Remembrance Sunday

[philthy]

It's that day again.

Since my dad died I take my mum to the local war memorial for the service. She was in the Wrens at Beauliu in the new forest during the war, and assisted in a small way in the organising of the Normandy landings.

My dad was on mine sweepers and after he died I found an old photo album holding photo's of him, his vessel and the rest of the crew. I wish now I had asked him more questions about what he did.

We meet up with a friend and his Grandad at the service. Amongst his grandads medals is one presented by the French quite recently. He and his tank regiment stayed behind after Dunkirk and fought a rearguard action against German tanks during which time their tank took a direct hit. The rest of the crew were killed instantly and he has described to me the scene inside the tank after they were hit in graphic detail. He suffered terrible leg injuries and now walks with the aid of sticks.

Last year my mum asked me to wear my dads medals ( On the right ) and I was very unhappy about this because I thought that others might think I was a fraud. I put them on my suit jacket under my coat.

When we went to ''The Legion'' after the service I removed my coat and jacket revealing the medals, and was horrified when my friends grandad pointed his stick at me and with an angry face said ''What are they doing there''. I went crimson and wanted the ground to open up. ''They're my dads medals''. He started banging his stick on the ground and asked me again why they were there. By now the sweat was dripping off me and I stammered the same reply to which he responded '' They're your dads medals and you should be proud to wear them where we can all see them, not hidden away like that!'' It took me ages to stop sweating!

This year I am wearing them on the outside ( With some trepidation I must admit.) And for the first time my 16 year old son will be with us which will be nice. He is thinking about joining the T.A. hopefully as a sniper and I know that he could end up in Iraq like others here.

The numbers at the Legion after the service are diminishing
each year now, and it is for me, an honour to talk to and buy a pint for those men and women who are REAL HEROES unlike the footballers etc who are idolised and called heroes today.

Is'nt it sad that we are today still asking our brave servicemen and women to face the same horrors in other parts of the world, and that they too face the same risks as another generation 60 years ago.

Yes, it's a very special day today.

Phil

[Edited on 13-11-2005 by philthy]

[Stu748R]

My dad was a test pilot in the R A F in ww2 and your right,we should never forget..........

[NBs996]

wear them medals without anxiety chap, the world is a better place for them to have been won.

I have my grandfathers service medals in a box in the attick... think I'll go get them out and make a new home in the lounge for them.

Lest we forget.

[uncle porry]

fair play to you mate for wearing the medals. i go to my local remembrance service every year, we owe it to those who fought for our freedom...

[Ains.]

You know chaps, I was going to put a post up about Armistice day on the 11th, then thought nah, I'll get the pis* taken. So didn't bother.

Big old background of the services in my family.
Great Uncle Sid - gased at Hooge 1915
Great Grand father WW1 The Blackwatch
Uncle Stan - Torpedo'd in the Pacific WW2 spent 48 hours in the water. Went back through the hole in the ship before it sank to get his best mate. No medals for that.
Uncle Ernie RAF WW2
Uncle Bill - RATC Burma WW2
Uncle Vernon - Ditto
My Granda Casson - Border Regt WW1
Grandma Casson's brother WW1 Pioneer Corp - Buring bodies mainly.
My Granddad Cpl Peaper- 1st/7th Mddx Regt. DOW at Dunkirk June 1940
The owd mon R N - Palestine 1947-9

We didn't find out where Granddad Peaper was buried until 1984 we started looking in 1966; and either I or my mum have gone to Ypres every year since for 11th Nov.

Any others of you reading this post, get on a Eurostar or ride over to Belgium. Ypres is 1 1/2 hours from Calais on the bike. Get there as the sun comes up and stand under the Menin Gate, you can't miss it. And try and read the names at the top of the arch. Then go straight down the road ahead until you get to Tyne Cot, there are 12,000 brits buried in there and the rest of the memorial to the missing.
I think there are 35,000 names on it
One in four of all the missing of The Great war are missing in and around Ypres and GB took 900,000 dead and nearly 2 million wounded. They are found every year and are reburied in Bedford Cemetry just outside Ypres.

