Questionnaire???? [Archive] - Ducati Sporting Club UK

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 15:24

Any news on this?

It was being put together 3 weeks ago - it must be one hell of a questionnaire if it's taking 3 weeks to write :rolleyes:

Good point, I'll make sure I get it all done by the end of the week.
Want to make sure it is inclusive of all relevant questions.
As none have been forthcoming since the email went out requesting input I've primarily been sifting through the questioins already answered by the class specific versions sent out by the riders reps to make sure questions aren't duplicated where both covered original issues reasonably. That will allow me to give the results to the questions already covered as well as asking the remaining ones all in one go.

I don't think it will have any bearing on this season so please bear with me as I've had a pretty busy spell work wise recently.

Hope this helps.

27-Aug-2006, 15:25

did you not get AK's email then Paul:confused:

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 15:28

Yes, points raised were already included by and large, please thank him, or rather thank you both for your input.

27-Aug-2006, 15:50

Good point, I'll make sure I get it all done by the end of the week.
Want to make sure it is inclusive of all relevant questions.
As none have been forthcoming since the email went out requesting input I've primarily been sifting through the questioins already answered by the class specific versions sent out by the riders reps to make sure questions aren't duplicated where both covered original issues reasonably. That will allow me to give the results to the questions already covered as well as asking the remaining ones all in one go.

I don't think it will have any bearing on this season so please bear with me as I've had a pretty busy spell work wise recently.

Hope this helps.

You had NO responses? I didn't because I'm not a current rider.

I would have hoped you'd get at least a few.

Let me know if you need a hand, I'm unemployed at the moment. Well, apart from coaching at the CSS on Tuesday.

TP

domski

27-Aug-2006, 16:08

Want to make sure it is inclusive of all relevant questions.
As none have been forthcoming since the email went out requesting input

Ummm... There was a thread called "DD Questionnaire - Your questions please"

Not much trawling required, here's the 'summary' of the thread...

Would you prefer the machine rules to remain unchanged? Yes/No

Would you like to exclude 695cc machines in 2007? yes/no

How many (UK) rounds would you prefer in 2007? 6 or 7

Which month would you prefer to start in? March or April

If we race at Assen, would you prefer it to be points or non-points?

How many scoring races to count? All points to count/drop 1 race/drop 2 races

How would you like the series to be administered? 1 dedicated person/A committee as per 2006

Would you like to have rider reps? yes/no

Would you like a long race? yes/no

Would you like to remove the rule which requires the top 3 to move out of Class B? yes/no

How many should we allow to sign up for the 2007 series....32, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64

If limiting the number of entries to one grid how do we decide who should be entering the series

How Many grids should we try for if we have less than 50 sign up..... 1 or 2

If only running 1 grid and we have 40 or more signed up how do we decide who are reserves/non quallifiers

If only one grid and DD races at Mallory at a club event with 32 on a grid how many will be happy to race in a class other than DD

Would you like to go race yet?

HTH

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 16:29

Ummm... There was a thread called "DD Questionnaire - Your questions please"

Not much trawling required, here's the 'summary' of the thread...

Would you prefer the machine rules to remain unchanged? Yes/No

Would you like to exclude 695cc machines in 2007? yes/no

How many (UK) rounds would you prefer in 2007? 6 or 7

Which month would you prefer to start in? March or April

If we race at Assen, would you prefer it to be points or non-points?

How many scoring races to count? All points to count/drop 1 race/drop 2 races

How would you like the series to be administered? 1 dedicated person/A committee as per 2006

Would you like to have rider reps? yes/no

Would you like a long race? yes/no

Would you like to remove the rule which requires the top 3 to move out of Class B? yes/no

How many should we allow to sign up for the 2007 series....32, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64

If limiting the number of entries to one grid how do we decide who should be entering the series

How Many grids should we try for if we have less than 50 sign up..... 1 or 2

If only running 1 grid and we have 40 or more signed up how do we decide who are reserves/non quallifiers

If only one grid and DD races at Mallory at a club event with 32 on a grid how many will be happy to race in a class other than DD

Would you like to go race yet?

HTH

Thank you for that, I do recall the thread and did wonder why none of those who had contributed were willing to help me out by sending in their input as I thought I'd reasonably requested ?.

Lets not go off on another he said we said you said but all I'm really trying to understand here is why there is so much resistance to making the process easier for all involved.

This is a genuine open question, not sarcasm, not getting at you, just trying to understand the thought process.

Oh and by the way, I think you've missed off the "what is your favourite cheese" question :) ;)

If the last remark can't be taken as a bit of fun I guess we are all in a pretty poor old way.

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 16:32

You had NO responses? I didn't because I'm not a current rider.

I would have hoped you'd get at least a few.

Let me know if you need a hand, I'm unemployed at the moment. Well, apart from coaching at the CSS on Tuesday.

TP

Thanks for the offer Tony, let me know what you had in mind.

Your input would have been used as you are still on the list of riders who are entered for the series this year as far as I'm concerned.

Welcome to drop in for a chat on the way back on Tuesday as I guess you must be passing this way if going to Rockingham with CSS ?

Ask Andy if I'm still on the cancelation list if you get a minute, only looking to do the first level.

27-Aug-2006, 16:33

... Lets not go off on another he said we said you said but all I'm really trying to understand here is why there is so much resistance to making the process easier for all involved.

This is a genuine open question, not sarcasm, not getting at you, just trying to understand the thought process ...

I don't think anyone has resisted making the process simpler at all. Why do you ask?

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 16:37

Because some seem to have a continuing aversion to sending information in by email as previously mentioned. It really does make it easier to use that way as I'm sure you can appreciate and gives ALL riders an equal opportunity.

I'm just referring to info for the questionnaire here as that was the topic being discussed.

