View Full Version : Here's my problem...
Right then, it's probably electrical so I'm lost... hope someone can help:
Riding along quite happy, then the engine starts to pop and misfire.
Shortly after, the engine is on/off, like surging and dying repeatedly.
Pull over and it dies.
Re-start her and tickover is as smooth as yer bum, but slowly increase the revs (in neutral) until it gets to around 4k then it dies. Release throttle and it catches again at tickover and it ticks nice n smooth.
Leave it 15 mins, fire up, ride off - all fine and dandy again.
Whatsgoingon????!!!!
n :confused:
Rattler
24-Jul-2006, 17:18
Ghosts in the machine - argggggghhhhhh !!!
sounds like fuel starvation Nick! Blocked filter or even pump/relay!! hard one to find"" Nelly bring it on?...mav
I had a very similar problem a few weeks ago and it turned out to be the pressure sensor . Good luck
Ta guys (no, not u timothy!)
Fuel starvation was my suspicion, but i'm not sure that ties up with the on/off power (it's either 100% on or 100% off, not nufink in between). Blew through the filter, a very technical check that was, and it seemed clear. No splits in the short tubes connected to the pump either. Could it be the relay, or is that only active when the pump is primed?
Pressure sensor - d'you mean the air pressure sensor?
If only it was a mechanical prob, then it'd be a piesh of pish!
GsxrAge
24-Jul-2006, 23:32
Ta guys (no, not u timothy!)
Fuel starvation was my suspicion, but i'm not sure that ties up with the on/off power (it's either 100% on or 100% off, not nufink in between). Blew through the filter, a very technical check that was, and it seemed clear. No splits in the short tubes connected to the pump either. Could it be the relay, or is that only active when the pump is primed?
Pressure sensor - d'you mean the air pressure sensor?
If only it was a mechanical prob, then it'd be a piesh of pish!
Check your fuel tank breather !!
skidlids
25-Jul-2006, 00:00
came across a similar problem once, turned out to be the cranksensor, the hotter the engine oil got the worse it was, and the hihger you reved it the weaker the signal to the ECU
Yes mate it was the air pressure sensor that could only be diagnosed by plugging it into a pc .
Nattyboy
25-Jul-2006, 07:59
Nick - a long shot but check the loom plug going into the ECU is secure - my 748 displayed similar symptoms at Mallory last month and the plug into the loom had worked its way loose !
Nat
Age, fuel breather seems fine.
Nat, there's no such thing as a bad idea - and so far wiggling a plug is the cheapest :)
Skids, stop saying expensive things! But you might be right - it's only happened when the motor gets hot chugging around slowly, tis ok once I get on the open roads and the temp drops a bit.
Think I'll have to hook it up to a diagnostic thingy and throw my credit card at it tho.
Shortly after, the engine is on/off, like surging and dying repeatedly.
Pull over and it dies.
n :confused:
Epilepsy?
psychlist
25-Jul-2006, 17:07
How old was the petrol in your tank :frog:
How old was the petrol in your tank :frog:
not nearly as old as you :frog:
Shazaam!
25-Jul-2006, 18:58
Perhaps dirt in an injector nozzle. Poor atomization and restricted flow at higher rpm flow demands.
psychlist
25-Jul-2006, 21:03
not nearly as old as you :frog:
Did it not help when i wee'd in your tank then? :devil:
james81273
26-Jul-2006, 09:52
b0ll0cks
i was just about to type a general question on this matter. I am having the same sort of problems ENOUMOUS flat spot with spluttering around 4k to 4500 and then the bike picks up with vengeance. Off throttle it pinks when slowing in a gear. But 1st thing in the morning when everything is still warming up...no problems what’s so ever?.
bradders
26-Jul-2006, 13:02
james - dont they ALL have a flat spot at 4k? I have an FIM and mine still does...
b0ll0cks
i was just about to type a general question on this matter. I am having the same sort of problems ENOUMOUS flat spot with spluttering around 4k to 4500 and then the bike picks up with vengeance. Off throttle it pinks when slowing in a gear. But 1st thing in the morning when everything is still warming up...no problems what’s so ever?.
I've just had this with mine.
Have you fitted open pipes/filter without fitting a power commander/FIM eprom?
In my case the fueling was out.
The nice man at moto rapido sorted it out for me.
:) Crust
bradders
26-Jul-2006, 13:16
runnin nice then now crust? show that jap claptrap a clean set of heels now then......
james81273
27-Jul-2006, 09:47
thank bu66ery for that. weird thing is it does it only when the bikes around 190f so till i hit traffic everything is happy. Mike from MDR said it would be a power commander to map the issue out even though it has been chipped. Not sure if its a FIM chip in their. Is it obvious when peeling back the sticker on the ECU? and DAFT question but is the EPROM light erase. ( you erase the contents of the chip by peeling back the sticker ontop of them)
the 996 has had the following done. Termis 50mm standard filters and the restrictors removed.
I guess just one of the annoying things i have to live with till i have enough ££ to through at it again?
thank bu66ery for that. weird thing is it does it only when the bikes around 190f so till i hit traffic everything is happy. Mike from MDR said it would be a power commander to map the issue out even though it has been chipped. Not sure if its a FIM chip in their. Is it obvious when peeling back the sticker on the ECU? and DAFT question but is the EPROM light erase. ( you erase the contents of the chip by peeling back the sticker ontop of them)
the 996 has had the following done. Termis 50mm standard filters and the restrictors removed.
