View Full Version : Is Henners Banned from posting ?
GsxrAge
15-Oct-2006, 22:46
Can some one publicly tell us if Henners is banned from the DSC ?
It has come to my attention that his posts are going missing or not going on forum.
Is this censorship at it's worst ?
I do hope that this is a oversite as I am sure that most of the DSC membership are happy to read his comments !!!!!!
Please MT lets have a sensible reply and an honest one !!!!!!!!
Age
webteam
15-Oct-2006, 22:56
No, he's not banned just 'moderated'. Sometimes people are put into this moderated status (BTW Henry isn't the only one right now) for a short time. All it means is that any posts have to be viewed by a member of the webteam prior to them being publically visible.
It is anticipated that this is only a short term measure and will be removed very soon.
Eamonn.
DaveB916
15-Oct-2006, 22:57
Could I ask respectfully ask why ???
Big brother in action then.
GsxrAge
15-Oct-2006, 23:05
I am sorry but why have you the right to censor his posts !
as I understand it you are voted on to the MT by the members of the dsc so surley you need to put it to the membership of the dsc if you feel you need to censor someones posts.
Perhaps this is being done because his posts hit a little close to home ???
This is a Membership and a public forum It is only here beause the membership pay its fees.
Can I ask if henners was informed of this action against him ?
Age
webteam
15-Oct-2006, 23:07
Could I ask respectfully ask why ???
Due to continued harassment of other club members.
In the past, posters have had temporary bans from the system, in this case a ban was not appropriate.
Eamonn.
Could I ask respectfully ask why ???
Why my sponsor AND friend was moderated?
Hrmmm... You need to do more research.
DaveB916
15-Oct-2006, 23:18
Correct you need to ban the source not the sponsors as per our previous emails ?!?!?!?!?
Correct you need to ban the source not the sponsors as per our previous emails ?!?!?!?!?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Are you still here?
webteam
15-Oct-2006, 23:19
I am sorry but why have you the right to censor his posts !
as I understand it you are voted on to the MT by the members of the dsc so surley you need to put it to the membership of the dsc if you feel you need to censor someones posts.
Perhaps this is being done because his posts hit a little close to home ???
This is a Membership and a public forum It is only here beause the membership pay its fees.
Can I ask if henners was informed of this action against him ?
Age
I have the right to censor as I was voted into the position of webteam by the membership and moderation of posts is one of the required functions of that position.
Taking a vote from the membership everytime I moderated a posting would not be a practical way of working.
It's a membership forum not a public forum. There are areas open to the public, but only because the members voted for it to be that way at an AGM.
No specific message was sent to Henry - that was my fault as I was busy moderating other threads (!). Henry and I have PM'd each other this evening.
Eamonn.
DaveB916
15-Oct-2006, 23:20
Yes...Dom I am still here.............. would you like the rules changed to restrict my posting times !!
Yes...Dom I am still here.............. would you like the rules changed to restrict my posting times !!
Why would I want that?
I don't care who posts or when or how much (or even if it's all about them - which posts are by their very nature - personal opinion), but it gets very tedious when someone chases you around a forum posting lies.
That's all.
DaveB916
15-Oct-2006, 23:37
Lies ??
That's slander prove it ??
Lies ??
That's slander prove it ??
I'm still waiting for you to disprove it. You keep going on about how all my sponsors don't like me. I suppose that's not slander?
:rolleyes:
oi you 2 you are detracting from my fun post
http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/showthread.php?t=37714
and I will take that naughty boy "H" with me so I can keep an eye on him!
OK, let me get this straight:
When someone post things that the MT don't agree with, they get moved onto the 'moderated list'.
When someone posts, on multiple threads, a continuous tirade of abuse against someone the MT doesn't agree with, it's allowed to go un-checked.
Am I the only one to think this is very 'interesting'?
loosely speaking
slander is verbal misrepresentation/defamation of character
libel is written
Mike
The best way forward is to report the posts in question using the Bad Post Report button. I'm not saying that that addresses your implicit question, I'm just suggesting that that is the best way forward. If you get my meaning.