At 6PM every day the traffic is stopped by the Gate and the last post is played. EVERY DAY without fail. 4 buglers play it.
It never fails to make me burst in to tears.

11th November should be a Public Holiday in the UK.

Maybe one day all the little thugs and fuggin hooligans might be dragged over there for community service and made to spend a week tending the war graves around Ypres. It might teach the little sh*ts a bit of humility.

Ains.
PS: 11 bells on the boat I was on at 11AM 11/11 too. Always have, always will. :(

[philthy]

Well I've just got back from the Legion with two very happy veterans.

It has been a lovely sunny day here and the biggest turnout at the service I've seen in years. Just before 11a.m. an old Douglas Dakota flew over us on its way to drop poppies over the Mersey. All eyes turned upward and I'm sure it stirred more than a few memories to many of those present.

Some of the men looked very frail compared to last year, and when you see them standing next to a young soldier it's hard to imagine them as they must have been 60 years ago.

My friends Grandad was so pleased that I had worn my Dads and father in laws medals that it made up for the telling off I got from him last year, and a couple of old boys said '' Well done lad '' ( I'm 50! )when they saw them.

Ains, I have been to the Somme and when you see those cemetaries you would have to have a heart of stone not to cry. I know I did, many times.

Phil

[MJS]

My Dad served in the RAF in WW2, ok, he wasn't aircrew or anything glamorous, he doesn't have any medals (that I'm aware of), he was just a fitter on Lancasters. But everyone did their bit, he helped keep the aircraft flying, we should all be proud of what the elder members of society did for us, the freedom they fought for. It saddens me the lack of respect some people show these days.
To those who fought for the freedom I enjoy today, Thankyou.
Martin

[philthy]

Martin

I was talking to someone who flew in Halifaxes today.

He was full of praise for the ground crews and said that they did a marvelous job repairing the planes for the next mission. ( He did 30 missions ) So your dad wasn't '' just a fitter '' he was an important part of a very large team.

Your dad would have been awarded medals I'm sure. Perhaps like my mum he didn't claim them at the time. I would encourage you to find out more from him while he is still alive. If he didn't claim them he can still get them from the m.o.d. U2U me if you wish.

Phil

[Ains.]

Originally posted by philthy
Martin

I was talking to someone who flew in Halifaxes today.

He was full of praise for the ground crews and said that they did a marvelous job repairing the planes for the next mission. ( He did 30 missions ) So your dad wasn't '' just a fitter '' he was an important part of a very large team.

Your dad would have been awarded medals I'm sure. Perhaps like my mum he didn't claim them at the time. I would encourage you to find out more from him while he is still alive. If he didn't claim them he can still get them from the m.o.d. U2U me if you wish.

Phil

To right. The link to find out how to claim for past service is as follows:

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals_folder/medals_open.htm


Ains.

[yorkie]

Lets hope that it still continues, for a long long time to come.
I watched the festival of remembrance last night, that always shows a good selection of old and new, including the latest receiprient of the VC.

Yorkie.

I find it sad when the older members have to sell their medals to make ends meet. They fought/served for our country and have little support now.

[GsxrAge]

My grandad was only in the home guard in ww2 as he was a farmer but I have his helmet under the stairs.


I did make sure that we all stopped the machines at work at 11am on the 11th day of the 11th month I feel it the least we can do.


RESPECT :cool::cool::cool:

[blueduke]

On a similar theme, This saturday 12th

Venue; Southend High steet, Outside Maccy Ds

Two very proud veterans In full Medal's with colleting tins and poppies

with a queue forming of local yoof's waiting to put money in !!
Nice to see!

May be the youngsters now are better informed and Now Do realise what those people gave for freedom so long ago.

