continued 999 speculation in MCN

[gossa]

Am I the only one getting irate at the continued use of a cut and paste mock up replacement of the 999 in MCN?

Ducati bosses have said they are committed to the current design and specifically said the MCN story was rubbish. Yes they might be working on a bigger capacity motor but a backwards step to 916 headlights and swingarm as reported in MCN has been discounted.

The 999 is ahead of the market in terms of design (as was the 916) but i'm getting pi$$ed off with my bike being potentially devalued by tabloid speculation.

Yes, the 916 was iconic but as with all things, innovation moves forward.

Why are Ducati UK advertising there and why don't they confront MCN and get them to print facts not bollox?

[GsxrAge]

I don't think the 999 replacement will look anything like the 999 or the 916 shape.

I just hope they come up with a new Iconic design !

Age

[desmobob]

According to the Ducati media section of their website their most annoyed at the MCN 'mock-up' and assure that they haven't even began finalising any proposed designs.

Interestingly in a bike trader magazine I read at my mates shop yesterday, (I think it's Motorcycle Trader) - they have an interview with the main director at Ducati. They're currently in the process of beginning a major restructuring programme which should lead them into the black by 2008, making a loss in 2007. Included in the major shake-up is the removal of most of the current models including the 999-(all models including the Xerox 'R'), 749-(all models) and many more. He continues to say they've been damaged by selling the lower specification 749 and 999 models. This will result in them regaining their status by selling only 'high end' machinery such as the Moto GP replica model.

:puzzled:

[Edited on 25-5-2006 by desmobob]

[yeti]

Originally posted by gossa I'm getting pi$$ed off with my bike being potentially devalued by tabloid speculation.

S'not only tabloid speculation. I was offered an 04 999R Fila rep with 500 genuine on it for £8k a couple of weeks ago. Try to get a 998R for that money and you'll be struggling. I'm afraid the punters have voted with their wallets on this one.

[Ducnow]

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/Ducati%20Superbike%20V2r.JPG

:burn:

[twpd]

Originally posted by desmobob
his will result in them regaining their status by selling only 'high end' machinery such as the Moto GP replica model.

:puzzled:

[Edited on 25-5-2006 by desmobob]

Thereby restricting the sales of their models to only the wealthiest of people. They just don't get it, do they? Regaining status? Status as expensive trinkets for only the wealthiest of people. Honda got rich selling lots of C50's and C90's. Not RC30's.

[desmobob]

Thereby restricting the sales of their models to only the wealthiest of people. They just don't get it, do they? Regaining status? Status as expensive trinkets for only the wealthiest of people. Honda got rich selling lots of C50's and C90's. Not RC30's.

But nobody ever wanted to by a Honda because of the amazing C90's history, but they do when they see a modern blade, RC30 etc. It's a fickle world we live in unfortuantely:rolleye:

[Edited on 25-5-2006 by desmobob]

[desmobob]

S'not only tabloid speculation. I was offered an 04 999R Fila rep with 500 genuine on it for £8k a couple of weeks ago. Try to get a 998R for that money and you'll be struggling. I'm afraid the punters have voted with their wallets on this one.
That wasn't the Fila Cat D by any chance was it ?
I recently can remember 2 incidents of very cheep 999R's going on either eBay and Biketrader and after investigation found one to be a CAT-D and the other (Hodgson signed apparently) - to be a .... fake Fila rep model.
I think fake 999R's and the like have done Ducati no favours either.
I know of equal quantities of people that prefer the 999 shape to the 916, but they prefer the 999 shape perhaps for it's mechanical additions that fix many 'yet to be fixed' issues that were waiting for the 'next big release' that the 999 did fix.
I own a 916 and a 999 and if they were both worth the same money - wise, I'd let the 916 shape go purely because it looks older.

[twpd]

It's the C50's and C90's that allow Honda to make RC30's. Restricting the appeal of your market and consigning yourself to an ever smaller niche is suicide. I'm a Ducati loyalist, I've spent the best part of £40k on buying the bikes themselves but, no longer will I buy a new Ducati because it is overpriced, it doesn't offer enough for the big price tag and they depreciate too quickly - disasterously so thanks to Ducati marketing tactics.

[GsxrAge]

They say they are getting rid of all their entry models except the monster 695 or what ever it is now !

So they will be loosing most of their loyal Customers by putting the bulk of their bikes in a price range that most Ducati owners can't afford ME being one!

Hmmm Those Suzuki's do look bloody nice and I can afford a new one !!

Wake up Ducati and smell the coffee !!!

Age

[IainMac]

Originally posted by desmobob
they've been damaged by selling the lower specification 749 and 999 models. This will result in them regaining their status by selling only 'high end' machinery such as the Moto GP replica model.

:puzzled:

[Edited on 25-5-2006 by desmobob]

The low end models the ducati blurb refferred to wasnt the normal superbike range it was the dark models (no 999 dark) and low end monster/(potentially multistrada) bikes. The strategy was to get the superbike range selling and add an upper layer motogp replica. The V-Twin superbike will continue to evolve as it always has since the 1st 851. If you could afford a superbike now then I suspect its not going to be much different and it will be perhaps more affordable over the next couple of years.
Incidently, not that I'm saying there cheap but I think the Biposto model of each full capacity superbike range (851-888,916-998,999 over the years) has never been cheaper and its not just relative its price on the shop floor. In fact I'm paying less now for a new un than I did for a 916! wayback when and that wasnt quite new!!!! Bargin!! :P
The grass is always greener and becareful what u wish for and all that

[999TREV]

Guys, guys
As Mr Barry Sheen once said.
''MCN never let the facts get in the way of a story''.
I'm holding on to my 999 base model becouse it makes me smile, if Ducati cut it from there range i have a bike that no one else has around here (having said that i do live on the east coast.) Could have had any litre bike i fancied at the time but I know i would only want to sell it in 6 months time.

[desmobob]

In some ways part of the appeal of owning a Ducati is because I know I've bought into a brand that make an incredibly expensive model that’s winning races. I wouldn't buy a Hysoung bike from China because although mechanically sound, (and have longer history than most Japanese manufacturers), don't have anything that makes their badge... that bit special. Ferrari make cars that are extremely expensive, but split the parts down to their cost equivalent and they certainly aren't as expensive as the cost of the car as a whole. They don't depreciate mainly because they're not so readily available, (some models you have to be offered to buy). If Ducati try to be the motorcycle equivalent of Ferrari they need to stop making so many limited edition models, otherwise they're simply not limited.
They need to find a careful balance between making quality affordable and reliable bikes, (something the Japanese are very good at) - as well as super fast, beautiful looking and amazing handling limited edition specials. :bouncy:


[Edited on 25-5-2006 by desmobob]

[bolds]

Originally posted by yeti
Originally posted by gossa I'm getting pi$$ed off with my bike being potentially devalued by tabloid speculation.

S'not only tabloid speculation. I was offered an 04 999R Fila rep with 500 genuine on it for £8k a couple of weeks ago. Try to get a 998R for that money and you'll be struggling. I'm afraid the punters have voted with their wallets on this one.


Im sure you could get a cat"D" 998R for that sort of money as well :) If you were into vintage stuff that is

[Gizmo]

i don't think this is MCN's fault, its Ducati's inability to accept that the way they market product and released info to the press has not adapted to reflect the changes the internet has brought and the need for printed magazines to beat the websites with stories. |The new bike must be past the concept stage , taking a critical path back from a November launch in Milan means that given a "normal"lead time of 60 -90 days for components, time to run a small preproduction batch, manufacturing moulds for fairings and other unique parts and testing it all works, the design has to be somewhere near final now. Compare the route Ducati take to a succesful European brand like Triumph which is increasing sales , they allow limited press publication of the prototyping and testing of new models in the likes of MCN, it doesn't harm sales as the dealers and customers then know what is coming not speculating on it. I don't understand why Ducati don't releave visuals on concepts onto their own website to stop the speculation other than thinking they'll lose the impact from its launch, not much use if you've lost 5 month sales and upset dealers and customers in the process.