27-Aug-2006, 16:40

domski

27-Aug-2006, 16:57

Thank you for that, I do recall the thread and did wonder why none of those who had contributed were willing to help me out by sending in their input as I thought I'd reasonably requested ?.

Lets not go off on another he said we said you said but all I'm really trying to understand here is why there is so much resistance to making the process easier for all involved.

This is a genuine open question, not sarcasm, not getting at you, just trying to understand the thought process.

Fair enough, I will give you a genuinely honest answer (and not directed soley at you)...

You had contributed to the thread in question, so therefore why didn't you email it to yourself? Seriously though, you were aware of it, why didn't you have a quick look for it? You're writing the questionnaire right? and you knew there were questions on a thread.

:confused:

Surely part of the "Managements" job is to dare I say it 'pro-actively' search out the info that they know is already there? Can you understand the frustration of people when we're asked to email something that you're clearly already aware of? You had posted on the thread, but you still need someone to email the info?! It took me all of 60 seconds to find the thread and copy the info.

When I do anything for the unofficial site, I am fully aware that I'd be wasting my time if I said "Can you send me your lap times please", but I don't let that bother me for two reasons...

1. I know that the majority of people will appreciate my effort.
2. I enjoy doing it, so it's not a hassle.

I spend my own time searching for the info and putting things together on my own, as I see that is part of the responsibility that I have taken on. This is also why I get frustrated sometimes, when MT members require things to be handed over on a plate before they can act on it, rather than spending some time searching for it themselves - it's all out there, available to everyone!

Now, I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone has loads of spare time, but if you don't have the time to take on the role, then maybe it should be looked after by someone that does? Whatever that role is.

Oh and by the way, I think you've missed off the "what is your favourite cheese" question :) ;)

If the last remark can't be taken as a bit of fun I guess we are all in a pretty poor old way.

Actually, I think that's funny :)

Loz

27-Aug-2006, 17:31

I don't know ... I'm seeing all sorts of sides here, and justifications on all sides.
If an organiser wants info emailing to him, email it to him. Trying to trawl through various threads on the Message Board is a nightmare, you not only have to find the thread(s) that contains the info you want, you also have to take the time to satisfy yourself that you have found all the threads and all the info posted on the Board. This last bit can be very time-consuming.

I don't always enjoy the style in which some MT members choose to post (to be honest, it sometimes makes me wince), but I have to say that Paul James's request regarding being emailed is a reasonable one, for the reason I've stated above.

On the other hand, if you feel that it is unreasonable to expect people to email their questions/suggestions/etc to the organisor, offer yourself up as his replacement and do things your way. But when you've done this, make sure you don't adopt the occasional supercilious tone at the same time ;) :)

domski

27-Aug-2006, 17:55

If an organiser wants info emailing to him, email it to him. Trying to trawl through various threads on the Message Board is a nightmare, you not only have to find the thread(s) that contains the info you want, you also have to take the time to satisfy yourself that you have found all the threads and all the info posted on the Board. This last bit can be very time-consuming.

People will be people though, and some just can't be bothered to email things through, perhaps more so when it's been discussed already - maybe thinking that someone else will do it?

Therefore, the person requesting the info has a certain responsibility to seek this information, rather than sit back in the hope that it will all be emailed through.

As I said, if I was putting something together (as I have done), I would search for the info I need, and you're right, it is very time consuming, but that's the commitment I made.

I don't always enjoy the style in which some MT members choose to post (to be honest, it sometimes makes me wince), but I have to say that Paul James's request regarding being emailed is a reasonable one, for the reason I've stated above.

I don't have an issue with PJ's request to email questions to him. I think I covered this in my reply above too. I agree with the wincing but too, sometimes.

On the other hand, if you feel that it is unreasonable to expect people to email their questions/suggestions/etc to the organisor, offer yourself up as his replacement and do things your way. But when you've done this, make sure you don't adopt the occasional supercilious tone at the same time ;) :)

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to email their questions. It's perfectly sensible to request that.

BUT, to request people email the questions from a thread that the MT member had contributed to seems to be a bit silly, and possibly a bit lazy on their behalf. As PJ stated

"I do recall the thread and did wonder why none of those who had contributed were willing to help me out"

...so he was aware of it and even one of those to contribute to it, but yet it would appear that the 15+ questions within that thread had been left out (that's how it reads to me).

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 18:03

Fair enough, I will give you a genuinely honest answer (and not directed soley at you)...

You had contributed to the thread in question, so therefore why didn't you email it to yourself? Seriously though, you were aware of it, why didn't you have a quick look for it? You're writing the questionnaire right? and you knew there were questions on a thread.

:confused:

Surely part of the "Managements" job is to dare I say it 'pro-actively' search out the info that they know is already there? Can you understand the frustration of people when we're asked to email something that you're clearly already aware of? You had posted on the thread, but you still need someone to email the info?! It took me all of 60 seconds to find the thread and copy the info.

When I do anything for the unofficial site, I am fully aware that I'd be wasting my time if I said "Can you send me your lap times please", but I don't let that bother me for two reasons...

1. I know that the majority of people will appreciate my effort.
2. I enjoy doing it, so it's not a hassle.

I spend my own time searching for the info and putting things together on my own, as I see that is part of the responsibility that I have taken on. This is also why I get frustrated sometimes, when MT members require things to be handed over on a plate before they can act on it, rather than spending some time searching for it themselves - it's all out there, available to everyone!

Now, I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone has loads of spare time, but if you don't have the time to take on the role, then maybe it should be looked after by someone that does? Whatever that role is.

Actually, I think that's funny :)

Well at least we've got a bit of dialogue developing. I take on board your points but if I was to say; "please can you guys help me out here and make my job easier by sending info as requested" would that help ? Maybe one of you would like to volunteer to sweep up all the forum info and send it in ?. Be aware that if you missed anything it would be your ar*e on the line and not mine for a change ;-). If on the other hand you individually send it to the DD address it is the RC, or more to the point me who will get it in the neck for any errors or omissions.