[pibbow]

We should never forget the sacrifice others made. Its a shame that we as humans don't learn from it. Today was a very sad day for many millions including myself (lost 2 great grandfathers in ww1.

[Ian]

All very interesting and good post here. Ains, you mention a trip that I plan to do myself, a trip that I have for a long time felt that I have to make on my own, be interested to know if you guys that have been have also done it that way.

My Grandfather never spoke of WW1 to anybody other than me and he only did that when he was on deathbed, the night before he died. - I was 11 at the time and did not fully understand what he was telling me. I also could never understand why as I grew up he would silently walk away shaking his head when I was playing with my soldiers or making the machine gun noises with anything that resembled a gun. A few years on and I was reluctantly sitting there in my English Lit class when the subject switched to war poetry of WW1, - I was hit by a bolt as things fell into place.

A few years ago I spent a day in the Imperial war museum, after booking my time in their library a really helpful person bought me a pile of books with references of my grandfather’s regiment. I traced where he had been on the day he got blown up; Hill 41 Ypres, - I also discovered and put into place what he had told me of a tour of duty; a tour that took them behind enemy lines on reconnaissance immediately before The first Battle of the Somme. A tour of Duty that so decimated his regiment that the few became "lucky" enough to be rested on that first day of the battle of the Somme as they waited for new recruits.

I still have his medals, - and his spurs, he was in The City of London Yeomanry, I have the pieces of shrapnel that were removed from his back, the letters and the Christmas cards home, including the one written the day before he was injured, and dictated letters written by nurses from Bolougne field hospital. I also have photos of him with all his friends, smiling back at the camera, sitting perched on straw bales taken somewhere in Northern France. . I guess I was very lucky that he came back, (would not have been born otherwise!!).

If any of you have not read Birdsong by Sebastian Faulkes I would say go buy it tomorrow, - it is fiction, starts a bit slow as it paints the picture of the summer of 1914 pre war, but when it gets going it is very atmospheric.

[Mad Dog Bianchi]

Being a Yank I am not really in touch with your Remembrance/Commonwealth days, but an Ozzie associate here with me in Japan attended the ceremonies on Sunday (very surprised he wasn't out drinking). There is a very well kept graveyard here and the event was attended by military liaisons, diplomats from a variety of countries including Cameroon for one, and a whole slew of folks. Piper played for about 10 minutes, Last Post (?) by 4 buglers, and a benediction I guess by four reps of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism. Most of the graves are from the fall of Singapore era with a separate section for Ozzies under a gum tree. he was impressed and showed me pictures and I was happy that there were so many attendees, such well kept grounds and so many fresh flowers left. Many left there lives behind to keep us from Fascism and militarism. They deserve our thoughts.

[Crunchy]

When I was a kid I watched "All quiet on the western front" and was so affected I became fascinated by the people who fought in that and other wars. I used to look at old photo's for hours of the soldiers smiling at the photographer and wondering who survived. I used to think, how could they smile knowing that it could be their last day on earth. I was amazed at their bravery.

Then it was my turn. In December 90 I was sent to Iraq and I became one of those happy smiling soldiers preparing for the war. I was constantly reminded of my heroes of all the previous wars and drew great inspiration and strength from them. On the 23 Feb 91 we went over the border. For 3 days, with about 4 hours sleep we fought until Kuwait was free. I don't talk about it much but it was like being involved in an drunken orgy of power and death, were the hangover you have after, you never recover from.

I was watching "Saving Private Ryan" with a friend who has worked for HP most of his life and is a mellow person by nature. After about 10 mins into the movie he stood up and walked out saying things like; these people must have been stupid, how can they do it etc. After the initial anger had die down I realised how ignorant most civilians are as to the mindset of the soldier. Soldiers follow orders but mostly they don't want to let their country, their comrades and most of all themselves down. It takes a special person to be a soldier and I'm glad we still have a special day to remind us of that.

