View Full Version : Parc Ferme
Currently, the rules state that...
2.1.1 Compliance Control
At the end of the race, the DSC Technical Committee can request that all classified motorcycles are placed in a parc-fermé for a period of at least 30 minutes.
Which is fine as long as nobody wants to lodge a protest. However, I think that Parc Ferme should be compulsary after every race, and then we all know where we stand.
If there is no parc ferme, then I can't see how a protest can be made/upheld as anything could happen between the end of the race and 30 mins later when the committee turn up to look at a bike.
What do the rest of you think?
I think you lot are disappearing up your own jacksies in my humble opinion ......
dickieducati
20-Oct-2005, 14:23
havnt voted as nothing really suits what i would want.
i think one bike chosed out of the hat should be pulled in after each race and as thourough check as possible made. obviously you cant go taking engines apart. but obvious things. dare i say tyres etc.
massively difficult to take apart an engine and check everything but i guess is some lodges a complaint then it could be done between meeting?
skidlids
20-Oct-2005, 14:24
Dibble you could be right there :P
Originally posted by DIBBLE
I think you lot are disappearing up your own jacksies in my humble opinion ......
PMSL!!!
I've heard Eurosport are in talks, and Dorna want in on the action too!:lol:
skidlids
20-Oct-2005, 14:26
Originally posted by dickieducati
havnt voted as nothing really suits what i would want.
i think one bike chosed out of the hat should be pulled in after each race and as thourough check as possible made. obviously you cant go taking engines apart. but obvious things. dare i say tyres etc.
massively difficult to take apart an engine and check everything but i guess is some lodges a complaint then it could be done between meeting?
So if I protest the whole field after race 1 and get there engines stripped I could be in with a chance of wining race 2, bit like buying a trophy me thinks :lol:
So if thats the case, why not just remove the rule altogether?
If there is no Parc Ferme, and someone protests me, then it's tough doo doo in my opinion.
Nobody was stripped this year, and there was no parc ferme, and only one protest?
So it's a joke rule in that case.
Like Dickie says, who is gunna strip an engine down between races - and rebuild it again with £25!!
Also, how many bikes are running hi-comp pistons this year - and who is honestly gunna change them back?
What would happen if somone turned up with £500 and protested the top 20?
Are you telling me that anything would actually happen?
dickieducati
20-Oct-2005, 14:41
idont think anyone is getting up their own arse. its a valid question thta dom has brought up and one that does need to be addressed.
dickieducati
20-Oct-2005, 14:50
can we not introduce at power limit now seeing as we have split the grid? fairly easy to chuck a bike on a dyno. we know what a standard bike chucks out roughly. add a bit for cans pc's etc and roberts your dads brother. its not fool proof but it stops someone running a hugely superior powered bike.
it quick and very transparent.
still pull one bike in for a cursory check after each race too.
Tonio600
20-Oct-2005, 14:56
Message original : domski
What do the rest of you think?
I think I'm racing for fun, and I don't care if other riders cheat with their bike or anything. It's not going to prevent me improving my riding skills, which is my only aim. So I wouldn't bother with a parc ferme...
OK, there's an idea.
A mobile dyno can be hired for £175 + £1 a mile travel (£5-£10 each per rider?)
http://www.viper-racinguk.co.uk/html/dyno_testing.html
I'd be more than happy to chuck £10 in the pot at each round to have my bike dyno'd - along with everyone elses.
Dyno all the bikes at round 1 - and providing the highest isn't 10bhp clear of everyone else - call that the limit. 70bhp??
Then no need for parc ferme, or stripping engines.
Originally posted by DIBBLE
I think you lot are disappearing up your own jacksies in my humble opinion ......
I spent £5k on this season, and I'll undoubtably spend the same next year. When you spend £10k on racing and someone beats you by cheating it causes mild irritation. I don't know about anyone else, but DD takes up every spare penny I have (and several £k that I don't), which kind of makes it a valid question.
As for the answer, Dom, it's highly unlikely that anyone will cheat with anything that can be seen from the outside (unless it's unintentional). As you say, engine mods are a bit of a trauma to reveal so it'd be very tricky to monitor. Portable dyno at one of the rounds???
dickieducati
20-Oct-2005, 15:10
suits me but at every round it adds to the outlay and some people may grizzle. how about at the first one. then 2 other rounds. but not notifying the competitors till the day?
Originally posted by Tonio600
Message original : domski
What do the rest of you think?
I think I'm racing for fun, and I don't care if other riders cheat with their bike or anything.