Iconic944ss
15-Oct-2006, 23:56
Bottom line in the Terms and conditions that all users of the board agree to as a condition of using the site:
"The Club reserves the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."
Plainly visible in the 'Forum Rules' section (button on main bar) also:
http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/rules.php
Cheers - Frank
Yeeaaassss.... but, Loz, you have to admit that it doesn't sound right? I'm sure the webteam will be along shortly and clear up the worst of Dave's scatological out bursts... but if there was anyone more deserving of being put on a Moderated List then I've not come across them. Meanwhile I'm not aware of anything that Henners has posted that has been so objectionable (to me as a member rather than the MT at least).
scatological
Thank god for answers.com :lol:
Meanwhile I'm not aware of anything that Henners has posted that has been so objectionable (to me as a member rather than the MT at least).
Agreed.
Bottom line in the Terms and conditions that all users of the board agree to as a condition of using the site:
"The Club reserves the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."
Plainly visible in the 'Forum Rules' section (button on main bar) also:
http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/rules.php
Cheers - Frank
Who exactly is "the club" in this instance
how many people have to object about a thread/poster before it or they are removed?
Personally I would remove every post with the phrase "iconic 916" (no offence Henners), but I cant, so if I and every other member cant censor opinions we dont agree with why can a priviledged few do so, just because they dont agree?
Come on TEAM, take a more dispassionate view, and allow the club to breath
phoenix n max
16-Oct-2006, 00:15
Good grief - this is getting all so ridiculous :rolleyes:
If you really feel the need to play big brother then at least be consistant!
I can see one poster in here at least who does not comply with the AUP rules
General Rule 1.1
So wheres the - report this post- button ?
Yeeaaassss.... but, Loz, you have to admit that it doesn't sound right? I'm sure the webteam will be along shortly and clear up the worst of Dave's scatological out bursts... but if there was anyone more deserving of being put on a Moderated List then I've not come across them. Meanwhile I'm not aware of anything that Henners has posted that has been so objectionable (to me as a member rather than the MT at least).
I do hope that the offending posts are withdrawn soon (if they haven't been already). It's simply a matter of reporting the posts to ensure that the WT are aware.
If for some reason the posts are left in place and you are unhappy with this (as I would be if I reported them), I would ask the WT to justify their actions - via a PM.
Some matters are best dealt with quietly. We are all (mostly all) entitled to free speech, but there's a responsibility incumbent on all of us when we exercise that right. Consideration of the consequences and all that.
... So wheres the - report this post- button ?
It's the red triangle icon near the bottom left of each post (although you don't see that icon when viewing your own posts!).
phoenix n max
16-Oct-2006, 00:22
Thanks
We are all (mostly all) entitled to free speech...
"But some are more entitled than others." Ok, bad Animal Farm reference but one that I think is appropriate here.
Mike
I believe that some of the offending posts from this evening are getting dealt with - threads disappearing as we speak - so there's some progress on dealing with the alleged double-standards of censorship that you're concerned about.
If there's concern about the wider issue of double standards - a quiet word with the WT should clear that up. If it doesn't ... well, one step at a time, let's not seek trouble before it's happened.
Bottom line in the Terms and conditions that all users of the board agree to as a condition of using the site:
"The Club reserves the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."
Plainly visible in the 'Forum Rules' section (button on main bar) also:
http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/rules.php
Cheers - Frank
Thanks for that Frank, it made me read the T&C again.
I can't help but notice the distinct lack of any provision in there to put forum participants on a "moderated list". Could you point me to the relevant section please?
Thanks for that Frank, it made me read the T&C again.
I can't help but notice the distinct lack of any provision in there to put forum participants on a "moderated list". Could you point me to the relevant section please?
Mike
Just butting in here, but the mechanism by which the WT moderate posts is somewhat irrelevant, provided the moderating is done within the spirit of the DSC rules.
Of more interest to me is how long Henry's moderation period going to be. Is it a set time limit, or an open-ended one? I, like others, miss his presence here.
