View Full Version : Slipper clutchs
Ok, i admit i don't know much about slipper clutchs. :puzzled:
I see there are 48 tooth slippers, 12 tooth etc...
So, what's are the advanteges/disadvantages of a 48 tooth vs one with less tooths?
Which is best?
Rushjob
19-Sep-2005, 16:58
The 48 tooth version will wear much less than a 12 tooth as regards the plate/basket interface.
Instead of the transmission forces being focussed at 12 points on each plate, there are 4 times that many contact areas giving less wear, longer life and smoother clutch action.
the 48 tooth basket seems to be a very worthwhile upgrade.
Don't reaaly know of any disadvantages.....
dickieducati
19-Sep-2005, 17:03
mt stm 48t has done getting on for 6k now without problems
Don't think technically there's much different between 12 and 48 teeth other than wear on the baskets. The only difference you'll have is spares possibly, 12 tooth plates are readily available, whereas 48 tooth you might have to order, and I'd expect to be slightly more expensive.
Thanks for the info guys :cool:
I just had a 2nd hand (1500 miles) STM 48 tooth slipper. It sounds much better but then a 1500 mile standard clutch would sound similar. I suspect it will wear better though.
My reason for wanting it was that I was locking the rear wheel on downshifts (on the track, not the road). As my braking got later and corner entry speed increased, I found I got worse at downshifting in time to be in the right gear for the exit! I was coing out in a high gear, having slipped the clutch in whilst in the turn (as KeefyB noticed in a recent photo!). Yesterday I tried it at Cadwell and whilst it takes a little "getting your head around" to learn to just drop into gear and not worry (too much) about feathering in the clutch, I noticed I was getting better at getting in the right gear for a fast exit.
That is until the bike packed up and becames a 375cc single. :mad:
[Edited on 20-9-2005 by HW]
gimpboy450
26-Sep-2005, 18:27
Anyone bought or used a ATCORSE slipper clutch, came accross them but wasn't sure how good they are??/
Originally posted by Ducnow
Ok, i admit i don't know much about slipper clutchs. :puzzled:
I see there are 48 tooth slippers, 12 tooth etc...
So, what's are the advanteges/disadvantages of a 48 tooth vs one with less tooths?
Which is best?
I've just asked a friend who was sales manager at STM exactly that question last week. Slipper was for 999 and I also asked about different size slave cylinders for the 999 and MTS, this is for majority road use with occasional track days, heres his reply
On the tech side I recommend the 48 teeth basket and plate kit. Z 48 have three times more contact suface between basket and plates allowing a much more precise fit and MUCH longer life. Moreover the sintered material of the Z-48 plates is exactly the same used in competition and has a long life as well as great friction coefficient.
All STM clutches are available with 12 or 48 basket, I highly recommend the 48. The advantage of the 12 is that you can use your old plates but the function is not as good as with the special STM 48 plates. priod.
Regarding the clucth model I suggest the EVOLUZIONE (003MG048/45°+ D). It has a diaphragm spring (degressive action on the lever) and would fit weel with the bike and how you use it. Choose the 45° ramp angle that works fine on the road and for "occasional" track rides. The 35° ramp angle is more for racing with highly compressed engines. Basically with lower ramp angle (35°) you reduce engine brake a lot that maybe is too much for road use.
Slave cylinders should be 28 on the 999 and 30 on the Multistrada. The diameter depends on the master cyl as well, generally you can increse 2mm on the diameter compared to original. Increasing the diameter of the slave you reduce at the same time the travel of the pushrod, with all STM clutches with diaphragm spring releasing the plates is easier than standard coil spring clutches, so if you choose an STM Evoluzione you can increase the diameter of the slave without any problem of drag.
If you look for the ultimate racing product the clutch to buy is the Evoluzione Racing (003MG101/45+D), is the same clutch used by all top riders in the world, it is more expensive especially because it uses a bigger diameter diaphragm spring and some slighlty different features. Compared to the EVOLUZIONE the lever will be even smoother.
Do not forget to ask for the special push rod pin (044MG001). It is a simple part but VERY useful.
There is only 1 tool that you need to hold the pusher plate while tightning the main nut on the clutch: 002AMH001. A good mechanic can also do it without the tool.
Originally posted by Gizmo
Originally posted by Ducnow
Ok, i admit i don't know much about slipper clutchs. :puzzled:
I see there are 48 tooth slippers, 12 tooth etc...
So, what's are the advanteges/disadvantages of a 48 tooth vs one with less tooths?
Which is best?
I've just asked a friend who was sales manager at STM exactly that question last week. Slipper was for 999 and I also asked about different size slave cylinders for the 999 and MTS, this is for majority road use with occasional track days, heres his reply
On the tech side I recommend the 48 teeth basket and plate kit. Z 48 have three times more contact suface between basket and plates allowing a much more precise fit and MUCH longer life. Moreover the sintered material of the Z-48 plates is exactly the same used in competition and has a long life as well as great friction coefficient.
All STM clutches are available with 12 or 48 basket, I highly recommend the 48. The advantage of the 12 is that you can use your old plates but the function is not as good as with the special STM 48 plates. priod.
