996r advice please

[COL595]

Guys,
I desperately need your help. I'm in the fortunate position to be considering buying a 996r. I've taken, what appears to be, an immaculate example out for a test ride today, and I'm really disappointed. The thing was virtually unrideable! I couldn't get it to turn in to roundabouts, and I couldn't input any minor steering adjustments on fast sweepers. The dealer's telling me that these are merely set-up problems. Is he right or could it be that it's never going to suit my riding style? For info, I'm 6' 2" and weigh about 13.5 stone. I've ridden loads of sports bikes, but my normal riding style is not to 'hang off'. If I'm investing 14 big ones, I need to know that I'm gonna be able to get on with it. Any views would be appreciated - especially those that tell me to buy it!

[KJ]

The Ducati is a wonderful bike to ride - once you have gotten used to all its fussiness!

It will probably out-handle anything else on the road - if driven properly - but you need to spend more time on it than a simple test ride.

I had an R1 for a day recently - it did EVERYTHING better than my Ducati and on my way back I was thinking in the back of my mind - why have I got a Duke?

Fussy - high maintanence - costly - sometime unrelaiable - but as soon as I got back on - I knew straight away the reasons why!

Involving - sounds georgeous - handles superbly - makes me feel fantastic - especially round the bends!

The R1 was just clinical brilliance - no need to hang off - just sit, point and squirt - the Duke needs to be ridden to get the best out of it.

I am sure that you will fall in love with the 996r once you have had a chance to "tune in" to its virtues and be able to ride it faster than you have your other bikes.

After all you would'nt drive a mini the same way you drive a Ferrari - would you?

Just my thoughts.

KJ

[Edited on 3-8-2003 by KJ]

[Edited on 3-8-2003 by KJ]

[Rattler]

.....is it from a reputable dealer?

Have you got a HPI check? (crash damage)
What sort of mileage has it got? (may indicate if its been setup for someone)

Can you get someone else to ride it who has Ducati experience?

Has it got all standard 996R parts on it?

Tim

[COL595]

Thanks KJ. Hi Rattler.

It's the one in P&H in Crawley. It looks immaculate, is standard, and has all the right bits. Only 2.5k miles on it. They assure me it's never been on the track, I couldn't find any signs of crash damage, and I was dribbling all over it - until I got to the first roundabout...... I took it down a really twisty bit near Devil's Dyke, and it was terrifying - I was slower than a very slow thing indeed.

The guy at P&H said that the previous owner was a bit of a big lad (about 17 stone he reckoned), and he'd probably set it up very hard.

Maybe KJ's right - perhaps I'm just too used to jumping on jap (and Hinckley's finest) bikes and away you go....??

Col.

[Rattler]

..... I've been looking for a 996R for a while and there are a few around, the one at P&H is too much money in my opinion.....

I'm sure its a straight bike and all will check out OK, but its a lot of money for a 996R.

For that price you can get a 998R (not as good as a 996R in my opinion), but is worth more money.

P&H have had that R for a long time, there have been a few guys on here looking at it - I don't suppose they are dropping the price at all either. I think it owes them a lot of money.

Having looked at a few 996Rs and read-up about 998Rs, (and taken much excellent advice from this board) for a typical bike (lowish mileage, excellent condition) you should look to pay about £11.5K - £12.5K for a 996R and £13.5K - £14.5K for a 998R. If its higher or lower mileage and condition is different then these prices may vary slightly.

I think Pro-Twins have just got a 996R in, again too much money, but may be worth checking out.

At the P&H price, it'll still be there for a while, so take your time and be sure!!!

Tim

[COL595]

I never got as far as haggling with them. I had the thing out for over an hour, and by the time I got back I was too hot, too tired and too disappointed. When I got back on my 595 to come home, I thought I had 2 flat tyres - it fell into corners so easily!!

Do you think it could just be the set-up? I'm desperately trying to convince myself not to let the Ducati ownership dream die!!! But like you say - 14k is a lot of dosh.

[Rattler]

....one of the main guys on here - Henners - was looking at that bike and may have taken it for a test ride - I'm not sure - send him a U2U and he'll be sure to get back to you, he's a great guy and I'm sure he'll help you. he went and bought a 998 instead!!!

Also, why not take other Ducatis from P&H out for a test ride, that way you can check out what other Ducatis feel like.

The 996R has Ohlins suspension on the front and back and its about as good as it gets, it may have been setup for a heavier guy and this would make it feel harsh, but I'm not sure why it wouldn't turn in quicker....