It's not 100% clear to me why he is being moderated, although the reasons for this do not need to be discussed in a forum open to the public. Webteam, is this something that can be discussed by DSC members in the DSC only form? Obviously, non-members won't be able to contribute directly to that discussion although I feel certain that their voices will still be heard.
everton
16-Oct-2006, 10:10
Of more interest to me is how long Henry's moderation period going to be. Is it a set time limit, or an open-ended one? I, like others, miss his presence here.
I hear he got six months but with parole he should be out in four :D
Anyway ... who needs the board, there are other ways to continue chat with friends and debate the issues of the day ... funny enough it all seems to be in a good and friendly spirit as well :smug:
1.
...the mechanism by which the WT moderate posts is somewhat irrelevant, provided the moderating is done within the spirit of the DSC rules.
2.
It's not 100% clear to me why he is being moderated...
Unfortunately point 1 is in direct opposition to point 2. I too am puzzled as to why Henners is being moderated. As far as I am aware, he hasn't contravened any of the listed items in the T&C. I am aware that he is not popular with the MT after events earlier this year.
Meanwhile, another member demonstrates flagrant disregard of T&C items 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and possibly 1.5 and is allowed to post un-moderated. The fact that this abuse of the T&C has been directed towards someone else who is not popular with the MT I find 'interesting'.
I certainly don't believe this is best left unchallenged, hushed up, done by PM or email, etc. This is a discussion forum, after all, and this matter is definitely worthy of discussion.
weeksyracing
16-Oct-2006, 10:54
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnn i don't believe some of you guys....
the guy has been 'moderated' for what the people who you PAID and VOTED in as MT members for the good of the club... .they have not moderated him because they were bored or throwing the toys out of the pram, they will have done it for the good of DSC...
you ALL voted for these people and entrusted them with this task.... now they enforce it, you start moaning like 5 year olds.
Sigh.
Stu748R
16-Oct-2006, 10:57
Guys,
I never like getting involved in club politics but this doesn't feel at all right.It is well known that i am good friends with Henners and therefore wont pass any comment on his passion for this club but to stop debate is setting us all on a rather difficult path and when informed and moderate members such as Rally and 749er to name but a few,put their points of veiw as they have and as well as they have then it is time to rethink, reconsider and reveiw core values.
Debate and sometimes opposition to various issues, as annoying as it might be should be incouraged as this is the sign of a healthy club ,any club veto should only be used as a last resort and with full transparency and benefit to all the members.
MT please !!!, this is now getting to the heart and minds of the moderate in this wonderfull club
Welcome to the 'Ducati unsporting club'..
Its like a playground here at the moment.."But sir,he said blah blah wibble.."
Anyone who comes and views this board with a view to becoming a member,must be wetting themselves at some of the stuff that is going on..
Moggers@behindthebikeshed.com
actually - this is a PUBLIC forum as anyone can register - you dont have to be a member of the DSC to particpate.
Could this be the death of the DSC Online?
I hope not.
Khushy
unmoderated and far more sensible!
Khushy
weeksyracing
16-Oct-2006, 11:30
actually - this is a PUBLIC forum as anyone can register - you dont have to be a member of the DSC to particpate.
Could this be the death of the DSC Online?
I hope not.
Khushy
Agreed, but
a. If you're not a MEMBER of the club, surely you have to accept they can decide whether to allow you to post.
b. You sign up to the rules and T&C's in advance.
c. The members vote in the MT and WT etc....
God it gets on my nerves when people who pay nothing expect everything as their right, and complain when someone who does pay complains about them !
Hah !
Thank you non-member weeksyracing ;)
Perhaps your alter ego weeksy2 could make a comment too ?
rcgbob44
16-Oct-2006, 11:47
Unless something is personnally downright rude and offensive let people have their say.
So lets get Henry back on here and stop this childish title tatle, jesus H, he`s one of the biggest supporters of the club and "HE`s" being moderated, I don`t think so!
We don`t need this in the club, ok I can understand if something nasty and vindictive is said, then yes lets moderate but lets put things into perspective and grow up.
weeksyracing
16-Oct-2006, 11:51
Unless something is personnally downright rude and offensive let people have their say.
So lets get Henry back on here and stop this childish title tatle, jesus H, he`s one of the biggest supporters of the club and "HE`s" being moderated, I don`t think so!