[desmobob]

I wish Ducati would read this little lot.:lol:

[749er]

Originally posted by AGE996

Hmmm Those Suzuki's do look bloody nice and I can afford a new one !!

Wake up Ducati and smell the coffee !!!

Age

I think thats a bit harsh. True the japanese bikes have excellent reliability and strong engines but the rest of it leaves a lot to be desired. Compare any of the following components between a 749/999 and their Japanese equivalent and you can see why a Duke costs more. I also have a ZX6R so I do know what i am talking about here

Head stock - Ducatis is a work of art, milled form a billet
Marchinesi alloys, make the Japanese ones look really poor
Brembo brakes
Fuel Filler - Ducati is die cast, Japs one are pressed steel
Side Stand -need I say more?
Access to an immense OEM upgrade parts catalogue - needs to be paid for somehow.

True, some of the above are cosmetic, but its all part of the Ducati appeal and brand, and it all costs. If all you want is the biggest bang for you buck, then Jap bikes are great, Ducati offers quite a bit more, like style, character, innovation......

Besides, Britney rides one, ;););)

[Edited on 26-5-2006 by 749er]

[Edited on 26-5-2006 by 749er]

[gossa]

Looking at the front of the new GP road bike (providing MCN didn't photoshop that as well!) I think Ducati are commited to a similar design shape as the 999.

I would disagree that they are overpriced, you are getting exactly what you pay for. If Ducati moved production to Asia tomorrow then they would be better value (and better quality/more reliable) but I doubt any of us would want that do we?

[tmaccabee]

In response to Desmobob - of course we read the more interesting posts from time to time!

Sometimes I agree with the postings, sometimes not, but it does go towards a level of being informed about what you guys and gals are thinking.

Tim

[chris.p]

Originally posted by Tim Maccabee
In response to Desmobob - of course we read the more interesting posts from time to time!

Sometimes I agree with the postings, sometimes not, but it does go towards a level of being informed about what you guys and gals are thinking.

Tim


:) Them`s upstairs do listen or should I say read what us as the buying public have to say, nice one.
Mind you I still have not emailed Mr Maccabee about the 748/9** series of bikes re the openers & closers, still think something should be done about them.

Chris.:burn:

[desmobob]

Wow ! A real Ducati *person* reading this here text :bouncy:
I agree with 'gossa' - Ducati wouldn't have devised the 999 shape without genuine reason. Many hours spent working on aerodynamics to allow the bike to flow thru the air as much as direct in cool air wouldn't have been designed solely by an artist.
Look at the likes of the GSXR K6 range, personally I think they look quite ugly, but they work very well. It must be real hard to allow the look of a bike not overwhelm it's functional design. The Harrier was always a weird looking H.O.T.O.L craft that the American Navy made look even more strange , but theirs had added functionality and was much-o faster.



[Edited on 26-5-2006 by desmobob]

[gossa]

So if you're reading Tim, and we appreciate that you are, why don't put pressure on MCN to stop running that mock up that is sending the wrong message to every sector of the market including the trade, existing and potential owners? I feel that you guys are not communicating the bologna message to the uk media sufficiently . the uk is obsssed with numbers,horsepower verses weight verses cost. You can't put a number on the feeling, an emotion and that is what riding a ducati is all about. If the mock ups do not give a fair representation of the direction you're gong, set the record straight.

[gossa]

sorry for the crap punctuation, i'm on my pda mobile with that rubbish little stylus!

[gossa]

So if you're reading Tim, and we appreciate that you are, why don't put pressure on MCN to stop running that mock up that is sending the wrong message to every sector of the market including the trade, existing and potential owners? I feel that you guys are not communicating the bologna message to the uk media sufficiently . the uk is obsssed with numbers,horsepower verses weight verses cost. You can't put a number on the feeling, an emotion and that is what riding a ducati is all about. If the mock ups do not give a fair representation of the direction you're gong, set the record straight.

[749er]

there is no way that MCN mock up will be built by Ducati like that. Ducati has a reputation as being a true design house, despite what some feel about the 749/999. Design wise it is consistent, radical and innovative.

That mock up is at best a b*stardisation of organic and angular design philosophies. It has no consistancy, there is no new concept behind it, and worst of all it would be a capitulation. To call it a pastiche would be overgenerous. At least a pastiche pays homage to a previous design icon in a somewhat less comical way. I cant use the word I would like to use as it would probably offend.

If anyone at MCN thinks that will be built then they have got all their design knowledge from Changing Rooms. On the plus side they maybe handy with a paint brush and offer to pop over and finish my decorating

I can only guess that Ducati feel its beneath them to comment and that nothing would be gained by commenting. Who needs enemies in the press?

[Edited on 27-5-2006 by 749er]

[IainMac]

here here!
From my view of the developement of the sports bike ranges ducati produce, there are always step changes , ie the SS range underwent a significant style change with the SSie even though the core components didnt change that much . The Next superbike whatever it looks like wont or at least shoudn't be a re-hash of pervious versions be 888,916 999 etc i hope it will be unique in its own right. That way the models past and present stand on thier own merits. and if you want the sexy looks of the 916 or blunt racer of the 888 or angular 999 you can pick one that suites your preference.

Personally if I had the means to colect ducatis I'd have one of the 888 models to go with my now owned 999.
I'd have to miss out the 916 range as having had a 916 I'd could only own one now as an objectd'art cos I just dont fit them and I need to ride what I own not just look at but these are just my prefernces. Plus Id have to have a yellow 900superlight too. i can but dream. cant i?

[Rod]

i don't think this is MCN's fault, its Ducati's inability to accept that the way they market product and released info to the press has not adapted to reflect the changes the internet has brought and the need for printed magazines to beat the websites with stories. |The new bike must be past the concept stage , taking a critical path back from a November launch in Milan means that given a "normal"lead time of 60 -90 days for components, time to run a small preproduction batch, manufacturing moulds for fairings and other unique parts and testing it all works, the design has to be somewhere near final now. Compare the route Ducati take to a succesful European brand like Triumph which is increasing sales , they allow limited press publication of the prototyping and testing of new models in the likes of MCN, it doesn't harm sales as the dealers and customers then know what is coming not speculating on it. I don't understand why Ducati don't releave visuals on concepts onto their own website to stop the speculation other than thinking they'll lose the impact from its launch, not much use if you've lost 5 month sales and upset dealers and customers in the process.

I'm with you on that one. The new 1198/S/R bike must be close to or nearing completion in terms of the design. November is not that far away and as you say, tooling up, even for preproduction is a time consuming process, so we have to conclude that the bike is, bar a few last minute changes due to test results and costs, almost complete. I was not entirely convinced by the spy shots in the Italian "MotoSprint" magazine of the bike circling Mugello, as even with the black gaffa tape all over the fairing panels, it was at best a test mule for the mechanical components and if you can "let your guard down" quite that publically, it smacks of nothing short of a red herring visually to keep the press guessing. I like the idea of Ducati issuing some pre production concept sketches though. They would do well to get the feedback before they launch the new bike (as with the HyperMotard) before they commit commercial suicide and unveil the unthinkable (a rehashed 999). Let's hope thats not the case and that Alan Jenkins or the like has a hand in it's design as the Demosedici he penned is just gorgeous and leagues ahead of Terblanches recent abominations. If you disagree with that, then the post 999 introduction era which heralded poor sales figures, ought to back up my last statement.

[Rod]

Not seen this one in the cluster released by "MotoSprint" magazine, so here it is from another angle and somewhat better quality.