You have the correct attitude Antoine.
Unfortunately, for those of us that aren't doing it just for fun, it becomes an important issue.
I can't afford to go racing, so when I do go, I don't want somebody with 75bhp to take positions away from me.
Also, I know I'm a target for protests - I'm not being paranoid and I'm big enough to accept that some people are waiting for me to get a result, so they can protest me.
So if it's gunna happen to me, it's got to be the same for everyone.
There was no parc ferme at Snetterton, and that Corsa front tye could have been put on right after the race - nobody can prove it wasn't - there was no parc ferme!
So there's nothing to stop people doing other things - of which there are many quick cheats to change back in the comfort of your awning.
If we're having such tight controls in the rules - it must be enforced.
Tonio600
20-Oct-2005, 15:13
free dyno for everybody? :D
So cheap racing now needs a dyno at every round...
It's easy enough to check your tyres though eh Dom??? :rolleye:
Originally posted by JPM
So cheap racing now needs a dyno at every round...
There is no such thing!!
It's easy enough to check your tyres though eh Dom??? :rolleye:
That's been dealt with, and if you need clarification as a non-participant that it doesn't affect, then you can ring Chris Bushell or Rich Llewellin.
Now, lets see which of your posts I can pick apart :flame:
Tonio600
20-Oct-2005, 15:41
Actually I don't care about all that because I'm not here to win anything. Reading Ali's post made me understand another point of view. And I know that if I would race for a podium, I would be pi55ed of knowing other guys are cheating.
Finally I don't know what to think, so the guy who speaks the louder can have my vote.
Am I useless? :lol:
[Edité le 20-10-2005 par Tonio600]
OK, just my thoughts......
If a bike is 'thought to be' non-conforming to the rules after/during the first race, if there is no time to check it - it could complete the 2nd race 'under protest'
Some bikes can be made up on HP, with careful working of PC's/FIM's/exhaust performance systems etc.
HOWEVER: it is the mid range capabilities of the engine combined with the benefits of the added items mentioned, that will, with a good rider make the bike perform noticably better.
To determine what made it 'tick', would be to strip it right down.
This whole series has been on the whole, self policing this year, but AK & I did mention to Chris & Michael that the bikes really ought to have a technical inspector who ensured the DD bikes conformed to DD rules, not just the New Era scrutineering.
Personally, we would be happy to take our bikes to 'approved' dyno's, but never like to put them on mobile ones, as the margin for error on these can be quite alarming sometimes (says AK)
End of me wittering... back to work now......
C:)
butch890
20-Oct-2005, 15:59
I had a thought that i put forward to the RC ,Have the draw for the free tyres before the races and they are the 2 bikes that are checked.
We have had an offer from a well respected engineer to come to random rounds and check engines,over to you
Butch
Bloody good idea Butch:)
fumbs up from here
:yawn::rolleye:
why .?? is there so much cheating or questions over the eligibity of some bikes.!!
seems OTT to me..........
skidlids
20-Oct-2005, 16:17
As my engine came from a breakers being made to take it apart wouldn't be the end of the world as I'm sure I could put it back together better than it was before, with a chance to sort squish, cam timing and valve clearances and even grind the valves in to ensure good seating.
I think random checks should be carried out, I see they CB500 and Hornets had a Parc Ferme at Brands when we were there and when I was at Pembrey they had one for the Streetstock class so it is part of club racing and therefore there is no reason not to have a random one now and again.
I have to say I think this is all getting WAY too serious, there are 5 months before the start of next years racing and you are all getting so het up about it all.
Dyno's are very variable so unless you used the same one all season you could in theory have an engine which is perfectly legal but at one round is seen to be outside of the rules(assuming we use Dom's power cap idea) without being any more powerful.
To use a Parc Ferme is a good idea in principle (as CB500's) but assumes that someone from the club-with appropriate knowledge-is going to make themselves available to be at every round to check bikes-bit of a committment don't you think? I know you guys are going to be at the races but then you are racing. I won't be at every round next year-I have other things in my life, and I don't have the knowledge of 2 valve Ducati's. I think we have hoped that this would be self policing-as it has been this year-if you really think someone is seriously cheating then you protest them and the engine gets stripped. To pick on Dom with the tyre thing as a bit unfair-Rich made an honest mistake, it is also a very easy thing for other racers to spot.
I would love to know where the "with 75bhp" comes from Dom-as far as I understand it you would have a job to get 70bhp from a 620?-unless of course you think someone is secretly running an 800??