We don`t need this in the club, ok I can understand if something nasty and vindictive is said, then yes lets moderate but lets put things into perspective and grow up.
biggest suppporters ? he's not even paid his £25..
p.s. i believe i AM a member, but my old username has the roundel... i can't find that password.
everton
16-Oct-2006, 11:53
God it gets on my nerves when people who pay nothing expect everything as their right, and complain when someone who does pay complains about them !
Unless something is personnally downright rude and offensive let people have their say.
So lets get Henry back on here and stop this childish title tatle, jesus H, he`s one of the biggest supporters of the club and "HE`s" being moderated, I don`t think so!
We don`t need this in the club, ok I can understand if something nasty and vindictive is said, then yes lets moderate but lets put things into perspective and grow up.
Guys ... I very much consider Henry as a mate and I know where he is coming from ... however he is not a member of the DSC :(
I am not supporting or defending him but mentioning this for clarification.
However, we all want clarification of several things - once that is achieved we may see Henners, and a few others, returning to the club!
I am happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong... but I believe Henners is not allowed re-join the DSC.
1.
2.
Unfortunately point 1 is in direct opposition to point 2. I too am puzzled as to why Henners is being moderated. As far as I am aware, he hasn't contravened any of the listed items in the T&C. I am aware that he is not popular with the MT after events earlier this year.
Meanwhile, another member demonstrates flagrant disregard of T&C items 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and possibly 1.5 and is allowed to post un-moderated. The fact that this abuse of the T&C has been directed towards someone else who is not popular with the MT I find 'interesting'.
I certainly don't believe this is best left unchallenged, hushed up, done by PM or email, etc. This is a discussion forum, after all, and this matter is definitely worthy of discussion.
Mike
I've just deleted a long and unwieldy reply I was making. I'll just break it down to the essence.
When free speech is a right, it is the responsibility of anyone using that right to consider the wider consequences of using it. I believe that people don't always take that responsibility seriously enough.
As for the member that was flagrantly abusing the T&Cs, I certainly hope that the WT consider moderation, as those posts were completely out of order.
One last thing, I believe that the Club's reputation is of paramount importance. Short of gross financial mismanagement and misconduct on the part of the MT (for which I have seen no evidence), I feel that continued public criticism of the MT is NOT good for the club. That's what AGMs, EGMs and the process of voting MT members are for, to steer the club where it should be going without dragging its name through the mud.
I feel that continued public criticism of the MT is good for the club.
are you sure thats what you mean to be saying? Because I am not sure and don't want to see you misrepresent yourself :-)
One last thing, I believe that the Club's reputation is of paramount importance. Short of gross financial mismanagement and misconduct on the part of the MT (for which I have seen no evidence), I feel that continued public criticism of the MT is good for the club. That's what AGMs, EGMs and the process of voting MT members are for, to steer the club where it should be going without dragging its name through the mud.
I'd like to agree with you. Really I would. But when people with far greater patience and commitment than I try to make a difference at AGMs, joining the MT etc, end up being ousted from the club entirely then you have to think that there's something wrong and it needs to be brought out into the open.
everton
16-Oct-2006, 12:22
I'd like to agree with you. Really I would. But when people with far greater patience and commitment than I try to make a difference at AGMs, joining the MT etc, end up being ousted from the club entirely then you have to think that there's something wrong and it needs to be brought out into the open.
Let's play devil's advocate here Mike ... what about all the time, effort and expense all the current members of the MT have put into this club?
Let's play devil's advocate here Mike ... what about all the time, effort and expense all the current members of the MT have put into this club?
to be applauded, I am very grateful, but no one has a monopoly on good ideas
Agreed, but
a. If you're not a MEMBER of the club, surely you have to accept they can decide whether to allow you to post.
b. You sign up to the rules and T&C's in advance.
c. The members vote in the MT and WT etc....
Funnily enough I have been flamed by a someone who if they were not a member of the MT then, they are now. Didn't see them being moderated. I just don't like double standards.
Let's play devil's advocate here Mike ... what about all the time, effort and expense all the current members of the MT have put into this club?