[sbwells]

I'm with you on that one. The new 1198/S/R bike must be close to or nearing completion in terms of the design. November is not that far away and as you say, tooling up, even for preproduction is a time consuming process, so we have to conclude that the bike is, bar a few last minute changes due to test results and costs, almost complete. I was not entirely convinced by the spy shots in the Italian "MotoSprint" magazine of the bike circling Mugello, as even with the black gaffa tape all over the fairing panels, it was at best a test mule for the mechanical components and if you can "let your guard down" quite that publically, it smacks of nothing short of a red herring visually to keep the press guessing. I like the idea of Ducati issuing some pre production concept sketches though. They would do well to get the feedback before they launch the new bike (as with the HyperMotard) before they commit commercial suicide and unveil the unthinkable (a rehashed 999). Let's hope thats not the case and that Alan Jenkins or the like has a hand in it's design as the Demosedici he penned is just gorgeous and leagues ahead of Terblanches recent abominations. If you disagree with that, then the post 999 introduction era which heralded poor sales figures, ought to back up my last statement.

Yeap......Like your thinking mate

[phil_h]

Personally, I think anyone would give them a better design than any of Terblanche's efforts for them.
They do seem to oscillate between great visual designs and complete dogs tho ... think back to the 860-series-dogs sandwiched between the bevel-SS and the Darmah, the F1 series then the Paso-dogs followed by the carby-belt-SS designs.
Here's hoping !

[Gizmo]

Personally, I think anyone would give them a better design than any of Terblanche's efforts for them.


But he designed the supermono, influenced the 916 and has created the best real world road bikes Ducati have made in the 999 and multistrada and ST3/4 plus did the sport classics. he changed the way we think about bikes making them smaller, thinner and more shaped. And all those projects retained the same basic engine/chassis configuration he was stuck with given the limits that must be imposed on real development. An amazing job in my book.

I've said this before but he is as influential as Jonathon Ives is at Apple and Ducati won't find a successor easily.

[chillo]

Something ducati need to do is actually move away from mass produced bikes thrown together like a meccano kit!
The 999 is actually a very good bike, not everyone likes change tho:rolleyes:
I didnt pay £20k for a bike with a motor that is 'built' in under an hour!:o
(eg. Cam timing 8deg out? wtf?:mad: )
I want a bike that has been built properly and would be happy to pay for that.
Unfortunately after also getting shafted with the depreciation on my 999r i am not confident in going forward with a Sedici! (its £10k too much IMHO) Even if it looks like its being built like an R should be!

[keefer]

its going to be single sided.
other than that I don't mind what they do.
I think the price depreciation chillo is talking about has happened because there is no difficulty in getting hold of the 999R model.
but as he said if its going to be expensive it has to be built well.
all I hope is that it looks good and goes better.
I think the back end may resemble the Guzzi prototype that was floating around a while back.
Still not long to wait now ?
but it will be single sided ;)

[Foxy]

I would be interested to know if they put any of there concepts in front of the people who buy Ducati's.

Tim - if you're reading perhaps you could comment ?

IMO the latest 999r looks pretty good, the swingarm is better proportioned than the original design and the high spec components keep you attention away from some of the awkward areas of the design.

When I first saw the original 999 I couldn't believe it escaped from the factory with some of the design irregularities.

I am planning to buy a bike next year, if the new Duke is not my cup of tea I'll buy an RS250 Honda for a track bike and wait another 5 years .....

I am really looking forward to see what is delivered !

[UKRR]

Thats a shame.....single sided is a compromise from an engineering and racing standpoint...just a sop to the people who thought the 999 was ugly.
Single sided swinging arms were great for RVF racers looking to win the TT or Suzuka 8 hours where seconds saved in the pits could mean the difference between winning and losing. Ducati's don't tend to do well in longer distance races so the advantage of a single sider is limited.
Ducati always say that Racing defines their design....in this case it will not (assuming that the arm is single sided of course).

[keefer]

hmmm
not sure its the major limiting factor in wining a championship that some make out.
rigidity is not always the solution. take the Roberts bike that has had bits taken out of its chassis to make it more flexible. its not doing bad.
and they have moved there shock mounting back to something from 500 days.
it only got beat by one factory Honda at the weekend.
but nether the less going single sided is to appease the masses who just think it looks the nuts. which it does :rolleyes:

[Nick Pavey]

When I first saw the original 999 I couldn't believe it escaped from the factory with some of the design irregularities.



What do you mean by this mate? Not questioning you,just not sure what you mean?

:)

[UKRR]

Honda ditched the single sider in WSB on RC45 as it was of no benefit....they are heavier than normal swinging arm and distort in a way which does not help handling....flex is one thing.....having your rear wheel out of line is another

[Foxy]

No problem, I just felt that certain items, like the fuel tank look slightly small in relation to other parts of the bike. Another example was the original swingarm, which although fit for purpose looked a little lightweight and out of place.
It may sound like I'm being over critical, but for a premium product and the most recognisable brand in motorcycling it does look like different people designed different parts of the 999.

Kind of "form coming from function".

I'm really looking forward to the next model, I can't help feeling it might be a compromise.

[twpd]

[QUOTE=Foxy]No problem, I just felt that certain items, like the fuel tank look slightly small in relation to other parts of the bike. Another example was the original swingarm, which although fit for purpose looked a little lightweight and out of place.
It may sound like I'm being over critical, but for a premium product and the most recognisable brand in motorcycling it does look like different people designed different parts of the 999.
QUOTE]

It looks like it was "designed" by a council committee. The 748/916 looks like it was designed by someone who loves bikes.

[david.hicks]

It looks like it was "designed" by a council committee. The 748/916 looks like it was designed by someone who loves bikes.

C'mon man, get off the bl**dy fence :lol:

[Gizmo]

It looks like it was "designed" by a council committee. The 748/916 looks like it was designed by someone who loves bikes.

wrong way round I'm afraid, the 916 was designed by a CRC design team consisting of Tamburini, Terblanche and Sergio Robbiano plus others. Tamburini nicked the best bits from bikes like the Honda NR750 and added Terblanche's waisted styling, tank shape etc from the supermono. That supermono look created by Terblanche took Ducati from big boxy front ends into the sleek shape most now consider to be a Ducati.

With the 999 Terblanche was allowed to do his own thing hence the more individualistic look of it.

[Foxy]

Well perhaps he has split personalities : ) (Terblanche)

The net result to me is that the 999 is less than the sum of it's parts ...

....incoming !!

[phil_h]

No problem, I just felt that certain items, like the fuel tank look slightly small in relation to other parts of the bike. Another example was the original swingarm, which although fit for purpose looked a little lightweight and out of place.
It may sound like I'm being over critical, but for a premium product and the most recognisable brand in motorcycling it does look like different people designed different parts of the 999.

Kind of "form coming from function".

I'm really looking forward to the next model, I can't help feeling it might be a compromise.

Hmmm ... most big companies put design-sub-teams on bits of projects and them put them all together later ... all the japs do for sure, and its a certain way of giving the engineer enough time to concentrate on their own problems in their own area. If you have too small a design team, or let one person rule, you get uneven quality every time, as the rose-tinted glasses, or time-pressure take over.
Too big a team and you definitely get bland-bland-bland tho.

And engineering is the art of compromise actually.
Thats why good engineering is often great art.

[iang]

Ok I may be biased with me owning a 749R but myself and loads of other bikers I know think that my bike looks stunning and wherever we go there is always a crowd looking at my bike, even old couples in the small village tea rooms so it cannot be that bad.

Like every bike ever made there are parts that some people do not like but this applies to every bike even the latest japanese models.

Personnaly I thought the single sided swinging arm looked brilliant and the first 749/999 version was awful but the new versions are very nice, but even if the new model has got a single sided swinging arm could any one of us really notice any difference in rigidity ???

I think that the only reason the 749/999 has not hit it off with some people is because the 748/916 etc was such an icon which was always going to be a hard act to follow.

I hope the new model is not 'too' nice as I would be gutted to see my bike go especially when I could not afford the top of the range or R model.