To be honest if you are all generating this much heat with 5 months still to go I don't think we will have a series at all by next year-you'll all be in an asylum................nutters the lot of you.:lol:
John
One of the sad things about human nature is that wherever competition is involved people will 'interpret' the rules to their advantage. Sometimes this will result in a mild bending, (perhaps unintentionally) of the rules, sometimes in a cynical and blatant flouting of the rules.
This has applied in EVERY form of motorsport I've EVER competed in however lowly it is in the scheme of things.
People running an 1800cc engine in a 1300cc class! People getting away with running slicks on a tarmac rallying stage when they're supposed to be running control road tyres (scrutineers can't keep up with all the class rules)! Even in twin shock club trials, where the 'prize' at the end of the season is a grotty plastic cup and a ripple of applause from 10 people and a dog, people have been known to install innards from the latest bikes in their forks.
Desmodue has been truly remarkable in it's first season for it's sportsmanship, spirit and general lack of bitchiness (although it's had it's moments). I sincerely hope it can remain like that!
I hope as it grows it doesn't get all bitter and twisted by the competitive streak in all human nature, but it will need to be vigilant.
Harv748
20-Oct-2005, 16:36
Originally posted by Monty
I have to say I think this is all getting WAY too serious, there are 5 months before the start of next years racing and you are all getting so het up about it all.
Dyno's are very variable so unless you used the same one all season you could in theory have an engine which is perfectly legal but at one round is seen to be outside of the rules(assuming we use Dom's power cap idea) without being any more powerful.
To use a Parc Ferme is a good idea in principle (as CB500's) but assumes that someone from the club-with appropriate knowledge-is going to make themselves available to be at every round to check bikes-bit of a committment don't you think? I know you guys are going to be at the races but then you are racing. I won't be at every round next year-I have other things in my life, and I don't have the knowledge of 2 valve Ducati's. I think we have hoped that this would be self policing-as it has been this year-if you really think someone is seriously cheating then you protest them and the engine gets stripped. To pick on Dom with the tyre thing as a bit unfair-Rich made an honest mistake, it is also a very easy thing for other racers to spot.
I would love to know where the "with 75bhp" comes from Dom-as far as I understand it you would have a job to get 70bhp from a 620?-unless of course you think someone is secretly running an 800??
To be honest if you are all generating this much heat with 5 months still to go I don't think we will have a series at all by next year-you'll all be in an asylum................nutters the lot of you.:lol:
John
Well said...and as a non-entrant I feel its starting to look like a bit of a joke from the outside.
You could just buy a standard multistrudle...leave it standard...and use your (thats refers to anyone) talents to whoop the majority of the field...a bit like Mr Neeves?
Nah...that would be too easy:puzzled:
dickieducati
20-Oct-2005, 16:42
its a valid point if you are racing and putting alot of time and effort in. there is no point in having rules if they cant be checked or upheld.
i think there should be a forum for entrants to discuss racing matters.
Originally posted by dickieducati
i think there should be a forum for entrants to discuss racing matters.
There is mate - it's the Desmo Due forum.
It amazes me that people read threads in the Desmo Due forum and complain about them or whatever as it's obvious that anything in this forum is about Desmo Due (sometimes loosely I grant you). To say you only read by Today's Posts is a pathetic excuse as you can see what forum a thread is in before you go into it on Today's Posts.
It especially amazes me from people who should know better who start making comments about people discussing their own race series.
FFS - get a life!
Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by dickieducati
i think there should be a forum for entrants to discuss racing matters.
There is mate - it's the Desmo Due forum.
It amazes me that people read threads in the Desmo Due forum and complain about them or whatever as it's obvious that anything in this forum is about Desmo Due (sometimes loosely I grant you). To say you only read by Today's Posts is a pathetic excuse as you can see what forum a thread is in before you go into it on Today's Posts.
It especially amazes me from people who should know better who start making comments about people discussing their own race series.
FFS - get a life!
Their own race series? Or the club's race series?
Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by dickieducati
i think there should be a forum for entrants to discuss racing matters.
There is mate - it's the Desmo Due forum.
It amazes me that people read threads in the Desmo Due forum and complain about them or whatever as it's obvious that anything in this forum is about Desmo Due (sometimes loosely I grant you). To say you only read by Today's Posts is a pathetic excuse as you can see what forum a thread is in before you go into it on Today's Posts.
It especially amazes me from people who should know better who start making comments about people discussing their own race series.
FFS - get a life!
well said tony.............
Originally posted by Jools
Their own race series? Or the club's race series?