Surely whether one has time to take on a role is very dependent on how much genuine help and goodwill is forthcoming ?. I truly appreciated your keeping the points table up to date for instance and publicly said as much but it seems that you've stopped doing that now ? I didn't make a public song and dance over it, just got on and sorted it myself.

I'd like you to consider that there are quite a few of you guys (and guyesses) out there making your contributions but there's only one of me trying to pull them all together into a workable document in this instance. It is feasible if simple requests like the email thingy are accepted.

My intention in doing this is only to benefit the series by answering questions that have arisen throughout the year in the hope that a little more stability can be introduced for next year.

I'd like you to ask any MT member you have trust in to comment on the amount of effort I've put in to sorting this out to date. Maybe Jools as he's respected by most or perhaps Paul Sutliff, an ex DD rider.

I would appreciate being able to continue any discussioin in a reasonable manner and will agree here and now not to get agitated or respond unreasonably myself. Not sure what else I can say at this juncture.

domski

27-Aug-2006, 18:27

Well at least we've got a bit of dialogue developing. I take on board your points but if I was to say; "please can you guys help me out here and make my job easier by sending info as requested" would that help ? Maybe one of you would like to volunteer to sweep up all the forum info and send it in ?. Be aware that if you missed anything it would be your ar*e on the line and not mine for a change ;-). If on the other hand you individually send it to the DD address it is the RC, or more to the point me who will get it in the neck for any errors or omissions.

OK, I don't really know how to explain my view properly, but I will try...

It is my belief that it is the responsibility of the Race Committee to gather this information. There are two MT members and two rider reps. Are you saying that four blokes can't get this information from the forum?

I run a website all on my own, everything that is on that website has been gathered, put together, written by, requested, chased up, searched for... by me - one person!

I'm fairly confident that I could put together a questionnaire within easily within a week, and probably just a couple of days, allowing people to email anything I may not find myself. The RC have had 3 weeks and still no end product. I'm not having a go, my way is my way and your way is your way.

I know I could do that too, because I have done...

Myself and Lucie put together the rider profile folder in under a week, with almost 40 profiles. I had to chase some people, but I got my head down and it got done without too much work to be honest. A few hours of my time and probably a couple hours of Lucie's time to print out the info and put it in a folder.

Surely whether one has time to take on a role is very dependent on how much genuine help and goodwill is forthcoming ?

How much help you require depends on how much work you want to do yourself. If you're relying on people to email you, then we'll be here all year - whatever the topic. Someone needs to grab the situtaion by the balls and crack on with it.

I truly appreciated your keeping the points table up to date for instance and publicly said as much but it seems that you've stopped doing that now ? I didn't make a public song and dance over it, just got on and sorted it myself.

Yes, but I don't think that requires an explanation does it.

I'd like you to consider that there are quite a few of you guys (and guyesses) out there making your contributions but there's only one of me trying to pull them all together into a workable document in this instance. It is feasible if simple requests like the email thingy are accepted.

To be fair, I think you're making a meal of this questionnaire Paul. I've given examples of some of my efforts above. Putting a questionnaire together really isn't that big of a deal is it? If we're being honest.

My intention in doing this is only to benefit the series by answering questions that have arisen throughout the year in the hope that a little more stability can be introduced for next year.

That's great and we do appreciate stuff, when it gets done, eventually ;)

I'd like you to ask any MT member you have trust in to comment on the amount of effort I've put in to sorting this out to date. Maybe Jools as he's respected by most or perhaps Paul Sutliff, an ex DD rider.

I would appreciate being able to continue any discussioin in a reasonable manner and will agree here and now not to get agitated or respond unreasonably myself. Not sure what else I can say at this juncture.

I don't question your effort or committment, and some good things have been achieved since you've been on the RC. However, I'm not gunna blow smoke up your arse because I think that some things could have been done better and quicker and without so much drama. Have you tried Red Bull? ;)

I think I've been honest in my replies.

27-Aug-2006, 18:34

< waves hand above parapet:) >

maybe peeps who got the 2 rider reps emails did respond to them, and also on the forum here, and then maybe thought they didnt need to also respond to your email Paul?:confused:

off to chill......................

<walks off whistling>

skidlids

27-Aug-2006, 19:10

Would you prefer the machine rules to remain unchanged? Yes/No

Would you like to exclude 695cc machines in 2007? yes/no

How many (UK) rounds would you prefer in 2007? 6 or 7

Which month would you prefer to start in? March or April

If we race at Assen, would you prefer it to be points or non-points?

How many scoring races to count? All points to count/drop 1 race/drop 2 races

How would you like the series to be administered? 1 dedicated person/A committee as per 2006

Would you like to have rider reps? yes/no

Would you like a long race? yes/no

Would you like to remove the rule which requires the top 3 to move out of Class B? yes/no

How many should we allow to sign up for the 2007 series....32, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64

If limiting the number of entries to one grid how do we decide who should be entering the series

How Many grids should we try for if we have less than 50 sign up..... 1 or 2

If only running 1 grid and we have 40 or more signed up how do we decide who are reserves/non quallifiers

If only one grid and DD races at Mallory at a club event with 32 on a grid how many will be happy to race in a class other than DD

That about covers it for me.
Many of the querstions in the top half of the list were included in the questionnaire I sent out, for which I got back 26 replies, which I didn't think was bad going.
These replies I have forwarded to the rest of the RC and PJ should be going over the results of it along with the results from Tim's feedback to be able to give answers to some of the questions without having to ask them again.
I haven't seen the feedback from the 620 riders, but from my own feedback it shouldn't be to hard to give a answer on things like machine specification and rider entry criteria in the very near future. Hopefully at the same time as PJ sends out his questionnaire to tidy up loose ends.