Tim

[Jon]

Col, Don't take ths the wrong way but did you ever think that because you were riding a 14,000 bike, you might have been a bit frigid. Brain saying one thing and you body another. Did you shoulders, arms or neck ache when you got back.
As Rattler says, go and test a 748/996 etc.

Jon

[COL595]

Jon,
I've been trying to convince myself of all sorts of explanations. It could just be something stupid like somebody fannying with the steering damper or shock settings while it's been in the shop. You're right that the cost does, err... focus the mind a bit, but the only pains I got were in my wrists.

I have had a short play on a 996S and a 748 (Brands Experience) previously, and they were both fine - though the 996S did get a little bit upset if you were obliged to change line mid-corner (it was so subtle that I'd expect it to be dialled out by suspension adjustment if it was mine).

Most of the other Dukes in P&H are 999s - nice bikes, and a darn sight more comfortable, but they just don't do it for me.

Col.

[Henners]

Hi Col

What you're describing is almost certainly set-up problems, however, I would want to speak with the previous owner to be sure it hadn't been dropped. Assuming you get the right answers there then a few general things to be aware of:

Ducatis come from the factory with two main handling problems i) they steer too slow and ii) they stand up on the brakes going into a bend. The first can be tuned out depending on your riding style by raising the rear ride height or changing the steering angle, however, be careful that you don't overdo it or you will lose that wonderful 'planted and secure' feeling when you're really cranked over in a long fast bend.

The standing up effect isn't so easy and most sportsbikes do it as its a factor of weight distribution, rake and tyre profile, you just have to muscle it back down again.

Other things to consider: is the front tyre original? At 2500 miles it'll look OK but is it at the right pressure and has it been flat spotted? - that bike has been sat in P&H for a while. Hopefully the rear has been replaced by now but check and remember that the flat spotting might apply there too.

Ohlins suspension - wonderful stuff but was the bike on standard settings when you tested it? A tiny tweak on these units really shows a huge difference so ensure that it's all reset to factory settings before riding the bike again.

Another factor is you height. Ducatis 9** are designed to be raced and most racers are no larger than 5'9" - Xaus being the rule breaker of course - so some folk of your height find them uncomfortable although Red-leader will disagree with me. Discomfort makes riding input more problematical and leads to the general feeling of frustration - you mention that you got back to the shop feeling uncomfortable.

None of the above would take much to sort out and there are lots of good suspension set up people around, the key thing I suggest you do if you're serious is ask P&H to set the bike to standard settings and check the tyres and pressures, talk to the previous owner and if it all checks out and you still don't like it, I'll try and organise a ride on a bike which has been set up for someone of you height and weight.

Hope that helps. Henners

[Red-leader]

Col
Iam a long streak of pi## and the same weight as you. My 998 was harsh and wrist jaring to start with but i have got used to it and now it all seems normal. I have tweeked the suspension to suit my style or lack of style and it now handles as good as i can ride. I also came from a Triumph (speed tripple) so the difference was pretty awsome.
Would now not swop back, the Duke just has that wow factor every time i ride.
Sorry i cant be more technical, but thats how I find it.
Good luck with the choice
Kev

[swiss 998s]

Why not ask them if it is on standard settings? Easy to check with the rear shock rebound and compression, just count the number of clicks. Maybe the guy "screwed" up the settings and hence is selling

I test rode my 998S after not riding a bike for 6 years and never having ridden a Duc before. after 10 mins i was loving it and leaning. I'm 6 ft, 84kg never had a problem with size.

Take another 998 out, if it "feels" the same, it is probably you.

[Ray]

My money would be on the steering damper being too tight. It's the number one twiddle magnet for a bike that has sat in the ship as long as that one has.

Have to agree it's pricey. It probably needs a full service inc belts as well? How much warranty if any left?

A 996/8r turns quicker than a '99 996 bip when they are all on standard settings.

Ray

[pguenet]

I looked at that bike in P&H Crawley about 3 months ago and it is real pricey. Upon haggling with them they would give it a service before it goes and that was about it... but i am not even sure that you would want that.

I have bought a 996SPS instead and servicing had been done by P&H and they did not seem to have done a lot as far as I am concerned.

If I was to spend that sort of money on a 996R I would rather go to Pro-Twin, at least with them you know that you would get a minter.