[doogalman]

The single sider worked ok on the 998 1/2 of Chili. When the 999 was not handling to well ( in wsb, bsb, and ama). Who cares if it's a compromize, if thats the argument lets talk about the problems with telescopic forks. Every manufacturer knows it is a compromize. But we all ride them how best WE can, not to the limit of the machine!

[andyb]

The single sider worked ok on the 998 1/2 of Chili. When the 999 was not handling to well ( in wsb, bsb, and ama). Who cares if it's a compromize, if thats the argument lets talk about the problems with telescopic forks. Every manufacturer knows it is a compromize. But we all ride them how best WE can, not to the limit of the machine!

When it wasnt working well............was then when it won WSB in 2003 or when it won i 2004?

[doogalman]

The majority if teams were having handling problems . Chili just proved that a out of date design can still compete if the power output is there. I'm sure any modern bike can still have a bit of a dice with an RC30, RC45, 916etc. Which bike holds the official record around the Nordschleife? I know someone who is blistering around there on an 05 R1. Yet he can not stay with an RC30 . So what if it's not the chosen route by the masses. Why shouldn't a manufacturer also consider the aesthetics (can anyone genuinly say the single sider didn't look good on the 916 series), isn't that why most of us buy what we want to.

[Gizmo]

And engineering is the art of compromise actually.
Thats why good engineering is often great art.
Hence my quote on the limitations Terblanche worked around on the 999, same engine and basic layouts yet has to look new. Compromised but still good design.


Well perhaps he has split personalities : ) (Terblanche)

The net result to me is that the 999 is less than the sum of it's parts ...

....incoming !!
each to their own but i prefer up to date design and i don't see the 999 as being an inferior road bike to a 916 far from it, it takes those same parts and gives a better performing bike.



The single sider worked ok on the 998 1/2 of Chili. When the 999 was not handling to well ( in wsb, bsb, and ama). Who cares if it's a compromize, if thats the argument lets talk about the problems with telescopic forks. Every manufacturer knows it is a compromize. But we all ride them how best WE can, not to the limit of the machine!

A singlesider might have worked years ago but now there would be a weight penalty, horsepower and tyre grip have moved on. I'm sure moto gp teams would use an alternative to the telescopic fork if a viable alternative existed, budget isn't a consideration all that matters is performance why don't they do it ?

[doogalman]

I'm sure moto gp teams would use an alternative to the telescopic fork if a viable alternative existed,

Better the devil they know.

[Gizmo]

Better the devil they know.

nope, the only thing they are bothered about is winning, if a better system existed they would try it and use it. I'd bet even the bm moto gp bike has conventional forks.

there are no advantages in normal use for singlesiders, its fashion and old hat now, ducati need to look at pushing the performance envelope to compete with the lighter, more hp competition not build their superbikes as fashion items, they can leave that till they do a sport classic 916, it can only be a matter of a few years away given the age of its design :D

[wilf]

...ducati need to look at pushing the performance envelope to compete with the lighter, more hp competition not build their superbikes as fashion items, they can leave that till they do a sport classic 916, it can only be a matter of a few years away given the age of its design :D

didnt they do that with the 999???? but it was the looks that everyone talked about, not the performance.

sad but true.

[KeefyB]

nope, the only thing they are bothered about is winning, if a better system existed they would try it and use it. I'd bet even the bm moto gp bike has conventional forks.

there are no advantages in normal use for singlesiders, its fashion and old hat now, ducati need to look at pushing the performance envelope to compete with the lighter, more hp competition not build their superbikes as fashion items, they can leave that till they do a sport classic 916, it can only be a matter of a few years away given the age of its design :D
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Brilliant,post of the day!

[doogalman]

So would you want to ride an ugly bike as looks are unimportant????

[Gizmo]

didnt they do that with the 999???? but it was the looks that everyone talked about, not the performance.

sad but true.

the looks did get talked about but at the time the performance wasn't there, the racers didn't accept it and this reflected on a great road bike. its still short on numbers on a gixxer, R1 ,blade or MV which needs addressing but going backwards isn't going to help that. ducati need innovative design matched with that performance .

[Gizmo]

So would you want to ride an ugly bike as looks are unimportant????

looks are important but as i prefer a 999 in looks to a 998 etc I'm happy to ride one. i had the choice and went for it as it is a better road bike and i like its looks.

oh i also have a multistrada which isn't the prettiest of things and yes, i'm happy to ride that even though it has been hit with an ugly stick :D

[twpd]

wrong way round I'm afraid, the 916 was designed by a CRC design team consisting of Tamburini, Terblanche and Sergio Robbiano plus others. Tamburini nicked the best bits from bikes like the Honda NR750 and added Terblanche's waisted styling, tank shape etc from the supermono. That supermono look created by Terblanche took Ducati from big boxy front ends into the sleek shape most now consider to be a Ducati.

With the 999 Terblanche was allowed to do his own thing hence the more individualistic look of it.


You completely missed the point there Gizmo. I am not interested in who designed what, where and when. The point I am making is that the 999 series is downright ugly. It's mis-matched, it looks unfinished, it looks messy (the subrame/frame/swingarm area is hideous), it's not at all elegant. The 916 series is universally applauded as the most beautiful bike design of all time, when it came out people said "WOW". 13 years on people still say "WOW".

OTOH when the 999 came out people said "Oh".

As I said - the 916 series looks like it was crafted with a love for bikes. The 999 doesn't.

The 916 is what got me into Ducatis and now all those years later I can still sit and look at my 748 with admiration for hours.

[Nick Pavey]

Really don't know how you can say that mate. It is a work of art,from every/any angle.

Not a lot of bikes you can say that about.

(but not in red! tee hee)

[twpd]

nope, the only thing they are bothered about is winning, if a better system existed they would try it and use it. I'd bet even the bm moto gp bike has conventional forks.

there are no advantages in normal use for singlesiders, its fashion and old hat now, ducati need to look at pushing the performance envelope to compete with the lighter, more hp competition not build their superbikes as fashion items, they can leave that till they do a sport classic 916, it can only be a matter of a few years away given the age of its design :D

I completely disagree with you. There is an awful lot of conservatism in racing too. Going with a totally different design leaves the team with a high risk of failure when it comes to unproven technology. It can all fall flat on its face leaving them in a racing vacuum or nowhere. They just can't afford that. So, technology changes incrementally and not in leaps and bounds as you might think....even at top level racing. Fundamentally bikes are no different to those of 30-40 years ago.

[twpd]

Really don't know how you can say that mate. It is a work of art,from every/any angle.

Not a lot of bikes you can say that about.

(but not in red! tee hee)

RU referring to me? I can say it easily. It's one of the reasons why I won't buy one. I'm a lost customer to them atm.

[KeefyB]

looks are important but as i prefer a 999 in looks to a 998 etc I'm happy to ride one. i had the choice and went for it as it is a better road bike and i like its looks.

oh i also have a multistrada which isn't the prettiest of things and yes, i'm happy to ride that even though it has been hit with an ugly stick :D
Ooh yes,a fine combo to have in the garage.;) :smug:

[doogalman]

Don't they say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? Why do we all have to dig about each-others preferance. I'm sure the replacement will be a great bike . I remember some people saying they did not like the 916 when it was launched. Race teams will extract the best out of anything they have to,
Isn't the MV doing well in european superstock at the moment!!!!

[Gizmo]

You completely missed the point there Gizmo. I am not interested in who designed what, where and when. The point I am making is that the 999 series is downright ugly. It's mis-matched, it looks unfinished, it looks messy (the subrame/frame/swingarm area is hideous), it's not at all elegant. The 916 series is universally applauded as the most beautiful bike design of all time, when it came out people said "WOW". 13 years on people still say "WOW".

OTOH when the 999 came out people said "Oh".

As I said - the 916 series looks like it was crafted with a love for bikes. The 999 doesn't.

The 916 is what got me into Ducatis and now all those years later I can still sit and look at my 748 with admiration for hours.