Regarding the clucth model I suggest the EVOLUZIONE (003MG048/45°+ D). It has a diaphragm spring (degressive action on the lever) and would fit weel with the bike and how you use it. Choose the 45° ramp angle that works fine on the road and for "occasional" track rides. The 35° ramp angle is more for racing with highly compressed engines. Basically with lower ramp angle (35°) you reduce engine brake a lot that maybe is too much for road use.
Slave cylinders should be 28 on the 999 and 30 on the Multistrada. The diameter depends on the master cyl as well, generally you can increse 2mm on the diameter compared to original. Increasing the diameter of the slave you reduce at the same time the travel of the pushrod, with all STM clutches with diaphragm spring releasing the plates is easier than standard coil spring clutches, so if you choose an STM Evoluzione you can increase the diameter of the slave without any problem of drag.
If you look for the ultimate racing product the clutch to buy is the Evoluzione Racing (003MG101/45+D), is the same clutch used by all top riders in the world, it is more expensive especially because it uses a bigger diameter diaphragm spring and some slighlty different features. Compared to the EVOLUZIONE the lever will be even smoother.
Do not forget to ask for the special push rod pin (044MG001). It is a simple part but VERY useful.
There is only 1 tool that you need to hold the pusher plate while tightning the main nut on the clutch: 002AMH001. A good mechanic can also do it without the tool.
Still think its horrible, for what my opinions worth!
If its that good, why do the racers all use the 12 tooth 6 or 4 posts?
dickieducati
27-Sep-2005, 10:40
have you used one?
Originally posted by andyb
Still think its horrible, for what my opinions worth!
If its that good, why do the racers all use the 12 tooth 6 or 4 posts?
I've got no idea Andy, I didn't ask him about options on racing only clutches as thats not what I'm after, I want a clutch for road use with the odd trackday. He no longer works for STM, he left them 6 months ago so I'd think the advice he's given is, in his opinion and to the best of his knowledge, correct, I can't see why he'd suggest a product he longer sells for any other reason. I'll ask him why some racers use 12tooth 4 post anyway.
Originally posted by andyb
Still think its horrible, for what my opinions worth!
If its that good, why do the racers all use the 12 tooth 6 or 4 posts?
Because:
1) They don't need their clutches to last for any more than the length of the race.
2) They don't have to pay for their worn clutch baskets, or fit them themselves, or pay for the labour to do it
3) They don't have to buy their own clutch packs, or fit them etc...
4) They don't have to strike a compromise between road and track.
5) Even if they are privateers they still have enough money or sponsorship to be racing a Ducati, so longevity is not number one on their list
Anyway, without racers using something different people who want their bike to be fitted solely with wannabee racer bling would have nothing to aspire to
[Edited on 27-9-2005 by Jools]
1) I do believe your ST has a 12 tooth clutch pack, and that has lasted longer than a race.
2) I have and do fit my own.
3) really a mix of the above 2
4) To my knowledge the majority of road going dukes are supplied with dry clutches, whether used on road or track.
5)ALL dry clutches will wear quicker.
I would say a slipper clutch particulary when fitted to a big twin, is one of the best investments you can add to you bike, whether a wannabee or not!
sparkin
28-Sep-2005, 21:11
Originally posted by andyb
I would say a slipper clutch particulary when fitted to a big twin, is one of the best investments you can add to you bike, whether a wannabee or not!
Have to agree with that,it`s defo the best mod I`ve ever made to the T8.
Originally posted by sparkin
Originally posted by andyb
I would say a slipper clutch particulary when fitted to a big twin, is one of the best investments you can add to you bike, whether a wannabee or not!
Have to agree with that,it`s defo the best mod I`ve ever made to the T8.
Well I have to disagree....
:pig:
;)
sparkin
28-Sep-2005, 21:19
That`s because you`re a smoother,better,more handsome rider than I Sir keef.
Originally posted by sparkin
That`s because you`re a smoother,better,more handsome rider than I Sir keef.
What are you after????:ninja:
id have to agree after sampling sparkin's t8 ,a slipper clutch is on the shopping list
sparkin
28-Sep-2005, 21:25
Ah,the king of bling appears:P
mmmmmmmm we love bling.:roll::roll:
Rushjob
28-Sep-2005, 21:28
Just waiting for mine to be fitted to the 4S..... :smug:
sparkin
28-Sep-2005, 21:29
Come round and make me a cup of tea please:D
sparkin
28-Sep-2005, 21:32
Not if you get `em secondhand and cheap:devil:
Rushjob
28-Sep-2005, 21:33
Oh yes.......!
:D
sparkin
28-Sep-2005, 21:36
Might a known!
gimpboy450
29-Sep-2005, 18:01
Lets try again!! Anyone bought or used a ATCORSE slipper clutch, came accross them but wasn't sure how good they are??/
Tantrum992
29-Sep-2005, 18:10
Originally posted by Gizmo
Originally posted by Ducnow
Ok, i admit i don't know much about slipper clutchs. :puzzled:
I see there are 48 tooth slippers, 12 tooth etc...
So, what's are the advanteges/disadvantages of a 48 tooth vs one with less tooths?
