Greasing caliper pistons - Advice needed.

[weeksy2]

Well because of the millions of tonnes of cleaning stuff i've thrown at my calipers recently, they are pretty hard to move. Simply i think i've cleaned all the grease off LOL.

So, i've got a nice bit of Castrol Moly Grease that i use for most things. Obviously some Copper slip, but of course i won't be using that.

So do you guys use a standard moly grease, or something more specific ?

[Carbon749]

Why not use the copper slip ??? it's used on the back of the pads, pins etc etc

[dave996]

Polar Bear recommended 'Castrol red rubber grease', however Paul James (cheers man) sent me some grease through the post, If you want I can send what is left to you (more than enough)
Cheers
Dave

[weeksy2]

that would be great indeed mate.

What's the procedure then guys ? i've currently got the pads out and the pistons are almost fully extended outwards, holing in a screwdriver.

So just rub on the outside of the pistons then push back in and repeat ?

[Carbon749]

OK,

Direct quote from my grease selection chart :

Molytex EP2 - Molly grease

Performance -
High structure stabillity
Good oxidation resistance
Anti-rust properties
Resistance to water
EP Additive

Applications
Steering knuckles, joints and pins
Splined sliding yokes
Spring shackles
Pins and bushes
Turntables
Universal Joints


Copper Grease

Performance
Prevent corrosion
Good water resistance
Strong Adherence
High temp resistance
Good anti-wear
Noise reduction
Prevents fretting corrosion

Applications
Brakes
Lubrication between dis-similar metals
Anti corrosion grease

[Simon Reed]

Drop your calipers off yours forx,pads out,lines attached,into a bucket of red hot water with a washing up tablet in,or a handfull of washing up powder,leave for 10 minutes then thoroughley clean with a alloy wheel brush,or toothbrush or similar,then blow dry dry with an air line,or similar,then smear a small amount of brembo silicone caliper grease around then exposed pistons,its available from GPR,for about a fiver,do this 2/3 times a year,replace as removed,torque up,job done !

Do not use brake cleaner,as it perishes the seals,its ok on pads etc,but not the calipers !

[twpd]

I found out to my cost with my race bike that copper grease can cause lots of problems with caliper seals - they swell, it cause pistons to stick and this boiled the fluid and glazed the pads. I started using red rubber grease from Castrol and that almost totally solved the problem. I only use the copper stuff on pins now. In the case of Ducati calipers I use nothing - I just keep them clean. If your pistons are sticking badly then the chances are that the seals are fugged - they may have swelled due to all the cleaning materials you have used.

[ericthered40]

Originally posted by weeksy2
that would be great indeed mate.

What's the procedure then guys ? i've currently got the pads out and the pistons are almost fully extended outwards, holing in a screwdriver.

So just rub on the outside of the pistons then push back in and repeat ?

If you get the pistons out far enough you can rotate them to clean the crap off the face's next to the caliper :)

[Gizmo]

Agree with twpd, replace seals, clean everything, lube with brake fluid ( the seal is designed not to swell or react with that) then every so often move pistons in and out fully. Happens all the time on mountain bikes where you notice it immediately as the pad won't retract fully and you get a slight rub ( which all mountain bikers think is slowing them down), most mess around for days trying to shim the caliper but its probably the seal dry, moving the pistons in and out cures it. All that pulls the piston back in the seal. GPR should know however and if they suggest grease use that and then keep moving pistons in and out.

[weeksy2]

nice info lads. Will give it a whirl when the stuff arrives from Dave.

thanks all.

[weeksy2]

How would one replace a seal then gents ?

How much is a set of seals ?

[andyb]

Originally posted by weeksy2
How would one replace a seal then gents ?

How much is a set of seals ?