The looks thing is your opinion Nige, not everyone shares that. I'd agree the 999 look wasn't instantly accesible to the majority but it grows on people. My comments are purely because I'd hate to see Ducati change direction and not do designs which stir emotion and passion, its part of what they are. Whether it appeals to the majority is unimportant what matters with the redesigned sbk ( what this thread started on) is whether its a better bike and ahead and different to the competition. Going backwards to whats been done before won't be enough to tempt me into a new bike when i actually prefer the newer look.

Like you i can spend hours looking at the 999 like i can a 916 or 888 they all have things i like, things i don't but are all snapshots of history and as with life, change and progress ( whether you like it or not) are inevitable. Lets hope Ducat create a new model that does keep the passion going.

[iang]

I loved the 916 shape and still do BUT if you park one next to a 999 it looks so dated and not half as nice as it did originally.

Like others have said everyone has their own taste.

[Stu748R]

I hope the new one looks like a BMW GS1200 as Henners might buy one.

[Rod]

I hope the new one looks like a BMW GS1200 as Henners might buy one.

I'd prefer it if the cylinders don't stick out the sides if it is all the same to you! They would be 'kin expensive to repair if you dropped it. Nothing that is coming out in the press is really a true taster of what will be revealed in November, but we can at least wish for something that is progressive in terms of styling but that echoes the trait of design cues from the past, as these are the characteristics that have set the brand apart from the plethora of bland Japanese mass produced offerings. Take the recent crop of ZX9R and 10R bikes. It is hard to differentiate one years model from the next such is their similarity. The new bike needs to be bold and yet unique such that it encompasses all the appeal of a 916 and the 999, but in a fresh package. If it were a cop out at all, I would still settle for a Desmosedici look a like though.

[spinoli1]

Here's a (long, rambly) thought,

Most of the comments on this matter have been directed at the appearance of the new model and the 998/999.

Not many comments on the serious loss of practicality with the 999 (accepted it is a little more comfy).

One of the things that makes me prefer the previous design is the ingenuity that went into it, such as:

The ease of removing/replacing all of the bodywork - 3 mins 20 seconds, including front mudguard.
There is actually some stoarage space under the seat, not much, but enought to be useful.
The rear shock is easier to access/remove.
The headlight mounting arrangement.
Mirrors that actually work (a little)

Also, virtually all of the component parts of the earlier model appear to have been designed by someone who wanted the item to look good, as well as function well, eg: the bracket/hing mechanism for the seat unit, the rear subframe (what were they thinking with the 999 subframe??).

I remember that in the release blurb for the 999 series, it was stated that the new design incorporated features to make it easier (cheaper) to service. Hmmmm.

I love working on my 998 almost as much as riding it, because it is so cleverly put together.

I've done enough twiddling with 999s/749s to know that this is no longer the case.

This will influence my decision regarding the purchase of the next model.

Plus it must look the bizz.

Spin

[BigJohn999]

An interesting one, these comparisons...

I bought my 999 in Oct 02 because a) for the first time in my life I was in the position of being able to afford a new bike and b) my 748sps was just too uncomfortable.

The 748 is a good looking bike but the original 999 is the best of the later breed. Why? On this first version the original design concept came through unadulterated and pure without the modifications later demanded by public opinion - the slashes in the nose fairing, the cast swingarm. I actually prefer the earlier look. Having owned it for almost 4 years now, the same 2 major things annoy me now as they did in the 1st week of ownership - poxy mirrors, too small a petrol tank. All the mirrors need is another inch on the span of each, all the tank needs is another 5-6 litres / 50 miles range. Why didn't they change these? - much more of an annoyance in everyday riding than the supposed instability caused by the upper vents and the supposed lack of rigidity in the cast as opposed to the fabricated swing arm.

Comfort-wise the 999 is much better to ride than the 748 - it just fits 6'4", 16 stone me better. Lights on the 999 are miles ahead of those on the standard 748, but not quite as good as the Australian spec dual main/dip I fitted to the 748 for its last few months.

The 999 was the first mainstream bike to reflect the stealth fighter-style of slabby, angular planes that is now best seen on KTMs. I liked the new clocks with all the readouts you could want and an easy change from mph to kmh for when you go abroad. I even like the little pilot light in the screen - it gives that extra little bit of visibility to other road users.

What really ****ed me off was the fact that you could buy brand new 999 base model for about 8.5k from DK Motorcycles within a couple of years of their launch. OK, I don't expect any manufacturer to worry too much about us early purchasers a couple of years down the line, but do you remember when 916s were really expensive and kept their price? Ducati offloading stock cheap did me no favours, but all you lucky people who took up this offer were the real winners. I'm sure Ducati lost money on it and devalued their brand to boot.

So back to the original thread. MCN can say what they want. Same as I can. My speculation can be as good as theirs. The 916 series is really beautiful but dated when compared to the 999 series. The replacement needs to compete with the modernity of the latest KTMs, the raw beauty of MVs and the general sharpness of Aprilias and some Benellis, whilst retaining some of the better features of the 999. I like the look of the desmosedici - maybe something with a hint of that in its styling? There should perhaps be hints of the 916 series but no more than that. Practicalities? well, a bigger tank, better mirrors, a bit more comfort, lower servicing costs. Would I buy one? I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. But it will be great!

If I were to buy another bike it might not even be a Ducati (but I'd try to keep the 999 too). I do like the look of the Moto Guzzi Griso. Apart from the 999, the current Ducati range leaves me cold. The sports classics are interesting but I've got a real one from 1980 (a 900ss) so I probably wouldn't go for one of those. STs just look dull, Monsters maybe, Multistradas, hmmm, but a hoot to ride I hear. Aircooled 1000ss? dodgy styling now almost 10 years old. Maybe a Superlight? oops, they don't make those any more....

I shall now go and get my tin hat and take cover....

[sbwells]

What really ****ed me off was the fact that you could buy brand new 999 base model for about 8.5k from DK Motorcycles within a couple of years of their launch. OK, I don't expect any manufacturer to worry too much about us early purchasers a couple of years down the line, but do you remember when 916s were really expensive and kept their price? Ducati offloading stock cheap did me no favours, but all you lucky people who took up this offer were the real winners. I'm sure Ducati lost money on it and devalued their and to boot.

While we don't really have parallel imports to contend with here in New Zealand, we do however, have a bunch of importers that have brought in large number of second hand bikes from Japan on the basis of the exchange rate.

Unfortunately the majority of Japanese imported bikes arrive due a major service and have no history, no RED masterkeys for the immobilisers etc. These bikes have generally ended up been sold for about 10-15% less than a comparable New Zealand secondhand bike and it didn't take long for second hand values of the New Zealand bikes to plummet with the oversupply. The problem has been further exacerated buy the initial reluctance of people to buy secondhand bikes from Japan in the $20-30k range forcing the importers to further reduce their prices to off load the stock.

[Henners]

I bought a 996R which had been imported from Japan and apart from a full service being needed it was like new :)

The 916 design - like that of the Porche 911 or the Ferrari Dino or the RC30 will always invoke strong passions because is truely iconic i.e. regarded as sacred.

The 999 never will.

[Gizmo]

The 748 is a good looking bike but the original 999 is the best of the later breed. Why? On this first version the original design concept came through unadulterated and pure without the modifications later demanded by public opinion - the slashes in the nose fairing, the cast swingarm. I actually prefer the earlier look.

What really ****ed me off was the fact that you could buy brand new 999 base model for about 8.5k from DK Motorcycles within a couple of years of their launch. OK, I don't expect any manufacturer to worry too much about us early purchasers a couple of years down the line, but do you remember when 916s were really expensive and kept their price? Ducati offloading stock cheap did me no favours, but all you lucky people who took up this offer were the real winners. I'm sure Ducati lost money on it and devalued their brand to boot.

.

Sorry, grabbed 2 very worthy points from your post.