I do apologise if I sound like a complete ingrate. I love the DSC and its existance is entirely due to the efforts of the founding members and MT. That being said, if 'there's trouble in Denmark' then do you just allow it to destroy the very thing that makes the club great?
rcgbob44
16-Oct-2006, 12:31
Weeksy
Your right! off with his head.
So! is he allowed to re join or not?
are you sure thats what you mean to be saying? Because I am not sure and don't want to see you misrepresent yourself :-)
Sorry! Edited the post to include that little word that means so much :)
Sorry! Edited the post to include that little word that means so much :)
thought so! I can see where you are coming from, and you have a lot of good points, but some of the stuff which seems to be going on seems a touch draconian
dickieducati
16-Oct-2006, 13:18
to be applauded, I am very grateful, but no one has a monopoly on good ideas
top shout.
funny how just one comment can sum up the majority of the problems we are having at the moment.
doogalman
16-Oct-2006, 13:20
I prefer to ride my bikes than add a comment to this thread.:rolleyes:
I don't know Henners
but as most have said, for the majority of the time he seams to post good things.
However all I have seen of late is a very anti and personal attack mentality towards those who run the DSC. so I can live with out that.
its interesting that every one keeps speaking about the right to free speech.
when I joined the club I was not made aware that I could put down whatever I choose or think ?
this world is full of "I have the right to do this, and I have the right to do that"
well what happened to having a Duty.
A duty to be pleasant and fair minded.
I think it is time for stricter control of the message board
Stu748R
16-Oct-2006, 21:33
If,like lots of people,you clicked "last" on this thread then go to back to "first" and read again.COZ,
now we have a debate...............
Bottom line in the Terms and conditions that all users of the board agree to as a condition of using the site:
"The Club reserves the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."
Plainly visible in the 'Forum Rules' section (button on main bar) also:
http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/rules.php
Cheers - Frank
Frank,
There's no mention of moderation in the above????? Surely Henners can be allowed to post then? This does mean you could delete the post immediately obviously, would this be correct?
VanDaMauler
17-Oct-2006, 00:08
What a load of childish bollox...
What a load of childish bollox...
Which bit Van? Henners being moderated or the membership finding it unpalatable?
VanDaMauler
17-Oct-2006, 00:15
All of it, its like play time at Kindergarden...
And there's me thinking that you of all people would have some sympathy for someone being censored. :p
aka.eric
17-Oct-2006, 00:27
Frank,
There's no mention of moderation in the above????? Surely Henners can be allowed to post then? This does mean you could delete the post immediately obviously, would this be correct?
This annoys me,if a persons not a member its got sod all to do with them.Posting should be a privilege of membership.Hopefully one day Henners will be an active member again,but the above reply is only "fanning the flames",for nonsense on other sites.:-
"I get the feeling one might be going down soon the way the politics and the personal agendas are going.......It's become a bit of a joke over there sadly."
__________________
aka JPM
MARTIN H
17-Oct-2006, 01:47
This annoys me,if a persons not a member its got sod all to do with them.Posting should be a privilege of membership.Hopefully one day Henners will be an active member again,but the above reply is only "fanning the flames",for nonsense on other sites.:-
"I get the feeling one might be going down soon the way the politics and the personal agendas are going.......It's become a bit of a joke over there sadly."
__________________
aka JPM
The sad thing is that Jons comments about it becoming a bit of a joke over here is pretty accurate. You may think its nonsense that the DSC is seen that way but anyone looking on this forum for the first time is going to have that impression. The weekend before last DuN had a meeting of approx 50 Ducatis up at hartside, I was talking to a group of lads that I had not met before and they were telling me how they had found the DuN website but had also come across this site. I didnt ask the exact details but they basically said they had looked here and everyone was falling out and having a go at each other and they had no interest in that nonsense.
Compared to a year or two ago I feel like I get very little from the DSC but I renewed my membership anyway. I dont really know if I renewed because I hoped things would improve here or whether it was that I feel I have already had more than my moneys worth previously. This club and more recently DuN has enabled me to meet a lot of great people many of which I now see and ride with on a regular basis. I have received loads of help and technical advice etc from many members past and present. I've also tried to help out myself when I am able to. Sadly a few of the folk that welcomed me and made me decide to join are no longer members now and nowhere near as active on the forum as they were. I'm certain that if I had found the DSC now rather than a few years ago I would have probably not joined and looked elswhere instead. If it annoys you that non members/ex members are still having their say then fair enough. But surely the fact that they still come here and have an opinion means they still care about the DSC? I think I would be more concerned with why people such as Henners and JPM are no longer members.