Is it a dancing seal? replacements are hard to find these days with an equity card!:lol::lol:

[madmav]

Originally posted by twpd
I found out to my cost with my race bike that copper grease can cause lots of problems with caliper seals - they swell, it cause pistons to stick and this boiled the fluid and glazed the pads. I started using red rubber grease from Castrol and that almost totally solved the problem. I only use the copper stuff on pins now. In the case of Ducati calipers I use nothing - I just keep them clean. If your pistons are sticking badly then the chances are that the seals are fugged - they may have swelled due to all the cleaning materials you have used.

Good answer!

steve when you replace the seals,make sure you clean the reces's out good and propa!

..mav

[twpd]

Never done it on a Duke but, I guess it's pretty much like any other bike.

Pump the lever enough to push the pistons nearly all the way out.
Pull the pistons out, note which caliper and position they came from, drain all fluid from the calipers and the master cylinder.
At this stage I prefer to disconnect the calipers from their lines and work on a bench.
Remove the seal and discard.
Clean the calipers inside and out thoroughly using just a rag or if you prefer brake cleaner.
Clean the pistons thoroughly, remove any roughness by gently rubbing them with scotchbrite or similar. Check them for any signs of scoring or other damage.
Make sure the calipers are completely dry and free of any dirt or residue cleaning fluid.
Wet the new seals with clean new fluid, put them back it. be careful not to get the seals twisted in their grooves.
Wet the pistons with clean new fluid and push them back into the calipers.
They should slide in quite freely - if they don't then you have the seals either twisted or in the wrong way round and possibly the piston not straight.
Don't push the pistons in all the way though as the new seal might pull them back in again when you release the pressure when bleeding the brakes - this will make it difficult to bleed them effectively.

Use new copper washers when refitting the brake lines.

I won't bother describing how to bleed brakes - there's plenty of good info out there.

[weeksy2]

Cheers Nige,

Might be a trip to the spanner man for this i think. Will try giving them a little coat tomorrow with the pistons pushed almost all the way out and repeating a few times.... if we have no joy there, i will be shooting over to see Greedy soon.

[twpd]

Steve,

It's a simple job really - well within the grasp of most people. Just be thorough and take your time.

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by twpd
Steve,

It's a simple job really - well within the grasp of most people. Just be thorough and take your time.

never actually bled brakes myself mate. Crust may be up for it, will need to chat. also need to see about buying seals

[andyb]

My advise would be with the greatest of respect, to get someone else to do it for you!
If your not sure dont even begin to mess with brakes!

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by andyb
My advise would be with the greatest of respect, to get someone else to do it for you!
If your not sure dont even begin to mess with brakes!

LOL you have respect for me ? miracles do occur after all ;)

I am not the sort of bloke to mess with things mate, if one of the lads has done it and knows the script, i'm more than happy. If not... i'll be getting Greedy on the case a week on Sat.

[raykay748R]

Weeksy2,
pretty much agree with all that 'twpd' says apart from the scotch brite part. The optimum method of cleaning the surface of the pistons is clean fluid , a lint free cloth and plenty of elbow grease. Scotchbrite, however gentle it is used, is still a fairly abrasive material, there are other textiles that are similar in look and I suggest one that is suited to Teflon pans, for example, that may be used as a last resort, but in all honesty fluid, cloth and a brisk rubbing action (orch!!!) should suffice.
I cannot overstate the importance of replacing the pistons in their original bore.
Resistance to piston replacement should be firm but not sticky. Good luck :)

[weeksy2]

Gave them a bit of a greasing this morning and they are deffo moving a fair bit more easily, so i'm happy on that side of it. Don't actually have a wheel to fit until tonight as the wife is using the car LOL. Will do that tonight and report back. Fingers crossed.

[Nattyboy]

Nice advice lads. One of the MT asked a while ago in a thread 'what makes the DSC great ' ? - well here is a prime example. Wouldnt it be great if we could archive info like this into a 'how to' section for newbies..?? A kind of 'virtual' haynes book of lies...:lol:

Nat

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by Nattyboy]

[weeksy2]

we have the search facility NAtty... but that's only good if you get the criteria correct.