.....and I also happen to think that Birdsong is one of the best books I have ever read. I strongly recommend it;)

[Ains.]

Originally posted by Ian
All very interesting and good post here. Ains, you mention a trip that I plan to do myself, a trip that I have for a long time felt that I have to make on my own, be interested to know if you guys that have been have also done it that way.

A few years on and I was reluctantly sitting there in my English Lit class when the subject switched to war poetry of WW1, - I was hit by a bolt as things fell into place.



Dulce et decorum est propatria mori

Ian,
I've done from Dunkirk down to Verdun and most of the places in between. Including Mons, Hill 60, Mesnes Ridge, Vimy Ridge, Loos, Lens, Sedan, etc. Also D-day beaches and Pegasus Bridge.
If you need some info' let me know.

Next year is the 80th anniverssary of the Battle of the Somme. If I can possibly make it I will be doing a trip there.

It's a 2 hour pad down to the battlefield from Calais.
What about a show of hands; who would do that trip to Lochnegar Crater for 07:30hrs, 1st July 2006?

At that time on that date in 1916 was when the first wave went over. Lochnegar crater is what resulted from one of the mines that the Brits blew at 07:20hrs under the German lines.

I went in 1989, and was standing next to a bloke who I knew I should have recognised, his face was familiar but I couldn't place it. It should have struck me as he was also wearing the VC. It was Grp Capt' Leonard Cheshire!!!

Ains.

[antonye]

I went to the Somme with a load of friends a couple of years back, and it is an amazing place. We visited the Canadian memorial at Vimy (http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=memorials/ww1mem/vimy) and the memorial at Thiepval (http://www.thiepval.org.uk/) which is truly awesome, to think its only the missing. Also went to Verdun too.

As for me, my grandfather and his best mate had read in the paper about a war going on in Europe and thought that it sounded like a change from being 16 and living in Argentina, so he told his mother he was going to a basketball game in the next town and got on the first boat to England.

The British army wouldn't take them due to age and nationality, so they joined the Belgian Royal Free and fought through France and into German, liberating Belsen along the way.

He never talked about his experiences, and I'm sure as a teenager in a foreign country fighting a war that he need not have been involved in was a very frightening experience. Unfortunately he died when I was quite young and I only got the full story when my grandmother died a couple of years ago and my father inherited a lot of his passed-down posessions.

[Jools]

My Grandad was the sub-postmaster at Barton-le-Clay in Bedfordshire for many years. All us kids used to call him "Old Stamper" because of the way he used to frank all the letters. He was a gentle old man, and a little henpecked by the time I got to know him. He died when I was 15, but it's only a few years ago that I got to know a different side of him.

He joined up as soon as he was old enough (and may have even lied about his age) to fight in the First World War. He was a 'runner' who's job was literally run with messages and orders down the trenches and through the lines to various officers - other forms of communication were in their infancy and unreliable. It was a dangerous job, enemy snipers knew the importance of breaking the means of communication and the runners were a constant target. But he survived all of that danger until the second battle of Ypres in April 1915 when the Germans used poison gas for the first time (Chlorine, which quickly destroys the repiratory system when inhaled). My grandad got on the edge of one of these attacks and was gassed. He didn't die, but he copped enough of it to be invalided out of the army.

He could've just sat out the war, but once he'd recovered sufficiently he managed to bluff his way through a medical and re-enlisted - just in time to go back to the Somme.

Like many people he was traumatised by the things he saw and experienced the first time he was out there, I can't begin to imagine the sort of bravery it takes to go re-enlist and volunteer to go back to that sort of hell - especially when you've already fought an honourable war and you don't have to go back.

So, I didn't go to a memorial service. I went and rode my bike with my mates instead because people like my Grandad made those sort of sacrifices and many of them gave their lives so that I would have the freedom to do that - Thanks Old Stamper.

