Hero's

[888heaven]

With all this talk of heros that have passed away I just find it strange for someone who is not that bothered about football to see how someone that kicks a leather bladder around for 90 minutes however brilliantly can be classed as a hero.
I can see the attraction 90 minutes of actuall work the rest of the time drinking fast cars and fast women.
Is society really going mad, if all the premiership players were sacked on Monday would anyone be bothered or notice till saturday down the pub,in a week they could all be replaced.
Did the world stop when DB left MUTD did the stock market collapse did the primeminister resign?get a life.
If you had a serious accident and needed surgery and they had sacked all the surgeons I think everyone would be affected rather quickly.
7+ years of training, skills that most of us take for granted long hours the constant worry of mistakes years of debt till they earn good money.
I think GB had the Hero working for him not the other way round.

[berto]

;) Testify brother!!!!!

[antonye]

While it is very true what you say, only a few people ever work in jobs which would class them as heroes. However, it doesn't mean that their contribution to society should be treated with any less value.

So the premiership players earn stupidly high wages, but they pay tax on their wages like the rest of us. That amount of tax (more in a week what you or I would pay in a year...) goes into the pot that pays that surgeon's wages and keeps the hospital open in the first place.

If all the priemiership players did get sacked tomorrow, what would fill that multi-billion pound hole that suddenly appeared in the budget? Maybe a nice big tax hike - the equivalent of halving your take home pay? What about the nurses, doctors and support staff that are all needed to run a hospital, living on the breadline then?

So the money that would have been paid to the clubs now stays in the pockets of those hundreds of thousands of people that no longer have anything to do on a saturday afternoon - so what do they spend it on? Booze? Drugs? Cigarettes? No we have an even bigger nation of addicted adults that all require treatment, but no money to keep the hospitals open. You might recoup some money from the duty and tax on booze and fags, but will it be enough?

An extreme example, but remember that things are not always as simple as they first seem, and you have to look at the bigger picture!

People need heroes in their lives to help them learn a sense of what is morally right and wrong, to help build their own lives and maybe give them guidance. George Best will long be a controversial hero for the simple fact that he went from one extreme to the other.

Maybe Bestie has served his purpose in other ways, such highlighting to the youth of today that attaining fabulous riches is not the be-all of life, but that having your health is more important?

Sorry if this is a bit heaving for a monday morning...!

[philthy]

Antonye ..you're right this is a bit heavy for monday morning !

I think the real issue is that the word hero has been hijacked and no longer applies as it should :-

Hero.......man admired for his brave deeds.

Is it brave to play football or be a celebrity or pop idol? I think not.

Is it brave to fight in Iraq, face up to a man with a knife or gun in the street, enter a burning building to save life, or go out in a small boat in a force 9 gale to save a life which has no connection with you whatsoever? Of course it is.
( My apologies if I've left anyone out ) These people are true heroes.

Many of the people commonly called heroes are in fact idols. There is a huge difference. There are idols and fallen idols. Both can act as role models and warnings to us all.

Phil

[bradders]

roberto carlos...hero or idol?? rerportedly ploughs half of his considerable salary into charities associated with street kids of brazil

not sure if that is brave but I would guess the kids who are fed and not murdered because of his help consider him a hero

[Iconic944ss]

Gotta agree - too few real 'heros' in the public eye to be held up as an example.

Thank goodness we all have our own motorcycling heros who I think can be looked up to in this respect.

Randy Mamola as just one example.

Just my penny's worth.

Frank

[Dibble]

oh look, another "lets kick George Best now that he is dead" post.

I'm getting truly embaressed with this message board.

A "hero" can be anyone that someone chooses to idolise and hold in high regard for whatever personal reasons they have.

Because I regard a someone a "hero" doesn't mean I expect everyone to, but some respect for the dead might be nice.

No wonder half the regulars don't come here much anymore.

[philthy]

Originally posted by bradders
roberto carlos...hero or idol?? rerportedly ploughs half of his considerable salary into charities associated with street kids of brazil

not sure if that is brave but I would guess the kids who are fed and not murdered because of his help consider him a hero

Only know what I've seen on tele about these kids lives and I imagine there are those who given the chance would top him for what he is doing. Therefore I would say he is brave and therefore qualifies him as a hero , rather than an idol. So there you are , we do agree.

Phil:)

[loverobot]

hero is different to idol

what is being described above is an idol, not a hero imho

hero worship on the otherhand.................

sorry he died but he had a good stab at life
probably wasted some of his considerable talents but twas his choice
understandably an idol to many, but am surprised at the (mis)use of the word hero

[888heaven]

oh look, another "lets kick George Best now that he is dead" post.