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 19:19

Pretty much spot on, in honesty the class B version was a tad more detaild so covered off more of the questions, it is just a case of making sure that those that are also covered in the class A version are put out as results of the originals rather than being asked again. I have some of my own to add to the list and will be sorting it as previously stated.

Tidying up loose ends is going to be helpful as it allows people to start making their decisions whether to ride in the series next year, do bear in mind that we still have 2 rounds to go and it is only August.

27-Aug-2006, 19:39

.....we still have 2 rounds to go and it is only August.

..till Friday

and many asked for the mech rules to be locked down in may:rolleyes:

dont think you need to even think about limiting entries when we are now struggling to fill grids:alien:

Paul James

27-Aug-2006, 21:10

I run a website all on my own, everything that is on that website has been gathered, put together, written by, requested, chased up, searched for... by me - one person!

Exactly, its all down to you, no responsibility or accountability to anyone.

Pretty enviable position to be in isn't it ?

I'm not saying that you've done anything wrong but its all been your own decision making whereas I'm officially accountable to the riders on the one hand and the MT on the other. I have to do quite a few more things than are immediately apparent from what is posted here and have to take the rap if it goes wrong.

Maybe thats why I'm being careful in how I present the next stage of the decision making process ?

This isn't a snipe at you but my take on the situation we each find ourselves in.

domski

27-Aug-2006, 21:47

Exactly, its all down to you, no responsibility or accountability to anyone.

The point I was trying to make, was that I manage to do all those things on my own, amongst a whole heap of other things and websites I run (over 20 sites and forums), and I can still do it and work full time (and I was doing it before my unemployed spell when I was working 14 hour shifts for 2 years!!).

So there is no responsibility in getting the points table correct? No accountability in writing a a wikipedia page, commentator crib sheet, news reports... The DD Racer site may be 'unofficial' but there is a lot of responsibility and accountability that goes with it.

I don't slap any old cr#p on there. It may be unofficial, but it still reflects on the club, and therefore it is run in such a way to promote the race series responsibly.

Pretty enviable position to be in isn't it ?

Ummm... I think that's a dangerous statement, and I disagree strongly. I may come back to this.

So enviable that nobody else is doing it!

I'm not saying that you've done anything wrong but its all been your own decision making

That's called being pro-active. You should try it. You could have started with a commentator crib sheet back in March - you didn't, but you found fault in me doing one. You could have provided race reports for BSN (they've been asking) - you didn't. You have written nothing for the race programs. In fact, from a PR point of view, I think you've failed DD big time!!

If I had to wait on the MT, nothing would ever get done. I truely believe that, and that's one of the many reasons why I'll keep the DD Racer site independent.

I have to do quite a few more things than are immediately apparent from what is posted here and have to take the rap if it goes wrong.

You must have a box full of wraps then. Seriously Paul, how long does it take to write a questionnaire? Most of the questions are blatantly obvious and could be listed in 2 mins. If you don't know what they are, then you're not doing your job correctly. You represent me, and I am at the mercy of anything that you do or do not do, and I feel let down! As well as insulted and antagonised regularly.

Maybe thats why I'm being careful in how I present the next stage of the decision making process ?

I think that's b#ll#cks. You're just slow. It's an MT trait.

I'm really at a loss and can't understand how something so very important that affects 40-odd people who are spending £200,000 a year can be run with such careless abandon.

This is so very important to us riders. I can see why some people may not be that bothered by it, or think that we're making a mountain out of a mole hill, but what we have could be so flaming good, and I think it's lost down a dark ally right now, and that upsets me.

Tonio600

27-Aug-2006, 21:59

dont think you need to even think about limiting entries when we are now struggling to fill grids:alien:

I'm working on that, Roy748 may be with us next year :D

(I will lend him my DD back for the DH memorial if me forks are back together)

domski

27-Aug-2006, 22:35

I'm officially accountable to the riders

Is that right?

Which riders are in a position to hold you accountable?

You weren't voted in by us, and can't be voted out by us. I don't see how you are accountable on that basis. What do we do? Send an email to the official DD address I suppose? The one that only you reply to.

You nominated yourself to look after DD this year (or as good as), and unless your MT peers ask you to step aside (which they wouldn't do) then it's only up to you to decide whether to stay or not.

On the other hand, every member has to act in a responsible manner, as we most certainly are accountable. Not only that, but you feel it's your perogative to insult your members, and no doubt we can be banned from the club as well. I can't see how the members have any say in anything. The whole MT system is a complete shut out.

I'll tell you something 100% true. If the DesmoDue series was a business and not a part of the Ducati Sporting Club - you'd have no customers by now.

It's a miracle that there are 33 entries for Snett, but it's not that great when we had over 60? registered riders in March.

Something isn't working right is it?

If I didn't care about it, I'd happily sit back and watch it disappear into obscurity, so don't come out with the old "Domski is a trouble maker" cr#p.

SOMEONE needs to do SOMETHING to SAVE DD!!!!!

28-Aug-2006, 10:14

SOMEONE needs to do SOMETHING to SAVE DD!!!!!

exactly:)

am seriously thinking not to carry on next year, but maybe move across to another organisation which has rules in place and we would know where we stand (like it or not) the constant changes here are getting so many people a bad reputation every time they speak out.
I battled last year, it seems its your turn this year Domski. If anyone dares to speak out as you say, you are just labelled as a trouble maker and it seems that someone within the heirachy of the club will do their utmost to make you leave of your own accord so they cannot be blamed and therefore its just another trouble maker that has 'left' & no loss to the club.