Advice like this is the reason i join DSC.

[khushy]

Goodness - sometimes this board makes me cringe!!!!

I am not having a go, so please no flames, but there are things we are capable of and things we are not.

Clearly Steve (no offence meant) you are NOT capable of sorting THE most crucial part of your bike so let someone who is do it for you. Copperslip - please - if you have to ask - you havent got a clue!!!

Front brakes SHOULD NOT be screwed with, get them sorted properly, so dont be stupid, dont be tight, dont be dilluded, send em back to Brembo (GPR) and let them get them fixed for you.

Why do you think that NO Brembo repair kits are available for our bikes???

No offence, but I do wonder sometimes.

Khushy




:P:P:P

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by khushy]

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by khushy]

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by weeksy2
.

So, i've got a nice bit of Castrol Moly Grease that i use for most things. Obviously some Copper slip, but of course i won't be using that.


Khushy, which part of OBVIOUSLY i WON'T BE USING THAT did you miss in my initial post.

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by khushy
Goodness - sometimes this board makes me cringe!!!!

I am not having a go, so please no flames, but there are things we are capable of and things we are not.

Clearly Steve (no offence meant) you are NOT capable of sorting THE most crucial part of your bike so let someone who is do it for you. Copperslip - please - if you have to ask - you havent got a clue!!!

Front brakes SHOULD NOT be screwed with, get them sorted properly, so dont be stupid, dont be tight, dont be dilluded, send em back to Brembo (GPR) and let them get them fixed for you.

Why do you think that NO Brembo repair kits are available for our bikes???

No offence, but I do wonder sometimes.

Khushy




:P:P:P

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by khushy]

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by khushy]

No flames ? speak to my like a 5 year old fella and i won't be bloody haappy that's for sure.

[khushy]

and your nursery school teacher wont be very happy!!!

:frog:

Khushy

[Nattyboy]

Flippin 'eck Khushy..I know its monday morning but.....

;):o;)

Yes brakes are important..but its not a crime trying to learn..

Im sure Steve knows his limits like we all do..I tackle a few things that im not 100% about..but if im not 100% I just get a mate to check it.

For me, learning how to tackle basic servicing on my bike is all part of the 'ducati experience' (ie; fun), and this forum is one way of improring that 'learning curve'.

Weeksy - forgot to say - I'd recommend loctite for the pistons..oh and dont forget to WD40 the discs once youve finished...:lol:

Nat

[FiscusFish]

Originally posted by khushy
....
Why do you think that NO Brembo repair kits are available for our bikes???

.....


Khushy

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by khushy]

'Cos Brembo realise there's a hell of a lot of money to be made on replacement/reconditioned calipers...?

Don't get me wrong, if you're not up to sorting brakes then it's not something you should be messing with but it's not rocket science..

If I can walk into any Japanese dealer and buy replcement seals/parts for my calipers then why shouldn't I be able to for my Ducati? It's certainly not 'cos Brembo technology is so far in advance of the stuff the Japanese are knocking out.

Perhaps it's a litigation thing, but then the Japanese don't seem to have a problem with that so p'raps money...?

Darren

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by khushy
and your nursery school teacher wont be very happy!!!

:frog:

Khushy

you're giving me stick and used the word

'dilluded' come on... have a word with yourself :biaggi:

[weeksy2]

Lets establish one thing here .... I'm not going to get on the bike tonight, shoot outside and pin it to 160mph down to the roundabout and pray they work....

Chrsit... i'm not dense you know.

Did you not read the thread where i'm asking mate who knows this stuff to guide me...

you were not about last night either when i texted my mechanic to get a price for labour from him for fitting a kit.....

[Nattyboy]

Chrsit... i'm not dense you know...

-- Get out of town... :lol:

[dave996]

Weeksy do you still want the grease?

[weeksy2]

yeah please buddy... still don't know if my solution will work.