Its still a great club but not half as good as it used to be.
I agree with Martin H, I think its a real shame that the club has descended into cat fights and ego bashing diatribes,it was really good when it started up, though it has possibly become the monster it was trying to escape from in the DOC.
Maybe it'll ressurect itself in the future,unlike martin I doubt whether I'll rejoin as I get all I need from the contacts through DuN and the focus of the Dsc seems to have moved to trackdays and racing.
I'll still use this site as a source of information,though to be brutally honest its much less useful now than it has been in the past as the main postings of the site seem to be caught up in the petty personalities that overwhelm the day to day posts.Whats also a shame is that the people leaving seem to be the ones who have been here the longest.
Whether you believe the often stated fact that most Dsc members dont use this site ,(I find that hard to believe myself) this is the way most people will encounter the club initially and the impression given now is not the same as the exuberant,enthusiastic, friendly and knowledgeable feeling I got from this site in 2001 when I first joined. There are probably many reasons for this and its not worth debating these here,but I do thing the club need to do something to address these issues before it irrevocably damages itself and fades away.
I do hope all of these problems are solvable, but at what cost to the current memebership?
This annoys me,if a persons not a member its got sod all to do with them.Posting should be a privilege of membership.Hopefully one day Henners will be an active member again,but the above reply is only "fanning the flames",for nonsense on other sites.:-
"I get the feeling one might be going down soon the way the politics and the personal agendas are going.......It's become a bit of a joke over there sadly."
__________________
aka JPM
Eric
This board allows members and non members to have an opinion and this is what Jon has shared. I am unclear why you have singled this post out at this point in time.
Jon has been involved on this forum for over 5 years and has been involved with and contributed to the DSC in many ways. He choses not to be a member at prsent as he does not feel he gets any value from it, that is his choice similar to many others that have done likewise. Jon still attends and helps to organise events which include DSC members and ducati enthusiasts including DD related activities.
I am uncertain as to why you highlighted his comments which were fair and representative of what had been posted by many other members and non members alike.
As for quoting from a post on DUN, maybe it would have been more appropriate to have pointed out that the post on DUN was started by someone with no connection to DSC that had been over here and was suprised by what he saw. There were a few comments from individuals that have been disheartened by DSC but also a few comments requesting that it not be discussed. No flames were fanned, indeed the thread sank quite happily with no bitching or nastiness.
It would appear that your quoting on here will fan more flames than the original comment ever would have.
Martin couldn't agree with your sentiments more. I think that the main problem is that the MT have lost touch with what is happening at grassroots level at meets around the regions - I can't remember the last time that someone from the MT attended a meet in Surrey, when they used to. I realise that they do a great job for the club, but to who's benefit? This censorship issue is ridiculous and it seems as though there is more interest in how we are perceived outside rather than internally to members. Henry, who is a friend, may speak his mind sometimes, but the thing is that he, and others like Dibble and JPM, care a lot about this club and should actively be encouraged to rejoin. My fear is that people, myself included, will not renew when it comes to renewal time because we've lost faith in the direction the club is going.
Martin, Webby, Lily and Dave have summed everything up nicely for me so saves me a lot of time posting the same response.I'm still here paid up or not (remember anyone can post for free, that in fact goes for most forums out there) I'm here because I do care, I'm not very PC and I'm truthfully blunt at times that's just me, why beat around the bush?There are problems, everyone who looks here can see them... so lets fix them
I did begin to agree with Martin H until he said
"Compared to a year or two ago I feel like I get very little from the DSC" well Matin H what exactly have you put into this club?
I did begin to agree with Martin H until he said
"Compared to a year or two ago I feel like I get very little from the DSC" well Matin H what exactly have you put into this club?
Let me answer this.
What would be the answer from 90% of members?