I love this series its the best I have been involved in (and I have done quite a lot of motorsport) I think most people in the paddock know my passion for being involved, but each person can only take so much of the 'will we wont we' and the like. I try to keep out of things on the message board these days, as I dont want to bring the club into 'disrepute' - and we both (CK & I) plug the club where ever we can.

For example what ever happened to a tyre company in our area - always supported the club in anyway they can, giving members discounts on tyres, supported quite a few DD'ers, gone to a couple of race meetings last year and other events such as Popham, used to do the trackdays, and since a member of the MT visited him he has fallen from grace in 2006. This is all conjecture and cant be proved tho.

Someone who offered their services several times last year as a mechanical inspector in the paddock has not even had the courtesy of a reply from last years RC. This chap is a very thorough mechanic and is an independant club member - why was his offer not taken up?

So, what about all these people who winge about the MT & RC - maybe they SHOULD be given a chance to help out, even on a temporary basis to experience the the alleged problems on the other side of the fence and thus be able to dilute some of the heavy work and flak the MT/RC appear to have, judging by your comments..

I would be more than happy to help the RC in getting a good rapport with New Era and in also getting the rules etc locked down for next year as I have been asking for since the start of this season. I DONT want to see the series down the pan, but I cant see more that 2007 for it right now.

Offer on table.............. offering to work together:)

Grumpy old git from Woking, NOT CK

domski

28-Aug-2006, 10:27

I would be more than happy to help the RC...

Offer on table.............. offering to work together:)

Grumpy old git from Woking, NOT CK

Nice one Alan.

I too made an official and totally genuine offer to Monty on thursday, to help the RC in a media type roll.

Still waiting for a reply though.

Still waiting...

Still waiting...

At least it's only August ;)

dickieducati

28-Aug-2006, 11:17

lets just get the questionaire out and take it from there. if paul is too busy then maybe he could pass stuff onto dom to help out.

all the rules were talked about very early in the season and most competitors were happy to sort it all out then, and i remember well comments such as 'well were not even half way through the season yet' now look where we are why not get things sorted quickly when people want to? also for gods sake lets put these rules in place for 2 years thens it done.

i have to say things do seem to be over complicated. if people offer their services lets take them up on it.

to be fair dom is a clown and far too bloody quick as a rider but imho he has a huge amount to offer in terms of general running of DD or promotion there of etc etc.

this is no way reflects on the performance or committment of PJ but if people are out there will to help an improve the series lets use them

couchcommando

28-Aug-2006, 14:05

From my view here we have a lot of people with the same goals but all heading in a different direction.
I support PJ and Dumski in all their work. I like the idea of AK helping out too as he does appear almost grown up at times.
So we have enough people willing to help we just need a way of making it happen.
I'd offer my services too, I've already been of help as I loaded the printer with paper that did the rider profiles altho Dom forgot to mention me in that one.....

I would hand the promotion and race reports to Dom, people with any doubts of doing this only have to look at his BBC reports and how well they come out :)

fil2

28-Aug-2006, 15:16

can we go race yet ******s............................

Paul James

28-Aug-2006, 18:04

The point I was trying to make, was that I manage to do all those things on my own, amongst a whole heap of other things and websites I run (over 20 sites and forums), and I can still do it and work full time (and I was doing it before my unemployed spell when I was working 14 hour shifts for 2 years!!).

So there is no responsibility in getting the points table correct? No accountability in writing a a wikipedia page, commentator crib sheet, news reports... The DD Racer site may be 'unofficial' but there is a lot of responsibility and accountability that goes with it.

I don't slap any old cr#p on there. It may be unofficial, but it still reflects on the club, and therefore it is run in such a way to promote the race series responsibly.

Ummm... I think that's a dangerous statement, and I disagree strongly. I may come back to this.

So enviable that nobody else is doing it!

That's called being pro-active. You should try it. You could have started with a commentator crib sheet back in March - you didn't, but you found fault in me doing one. You could have provided race reports for BSN (they've been asking) - you didn't. You have written nothing for the race programs. In fact, from a PR point of view, I think you've failed DD big time!!

If I had to wait on the MT, nothing would ever get done. I truely believe that, and that's one of the many reasons why I'll keep the DD Racer site independent.

You must have a box full of wraps then. Seriously Paul, how long does it take to write a questionnaire? Most of the questions are blatantly obvious and could be listed in 2 mins. If you don't know what they are, then you're not doing your job correctly. You represent me, and I am at the mercy of anything that you do or do not do, and I feel let down! As well as insulted and antagonised regularly.

I think that's b#ll#cks. You're just slow. It's an MT trait.

I'm really at a loss and can't understand how something so very important that affects 40-odd people who are spending £200,000 a year can be run with such careless abandon.

This is so very important to us riders. I can see why some people may not be that bothered by it, or think that we're making a mountain out of a mole hill, but what we have could be so flaming good, and I think it's lost down a dark ally right now, and that upsets me.

Some valid points but you know as well as I do that a lot of it is not true. This continuing public argument is getting us nowhere and is using up spare time that could be more profitably spent for the benefit of all concerned.

I respect your right to hold your own views and to express them, I can't agree with all of them so we will have to agree to differ.

I've already suggested that we talk through any differences face to face so if at some future time you feel able to change your mind and accept that just let me know. You have my phone numbers or can easilly drop me a PM or send an email to the dd address.

Paul James

28-Aug-2006, 18:18

Nice one Alan.

I too made an official and totally genuine offer to Monty on thursday, to help the RC in a media type roll.

Still waiting for a reply though.

Still waiting...

Still waiting...

At least it's only August ;)

No wish to take over what John has discussed with you but I think you'll find he has taken the bank holiday off and gone away ? Had the offer been made via the usual RC channels I would have replied in his absence and we could have been on the way to having it sorted by now.

If you still want to do that fire away with what you have in mind.