[adam]

Hi Col, i recently bought a 996R from pro twins, I used to have a 748R. I have found this bike to be no different in handling to the 748R, both having Ohlins. I think most riders go and have their bikes set up for them, this one needs it. very hard even over the smallest of bumps. as previously mentioned, try another Duke or two and see how they feel. I have a friend who ownes a 748, when i had a go it fell into corners, all down to setting up.
As to cost, if you like it get it. I myself cannot be arsed to hang around waiting for that one bike that is at the "right price"
I could still be waiting if i was worried too much about price, but i am at present having a blast with this 996R, instead of scouring the pages trying to save a few hundred pounds. Good luck and let us know.:D

[Dibble]

Pguenet, surprised at your remarks about P&H, they looked after my 996 until Ducati London South opened on office doorstep .....

595, P&H are very fair, I think whoever it was that said it owed them a lot of money is quite accurate, I know one of the sales guys down there ad he intimated the same ...

that bike is very genuine, very straight and stunning, I was trying to get Henners to buy it ... good time for a haggle though as if it doesnt go soon they wont want it in the shop for another 6 months over the winter ...

get them to sort the suspension and have another go on it ...

be quick though cos if my 6 numbers come up i'm having it ... lol

[COL595]

What can I say? Thanks to all you folks for taking the time to reply - I really appreciate it.

I think I will try a few more before I buy, but I think you're all telling me that I shouldn't expect too much without spending a lot of time setting it up (or getting someone who knows what they're doing to do it for me). I certainly feel a bit better about the test ride.

Although I am a bit 'Xaus-like' in proportions (though obviously not in riding ability), I'm not going to let this put me off - there's always surgery.

I need to own one of these beauties - I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again,

Col.

[Paul James]

You are welcome to try the settings I have on my 996R, I'm 6 feet and around 13.5 stone. Tyres can have a big effect, could be low pressures, bad tyres, odd suspension settings etc. When I bought my second hand ST2 a couple of years ago the guy had previously "ridden" a Highly Dangerous and had tried to set the ST up to handle as badly. Wound off all the rear preload and compression damping. Man did that thing feel wierd !!!. Jacked the back up 1.5 inches, wound on some preload and damping (started at standard settings) and hey presto a rideable bike!!!.

Henners is right about the set up being critical, the guy who suggested the steering damper could be too tight was also worth listening to.

John Hackett put a harder spring on the rear of my 996R with less preload. If you've ever done any research on how springs work it makes sense, the spring works better and once the damping is adjusted around it makes for a far more comfortable ride without compromising track day handling.

[ziggi]

and in my opinion, it's a minter. The rear is a 180 supercorsa which looks to be squared off (original tyre). The previous owner never had it to the edges or anywhere near.

Col, I'd buy it if I had the cash (but haggle as P&H are fairly reasonable)

[Henners]

Sorry to disagree Zig but the original would have been a 190 ...

[sps955]

Have to agree with Henners,the standard tyre on a 996R + 998R is a 190.
Maybe he just prefers the 180 so it might just be a simple reason.
Just fitted a 180 onto my 998R,definately falls into turns a lot easier.
Plus i can get right off the edge of a 180 so it helps my ego.:D

[ziggi]

that it looked like it was on from the start of it's life. ie: 2500 miles.

[pguenet]

P&H did first 2 services on my bike with previous owner. I bought the bike 1 year (600 miles) after the last service and did 500 (very gentle) miles since so a lot of the things that I am picking up now should have probably been showing at the last service and sorted then under warranty but weren't.
- 1 Fork seal blown
- Too much play in head race just needed tightening
- Previous service boy over tightened the oil filter and the alternator shaft cover (to the point of actually breaking the cover and leaving it that way!). Obviously not using a torque wrench then.
- They did not notice a big freeplay on the main drive shaft which I was easily noticeable doing the front sprocket retaining plate. This is an obvious assembly issue which I will now struggle to get fixed under warranty since warranty has just expired.

May be some of those problems were not apparent a year ago but some obvious things were certainly missed. I have been complaining a lot about the servicing level of Ducatis. Some of the garages out there charge you a little fortune and sound like they did a lot but actually don't do that much to your bike. Out of curiosity next time they tell you that the valve clearance is OK, ask to see the values they got for tolerances.

As long as the bike keeps going, customers are happy, the day they break down, they blame the legendary Ducati unreliability. Are you able to tell if your TPS is not quite adjusted, your throttle body synchro a little off? Exactely, that is how they get away with it!

I am still convinced that the best Ducati servicing will be from independant passionate specialists & dealers/garages that have experience with racing Ducatis. They have the rigourous & passionate approach of doing a good job and Ducatis need that.

[ziggi]

couldn't agree more with you pguenet! Most of us find out the hard way. Oh, ok it's only me then :D