues to flame me in a patronising, sanctimonious manner must forthwith sell their ducati and buy a BMW ;)
[Edited on 13-9-2005 by zhed44]
Fair play, zhed, we all have made daft overtaking maneuovers in the past. Trouble is, the only seem daft after the fact.;)
Originally posted by zhed44
Originally posted by Felix
A "Racing incident"??:puzzled: You are joking, aren't you.
yes it was - i thought that might be obvious given that i was involved in an accident with a mondeo on the queen's highway.....
explanations and mitigation: well, he was driving at 10 - 15mph approx 6" from the kerb, leaving a 5' gap between his OS and the centre line. no side roads to the right, nowhere to go but straight on (or into me of course). come on, be honest, in that situation who wouldn't overtake?
if he hadn't suddenly hit the nitrous button, the whole manouvre would have been over and done with a long way before the bend became a factor.
however, hands up, it was a risky manouvre which i was lucky to get away with - but hey, "let he who is without sin etc etc"
and anyone that continues to flame me in a patronising, sanctimonious manner must forthwith sell their ducati and buy a BMW ;)
[Edited on 13-9-2005 by zhed44]
Personally I never overtake on double whites mate, 1, it's illegal 2, they're there for a reason. I've seen too many people do it and end up nearly off, and the odd one or two pulled by the fuzz for doing so, 6 points I think
glad to hear it. with a bit of luck you should live forever :)
i may be wildly inaccurate, but i thought that double whites mean "don't cross us" - ie: no mention of overtaking. surely then, given that if something isn't forbidden, then it is permissible, so if there is enough space to overtake without crossing the lines, then all other things being equal (other traffic/speed limits/visibility etc) it's ok to overtake.
anyway dad, i'm suitably admonished. i promise i'll be good in future. :rolleye:
But it's not illegal to overtake on double whites, only to cross the double whites while you're doing it, so if there's a big enough gap it might be incredibly risky but...
The hill you're talking about could almost be the one leading into the town I live in. It's a steep hill that has buses and delivery vans labouring up there in second gear at about 10 mph and it has double whites all the way up it. Right at the top of the hill there is a 90 degree right hander...still has double whites, but the road widens at this point so that, if buses and trucks keep to the left, you can get a car past quite safely without crossing the double whites. There is enough room on the left hand side of the road to paint a white line down the middle of it and call the leftmost half a crawler lane, but they haven't painted that line so it remains a single carriageway.
But... I've overtaken there. A slow moving vehicle keeping left leaves about an 8 foot gap. On a bike it's just a question of a quick flick of the right wrist and two seconds later you're past - with 4 feet between you and the vehicle and 4 feet between you and the double whites.
Illegal? No. Committing any due care and attention/dangerous driving offence? No, perfectly safe in my view (and all but the most zealous observer of the law). Stupid? No. Risky? No more than getting on a bike in the first place.
So it's not always stupid/risky/illegal just depends like anything else on road layout and other road conditions at the time.
Originally posted by Jools
But it's not illegal to overtake on double whites, only to cross the double whites while you're doing it, so if there's a big enough gap it might be incredibly risky but...
The hill you're talking about could almost be the one leading into the town I live in. It's a steep hill that has buses and delivery vans labouring up there in second gear at about 10 mph and it has double whites all the way up it. Right at the top of the hill there is a 90 degree right hander...still has double whites, but the road widens at this point so that, if buses and trucks keep to the left, you can get a car past quite safely without crossing the double whites. There is enough room on the left hand side of the road to paint a white line down the middle of it and call the leftmost half a crawler lane, but they haven't painted that line so it remains a single carriageway.
But... I've overtaken there. A slow moving vehicle keeping left leaves about an 8 foot gap. On a bike it's just a question of a quick flick of the right wrist and two seconds later you're past - with 4 feet between you and the vehicle and 4 feet between you and the double whites.
Illegal? No. Committing any due care and attention/dangerous driving offence? No, perfectly safe in my view (and all but the most zealous observer of the law). Stupid? No. Risky? No more than getting on a bike in the first place.
So it's not always stupid/risky/illegal just depends like anything else on road layout and other road conditions at the time.
Er .there are actually several situations where you CAN cross the white lines..................come on then get your highway codes out???
108: Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less.
Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
:D
Whilst overtaking without crossing the line isn't illegal, it may leave you open to driving without due care and attention, or some such charge.
The lines are indicating a hazard ahead and by overtaking, you could be seen to not paying attention to that hazard.
well i'm very relieved and i'm also intelligent enough to realise i had an angel on the pillion seat last night as it could have been much, much worse.
Mello-Yellow
13-Sep-2005, 13:55
Done it myself on numerous occasions, when there is plenty of room left by the car and i know they have seen me by moving over and indicating left. Never do it when it's a tight squeeze because you can guarantee that the driver has not seen you and then end up in a lot more trouble than just being patient and waiting.