Paul James

28-Aug-2006, 18:34

exactly:)

am seriously thinking not to carry on next year, but maybe move across to another organisation which has rules in place and we would know where we stand (like it or not) the constant changes here are getting so many people a bad reputation every time they speak out.
I battled last year, it seems its your turn this year Domski. If anyone dares to speak out as you say, you are just labelled as a trouble maker and it seems that someone within the heirachy of the club will do their utmost to make you leave of your own accord so they cannot be blamed and therefore its just another trouble maker that has 'left' & no loss to the club.

I love this series its the best I have been involved in (and I have done quite a lot of motorsport) I think most people in the paddock know my passion for being involved, but each person can only take so much of the 'will we wont we' and the like. I try to keep out of things on the message board these days, as I dont want to bring the club into 'disrepute' - and we both (CK & I) plug the club where ever we can.

For example what ever happened to a tyre company in our area - always supported the club in anyway they can, giving members discounts on tyres, supported quite a few DD'ers, gone to a couple of race meetings last year and other events such as Popham, used to do the trackdays, and since a member of the MT visited him he has fallen from grace in 2006. This is all conjecture and cant be proved tho.

Someone who offered their services several times last year as a mechanical inspector in the paddock has not even had the courtesy of a reply from last years RC. This chap is a very thorough mechanic and is an independant club member - why was his offer not taken up?

So, what about all these people who winge about the MT & RC - maybe they SHOULD be given a chance to help out, even on a temporary basis to experience the the alleged problems on the other side of the fence and thus be able to dilute some of the heavy work and flak the MT/RC appear to have, judging by your comments..

I would be more than happy to help the RC in getting a good rapport with New Era and in also getting the rules etc locked down for next year as I have been asking for since the start of this season. I DONT want to see the series down the pan, but I cant see more that 2007 for it right now.

Offer on table.............. offering to work together:)

Grumpy old git from Woking, NOT CK

Can you come with me when I visit New Era next time up in Rugby Alan ? No date set yet but happy to have you along if you can get away. If it is likely let me know and which days of the week suit you best.

Want to discuss the possibilities for next year soon as I feel that we should exhaust the New Era options before going elsewhere.

domski

28-Aug-2006, 18:56

Some valid points but you know as well as I do that a lot of it is not true.

What is not true then?

Tell everyone what I have lied about in my post.

Everything I have said is 100% true (to the best of my knowledge).

Don't dodge it - Tell me exactly what I have lied about.

This continuing public argument is getting us nowhere and is using up spare time that could be more profitably spent for the benefit of all concerned.

I'm terribly sorry, I didn't realise that you could have solved all the DD issues by now if I hadn't prevented you from doing your work!

However, I haven't been wasting your valuable time for the entirity of the last 8 months have I? So can you explain a couple of things to everyone...

Why hasn't the DSC's PR Organiser (that's you!) written anything about DesmoDue for BikeSport News? - even though the Deputy Editor says he's tried to contact you twice!

Why hasn't the DSC's PR Organsier (that's you again!) written anything about DesmoDue for the race day program?

Why hasn't the DSC's PR Organiser (guess who?) provided the commentator with rider information? - He's been chasing for it too!

These are the absolute basics!

You must have written something on the Ducati UK site though right?

What exactly have you written to promote the DesmoDue series Paul? You are the PR Organiser after all.

I've not seen any series promotion anywhere. I have seen several of the riders making an effort though.

I think we'd all like to know why we've not had our photo and a report in BSN, or the race program, or on Ducati's site, and why it came down to two of the riders to write the folder for the commentator.

PR Organiser??? Pull the other one!

How many questions do you have written for this questionnaire? Must be loads!

domski

28-Aug-2006, 19:02

No wish to take over what John has discussed with you but I think you'll find he has taken the bank holiday off and gone away ? Had the offer been made via the usual RC channels I would have replied in his absence and we could have been on the way to having it sorted by now.

If you still want to do that fire away with what you have in mind.

OK, this is what I said...

<<<<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>

-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic Cann
Sent: 24 August 2006 15:05
Subject: DesmoDue and BSN

Hi Monty,

Please see below my correspondance with Chris Carter (Dep. Editor) of Bike Sport News.

I noticed that he writes the New Era program notes, so I contacted him about getting some DD stuff in there (as it never gets a mention).

I also offered to write a general report on each race meeting for the newspaper.

I was disappointed to find out that he has been in contact on two occasions with DD organisers, yet he still hasn't recieved any replies!

Are we not trying to promote DD, or let people know how good it is?

Anyway, I don't want to get into a wind up or upset anyone, so I want to OFFICIALLY offer my services as DD Press Officer (or whatever you want to call it). I am happy to write a race report for BSN after every meeting, and also program notes (need to confirm with NE) if you are happy for me to do so. Obviously this would be a general type report not a self promotion report (in case you were worried).

Anyway, have a read and let me know if you're happy for me to continue my efforts.

Cheers

Dom

p.s. Garry Gardiner, who you will obviously know as the circuit commentator was absolutely delighted with the rider profile folder that myself and Lucie Stone produced. Maybe an email to Lucie would be nice? I don't expect one for obvious reasons, but she worked hard on this.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: New Era - Snetterton Program Notes

Hi Chris,

My name is Dominic Cann and I race in the Ducati DesmoDue series hosted by New Era.

I notice that you write the program notes/intro and would like to know if you would like me to put a few lines together for you about DesmoDue for the Donington Park program?

I run the DesmoDue 'unofficial' website and forum www.ddracer.com and know every DesmoDue rider (I am also now in regular contact with Garry Gardiner - the commentator) .

Also, do you require articles and reports for BSN? I would be more than happy to provide a championship report and photo's after each round.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Dominic Cann

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 24 August 2006 10:21
To: domcann@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: New Era - Snetterton Program Notes

Dear Dominic,

Please excuse the delay in replying, but there are only four people working on BikeSport News and I act as both Deputy Editor and Advertising Manager.