[twpd]

Originally posted by FiscusFish
'Cos Brembo realise there's a hell of a lot of money to be made on replacement/reconditioned calipers...?

Don't get me wrong, if you're not up to sorting brakes then it's not something you should be messing with but it's not rocket science..

If I can walk into any Japanese dealer and buy replcement seals/parts for my calipers then why shouldn't I be able to for my Ducati? It's certainly not 'cos Brembo technology is so far in advance of the stuff the Japanese are knocking out.

Perhaps it's a litigation thing, but then the Japanese don't seem to have a problem with that so p'raps money...?

Darren

Bang on. It's about money.

[andyb]

160..........:lol::lol:

[Simon Reed]

Money !!!!,is it f**k about money !,it's about your life !!!c,mon guys,your're missing the point,what khush is saying is,that it looks like steve,may be using the wrong approach,with materials/technique, etc,plus,do you really,want to be messing around with brakes,NO !,the reason GPR don't supply service kits,is for that very reason,they arn't D.I.Y fitment !

So get a proffesional to do it,it'll cost you around £100 to get GPR to do it right !

I can't believe,some of the comments made on this board ,with regard to money,and costs etc,you're running a Ducati for f**ksake !!,if you can't afford to run/maintain one correctley,then buy a jap 600 !

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by Simon Reed]

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by Simon Reed]

[weeksy2]

woooah there..... Where did i say i was using the wrong stuff, i came on and asked what is the correct grease/lube to use.... i stated what i had, but not that i would use it at all.


I agree that brakes are fairly important and wouldn't mess with them beyond my skills (or lack thereof).

What's the number for GPR please getns..... not saying i'm going to use them, but i like to have options.

[andyb]

Why not buy and upgrade to a pair of 4 pad 4 pot jobbies?:D

Even me little vfr 400 has them on now!

[Simon Reed]

GPR 01327 855300,ask to speak to Steve Tuckey,he's the guy who does all the servicing !

[weeksy2]

don't have the spare cash lying round at the moment mate. Just bought new wheels, a 2nd rear stand, and need an alarm fitting this month. Add that onto the car service and MOT... and the holiday to Tunisia in less than 2 weeks


LOL just can't.

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by Simon Reed
GPR 01327 855300,ask to speak to Steve Tuckey,he's the guy who does all the servicing !

thanks mate.

[Simon Reed]

I've just sold mi telly to but a video !

:sing:

[khushy]

:lol:

[twpd]

I reckon given some of the near hysterical reactions here to servicing one's brakes, I reckon we all ought to get "experts" to lubricate and adjust our chains too. Or how about changing light bulbs? Both equally important when it comes to safety. :puzzled:

[Harv748]

Originally posted by Nattyboy
Wouldnt it be great if we could archive info like this into a 'how to' section for newbies..?? A kind of 'virtual' haynes book of lies...:lol:

Nat

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by Nattyboy]

Mate...I've been dropping a hint at this kind of thing for the last few years and it seems to just never happen.

I know Iconic was working on it, and then had his computer go down on him (oher missus):lol:

I then volunteered to go throuigh ALL of the techinical thread myself and pull out/list all that could be placed in a technical archive...but that seems to have fallen on deaf ears???

Surely not that difficult to achieve, time consuming to get it of the ground , yes...but impossible...no.

Other boards I use have this 'technical archive section' and its invaluable.

[weeksy2]

ok, calipers and MC are off to MotoSPort@Greedys this weekend to be stripped and sorted out.

Thanks for all the advice guys, even the stuff i didn't like :)

[desmojen]

Originally posted by andyb
Why not buy and upgrade to a pair of 4 pad 4 pot jobbies?:D

Even me little vfr 400 has them on now!


'Kin 'ell mate, they must be sharp! I nearly looped mine the first time I rode it braking into Edwinas, and that was on standard brakes! :lol:

[andyb]

Remember steve....Grease is the word!