Thats the first time I've seen anyone mention the 2 different shape 999's, like you I prefer the first sleeker, lower narrow faired version, the 05 on was a watered down look with "better" ergonomics but it does appeal to more people.

the reason the 916 held its value was that Ducati underproduced and couldn't meet demand, over the years they've increased production and now manufacture too many bikes so its ends up in end of season close outs and having to offer incentives to move them, destroying second hand values. There is no exclusivity, even the DD16RR is going to end up in a big production run and I bet they do another run the next year. Compare that to BMW who restrict supply to keep new prices high but more importantly residuals strong. Similarly BMW dealers will always try and buy bikes back rather than let them go to other dealers, they'll offer good prices for them, I can't say any Ducati dealer I've been to would do that. Whatever they do with the shape they also need to keep the bike exclusive, reading their business plan they do seem to recognize that so i'd guess its going to be expensive and with 999 trade ins having low values not many of us will swap anyway :(

[jj250]

Well my personal opinion is the 916 series does now look a little dated,however its still a stunning design, ive just sold my 748 and purchased a 749, i really disliked the 749 when launched but its really grown on me, most non bike friends tell me the 749 looks much more up to date which i think is hard to argue with, however if you ask me "in 10 years time will it look so good?" my honest answer would be no, designs such as the 916 dont happen very often, thats what makes them so iconic.
Heres a couple of apparent spyshots of the new bike found on a website from the usa, hope you havent seen them before

[KeefyB]

The 748 is a good looking bike but the original 999 is the best of the later breed. Why? On this first version the original design concept came through unadulterated and pure without the modifications later demanded by public opinion - the slashes in the nose fairing, the cast swingarm. I actually prefer the earlier look.
Nah mate,the fairing changes were made after instability problems in AMA Superbike racing.I saw Eric Bostroms bike at Daytona in '04 where they had blanked off the air ducts and put on a wider screen.Thats why America got the new shape bikes before us.
Anorak mode off!;) :D

[andyb]

999r has allways had the wider fairing.

[KeefyB]

999r has allways had the wider fairing.
Yes,but now its wider,....and slotless!

[900MAN]

Best info you can get.

"All models have a 1099cc engine, but are designated 1098 (for fear of association with the IRS 1099 tax form - REALLY!).

Three Models-
$14,995 - 1098 Base: 160hp/80+tq
$19,995 - 1098S: adds carbon bits and Ohlins suspension pieces
$24,995 - 1098 Tri-Colore: adds race exhaust in the crate, red/white/green three-color paint
(Pricing is preliminary and may change slightly)

Styling somewhat similar to Desmosedici RR, but with longer, sharper front fairing and featuring dual headlights; New dash design; Single-sided swingarm; Dual oval underseat exhaust; Weight reduction of 37.5 pounds; Monoblock radial-caliper brakes w/330mm discs.

All 1098 models will come configurable as mono and biposto. Base model outperforms 999R!!

Ducati will NOT campaign the new bike for the coming AMA season; instead skipping a year for potential rule changes.

Official debut will be at Milan in November, with deliveries expected to begin in February."

[Gaz 748]

Where do you get your information ?

[andyb]

Yes,but now its wider,....and slotless!

No its not wider....its allways been that wide! (and not like my arse):lol:

[900MAN]

Cant say, but very reliable

[andyb]

Define outperforms?:confused:

[KeefyB]

No its not wider....its allways been that wide! (and not like my arse):lol:
Hmmm mebbe,but they did summat differant wi'it as the screen is differant.(And not interchangable)

[KeefyB]

Define outperforms?:confused:
Considerably lighter and more powerfull than yow!
(Harry Enfeild,......ask yer dad!)

[andyb]

Considerably lighter and more powerfull than yow!
(Harry Enfeild,......ask yer dad!)

Not just a jiggle on the figures then........again?

[Washboard]

Do people still buy MCN?

[andyb]

Do people still buy MCN?

:lol:

[doogalman]

Not many, £1.80 and fewer pages by the week. I'm sure it going down. Rarely buy it myself whereas i used to every week.
Allways preferred "Motorcycle Weekly" anyway.

[749er]

[QUOTE=Gizmo]Sorry, grabbed 2 very worthy points from your post.

Thats the first time I've seen anyone mention the 2 different shape 999's, like you I prefer the first sleeker, lower narrow faired version, the 05 on was a watered down look with "better" ergonomics but it does appeal to more people.

QUOTE]

Same here.I have an 04 model and really like the twin vents in the front and the sleeker front fairing,though the new model in black looks good as the colour makes it looks smaller and the lack of vents less noticeable.

Following the 916 was going to be as hard as U2's follow up to the Joshua Tree. The 999/749 may not look as good as a 916,in sme peoples eyes, but it widely considered a better bike to ride, and IMHO still much better looking than pretty much every other current sports bike out there save the MV Augusta, and maybe Triumph Daytona 675.

[Rod]

Best info you can get.

"All models have a 1099cc engine, but are designated 1098 (for fear of association with the IRS 1099 tax form - REALLY!).

Three Models-
$14,995 - 1098 Base: 160hp/80+tq
$19,995 - 1098S: adds carbon bits and Ohlins suspension pieces
$24,995 - 1098 Tri-Colore: adds race exhaust in the crate, red/white/green three-color paint
(Pricing is preliminary and may change slightly)

Styling somewhat similar to Desmosedici RR, but with longer, sharper front fairing and featuring dual headlights; New dash design; Single-sided swingarm; Dual oval underseat exhaust; Weight reduction of 37.5 pounds; Monoblock radial-caliper brakes w/330mm discs.

All 1098 models will come configurable as mono and biposto. Base model outperforms 999R!!

Ducati will NOT campaign the new bike for the coming AMA season; instead skipping a year for potential rule changes.

Official debut will be at Milan in November, with deliveries expected to begin in February."

900Man, I too would like to know the source of your info !!! Understand if it is all supposedly "off the record" but a clue as to it's origins would be nice, as we hear so many so called notions of what the new bike will be like and if this information were to have come from an official source then we can at least concentrate less on the mechanical changes and ponder more on the much awaited looks of the bike, which arguably will make or break future sales and sway many of us back onto the bigger superbikes. (I am surprised at the displacement though when much was made of making the new bike a 1200 - 1198cc. Doubtless this will mean in 2008, the factory will release an 1198 version and we all jump on the merry go round again, just as was the case with the 916 to 998 leap)

I had a string of 748's, 998s and 999S's but currently ride the Monster S4RS. I'm just waiting to see how the new bike shapes up, if I am going to switch back to more familiar territory.

[Rod]

Pricing quoted by 900 Man seems favourable (optimistic). You sure these are right, given the cost of the 999 range at present (£9 - 20K)?

Prices given in US Dollars as:

$14,995 - 1098 Base: 160hp/80+tq
$19,995 - 1098S: adds carbon bits and Ohlins suspension pieces
$24,995 - 1098 Tri-Colore: adds race exhaust in the crate, red/white/green three-color paint

A quick conversion results in the following:

1098 base model: £7914.93
1098S: £10552.00
1098R Tricolore: £13195.00

If correct these are 'kin cheap by comparison. Methinks you mean Euros and not US dollars IMHO.

In euros the prices seem more in line with what we might expect

1098 base model: £10131.00
1098S: £13500.00
1098R Tricolore: £16889.00

Even so the "R" version seems priced way down from the norm. I think around €30,000 seems more on the money.

Just a thought mind.

[900MAN]

Prices are in dollars, but the US have always had their auto's etc at prices us brits would kill for.
The source was from someone in the US who's an MV owner who happened to be in his dealer (also ducati) and gave him the info on a confidential basis after he's just got back from a dealer meeting in Salt lake city.

I'm sure more will come out in due course.

[Rod]

Prices are in dollars, but the US have always had their auto's etc at prices us brits would kill for.
The source was from someone in the US who's an MV owner who happened to be in his dealer (also ducati) and gave him the info on a confidential basis after he's just got back from a dealer meeting in Salt lake city.