I'm not sure what you're question/point is Jools?
:puzzled:
:o And there was me thinking this was going to be a bit of a giggle, all turning a bit serious here!
Not meaning to sound rude or take anything away from the DD races, but if you're serious about a racing career, do you really think you should be in a series that is basically a step on from trackdays to introduce novices to a race paddock :puzzled:
Well TP,
It especially amazes me from people who should know better who start making comments about people discussing their own race series.
their own race series seems to imply that the participants are the only stakeholders and that it doesn't belong to the club anymore?
dickieducati
20-Oct-2005, 17:37
Originally posted by Grib
:o And there was me thinking this was going to be a bit of a giggle, all turning a bit serious here!
Not meaning to sound rude or take anything away from the DD races, but if you're serious about a racing career, do you really think you should be in a series that is basically a step on from trackdays to introduce novices to a race paddock :puzzled:
no dont worry it definitely a giggle, but we still have some 'discussion' on here at times.
it may be introducing novices to racing, ie me, but we allstill want to do our best and take it seriously when we get out there.:D
Originally posted by JPM
So cheap racing now needs a dyno at every round...
It's easy enough to check your tyres though eh Dom??? :rolleye:
WTF would you say that...??........comment on the dyno sure .!but then an underhand comment about dom getting disqualified.???? ..wots the point.?
jeeez
ChrisBushell
20-Oct-2005, 17:38
The title of the series is:
Ducati Sporting Club Desmo Due Race series
For the avoidance of doubt!
When has any sport not been serious?
I'm sorry to crush any thoughts you had of it just being a bit of fun, but people won't let you pass with a friendly wave.
This is racing and it matters to everyone where we finish - no matter what anyone says.
[nobody will stuff you into the armco though - its not that serious]
To some, this thread may seem pathetic or ridiculous, but they are people to whom it doesn't concern anyway.
The 583 class (which I believe you're doing?) is more likely to be more laid back - if that's possible. Also any cheating in 583 will be more easy to spot as all the bikes will make around the same bhp.
In the 620 class, some will have 60bhp and some nearer 70bhp, and it's easy to get well over 70bhp if you wanted, and why not 'bend' the rules a bit too if no-one is checking?
The point I'm trying to make is, that as no engines were checked this year, and no parc ferme was used - whats the point in having such tight rules if they're not enforced properly?
May as well say that as long as the engine displaces 583 or 618cc - which is very easily checked - then you can do anything else you like.
You'll soon reach a limit on bhp, and then everyone can go that route if they wish - or do something else!!
[Edited on 20-10-2005 by domski]
Originally posted by dickieducati
no dont worry it definitely a giggle, but we still have some 'discussion' on here at times.
it may be introducing novices to racing, ie me, but we allstill want to do our best and take it seriously when we get out there.:D
Absolutely, but there seems to be a little bit of paranoia regarding cheating here! If anyone really believes there is a cheat in our midst then get something done about it. I don't get the whole parc ferme thing, never heard it used other than for the mini-twins who all get dynoed.
I think a parc ferme for a club series is a complete waste of time ... unless it is suspected that one of the front runners (top 6 ?) are running some 'loophole' in the regs that they havnt discussed with the technical committee.
As for the rest of us ... is there some prize money up for grabs that I havnt heard of ?
If not, anyone running an 'illegal' bike is only cheating themselves.
Originally posted by Jools
Well TP,
It especially amazes me from people who should know better who start making comments about people discussing their own race series.
their own race series seems to imply that the participants are the only stakeholders and that it doesn't belong to the club anymore?
Nope, you've completely grabbed the wrong end of the stick.
At no point was anything I said to the exclusion of the wider club membership. The series DOES belong to riders, because they are club members the same as everyone else. I never said that it doesn't belong to anyone else in the club nor do I mean to infer that. Nor am I inferring that members outside the series shouldn't share their opinion on the series. I think you're reading between the lines too much.
My point is some people have a pop and a dig at people for discussing the series on the message board for no valid reason. The Desmo Due forum is here for that VERY reason. And if other club members don't like it they should stay out of the DD forum and concentrate on what they do like about the message board/club and stop bloody whining like .... things that whine a lot ;) !
In my humble opinion.
:D :lol:
Originally posted by phil_h
I think a parc ferme for a club series is a complete waste of time ... unless it is suspected that one of the front runners (top 6 ?) are running some 'loophole' in the regs that they havnt discussed with the technical committee.