If I were young, fit and keen that might be OK, but I am nearly 65, far from fit and always very grumpy!

You need really speak to New Era about the programme notes.

There is always so much to say about the Superclub championships that I stay clear of the Ducati, KTM, F2 Sidecars and British Supermono stuff.

As fas as BSN is concerned I would love to have something from you on the Ducati series.

Again there are problems, though!

It is difficult to write too much, because competitors in the Hornet, CB500 and KTM classes then ask why they cannot have a seperate report.

If we had enough room, we would. It is as simple as that.

Just for your information twice this year I have spoken to people involved in running the Ducati series asking for stuff, but you are the first I have heard back from.

Let us start with about 150 words on the next round, obviously concentrating on how the races have affected the championship.

I need it with a day or so of the meeting, particularly as I will be in the USA that weekend and not getting back till the Wednesday morning. Time will be short.

Lets see how it goes and thank you for your kind offer.

Best wishes

Chris Carter

<<<<----------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>

So, let me know if you'd like me to do your job for you!

:mad:

28-Aug-2006, 19:44

Can you come with me when I visit New Era next time up in Rugby Alan ? No date set yet but happy to have you along if you can get away. If it is likely let me know and which days of the week suit you best.

Want to discuss the possibilities for next year soon as I feel that we should exhaust the New Era options before going elsewhere.

New Era are in Ware Paul, a lot closer than Rugby.

I and particularly CK have built up quite a good rapport with Jim and also the rest of the staff at the race meetings. I'm happy to chat with them at the track, and although I will check when back at work, I dont think I have any holiday left to take as having only 20 days a year all has been taken up with racing or TD's for the lads this year.

domski

28-Aug-2006, 19:54

New Era are in Ware

Everyone knows that!

Must have been a test AK ;)

Paul James

28-Aug-2006, 20:04

Everyone knows that!

Must have been a test AK ;)

No, just that I usually meet with Jim at Rugby when he's up there doing his ACU bit as it isn't quite as far for me to travel.

Sorry for any confusion caused, none intended. Happy to try and organise the meeting in Ware if it helps.

NBs996

28-Aug-2006, 20:17

Quit picking holes in each others post and get constructive or I'll get kb to put you both in detention!

Dom, phone PJ - not email, phone him - and talk about how you can become the DD PR man. Or better still, make time for a chat at Snet... no you're NOT too busy!
If you 2 could work together you'd make a good team, but at the moment you both seem to be trying your best to prove each other wrong, what a waste of time!

tis just my observations.

domski

28-Aug-2006, 20:29

you know as well as I do that a lot of it is not true.

This really annoyed me as it's total lies!!

Why would I say things that weren't true?

Why would I come on a public forum and lie?

You've only said this in an attempt at saving some face.

Everything I have said is based on fact.

I don't dodge questions. I deliver on my promises. I go beyond the call of duty to get things done. I don't bitch about it. I don't complain that I'm busy. I don't come up with excuses.

...and to answer Nick's post, I couldn't work 'with' PJ, not for a second, so it's not worth the effort of me talking to him. I have had several rude and insulting emails from him and the bridges have burned.

However, I won't give up on trying to improve DD for the people I care about.

domski

28-Aug-2006, 20:32

...and my questions STILL haven't been answered!!!

Incidently, it would be nice if the RC could decide whether or not I can write the report for BSN before Thursday, as I will be at Snetterton after that.

I know it's only August, but I can dream!

NBs996

28-Aug-2006, 20:38

...and to answer Nick's post, I couldn't work 'with' PJ, not for a second, so it's not worth the effort of me talking to him. I have had several rude and insulting emails from him and the bridges have burned.

Well my chubby friend, if the bridges can't be rebuilt then so be it, but then you'd have to just leave the pr thing alone. There HAS to be productive communication between the RC and PR doesn't there?
Shame if that's the case cos you'd make a much better pr man in an official capicity than doing odds and ends off your own back.

domski

28-Aug-2006, 20:43

Thanks Nick :)

hawk

28-Aug-2006, 20:45

Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Right Lads Take A Short Break
Domski You Have A Email Lol

Sorry To Semtex The Thread But I Need To Speak To Him About Motorcycle Road Racing!!!!!

Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Round 2

domski

28-Aug-2006, 20:49

I've already replied to it :lol:

Clown :D :D

NBs996

28-Aug-2006, 20:53

nobody sends me email :sniff:

28-Aug-2006, 21:26

No, just that I usually meet with Jim at Rugby when he's up there doing his ACU bit as it isn't quite as far for me to travel.

Sorry for any confusion caused, none intended. Happy to try and organise the meeting in Ware if it helps.

will have the time on the Sat this weekend to go and have a chat with Jim when he is free and will take ck with me as she has a v good working relationship with him. C will be prob be scrutineering with Les next year if we are still going racing with them, as he keeps on for her to get more involved.

maybe you can let me know what needs to be discussed at first off this time?:)

domski

28-Aug-2006, 21:27

Oh look......

....sorry, my mistake, I thought Paul was going to answer the questions.

Nothing to see here!! Move along!!

28-Aug-2006, 21:28

dom, if you dont have anything nice to say

then give it a rest for at least 30 mins:p

domski

28-Aug-2006, 21:29

dom, if you dont have anything nice to say

then give it a rest for at least 30 mins:p

You're right. It's only August.

:rolleyes:

28-Aug-2006, 23:16

Paul James

29-Aug-2006, 06:31

Nick, I don't think it's that easy. And you're assuming this hasn't been tried before ...

Thank you Tony, see my post on this thread yesterday 6.04, it ain't that easy Nick !