I guess just one of the annoying things i have to live with till i have enough ££ to through at it again?
are you me?
I have a 996 bip in pretty much identical spec apart from an ITG air filter in the airbox.
Mine had exactly the same huge flat area (no way was it a spot).
I tried several eproms, to no success.
The problem was that the mix was down to 1.8%, Steve at Moto Rapido could adjust it to 3.8% which is still a little on the lean side but there isnt enough adjustment to go any further.
My next step will be either an FIM or power commander and getting it mapped.
The eproms will erase in UV if you remove the sticker on the eprom itself, even in daylight if left long enough.
The FIM eprom is identifiable because it sits on a secondary daughter board of its own which plugs into the ECU.
A good setup of balance, TPS, mixture etc got mine very rideable with only a slight hesitation if given a lot of throttle at low revs.
:)Crust
james81273
27-Jul-2006, 12:00
yea...SNAP
mike from mdr said that he has set it up with the correct fueling. Before it was running very rich which would explain why the problem wasnt so obvious.
Now its setup correctly, but has this annoyance.
granted its really only a problem when you open it up abit at 4k but seeing iam usually around there whilst riding its a bit annoying. also on part throttle in low revs it slightly back fires through the injectors...is that normal?!!!
Is the FIM module located inside the ECU? like an expansion card with ribben cable attaching the two device 1 into an eprom slot adapter the other into the FIM module? or it it external like the power commander?
I blame the s0dding EEC and there noise emissions..noisey cans save lives....officer honest
If so ..and i think this has been answered before in a thread..power commander or fim.. and... who best at setting them up in and around surrey. would do nelly but thats a bit of a trek. any issues with SIGMA? motorapido is a little ride around the m25 and then there's the question of getting back as i guess it would be a day job
... who best at setting them up in and around surrey. would do nelly but thats a bit of a trek. any issues with SIGMA? motorapido is a little ride around the m25 and then there's the question of getting back as i guess it would be a day job
I had Sigma do a bunch of similar work to my 996 a few years ago. I had the grunter spec done and I can't fault his work.
I had all of this (http://www.sigmaperformance.com/ducati996bipracer.html) done and the bike went like a rocket ship when I got it back.
Incidentally, the gent that Neil mentions in the article - Ian, is our very own 'the old man' who posts on here and races in Desmo Due. He had the original 'grunter'.
Tetol also had a grunter.
james81273
27-Jul-2006, 12:54
grunter? is that like the full monty or is it a big bore mod?
..power commander or fim.. and... who best at setting them up in and around surrey. would do nelly but thats a bit of a trek. any issues with SIGMA? motorapido is a little ride around the m25 and then there's the question of getting back as i guess it would be a day job
PM sent.
RX
Shazaam!
27-Jul-2006, 14:17
All 996's came with two injectors per cylinder. Before the 996 model, only the SP and SPS bikes had dual injectors. However, those earlier bikes use the larger P8 computer which is capable of firing the injectors sequentially, meaning that the second injector sprays only at the higher engine speeds.
The 996, on the other hand, is controlled by the smaller 1.6M computer which is incapable of firing the injectors sequentially. So the engine does not run well with both injectors firing at the same time, especially at low rpms where spray durations get too short to get good spray patterns. The fuel dribbles out.
According to FIM, dual injectors are not needed unless you're making more than 120HP, and so they have developed a single injector chip for the 996.
Read more about it here:
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/996eproms2.html
This is a quote from FIM's site:
"We have two UltiMaps for the 996 Biposto '99/2000 model. There have been many problems with these models spitting on low throttle or cruise at low speeds. We have finally made a chip which cures the problem (type UM222), but requires that one injector be disconnected from each cylinder. This is because the 996 has two injectors hard-wired in the harness and we can't switch one off like we can with the 996SPS or early 888 computers. The benefit is that the single injector spits more cleanly at low durations than two injectors do ( because they have only half the time each) and idle and low throttle repsonse is heaps better. We remapped a 996 with this mod and the difference is incredible. We do sell a twin injector verison of the same chip (type UM221), but in most cases the UM222 works better, and is worth the effort."
http://www.fuelinmoto.com.au/
According to Brad Black:
"The UM222 single injector EPROM cures the 996 misfire that occurs when you roll the throttle open at 3,500 rpm. The UM222 is only for models fitted with strada cams, not models having SPS etc. cams. Typically it happens when you get it to 3,500 rpm. Duh duh duh duh vroom. Not 3,000 rpm. Not 4,000 rpm.
THIS IS THE ONLY MISFIRE THE UM222 SINGLE INJECTOR EPROM CURES OR IS INTENDED TO CURE."
skidlids
27-Jul-2006, 15:08
Only ever ridden my 996BP with the 54mm Full system and a JHP chip and can't say I have any issues with it in the throttle response department.
I'm picking up another 996BP tomorrow afternoon, it has a 45/50mm Termi conversion and is fitted with a chip to suit, I have no idea which chip is fitted but I will be having a look over the weekend. The 40 mile ride home should give me an idea of any flat spots etc so I will report back once I know.
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