Sorry if ive upset you Dibble this was not intended as a dig at GB just the hype over a footballer.
This is a small peice from todays Mail by Stephen Glover and his title for his article [If GB is our hero,god help us]

[even if he had been an upstanding citizen,he was ,in the end only a footballer,and i would like to live in a country (and think i did once) in which the death of an outstanding sportsman was treated proportionately.
footballers however famous ,however brilliant ,do not define the greatness of a nation.
our truly great people are writers,scientists,artists,statesmen and warriors,whose actions or works have left us with an inspiring memorial.
they should be our real heros,and until 20 or 30 years ago they were .
since then we have taken leave of our senses.before you say 'its the modern world' let me assure you that it is'nt.
I can think of no great country -not France or Germany or Italy or Russia or even the United States- which would treat the death of a sportsman as though he were a national colossus,far above a great poet or a Nobel Prize winning scientist or an Heroic former leader.
What is with us?our media are partly to blame.News-papers including this one,cleared many pages outside their sporting sections.
television and radio went mad. we helped to make GBs death what it was.but it is difficult to believe that we were shouting into a void.
in the end GB is deified not by an over excited BBC or even a pious looking Tony Blair struggling to find the most sycophantic words,but by people who have been encouraged to look for greatness in a footballer.

Sorry Dibble but there is no law against having a different opinion from the sheep im just glad that someone else sees this from another view point.

ian

[andyb]

At what point after you stop coming here do you stop being a regular?:D

[Athelstan]

George Best was a very good footballer, possibly the most gifted to date, however he was no hero.

It is not heroic to gamble most of your income away, or to have multiple concurrent sexual partners, or to spend a great deal of your time in an alcoholic stupor - they may be classified as "fun" in certain circles but not heroic achievements. Neither is wasting the gift of a donor organ.

His off-pitch activities are not the heroic deeds that society desires youngsters to emulate.

Let his on-pitch majestic wizardry be his epitaph - everything else is supercilious un-heroic nonsense.

[Edited on 30-11-2005 by Athelstan]

[Mad Dog Bianchi]

we idolize some to these stars way too much and it goes to their head. Gary Glitter (?) is having a real bout with that in Viet Nam these days.

[Dibble]

Originally posted by 888heaven

oh look, another "lets kick George Best now that he is dead" post.

This is a small peice from todays Mail by Stephen Glover and his title for his article [If GB is our hero,god help us]

ian

That piece was actually in Sundays Mail on Sunday and to be honest i think Marting Glover is an egotistical ****er, you read that article and count how many times he states that "writers" are "heros" ???? Oh look, might that be becasue he is one ..... Writers are no different to footballers, the majority of them are mediocre at best, produce dross to fill newspapers and mags and like footballers dwell on their "minor celebrity" ... But there are a handful of writers that genuinely touch peoples lives, prooduce works of literary genius and communicate with their readers at a level that others can only dream of, these people inspire, encourage and support, they show the way, they represent something ....

Thats what George Best did as a footballer ....

If Martin Glover were a footballer he'd be a an average journeyman that maybe made the headlines once in a blue moon .....

And as for being a sheep ... please, learn some manners.

There are plenty of people out there intelligent enough to know whether they can formulate their own opinions without media intrusion or influence, so don't tarnish everyone.

[Steve M]

I was just thinking the same thing myself Dibble - what makes a writer a Hero? No matter how well you write, it's hardley an heroic deed.

Going into a burning building, bringing someone out and saving their life at the risk of your own is heroic.

[DC]

:(
Dont tend to read the papers as they are all crap. The news on telly is just the same, all one sided and portraying a view that they want you to see. Not the whole picture.

Still, I get to see the real side of life in my line of work.

I have never really been a footie fan and didnt really give a toss for Mr Best. But it is sad that he is gone because as it is when any person dies.
I bet he has done things in his life that the members of the press could only dream about!;) Good on him I say.

RIP.
DC.

[TP]

Everyone has their own interpretations of heroic.

One of our rugby club lads was fined a "Yard of Justice" for dropping the ball too much across a couple of games, a couple threw away try's!

Now the "Yard of Justice" is basically a yard glass, he had to do the yard glass in the clubhouse, in front of the club after the game.

He made it!

Now THAT is heroic!

Football is for chicks ... ;)

[guest1]

Originally posted by 888heaven...Did the world stop when DB left MUTD did the stock market collapse did the primeminister resign...

Who's DB and where's MUTD?

Originally posted by antonye
So the premiership players earn stupidly high wages, but they pay tax on their wages like the rest of us. That amount of tax (more in a week what you or I would pay in a year...) goes into the pot that pays that surgeon's wages and keeps the hospital open in the first place.


errr, no.
They may earn high wages but I believe they use the IR system much like many other high earners do..

Hero's? are what you believe in.
My Dad was a hero to me.
My Uncle was a hero to me.

[philthy]

Originally posted by philthy
Antonye ..you're right this is a bit heavy for monday morning !

I think the real issue is that the word hero has been hijacked and no longer applies as it should :-

Hero.......man admired for his brave deeds.

Is it brave to play football or be a celebrity or pop idol? I think not.