As for the rest of us ... is there some prize money up for grabs that I havnt heard of ?
If not, anyone running an 'illegal' bike is only cheating themselves.
:lol::lol::lol:
Only the top 6 are likely to cheat then?
How about someone finishing in 7th coz they're running an illegal engine, and would normally finish 15th?
They're hardly just cheating themselves are they.
The only way you can stop cheating is by opening the rules up so that there is no room for cheating.
Have basic principles e.g. weight, engine capacity etc and then, anything else goes.
Otherwise saying 70bhp limit, or no this and that - if nobody checks EVERY bike, how can the rules be enforced?
Had a bad day in the cab Dom ?
This is a small club series we're talking about here by the way.
Stop practising your moaning techniques on us or I wont buy any more of your corsa tyres with the corsa logo carefully scraped off.
(They were wasted on me anyway :sniff: )
[Edited on 20-10-2005 by phil_h]
Managed to post twice then delete everything there...what's going on, LOL!
Dom, I don't doubt everyone takes it seriously once they're out there, but I'm not going just to come back stressed after every round cos I didn't get a trophy, is is purely for fun, to improve my riding and get away from the trackday idiots :) I don't want it to be overly serious and complicated is all.
Just noticed - 42 replies and only 5 of us voted :rolleye:
Originally posted by phil_h
Had a bad day in the cab Dom ?
This is a small club series we're talking about here by the way.
Stop practising your moaning techniques on us or I wont buy any more of your corsa tyres with the corsa logo carefully scraped off.
(They were wasted on me anyway :sniff: )
[Edited on 20-10-2005 by phil_h]
:lol:;)
Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by Jools
Well TP,
It especially amazes me from people who should know better who start making comments about people discussing their own race series.
their own race series seems to imply that the participants are the only stakeholders and that it doesn't belong to the club anymore?
Nope, you've completely grabbed the wrong end of the stick.
At no point was anything I said to the exclusion of the wider club membership. The series DOES belong to riders, because they are club members the same as everyone else. I never said that it doesn't belong to anyone else in the club nor do I mean to infer that. Nor am I inferring that members outside the series shouldn't share their opinion on the series. I think you're reading between the lines too much.
My point is some people have a pop and a dig at people for discussing the series on the message board for no valid reason. The Desmo Due forum is here for that VERY reason. And if other club members don't like it they should stay out of the DD forum and concentrate on what they do like about the message board/club and stop bloody whining like .... things that whine a lot ;) !
In my humble opinion.
:D :lol:
Fair enough TP, I apologise if I've clambered on the old hobby horse...
I hope my only contribution prior to your message (my post about bending rules being human nature) didn't come across as whining? If it did, it wasn't meant to, and it certainly wasn't a pop at any individual. I was just trying to share that in my experience of motorsport (which I've been involved in, in some small way or another, for most of my adult life) some people will always try bending the rules sooner or later and it's usually in the second or third season of a new class being launched.
Originally posted by Grib
Managed to post twice then delete everything there...what's going on, LOL!
Dom, I don't doubt everyone takes it seriously once they're out there, but I'm not going just to come back stressed after every round cos I didn't get a trophy, is is purely for fun, to improve my riding and get away from the trackday idiots :) I don't want it to be overly serious and complicated is all.
You'll have a great time ;)
It's only complocated by the fact that the rules require stringent checks - something that seems very hard to arrange...
...and this isn't a dig at anyone either, just trying to bounce ideas around and see how we can sort 'our' series out.
The rules are great for next year, but need to be enforced or loosened so that cheating isn't possible.
Originally posted by Jools
Fair enough TP, I apologise if I've clambered on the old hobby horse...
I hope my only contribution prior to your message (my post about bending rules being human nature) didn't come across as whining? If it did, it wasn't meant to, and it certainly wasn't a pop at any individual. I was just trying to share that in my experience of motorsport (which I've been involved in, in some small way or another, for most of my adult life) some people will always try bending the rules sooner or later and it's usually in the second or third season of a new class being launched.
No worries Jools, I certainly didn't have your post in mind as I hobbled onto the soapbox :D
I'd offer you an olive branch but Dickie's been around and cut them all down to make baseball bats out of them.
:lol:
couchcommando
20-Oct-2005, 18:02
Dom, if you are serious about making a racing career then you are in the wrong class simple as that. If you believe you have the talent to make a career (and I wish you luck) then a few ho is going to make no difference. If you don't believe me take a look at Dan Hegarty the young kid we are taking to national superstocks next year. He beat a club F600 champion on Pere Riba's ZX6RR with 130hp on his completely standard R6 cup bike, giving away nearly 30hp. This is the sort of talent needed to succeed in racing. Club racing is the bottom rung and if you can't win at club level even with a 25-30hp deficit you will never make it any further. I'm sorry if this is harsh but it's true.