I'm sure more will come out in due course.

I am sure it will. Thanks for the update. If he got the info from a dealer meeting (albeit through the employee who attended) then it I suppose is safe to assume that other dealers (more importantly the UK dealers) willalso be party to the same information soon. I will have to take my thumbscrews down to my local dealer in the near future and see if I can't extract some more out of them too !!

[BigJohn999]

Styling somewhat similar to Desmosedici RR, but with longer, sharper front fairing and featuring dual headlights; New dash design; Single-sided swingarm; Dual oval underseat exhaust; Weight reduction of 37.5 pounds; Monoblock radial-caliper brakes w/330mm discs.

All 1098 models will come configurable as mono and biposto. Base model outperforms 999R!!


Now that does sound interesting. Wonder what px I'll get on the 999 with 16k on the clock and a 52 reg... Just hope the mirrors work and the tanks larger...

[900MAN]

Now that does sound interesting. Wonder what px I'll get on the 999 with 16k on the clock and a 52 reg... Just hope the mirrors work and the tanks larger...

Haha, you and me both, mines got 2k less than yours so reckon I'll be fine (joke).

[Rod]

Haha, you and me both, mines got 2k less than yours so reckon I'll be fine (joke).

Glad I sold my 999S when I did as methinks come November the ass is going to fall out the market for secondhand prices IMHO. If I was sure the replacement was going to be the looker we all hope for I would be selling mine now before the specualtion becomes knowledge to all and sundry

[Wave]

So is there an estimate release date yet, or an unveiling ?

[Wylie1]

Not from MCN, but it's the 1st time I've seen these piccies:-

[sbwells]

I think the second of these will be closer to the mark

[900MAN]

official release 14th november at the Milan bike show.
I will be there to see

[Rod]

I think the second of these will be closer to the mark

I hope not as it looks like a poor man's Desmosedici with the rest resembling a lightly modified existing back end to the current 999. Besides which the picture is "back to front" unless Ducati know something we don't. I prefer the first of the two if I had to make a choice but I am not too keen on the CBR600 front end resemblance. Much of the original criticism of the 999 focused on the rear end of the bike and that awful untidy exhaust and underseat area, as well as the exposed rear cylinder, which on the 916 was neatly disguised by the sides of the airbox, the lines flowing from the lower edge of the tail unit down the airbox and across the split in the side fairings down towards the nose. Claudio Domenicali's interview states that as well as taking cues from the 916, the new bike will involve much more flowing lines and do away with awkward contours, and frankly none of the new artist impressions convey that. The raptors and rockets pictures are some months old now and look like a real lash up. I also hope they dispense with the controversial side air deflectors as well, as these do nothing for the lines of the bike IMHO. The only decent picture is the 1200R mock up (which was originally published in the German "Motorrad" magazine). Any indications that R & R might publish ,seem as far fetched as the MCN comical efforts. The spy shots published in Italian "Motosprint" magazine appear to offer little in the way of the final form of the bike, but in conclusion the only certainty we know of is the mechanical configuration which will be I imagine very close to 900Man's sourced info. Speculation reigns at present but it doesn't hurt to do so. With a little over ten weeks to go to EICMA 2006 in Milan, my guess is that the bike will have to break cover soon for final shakedown testing and it's only then, assuming there are some keen eyed snappers around at the time, we will finally get to see something resembling the final offering before the covers officially come off in Milan.

[Rod]

The "Motorrad" picture of the Ducati 1200R, is arguably the best computer generated image we have seen so far. With a restyling of the nose to liken it more to the Desmosedici and a single sided swing arm on the back, plus some reworking on the sides to perhaps incorporate a more enclosing airbox, to cover the exposed rear cylinder and allow the lines to flow up and back towards the tail unit, is much more preferable to the half baked MCN pictures and those published in "Motociclismo".

I hope with those kind of features, if you can imagine them grafted on to the pic of the 1200R, will more closely resemble something along the lines of what we might catch a glimpse of in the press over the next few weeks, as opposed to bored Adobe Photoshop artists efforts. We will see. 900 Man, you realise you have a duty now to email and post up the first pictures, when you are in Milan and beat MCN to it !!!!

[900MAN]

Guess I will be beaten to it as I'm going on the 15th and the first day is the 14th, still a trade day so should be able to get up close

[spinoli1]

It's probably way too late but, Ducati - if you're reading this:

Make the bodywork easy and quick to remove/replace.
Make the fuel tank bigger.
Make the mirrors work.
Have little bit of storage under the seat, easily accessible - just enough for a lock or similar.
Make it lighter.

Beauty is in the eye etc.... it's funny, the exposed rear cylinder is the ONLY part of the 999 design that I personally like. But that's just me.

Anyway, it's getting close now. Fingers crossed everybody.

Spin

[749er]

It's probably way too late but, Ducati - if you're reading this:

.
Make the mirrors work.


Spin

Why does everyone have a beef with the mirrors? I just dont see what the problem is or what the difference is between the 749/999 and other sports bikes I have ridden such as the ZX6R and the RSV1000R. yet only the 749/999 comes in for criticism in the press.

Its simple, wear a very tight fitting jacket, which works for me or just flick your elbow out and look thru the gap, which also works for me. You can see fine.

Same about the fuel tank range.....its a sports bike not a tourer.....

sometimes we can all be a bit too picky...design inevatibly means compromise, those good looks dont come for free I am afraid.

Removing the panels from a 916 or 999 is a doddle in comparison with a ZX6R, which has 13 allen bolts per side.749/999 has 4 DZUS clips, 2 studs, 2 allen bolts and 4 half turn clips total. It takes all of 5 minutes to get both sides off.

So come on give some credit where its due, Ducatis have some fantastic desgn features!!

[Sharpy G]

Why does everyone have a beef with the mirrors? I just dont see what the problem is or what the difference is between the 749/999 and other sports bikes I have ridden such as the ZX6R and the RSV1000R. yet only the 749/999 comes in for criticism in the press.

I agree, my R6 mirrors were useless ! & UGLY unlike the 749R ones
just flick your elbow out when you need to, you can still hear sirens over a termig !!

Same about the fuel tank range.....its a sports bike not a tourer.....

Buy a 749R ! bigger, nicer tank.....sorted !

Removing the panels from a 916 or 999 is a doddle in comparison with a ZX6R, which has 13 allen bolts per side.749/999 has 4 DZUS clips, 2 studs, 2 allen bolts and 4 half turn clips total. It takes all of 5 minutes to get both sides off.

I once again, agree, the panels on my R come of real easy, the R6 took ages ,I'm sure there were more bolts in just the bellypan that the whole 749R fairing !
you could always velcro on all your panels to make it quicker !!! LOL

So come on give some credit where its due, Ducatis have some fantastic desgn features!!

Design & style is one thing the Ducatis have in bucketloads !
748/9** vs 749/999 aesthetics arguements aside

they look better than any other bike

btw - I prefer mine !

and they make me grin when I ride 'em ! that's what's important isn't it ??

[iang]

Spot on Sharpy,

Mirrors, great, just look through the gap under your elbows.

Tank range, fantastic on the 749R, best range of any bike I have owned.

Bodywork removal, easy, 4 allen bolts, 2 dzus fasteners, total removal time per side about 30 -40 seconds, jesus how fast do some people want the panels to come off !!

Looks, I have never owned a bike that attracts so much attention, there is always a crowd looking at my bike and no negative comments from any of them.How some people say that they are 'ugly' is beyond me but everyone like different things I suppose.

[Sharpy G]

Spot on Sharpy,

Mirrors, great, just look through the gap under your elbows.

Tank range, fantastic on the 749R, best range of any bike I have owned.

Bodywork removal, easy, 4 allen bolts, 2 dzus fasteners, total removal time per side about 30 -40 seconds, jesus how fast do some people want the panels to come off !!