Is it brave to fight in Iraq, face up to a man with a knife or gun in the street, enter a burning building to save life, or go out in a small boat in a force 9 gale to save a life which has no connection with you whatsoever? Of course it is.
( My apologies if I've left anyone out ) These people are true heroes.

Many of the people commonly called heroes are in fact idols. There is a huge difference. There are idols and fallen idols. Both can act as role models and warnings to us all.

Phil

I don't know if it's the done thing to quote your own post here or not so I'll apologise in advance.

The people on the following site ARE hero's, and should be treated as such unlike George Best, Martin Glover etc who in my view ( But not neccesarily anyone elses ) are people who entertain others very well and should be admired and possibly worshiped by some for that skill, if they are at the pinnacle of their profession.

Can't do links but type in a search

MY HERO ELIZABETH GLASER

Humbling to read........................

[TP]

Here's my guess Alan:

DB = David Beckham
MUTD = Northern Monkey's who wear red.

:D

[antonye]

Originally posted by guest1
errr, no.
They may earn high wages but I believe they use the IR system much like many other high earners do..


You honestly believe that?

As an example of how high earners don't pay tax, did you know that Simon Cowell (he of Pop Idol/X-Factor and recording industry fame) paid over £21 Million in tax last year. Yes, over TWENTY ONE MILLION POUNDS IN TAX.

That figure is more than the profit made on all the speed cameras in the country (source: Steven Ladyman, Minister of State for Transport, interviewed on Top Gear)

This is just one man's contribution into society.

Now do you think that their contribution isn't worth it.

[guest1]

Originally posted by antonye
Originally posted by guest1
errr, no.
They may earn high wages but I believe they use the IR system much like many other high earners do..


You honestly believe that?

As an example of how high earners don't pay tax, did you know that Simon Cowell (he of Pop Idol/X-Factor and recording industry fame) paid over £21 Million in tax last year. Yes, over TWENTY ONE MILLION POUNDS IN TAX.

That figure is more than the profit made on all the speed cameras in the country (source: Steven Ladyman, Minister of State for Transport, interviewed on Top Gear)

This is just one man's contribution into society.

Now do you think that their contribution isn't worth it.

Camel and eye of needle come to mind.
I didn't say their contribution isn't worth it, I was merely stating the fact that the machinations of accountants and financial advisors see to it that the contribution form the higher earners are by no means in comparison to the tax that you or I may pay.

Is Mr Cowell your hero then antonye?

[888heaven]

Good evening Dibble


And as for being a sheep ... please, learn some manners.


My refrence to sheep was the implication that the majority of people that held GB in reverance had never met him seen him play and were'nt even born then,a bit like group hysteria.




There are plenty of people out there intelligent enough to know whether they can formulate their own opinions without media intrusion or influence, so don't tarnish everyone.


So if you have formed an opinion that does not corrospond with other members on this site you cannot post it in case of the following.


No wonder half the regulars don't come here much anymore.


Isn't that a form of censoreship, sheep are those that agree with everything others say or do just to keep face and not be unpopular in a group,so if a thread is put on here and I have a different view or opinion then I will post if Im around at the time.
Dibble
I appologise if I insinuated that you where sheepish.
no offence ment
:lol:
ian

[Davieravie]

Originally posted by TP
Everyone has their own interpretations of heroic.

One of our rugby club lads was fined a "Yard of Justice" for dropping the ball too much across a couple of games, a couple threw away try's!

Now the "Yard of Justice" is basically a yard glass, he had to do the yard glass in the clubhouse, in front of the club after the game.

He made it!




Now THAT is heroic!

Football is for chicks ... ;)



Ive done that...no probs...with LAGER....Im a HERO...shucks, it was nowt!!!

[Ains.]

Originally posted by Mad Dog Bianchi
we idolize some to these stars way too much and it goes to their head. Gary Glitter (?) is having a real bout with that in Viet Nam these days.

[philthy]

I've seen a drunken rugby player get a '' yard of justice '' off a copper with his night stick. Still makes my eyes water at the memory of it:o:o:o

[TP]

Originally posted by philthy
I've seen a drunken rugby player get a '' yard of justice '' off a copper with his night stick. Still makes my eyes water at the memory of it:o:o:o

:o

Not quite the Yard of Justice I was thinking of. I've never been able to scull that much beer!

[Davieravie]

Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by philthy
I've seen a drunken rugby player get a '' yard of justice '' off a copper with his night stick. Still makes my eyes water at the memory of it:o:o:o

:o

Not quite the Yard of Justice I was thinking of. I've never been able to scull that much beer!

Shut your eyes, think its orange squash. raise to lips, start downing, spin glass round, spill some over your face, keep drinking, spin glass some more, spill some more, keep drinking, listening to the hand claps and words of "GO,GO,GO", keep drinking....keep drinking......Finish!!!!

Take the round of applause and crys of "did you see that???"

Then...as everyone has turned away, promptly spew your guts up in a luckily placed mop bucket right next to you....Nobody saw a thing!