As for the question yeh go for it, anyone can strip my bike at any time. Of course who picks up the bill for it being rebuilt at the tuner of my choice I don't know.
I've entered this series as I saw a nicely run series this year, I had enough of an open class where there were no rules and people were running ex bsb bikes, I could never afford to tune a bike that far or run it ! So the DD class is ideal for me, I will never go anywhere other than mid pack club racing at my age and I accept that so this looks like great fun :) :)
Originally posted by Jools
I hope my only contribution prior to your message (my post about bending rules being human nature) didn't come across as whining? If it did, it wasn't meant to, and it certainly wasn't a pop at any individual. I was just trying to share that in my experience of motorsport (which I've been involved in, in some small way or another, for most of my adult life) some people will always try bending the rules sooner or later and it's usually in the second or third season of a new class being launched.
I don't think your initial post was the point of any contention.
I think it was other non competitors just having a pop which rubbed us sad DD'ers up the wrong way ;)
Your post was actually good :o
:D
Originally posted by couchcommando
Dom, if you are serious about making a racing career then you are in the wrong class simple as that. If you believe you have the talent to make a career (and I wish you luck) then a few ho is going to make no difference.
You have me completely misunderstood Tony.
I don't want to make a career out of racing - I'm 29, too slow and too poor!!
Originally posted by couchcommando
Dom, if you are serious about making a racing career then you are in the wrong class simple as that. If you believe you have the talent to make a career (and I wish you luck) then a few ho is going to make no difference. If you don't believe me take a look at Dan Hegarty the young kid we are taking to national superstocks next year. He beat a club F600 champion on Pere Riba's ZX6RR with 130hp on his completely standard R6 cup bike, giving away nearly 30hp. This is the sort of talent needed to succeed in racing. Club racing is the bottom rung and if you can't win at club level even with a 25-30hp deficit you will never make it any further. I'm sorry if this is harsh but it's true.
As for the question yeh go for it, anyone can strip my bike at any time. Of course who picks up the bill for it being rebuilt at the tuner of my choice I don't know.
I've entered this series as I saw a nicely run series this year, I had enough of an open class where there were no rules and people were running ex bsb bikes, I could never afford to tune a bike that far or run it ! So the DD class is ideal for me, I will never go anywhere other than mid pack club racing at my age and I accept that so this looks like great fun :) :)
Just for fun huh...............on the no8 bike...LOL..u better remove those hi-comp pistons then............:P
couchcommando
20-Oct-2005, 18:09
Originally posted by domski
Originally posted by couchcommando
Dom, if you are serious about making a racing career then you are in the wrong class simple as that. If you believe you have the talent to make a career (and I wish you luck) then a few ho is going to make no difference.
You have me completely misunderstood Tony.
I don't want to make a career out of racing - I'm 29, too slow and too poor!!
bugger, that's how I read it but hey ho ignore all the above if that's the case :)
TBH I am well used to bikes being quicker down the straights and I don't suppose the DD bike will be any different after all 15st and 56.92hp don't mix too well ;)
My point was just - if the rules are to be enforced properly - there must be a parc ferme after every race AND someone who knows what they're looking at if a bike is protested.
Neither seem easy to sort out, so why bother with such specific rules - coz people will 'bend' them if they know they won't be checked... like this year!
That's all.
Also, I think you'll find your new bike makes 61bhp - alledgedly :lol: ;)
Tonio600
20-Oct-2005, 18:14
Dom you can't say that nobody's racing in DD for fun. That's just wrong. I do it for fun and I'm sure not to be the only one. I don't care about my position. I can finish last once again (or even twice) I don't care, as soon as I feel I'm improving.
Some people seem to take part in the series mainly because it's a race series they can win (or they *think* they can win...). I'm taking part in it only because it's on a Ducati I can afford. I joigned the series because I love Ducatis, and I will stay in it because now I love that club.
So for people like me, this idea of "parc ferme" (stupid French words...) is just a joke.
Originally posted by Tonio600
Dom you can't say that nobody's racing in DD for fun. That's just wrong. I do it for fun and I'm sure not to be the only one. I don't care about my position. I can finish last once again (or even twice) I don't care, as soon as I feel I'm improving.