Looks, I have never owned a bike that attracts so much attention, there is always a crowd looking at my bike and no negative comments from any of them.How some people say that they are 'ugly' is beyond me but everyone like different things I suppose.

WE can't help being the "younger generation" of Ducati riders now can we Ian !

[doogalman]

WE can't help being the "younger generation" of Ducati riders now can we Ian !
Soon to be the middle-aged generation!!!

[iang]

Christ Graham, I am the 'middle age' generation as is Andy R.

I should be riding a harley by now !!!

[Sharpy G]

Christ Graham, I am the 'middle age' generation as is Andy R.

I should be riding a harley by now !!!

I said younger ! not young !! don't go ageing yourselves !! LOL

youre as young as you feel......my 749R makes me feel like I'm 17 on my first LC again (without the jeans, flying jacket & hitec high tops)

just been out for a blast and some dinner at Boxhill

feeling good

[749er]

just been out for a blast and some dinner at Boxhill

feeling good

ventured out tonight too. thought about going to Box for a bit of grub, but with the dark visor turned and headed for home.

tipped it into a tightening bend at 80ish on the way home.That used to feel fast.....after my first TD at Cadwell, it seems a bit slow now

Aren't track days just plain evil? :-)

[Sharpy G]

ventured out tonight too. thought about going to Box for a bit of grub, but with the dark visor turned and headed for home.

yes, stupidly I went out with my blue irridium one on DOH !
didn't half regret it on the way home at 9pm !!

note to self - use brain before leaving on bike, not just whilst riding

[spinoli1]

30 - 40 secs to take both sides off.

And seat unit, tank, top fairing, front mudguard?

[iang]

Seat unit about 2 minutes, tank dont know never removed it, top fairing about 2 minutes ( only 2 bolts and mirrors ), front mudguard is a wheel out job but so are most bikes with the wider front part of the mudguard.

[749er]

30 - 40 secs to take both sides off.

And seat unit, tank, top fairing, front mudguard?

For a mono,the seat unit and tank can come away as one peice,and you seperate them off the bike (one bolt). From memory there is one large bolt and one small bolt either side. Undo these, the power supply to the fuel pump and the two quick release fuel lines, slide the whole tank and seat assembly backwards and its off.

Top fairing is unplug the cables for the indicators then a bolt either side.

It is very quick indeed,cant see how it could be made quicker.

[JPM]

Seat unit about 2 minutes, tank dont know never removed it, top fairing about 2 minutes ( only 2 bolts and mirrors ), front mudguard is a wheel out job but so are most bikes with the wider front part of the mudguard.

2 Mins to remove seat but you have never removed the tank??? How does that work you have to remove the tank to get the seat unit off...

[iang]

Why do you have to remove the tank to get the seat off ????

All I done was to undo the large bolt that attaches the seat unit to the tank and it comes straight off which takes 2 minutes maximum.

[Wave]

Ducatis are Very easy to take apart, its almost too easy.
my GSXR750 k2 was an absolute pig to work on, think yourselves lucky.

[andyriches]

Christ Graham, I am the 'middle age' generation as is Andy R.

I should be riding a harley by now !!!


Pardon ,Speak for your self Grandad i'm still just a spring chick compared to you

[Rod]

Ok, as far as the much publicised tech specs go for the 1098, there will it seems now definitely be three variants, the base model, the S and the R (Tri-Colore). There does however appear to be some debate over the pricing structure, as the RRPs released in the US are significantly lower than previous years and much has been made of Ducati addressing the power gap compared to a Japanese inline four of 1000cc to remain competitive, so the theory, it is safe to assume, is that the factory wants to further boost sales by bringing the prices down so as they are closer to those of their competitiors, thereby increasing their market share. Perhaps at the expense of exclusivity but I don't think that is a priority for them now given the poor sales of the 749/999 series following it's launch.


I still (as good a bike as it is) think £20,000 is not a justifiable price for a 999R, given that there are better performing and equally well handling bikes out there for several thousand pounds less. A fact reflected in so many articles in the press, when it comes to summarizing a bikes good and bad point. The usual, "it gets my vote, it is a great bike but it is not worth the extra £5000" is a common sight in model shootouts. Maybe Ducati finally realise the fact. There will always be those prepared to pay the extra regardless. (I am one of them having bought two full RRRP 999S in the past). All I do know as of today is the UK dealer conference is set for a fortnight's time and doubtless they will be privvy to the same info as the US dealers are from the Salt Lake conference. Paper pictures were shown to the attending dealers (retained by Ducati) so as to negate the chances of images ending up on the net. I can't blame Ducati for that, since they naturally do not want their thunder stolen when the new bike is unveiled in November at the Milan show. My dealer is potentially organising a trip to the factory to see the new model, for potential buyers but that will almost certainly be AFTER the launch for disclosure reasons. If the US pricing structure bears any relation to the UK sector (unlikely I know) that would make the S version around £11000, which is the same price as the 999 base model official RRP !! At that rate it would put some previous buyers in the realms of potentially affording the R (Tri-Colore) version. Power figures being touted are 160BHP 80lb torque for the base model (more than the current 999R !!), 170BHP for the S model and 180BHP for the R version, which is only twenty BHP less than the Desmosedici and at least £15,000 less !!

All that remains now is for some credible pictures to hit the world wide web, but Ducati are doing a superb job at keeping these under lock and key. I have a good relationship with my dealer and I don't want to jeopardize that in any way by posting anything up here, so as far as pictures go, looks like we are at the mercy of a stealthy press photographer, since absolutely nothing is leaking out of the factory gates at present. Until then speculation rules, but by all accounts the new bike is gorgeous with a capital G !!

[Sharpy G]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ducati-750-custom-built-quad-road-legal-plg_W0QQitemZ320023284376QQihZ011QQcategoryZ18449Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

LOL

[RedMist]

[QUOTE=Sharpy G]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ducati-750-custom-built-quad-road-legal-plg_W0QQitemZ320023284376QQihZ011QQcategoryZ18449Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


LOL

But not a bad attempt.... :) :) :)

[Sharpy G]

[QUOTE=Sharpy G]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ducati-750-custom-built-quad-road-legal-plg_W0QQitemZ320023284376QQihZ011QQcategoryZ18449Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


LOL

But not a bad attempt.... :) :) :)

Looks like it's going backwards tho' ?!! LOL

[doogalman]

As history proves good designs like the 916 series allways come around again , look at mini skirts as an example, Timeless.

[Sharpy G]

As history proves good designs like the 916 series allways come around again , look at mini skirts as an example, Timeless.

yeah, but that one looks like yours in reverse ! LOL

[doogalman]

OOOyyyy watch-it.

[doogalman]

So! would that quad would have been good looking if he'd used 999 panels????

[Sharpy G]

So! would that quad would have been good looking if he'd used 999 panels????

if he put the front at the front and the back at the back maybe !

[doogalman]

Classic designs;
http://motor.tuportada.com/img/wp/porsche-911-turbo-33.jpg
http://motor.tuportada.com/img/wp/ford-gt40-12.jpg
http://www.cookware.co.uk/images/library/stock/feature/628.jpg
http://www.micapeak.com/DPG/ducati/916/916.jpg
http://www.leatheretc.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/50pc.JPG

[Sharpy G]

I'd go with the 1st, the 2nd definately, and as Claire is out then also the last one ! LOL

[doogalman]

But Sharpy!! The other two have both been displayed in the Design Museum, and the 916 also in in Gugenheim.

[Sharpy G]

But Sharpy!! The other two have both been displayed in the Design Museum, and the 916 also in in Gugenheim.

I think you'll find they put anything in Art Museuems these days mate

Dead bovine

human body parts

toilets, etc etc


LOL

[doogalman]

Yes, but thats not good design, thats art .

[Sharpy G]

Yes, but thats not good design, thats art .

why don't we do a Poll on that !! LOL

[doogalman]

No need mate. There is only 2 places bovine belong, Fields and then the oven.