[madmav]

Originally posted by Simon Reed
Money !!!!,is it f**k about money !,it's about your life !!!with regard to money,and costs etc,you're running a Ducati for f**ksake !!,if you can't afford to run/maintain one correctley,then buy a jap 600 !

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by Simon Reed]

[Edited on 20-2-2006 by Simon Reed]

Why? Don't jap bikes need maintenace:smug:

[Simon Reed]

Mav,you know,as i do they all need maintainance,i was
using the term loosly,as an example,to try and get it across to the people who don't,spend,and maintain,correctley !,whome may potentially cut corners,to there peril !

[weeksy2]

Where do we draw the line the Simon ? 3 years ago i couldn't change a fuel pump, these days i could do it in seconds.....

Same with a front wheel ? or an exhaust even a few weeks back..

What's right and wrong ? everything you do to a bike in a spanner sense has a modicum of danger.... But does that mean we all do nothing ?? No, of course not.

You asses what needs doing. And go from there.

I had the simple choice with mine. Find out the possible causes, then try a simple and safe fix (greasing pistons, without breaking seals) and then if not, you move on to someone else to show or do for you.

[dave996]

Steve, it's in the post;)

To add to your point I had never done anything major 3 months ago, now I have stripped my bike down, sent the frame away and totally rebuilt it.

With a little confidence a haynes manual and a lot of advice from people on this site you can do almost anything.

[khushy]

You do what you feel comfortable doing - my point was that there are a few people here who undertake safety critical tasks with a huge amount of ineptitude!!!

This morning Steve - the way you were describing your actions - made you sound totally inept! :lol:

There are things you "have a go at" and their are things that you dont touch - its simple.

As for changing bulbs - well - lets not go there!!!

Khushy

:frog:

[weeksy2]

Which part sounded inept mate ?

i am actually fairly inept.... but didn't think i sounded it on this one. :)

[khushy]

shows how inept you bloody are - you dont even know which bit I am on about!

:puzzled:

Khushy

:frog:

[weeksy2]

As far as i could see, you criticised me for using Copperlsip... which i already stated i wasn't....

you've lost me oh mr spannergod.

[khushy]

its called humour!!!

:D
:cool:
:o
:P
:biaggi:
:borg:
:frog:
:ninja:
:barfy:
:smug:
:yawn:
:sing:
:bouncy:
:eureka:
:flame:
:rolleye:

hmmmmm spannergod - I like that!!!

[weeksy2]

Damn, that's usually one of my strongest parts :(

[twpd]

Steve isn't inept. He didn't possess the knowledge. He asked for info, he got replies, he made an informed choice. There's nothing inept about - quite the contrary really. He knows his limitations.

[twpd]

Originally posted by raykay748R
Weeksy2,
pretty much agree with all that 'twpd' says apart from the scotch brite part. The optimum method of cleaning the surface of the pistons is clean fluid , a lint free cloth and plenty of elbow grease. Scotchbrite, however gentle it is used, is still a fairly abrasive material

Well there's a degree of common sense when using Scotchbrite. You can get it in varying degrees of roughness. I use it to remove grime and rubber residue in conjunction with something like WD40 but, I certainly wouldn't recommend scrubbing away at the pistons with it!

[twpd]

I never realised that seal kits weren't available for Brembo calipers. If that's the case then what are we supposed to do when the seals fail as they will do eventually?

It seems rather daft when I can get seal kits for any number of other bikes. and I don't have trouble getting seals for Brembo calipers on MZ's.

[Paul James]

Originally posted by twpd
I found out to my cost with my race bike that copper grease can cause lots of problems with caliper seals - they swell, it cause pistons to stick and this boiled the fluid and glazed the pads. I started using red rubber grease from Castrol and that almost totally solved the problem. I only use the copper stuff on pins now. In the case of Ducati calipers I use nothing - I just keep them clean. If your pistons are sticking badly then the chances are that the seals are fugged - they may have swelled due to all the cleaning materials you have used.

Maybe that's why they make proper grease for brake seals ? :D