Lee1980
13-Sep-2005, 14:17
I do what andyb suggests nearly every day on the comuute to work, as the traffic is always grid locked/slow moving and when they try and block u, u have to go over double lines, maybe section 108 is why i havent been pulled over:bouncy::bouncy:
If I do get pulled I shall certainly mention it:saint:
Originally posted by zhed44
Overtaking a Mondeo tonight, when he suddenly speeded up
A Mondeo speed up? 30 to 60 in about 15 seconds, Ducati in about 2 to 3. Teach you to overtake on Double White Lines, car drivers do not expect people to over take on DW's he would not have known you were there. Sorry mate but you are at fault
Originally posted by itexuk
Originally posted by zhed44
Overtaking a Mondeo tonight, when he suddenly speeded up
A Mondeo speed up? 30 to 60 in about 15 seconds, Ducati in about 2 to 3. Teach you to overtake on Double White Lines, car drivers do not expect people to over take on DW's he would not have known you were there. Sorry mate but you are at fault
FYI. he nailed it just as i pulled out around him - the increase in forward movement was not really an issue, as the relative accelleration should have taken care of that - it was the 6' swerve that caught me out. in fact i had 2 alternatives - back off and brush against him or nail it and get punted into the bushes. i chose the former.
anyway - beginning to get a bit sick of all the condescending judgementalism now - i'm guessing that all those who have told me what an idiot i was either,
a) haven't realised that i've worked that much out for myself
b) have never pulled off a dodgy overtake themselves.
so for christ's sake, enough with all the holier than thou crap.
Fair play to you Zhed...
We all make mistakes from time to time, most of us get away with them nearly all the time, but the person on here who has never, ever, ever had a close scrape due to lack of their own judgement almost certainly doesn't exist.
Never gone in to a bend to hot? Never had to cram the brakes on as you've realised a little too late that the car in front has stopped suddenly? Never misjudged an overtake and been a bit too close for comfort?
Perhaps we'll here the pious amongst us start to chant "One must always ride at a speed that's consistent with the road conditions at the time, one must never break the speed limit, we must obey, we must obey"
None of us set out on a journey with the prime intent of taking undue risks or ****ing off other road users and I'm sure most of us try to ride defensively and not get into any undue scrapes, but for goodness sake every few thousand miles you may do something daft that makes you stop and think "shouldn't have done that".
Seems to me that Zhed has just got the guts to admit it on a public forum, which is fine by me if it makes me stop and think "would I do that?" from the safety of my office, before I even get on the bike.
Done it loads of times-even on IAM ridouts let by a motorcycle traffic officer..............as long as you don't cross the lines, and it is safe to do so, do it. I have had it pointed out to me by said traffic officer that it's not only your wheels that mustn't cross the lines, in his opinion no part of your bike must overhang the lines either. So no riding with your tyres just inside the lines as your handlebars and mirrors would be over the lines. He did say you would be unlucky to get nicked for that but would very likely get a pull.
Andy-opinion??
John
bradders
13-Sep-2005, 19:25
I tought it was illegal to overtake, regardless of crossing the white line or not?? at least thats what a local traffic plod told me and others when he was doing a guy for it....
rockhopper
14-Sep-2005, 00:14
Yes Monty, i've heard of that before.
Read the Highway Code Bradders, perfectly legal to overtake on double or single solid white lines as long as you don't cross said line.
108: Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less.
Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
141: You MUST NOT overtake
if you would have to cross or straddle double white lines with a solid line nearest to you (but see Rule 108)
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36, TSRGD regs 10, 22, 23 & 24, ZPPPCRGD reg 24
ericthered40
14-Sep-2005, 00:31
Originally posted by zhed44
Originally posted by itexuk
Originally posted by zhed44
Overtaking a Mondeo tonight, when he suddenly speeded up
A Mondeo speed up? 30 to 60 in about 15 seconds, Ducati in about 2 to 3. Teach you to overtake on Double White Lines, car drivers do not expect people to over take on DW's he would not have known you were there. Sorry mate but you are at fault
FYI. he nailed it just as i pulled out around him - the increase in forward movement was not really an issue, as the relative accelleration should have taken care of that - it was the 6' swerve that caught me out. in fact i had 2 alternatives - back off and brush against him or nail it and get punted into the bushes. i chose the former.
anyway - beginning to get a bit sick of all the condescending judgementalism now - i'm guessing that all those who have told me what an idiot i was either,
a) haven't realised that i've worked that much out for myself
b) have never pulled off a dodgy overtake themselves.
so for christ's sake, enough with all the holier than thou crap.
Well said mate I think you sound like a Bloke that can tell if it looked like a reasonable overtaking opportunity or a kamikaze death move over the white lines.
He was probably asleep when you arrived at his side and holding the wheel with one hand.
It’s the lesser known Dawdler mate, you just got in his strike zone.
**** the silly paint on the road and overtaking in the gap. Just overtake as normal if it’s safe and you’ve checked for the old bill. That way you end up getting back on the right side of the road as planed.
well anyway- just glad to have got away with it so lightly :)
rockhopper
14-Sep-2005, 09:40
At the end of the day zhed44 did nothing illeagal though. You just need to allow for the fact that most car drivers (and some bikers judging by the above) don't think that you are allowed to overtake on solid white lines so they are not expecting you to be there.
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