Which is best?
I've just asked a friend who was sales manager at STM exactly that question last week. Slipper was for 999 and I also asked about different size slave cylinders for the 999 and MTS, this is for majority road use with occasional track days, heres his reply
On the tech side I recommend the 48 teeth basket and plate kit. Z 48 have three times more contact suface between basket and plates allowing a much more precise fit and MUCH longer life. Moreover the sintered material of the Z-48 plates is exactly the same used in competition and has a long life as well as great friction coefficient.
All STM clutches are available with 12 or 48 basket, I highly recommend the 48. The advantage of the 12 is that you can use your old plates but the function is not as good as with the special STM 48 plates. priod.
Regarding the clucth model I suggest the EVOLUZIONE (003MG048/45°+ D). It has a diaphragm spring (degressive action on the lever) and would fit weel with the bike and how you use it. Choose the 45° ramp angle that works fine on the road and for "occasional" track rides. The 35° ramp angle is more for racing with highly compressed engines. Basically with lower ramp angle (35°) you reduce engine brake a lot that maybe is too much for road use.
Slave cylinders should be 28 on the 999 and 30 on the Multistrada. The diameter depends on the master cyl as well, generally you can increse 2mm on the diameter compared to original. Increasing the diameter of the slave you reduce at the same time the travel of the pushrod, with all STM clutches with diaphragm spring releasing the plates is easier than standard coil spring clutches, so if you choose an STM Evoluzione you can increase the diameter of the slave without any problem of drag.
If you look for the ultimate racing product the clutch to buy is the Evoluzione Racing (003MG101/45+D), is the same clutch used by all top riders in the world, it is more expensive especially because it uses a bigger diameter diaphragm spring and some slighlty different features. Compared to the EVOLUZIONE the lever will be even smoother.
Do not forget to ask for the special push rod pin (044MG001). It is a simple part but VERY useful.
There is only 1 tool that you need to hold the pusher plate while tightning the main nut on the clutch: 002AMH001. A good mechanic can also do it without the tool.
Probably be my next buy :devil: any idea on cost
The 4 post slippers are required so that lock up pegs can be fitted to stop the slipper slipping when the bike is started using a starting machine......
With the wheel spinning, if the clutch is dropped to turn the engine over, the slipper will do what it's meant to and disengage the drive.
sparkin
29-Sep-2005, 18:19
Sorry GB450,but I haven`t tried one of those,mines a Bucci 6ramp,think they retail at £600-£700 thru Ducati.
Think Bucci's start towards the 700 mark now (without plates)
sparkin
29-Sep-2005, 18:28
Originally posted by JPM
Think Bucci's start towards the 700 mark now (without plates)
Ar last I`ve got something cheaper than normal;):D:smug:
Originally posted by gimpboy450
Lets try again!! Anyone bought or used a ATCORSE slipper clutch, came accross them but wasn't sure how good they are??/ I have a six ramp corse item.
and its superb
Originally posted by KeefyB
Pah!Waste o' money!:P
From what ive heard of your riding style mate, might be a good investment........:D;):pig::lol:
Originally posted by keefer
Originally posted by gimpboy450
Lets try again!! Anyone bought or used a ATCORSE slipper clutch, came accross them but wasn't sure how good they are??/ I have a six ramp corse item.
and its superb
Keefer yours is a Ducati Corse (made by Bucci if you didn't already know) clutch, not an ATCORSE slipper
whoops.
what's ATCORSE one look like then ?
just saw the corse bit and ignored the A T
Originally posted by andyb
Originally posted by KeefyB
Pah!Waste o' money!:P
From what ive heard of your riding style mate, might be a good investment........:D;):pig::lol:
Really??!!:puzzled:
Originally posted by KeefyB
Originally posted by andyb
Originally posted by KeefyB
Pah!Waste o' money!:P
From what ive heard of your riding style mate, might be a good investment........:D;):pig::lol:
Really??!!:puzzled:
At Riverside ....................................you sat at the front........only kidding! :D:pig:
gimpboy450
30-Sep-2005, 09:58
NEW SLIPPER CLUTCH FROM ATCORSE FOR ALL DUCATI SUPERBIKES WITH DRY CLUTCH. FROM 748 TO THE LATEST 999 ALL MONSTER MODELS AND MULTISTRADA.
THIS RACE SPECS SLIPPER CLUTCH IS ENTIRELY MADE IN ERGAL WHICH WILL SAVE WEIGHT FROM ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT. MANUFACTURED IN ITALY THE SLIPPER CLUTCH EMPLOYS THE LATEST RACE PROVEN RAMP AND BALL BEARING MECHANISM.
WIDELY TESTED IN ITALY DURING LAST RACING SEASON ATCORSE HAS ALSO BEEN SUPPLIER OF BSB RACE TEAMS WITH EXCELLENT RESULTS.
ATCORSE SLIPPER CLUTCH PREVENTS LOCKING THE REAR WHEEL ON DOWNCHANGES GIVING THE RIDER EXCELLENT GRIP AND FEEDBACK FROM THE REAR WHEEL AND SUSPENSION AND LESS STRESS ON THE ENGINE.
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