Why do you need to improve if you're doing it just for fun?
It obviously does matter to you.
ALSO... I do it for fun too, but I also want to win - but that's just in my nature - I'm competitive.
:D
[Edited on 20-10-2005 by domski]
couchcommando
20-Oct-2005, 18:21
LOL FYI I am only doing it for fun too Dom, results don't matter a jot to me :)
Everyone calmed down now? Group hug? http://www.mcnninjas.co.uk/forum/Smileys/mcnninjas_classic/icon_pai.gif :P
In that case, everyone doing it for fun - stay behind me please, coz I'm wanting to get to the front ;)
:lol:
Originally posted by couchcommando
LOL FYI I am only doing it for fun too Dom, results don't matter a jot to me :)
It matters to your new bike..its used to winning............:P
couchcommando
20-Oct-2005, 18:25
LOL I'll be behind you anyway :puzzled:
Originally posted by domski
In that case, everyone doing it for fun - stay behind me please, coz I'm wanting to get to the front ;)
:lol: :puzzled:
Originally posted by Grib
Everyone calmed down now? Group hug? http://www.mcnninjas.co.uk/forum/Smileys/mcnninjas_classic/icon_pai.gif :P
You aint seen nuttin over here yet!
I've only just opened my first beer ;)
Originally posted by fil2
Originally posted by couchcommando
LOL FYI I am only doing it for fun too Dom, results don't matter a jot to me :)
It matters to your new bike..its used to winning............:P
Now that is harsh!!! :lol:
Naughty Phillip :smug:
Anyway Fil, your opinion don't count coz you're in the 'B' class. Leave the important decisions to the proper racers :o :lol:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::P:D
Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by Grib
Everyone calmed down now? Group hug? http://www.mcnninjas.co.uk/forum/Smileys/mcnninjas_classic/icon_pai.gif :P
You aint seen nuttin over here yet!
I've only just opened my first beer ;)
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sing:
Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by Grib
Everyone calmed down now? Group hug? http://www.mcnninjas.co.uk/forum/Smileys/mcnninjas_classic/icon_pai.gif :P
You aint seen nuttin over here yet!
I've only just opened my first beer ;)
OK, are you a happy, cuddly drunk or an angry, sweary one? Just so I know what's coming next ;)
So basically, we're agreed that I'll be allowed to fit a 999 engine and win the races, whilst everyone else (who's doing it for fun) just rides around behind me.
Great!! Why didn't you just say that in the beginning ;)
:lol:
Originally posted by Grib
OK, are you a happy, cuddly drunk or an angry, sweary one? Just so I know what's coming next ;)
Not even my therapist can answer that :)
:o
Well, there's no stella in the house so more of the former and less of the latter.
:D
[Edited on 20-10-2005 by TP]
Originally posted by Harv748
Well said...and as a non-entrant I feel its starting to look like a bit of a joke from the outside.
Thanks. Very constructive.
You could just buy a standard multistrudle...leave it standard...and use your (thats refers to anyone) talents to whoop the majority of the field...a bit like Mr Neeves?
Nah...that would be too easy:puzzled:
That the Mr Neeves I passed with 10bhp less.?
Originally posted by ali
Originally posted by Harv748
Well said...and as a non-entrant I feel its starting to look like a bit of a joke from the outside.
Thanks. Very constructive.
You could just buy a standard multistrudle...leave it standard...and use your (thats refers to anyone) talents to whoop the majority of the field...a bit like Mr Neeves?
Nah...that would be too easy:puzzled:
That the Mr Neeves I passed with 10bhp less.?
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
You go girl!! ;)
Tonio600
20-Oct-2005, 18:37
Message original : domski
Originally posted by Tonio600
Dom you can't say that nobody's racing in DD for fun. That's just wrong. I do it for fun and I'm sure not to be the only one. I don't care about my position. I can finish last once again (or even twice) I don't care, as soon as I feel I'm improving.
Why do you need to improve if you're doing it just for fun?
For the road mate... I don't want to die on a roadside like too many guys who didn't control their bike. I already know when I'll stop racing, it will be next year or the year after, for sure.
It obviously does matter to you.
No it doesn't. Believe me.
ALSO... I do it for fun too, but I also want to win - but that's just in my nature - I'm competitive.
I'm not competitive at all. That's just in my nature. I think I'm too conscious...
Tonio600
20-Oct-2005, 18:38
Message original : domski
So basically, we're agreed that I'll be allowed to fit a 999 engine and win the races, whilst everyone else (who's doing it for fun) just rides around behind me.