I also requested that Dominic spare a few minutes for a chat at the Donington round but he stated that he wanted to concentrate on his race preparation as he'd paid out a lot of money for the event. I respected that and left him alone.

NBs996

29-Aug-2006, 08:19

Right that's it... it's detention time!
Stay behind after the race and write a 5000 word essay titled "Why too many pies make me slow"

domski

29-Aug-2006, 08:49

My questions are clearly being ignored as usual, so I'll remind you what they are...

Why hasn't the DSC's PR Organiser/DesmoDue Race Committee written anything about DesmoDue for BikeSport News? - even though the Deputy Editor says he's tried to contact you twice!

Why hasn't the DSC's PR Organiser/DesmoDue Race Committee written anything about DesmoDue for the race day program?

Why hasn't the DSC's PR Organiser/DesmoDue Race Committee provided the commentator with rider information? - He's been chasing for it too!

How many questions do you have written for this questionnaire? Must be loads!

When can we expect the questionnaire?

Why can't the technical rules be locked down for 2007, when we've (majority of DD riders - if not all of us) been asking for months?

couchcommando

29-Aug-2006, 08:51

domski

29-Aug-2006, 09:01

Y'see this is the problem and one of the reasons DD will fail in the not too distant future.
All this public ranting and arguing is not doing us any favours. I reckon in PJ we have a man that can do some of the work and in Dom we have one that could do the PR work. But whilst they prefer to argue and not put the past behind them we will get nowhere.
FFS will you 2 just get together and work together (if allowed of course) as arguing aside you could do some good for the series.
Draw a line today over the past and just start again please :)

I disagree.

Paul has clearly shown he is not the man for the job.

He's done none of the basic things required of him, and continues to dodge the important questions that prove this!

The DesmoDue series needs someone who can take it forward.

I've only volunteered to do half his job coz he's clearly not doing it - and it's the one that he does for the whole club!

Of course he'll deny this and tell us how hard he's been working behind the scenes. Which brings me back to my questions above. Simple fundemental things that anyone running a race series should have dealt with long long ago!

It's not good enough, and as PJ says, he's accountable to the riders as well as the MT.

As a rider I'm now holding him accountable - I can't do it any other way, as my emails get swept under the carpet, and all the MT members will obviously stand by their fellow MT member.

Nothing will change if we all stand about and say what a cracking job is being done - when it clearly isn't. This isn't a time for blowing smoke up the RC's backside. Unless you're happy with the demise of DD.

couchcommando

29-Aug-2006, 09:16

Never said he had done a perfect job, but all this public slating off him will put off anyone else that may stand forward to replace him. I say may because can you see anyone wanting the job knowing what lies ahead ?

TBH all this indecision and unhappiness with how DD is run, the alleged rifts it causes in DSC makes me very nervous about having money tied up in our bikes. The losers if and more likely when the series folds will be those that own the bikes. That's why the public arguing/criticism needs to stop as if it's putting those of us in the series off then it certainly is putting people off joining.
I agree with both sides here that improvements are needed, I don't agree this is the medium to use to get your point across.

dickieducati

29-Aug-2006, 09:52

i dont really see why doms simple questions cant be answered on here. none of them have a hidden agenda. if someone has been to busy to do something,has overlooked something, or simply forgetten to get round to it then say so. its not hard and nothing to lose face about. we can see what needs doing and get it done.

i just dont understand why a simple question cant be given a simple answer and then we can do something. this lock down of rules is such a simple exercise i cant beleive it will still be outstanding (most likely) after this season has finished.

domski

29-Aug-2006, 10:17

Never said he had done a perfect job, but all this public slating off him will put off anyone else that may stand forward to replace him.

It's not a public slating - and not intended as such.

It's just 100% pure fact.

If that fact proves that a job has not been done - why am I out of order to point that out?

Do you honestly think I'd get all wound up about this just for a laugh?

If I wanted to upset PJ, I wouldn't do it on the forum!

I've tried to do this responsibly via email, and I get insulted, antagonised and belittled and STILL don't get answers. So, how else am I supposed to do it? If there is nothing to hide and the job has been done - then PJ can make me look stupid and explain it to us.

dickieducati

29-Aug-2006, 10:31

then PJ can make me look stupid .

vis a vis: shooting fish in a barrel !

but good point well made.

domski

29-Aug-2006, 10:39

vis a vis: shooting fish in a barrel !

but good point well made.

Idiot :rolleyes:

:lol:

ChrisBushell

29-Aug-2006, 10:40

Boys

That is enough, I am going to ask the WEBteam to lock this thread for the time being.

A couple of points:

1) It is policy that the Race Committee dont do negotiaion/disucssion through the message board. All riders have been informed of this, but some seem to ignore it.

2) The RC/MT are quite understanding of the fact that in order to preserve the investment that people have in the bikes, there needs to be a series.

3) I am aware of at least 2 pieces of information that are immenant (i.e. within 48 hours) that will answer some of the pressing questions.

4) As with last year at this time, the next years plan, program, etc does not get looked at till September. We are actually well placed to define the options for next year and get input from the riders.

There is not a lot to be gained from he said - they said debates, on a message board. We have a race meeting on Sunday, I understand that the RC will be available all day there to answer questions, you then have your opportunity to put your points forward.

Chris

Monty

29-Aug-2006, 11:01

domski

29-Aug-2006, 11:13

Dominic, the reason you haven't received a reply from me is because as Paul stated I was away. Your e-mail to me was dated 16.10 on the 25th which was Friday not Thursday as you stated. I haven't even read the e-mail yet since I have only just downloaded it-and I am working today so I doubt it will get read until tonight.

John

Fair enough John.

The first attempts were sent on Thursday though. Both bounced back from the chairman@dsc email addy. Maybe that needs looking into in case anyone is trying to use it?

Cheers

Dom

domski

29-Aug-2006, 11:15