M620Sie Swingarm removal

[skidlids]

Oh what a fun job it is
Removing the swingarm from the rear of the engine.
Firstly I didn't know that the pinch bolts were actually cotter-pins, similar design to those used for fixing the pedal cranks on push bikes, and as such why the hell do Ducati put a Allen bolt recess in the top of them.
After removing the 10mm Hex nuts from the underside of the swingarm, I gave the bolts a little tap as they didn't budge I assumed they were threaded and the nut already removed acted as a lock nut. WRONG, bad assumption that as I broke a decent 1/2 drive Allen key trying to undo them.
After a call to AK and bouncing ideas off him we came to the conclusion that they must have a flat on them and would need knocking out. This turned out to be the right method just needed a good knock with a 2LB hammer.
With these cotter-pins out I then proceeded to remove the circlips from the end of the swingarm pivot shaft.
Now the next fun and games have started, trying to remove the pivot shaft from the swingarm.
It didn't want to knock out with a drift and the 2LB hammer even after a good soaking with easing fluid.
I have now resorted to using a draw bar, actually I'm now on my second one after stripping the threads on the first.
While I'm typing this it is sat under a fair bit of pressure while having been dosed in easing fluid yet again.

This is a 4 year old bike and does make me wonder if Ducati have ever thought of using something like copper-slip at the assembly stage

Oh well back to work as I want to try and seperate the engine from the swing arm by the end of the evening

[AK]

did you get it out kev in the end?

barstewards they are:mad:

[Scooter916]

Kev an issue we come across every day on out Scooters, The italians assemble things pretty dry, Its down to us the dealer to strip and lubricate pivots etc as part of the pre delivery inspection, We now do everything on a bike, But after 3 years its paying dividens as when they come in for work a simple whistle is all it takes to strip usually siezed parts, If the selling dealer is aware of a common issue after a few years use they should flag it up the chain so that the PDI can be ammended and save the issues that you are now having.
Doesnt help you but it could if dealers cared.
Glyn

[Jools]

Now you know why I had so much hassle trying to fit an alloy ST4s swingarm to my ST2.

It was pretty clear to me that from where the pinch bolt holes were located in the swingarm that the 'pinch bolts' would have to be some sort of cotter pin - because the pinch bolt holes intersected the swingarm pivot hole, so the bolts would have to have a flat on them.

Trouble is that the swingarm I got off eBay came without the swingarm pivot and without the cotter pins. The pivot was OK - exactly the same part number as my ST2 - but the cotter pins :mad: I had them on back order with both Nelly and JHP for nearly a year and they still couldn't get them. Now you know that both Nelly and JHP can usually pull rabbits out of hats when it comes to parts so it wasn't their fault - the damn things are just nigh on unobtainable.

In my case I just gave up and left the original swinger on.

The moral is...DON'T THROW THE OLD COTTER PINS AWAY.

PS: I suppose that if you've got a damaged one that got mullered taking it out, you've always got a pattern that you could get a local engineering shop to replicate, in my case I had no idea what size or shape they should've been apart from the sketch in the parts catalogue.

[skidlids]

Jools from what you said I will have to keep them with the Alloy swingarm for when I sell it on, but I may take a few pics of them before hand.
I tried un-doing them as I was acting on information that led to me believing they pulled a cone shaped wedge into postion from underneath. This may well be true on other bikes somwhere but not on the M620.
I still haven't managed to remove the pivot although I have so faf managed to move it 25mm with my draw bar, just made a lonfer sleeve for my draw bar that should allow me to move it about another 6mm which will hopefully see it clear of one side of the swingarm, I'm hoping that at this point it will become easier to move.

[paynep]

Hmm, mine came out fine - undid the pinch bolts and drifted it out using the pukka Ducati tool which I bought to get my 916 apart many years ago and has been used on 916s, 888/851s, SSs and the 620. Its an alloy bar that is turned down at one end to fit into the pivot and has a head that you can belt to push the pivot through. Its also dead useful for lining everything up on reassembly to get the shims right.

Not much help immediately, but a worthwhile investment. Alternatively if you have access to a lathe you can copy mine in return for a spare for me.....

[skidlids]

cheers Paul, may have to make something up for the future, ideally I would like te have the swingarm seperated from the engine by the end of this evening as I can then set about removing the SS engine from its frame and putting the 620 in its place, then start sorting everything eles out.
SS road bike to 620 race bike in 2 weeks, its going to be a challange, luckily I don't need to remove the SS swingarm as I have a spare that I can fit to the 620 engine, will just need to shim it up.
If all goes to plan I hope to have the 620 engine in the SS chassis by the end of the weekend

[paynep]

Kev, Give me a bell if you think that there's anything that I can help with, but if its M620ie into SS carbed frame, all you need is a SSie airbox and two bits of red wire to make it all work - assuming that you have the M620 loom..... if not a smoldering iron is a deffo.....

Paul (07790 770469)

PS Hope Oulton is 15 or 14/46 as I only have one rear sprocket!

[skidlids]

Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ee
Swingarm pivot is finally out, so tomorrow I will be removing a SS engine from its frame to make way for the 620 lump.

I haven't got a SSie airbox unless I knick the one off my Minitwin, I have got the M620SSie airbox and the 600SS one.
I do have a M620ie harness, clocks, ECU amd all 3 keys, but I just couldn't get it to run while it was a complete Monster, blinking immobiliser.

My intention is to try it on a 750SSie ECU and see how badly it runs, I also intend to use either the M620 or a 750SSie fuel pump inside the earlier SS tank.

Gearing for Oulton, I haven't even thought about that yet
Two weeks to go and so much to get done

So the job list is quite big

F
Remove SS engine
Fit Monster 620 engine (have to decide on engine mounting bolts)
sort airbox and Exhaust
Sort rearsets, Clip-ons, 916 fairing, screen and fairing mounts
Improve brakes, shock and forks
Sort Electrics including coils, ECU, Tacho etc
Sort race seat unit, seat support and catch tank
Sort a pair of Diablos on wheels
Fit transponder mount, race numbers and stickers

Get running and test ( test will probably be at Oulton if I get it done in time)
Hope like hell it doesn't run to badly and that the gearing is close and that the clutch doesnt slip, the brakes work and that it doesn't handle like a shopping trolley.

[twpd]

I've got an ssie airbox you can borrow.

Now...re. the swinging arm....ya shudda asked and I'd have told you about them cotter pins. Mine took just a swift tap - as a matter of course I dropped the arm out so I could lubricate the spindle. I'm sure you will be able to get some cotter pins made up in an engineering shop. In fact I am doing that right now although I will be pushing my favours quotient to ask for more.

I can get a CAD dwg knocked up if you want.

[skidlids]

Cotter-pins are out and undamaged and will not be used on the 620 Class A bike as I will be using a steel swing arm from a 600SS, so one less problem to worry about.
Already started stripping the SS this morning, got until the Moto GP starts then I can have a break for lunch, just popped on here for a phone number or two

[skidlids]

Well we are slowly getting there, here are some pics from today
Progress was aided by the phone call I made to Paul Payne this morning.
So I would like to say thanks to Paul for some sound advice.