[Edited on 14-11-2005 by Jools]

[Mad Dog Bianchi]

crunchy, that was a nice post. Thanks for going to Kuwait. i have buddies who went as well and I have told them the same. As for Pvt. Ryan, other folks have told me they did not like the movie for various reasons such as the short shrift Brits got, the blood and gore, the stupidity of it all, etc. But I am sure there were similar stories in Juno and Sword, the blood and gore was there for a purpose (graphic telling of the sacrafice our fathers made) and that our move to open a western front helped to topple that madman intent on ruling Europe and perhaps the world. Grunts need to be remembered for all the slogging they have done for us in the past.

[uncle porry]

my "old man" was at driel in holland during operation market garden 1944, its near arnhem of "a bridge to far" fame, i have visited the area many times and would recommend a trip to arnhem/oosterbeek for anyone interested in ww2 history, i would be happy to help with info.

i have had a couple of very, lets say "unusual" experiances on my visits to this battlefield. it hard to explain but at these sort of places you get a feeling in the air of the struggles for survival that went on all those years ago.

[Crunchy]

Thanks Mad dog. The first time I watched the film was in a cinema in Vancouver with my brother (also ex-Army). We both sat there with our mouths open and goose pimples. We couldn't believe how realistic it was. Spielberg managed to show an audience exactly what the ALLIES went through. I wish he would do a film about the 1st world war because to me that was suffering with a capital "S". Maybe he could make "Birdsong" into a film.

[BDG]

This is one of the most poignant posts i've read on the forum for ages, possibly ever.

unfortunately it is all too easy for a lot of people to forget.

Did anyone watch Channel 4 last night on the Battle of the Somme. What an absolute bloody nightmare that must have been. Over a million people from both sides killed, injured or missing.

[clockwork orange]

Thanks for this post folks. You have given me goosebumps and brought tears to my eyes. My Grandad was Merchant Navy in WW2, his ship was ok but their companion ship disappeared without trace off the South African coast one night.

My Dad fought in Rhodesia as it was (rightly or wrongly) and my hubby in Angola (Also rightly or wrongly). As others have said, soldiers are out there for their countries, for us at home and for their mates. The things they see/experience should not have to happen, but unfortunateley the world is an angry place.

These guys/girls carry some pretty awful memories for as long as they live (Rob cannot hear The Last Post without breaking down, even now) and the least we can do is pay tribute to those who have laid down their lives for us.

[Ains.]

Originally posted by BDG
This is one of the most poignant posts i've read on the forum for ages, possibly ever.

unfortunately it is all too easy for a lot of people to forget.

Did anyone watch Channel 4 last night on the Battle of the Somme. What an absolute bloody nightmare that must have been. Over a million people from both sides killed, injured or missing.

1st day of the Somme. Get this. 60,000 casualities in the first 24 hours, over 19,000 dead. 70% of those were killed in the first hour! And that was British and Commonwealth only.

If you want to read a book on the Somme try Lynne McDonalds book, it's called 'The Somme', it has eye witness accounts of what happened and was written when there were enough old soldiers around to tell the story.
The other one is Martin Middlebrook's book.


Ains.

[philthy]

Ian

I went to the Somme with a friend on a Goldwing. We rode near to the cemetaries / battle fields and parked up about 15 - 20 minutes walk away. This gave us time to get '' in tune '' with the feeling of the place before we got there. We would spend time together at the site and then split up to have some time on our own.

We saw organised tours arrive, look around and leave while we stayed on for perhaps another hour after, soaking up the atmosphere.

On your own would be o.k. but I think it would be better to have someone to talk to while you were there. I'm sure we went in April after the ploughing, and then you can see the lines in the fields where the trenches were, and will come across bullets and shells that the farmers have ploughed up.

I have a book by George Ashurst called the Lancashire Fusileer and it was quite an emotional moment when we found, and stood in the sunken lane where he went ''over the top'' on the first day of the attack.

I hope you go - you will never forget the experience if you do.

Phil