You sure everybody will be behind you???? :lol::lol::lol:
Originally posted by Tonio600
Message original : domski
So basically, we're agreed that I'll be allowed to fit a 999 engine and win the races, whilst everyone else (who's doing it for fun) just rides around behind me.
You sure everybody will be behind you???? :lol::lol::lol:
Well, nobody else cares - Everyone is doing it for fun :P
butch890
20-Oct-2005, 19:24
good luck to ANYONE running a bent bike,i for one can sleep at night!:lol:
Butch
Originally posted by butch890
good luck to ANYONE running a bent bike,i for one can sleep at night!:lol:
Butch
Fancy running a bike in minitwins Grahame?
I know this guy see ...
:D
butch890
20-Oct-2005, 19:27
Is that in addition to the 2 620r's and the 583 guest bike?
Butch
Originally posted by butch890
Is that in addition to the 2 620r's and the 583 guest bike?
Butch
I don't mind if you dump one of those to make way for the minitwin bike :D
butch890
20-Oct-2005, 19:35
Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by butch890
Is that in addition to the 2 620r's and the 583 guest bike?
Butch
I don't mind if you dump one of those to make way for the minitwin bike :D
TP need both 620's and i cant see the CSS lads being to happy about me ditching the 583 !
Butch
Originally posted by butch890
TP need both 620's and i cant see the CSS lads being to happy about me ditching the 583 !
Butch
Bugger!
Oh well ... if you change your mind ...
skidlids
20-Oct-2005, 19:44
Dom have you not worked it out yet, part of the fun is beating you ! thats why so many say they are doing it for fun.
Me I know better having seen you race before I was having fun just trying to keep you in view, then in that last round you did a proper disapearing act. :(
Missed this post today... must work less!
Firstly, a valid point for discussion Dom, but no vote from me cos I don't care enough.
Whether or not the bikes are checked is neither here nor there for me, but the rules need to be in place because most (if not all) riders/teams want to play fair and will voluntarily not break them.
If we go down the road of "no parc ferme, no rules" then it just turns into cheque-book racing.
And as I found out at Snet, you don't have to mess around with your OWN bike to cheat! If someone is wanting to cheat then they'll do so one way or another, but that's just like going out shopping to buy a trophy... their victory would mean nothing, but if found out then they would almost certainly be taken behind the bogs for a 'chat'!
phoenix n max
20-Oct-2005, 21:27
I agree with Nick - The rules need to be in place in the first place. Folks WILL cheat, the more the series opens up etc the more chance there is to happen.
Put the rules in now as deterrent if nothing else.
It's all been very nice and friendly this season. It won't always be that way sadly.
Fwiw I too can sleep at night doing all season on a 99 583 with no mods other than dyno kit and cans, unless you count my less than regulation laccy band ensuring my rear brake doesn't lock on like it did at Brands :sniff:
Harv748
20-Oct-2005, 21:44
Originally posted by ali
Originally posted by Harv748
Well said...and as a non-entrant I feel its starting to look like a bit of a joke from the outside.
Thanks. Very constructive.
You could just buy a standard multistrudle...leave it standard...and use your (thats refers to anyone) talents to whoop the majority of the field...a bit like Mr Neeves?
Nah...that would be too easy:puzzled:
That the Mr Neeves I passed with 10bhp less.?
Ali, the first comment was NOT aimed at the Desmo Due series in gerneral, and if thats how it was taken then I apologise. I think you'll struggle to find anyone within the DSC who thinks that the series is a joke. Even as a non entrant I have travelled to watch the racing and really enjoyed it and the whole experience. I always keep an eye out for the results as I have several mates riding in it, not necessarily at the cutting edge, whom I enjoy watching and hearing off giving 110% for the fun of it. It was a comment aimed more at the way this series and some of the comments made within, at times almost seem to be its own worst enemy.
Just don't lose track of what it was all about in the first place thats all.
WELL WELL WELL
if you lot race as good as you chuck handbags then i think were in for a good series next year :lol::lol:
i've made my vote and feel when rules are strictly involved they need to be police'd properly.
just take a look at mro/bemsee minitwins series
dyno at every round for random testing ( every bike's had it this year)
parc ferme for 1/2 hr to deal with any complaints/protests/ machine checks.
the top 2 bikes in championship were stripped/ checked at brands final round by a top mechanic at random and were found to be within the rules.
but as the saying goes
rules are there to be broken
let's hope it does'nt happen in dd 2006 and get the rules police'd properly
;);)
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