However Martin has helped organise Raid the Lakes andd many other ride outs. He has also driven 50 miles to help people out with electrical problems.
The disaffected North West group have been active before in the past. JPM and Lily organised the WInter Warmer, JPM organised the unofficial DSC Oulton track Day and have attended other DSC meets down south.
My contributions have been more in line with writing articles for Pronto about riding Ducati's (France, Morocco, charity ride Lands End/John O Groats) but i've been prepared to contribute in some way.
SteveM has organised the North West Mega meets.
The question isn't just about Henners, its the whole situation within the club which desperately needs resolving.
MartinH hit the nail on the head, the DSC isn't what it used to be.
Its not just the North West region either.
Why did the entire Scottish region debunk?
There are still a lot of really good people in the DSC, but the current trend is a very sad downward spiral.
I don't think anyone is going out to deliberately cause trouble, they are just reacting to legitimate concerns which have been aired many times.
MARTIN H
17-Oct-2006, 12:27
Cheers Shaun, was just about to reply when someone came to the door. Actually it was nearer 75 miles one way! In fact because I had been given wrong directions it was a 170 mile round trip :lol:
Joking aside, I have done what I can where possible to help out other members of the DSC and DuN. Yes theres the already mentioned trip to sort a members dead bike who needed it for a fast approaching track day. No big deal and the members concerned had previously (and since) been very helpful to me in a number of similar ways. That to me is what this club should be about. Have also helped out in similar minor ways to members I had never met until some time later at Raid the Lakes where they bought me enough drinks to turn me from a mildly idiotic drunk to an inchorent wreck.:lol: Again at RTL I had to pay someone to keep my business running whilst I took time off to help with the organisation and route leading etc. At the last minute I took the Friday off as well to meet up with the southern contigent and lead them an interesting way up to the lakes. Fair enough its no big deal but it was for the benefit of the DSC.
Over the last few years I have made a point of going over to every Ducati rider I see at the usual bike meeting places (Devils bridge, Hartside, Hawes etc etc) and telling them about DSC and DuN. Lately though I do warn them a little about this website and tell them to ignore any spats they see and just look for the good stuff. A few of the people I have informed about DSC have joined but did not seem to hang around too long, makes you wonder why!?
Maybe I and other northerners can be perceived as not having much to do with the club as we dont do the 5 to 600 mile round trip to the DSC and DD events in the South? But there again how many of the Southerners would make the trip up to Croft or Knockhill ? Not many thats for sure! This is definitely a southern based club which was only recently reinforced as such by the thread about having a meeting to talk through the problems. Somewhere central was suggested and the solution was a location near Oxford! :D I recall once being informed that the centre of the UK was somehere up near Shap in the Lake district (350 miles or so north of Oxford :confused: ) Though I suppose as all the Scottish members have now gone it doesnt count?
To be honest I feel more than a little embarassed at having to type a justification for me being a DSC member. I am saddened the way things seem to be going here as all the DSC members I have ever met I have liked.
Maybe the question should have been what havent you done for the DSC! So far I have pretty much avoided being involved in all the arguing and falling out that goes on. And the ridiculous nonsense where members verbally threaten each other both on the froum and by PM. All things that cheapen the DSC and if not stopped will turn all the good members away.
Its a sorry state of affairs :(
The centre of gravity of the club is without doubt in the South, you either accept that, don't accept it, or do something about it.
The North South divide is alive and well in some peoples perceptions for all sorts of reasons, either get over it or get some therapy.
Ray.
DSC Yorkshire region.
everton
17-Oct-2006, 12:53
The great North/South divide debate eh!
Interesting reading here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-South_divide_in_the_United_Kingdom
The centre of gravity of the club is without doubt in the South, you either accept that, don't accept it, or do something about it.
The North South divide is alive and well in some peoples perceptions for all sorts of reasons, either get over it or get some therapy.
We did!!! We used to moan about it so we sorted ourselves out and now we just take the mickey in a lighthearted way because it no longer really has any bearing on what we do whether it's north south or Mars
And thanks, but I don't feel I need any therapy, doing just fine over here :)
But I must have missed the bit about North South divide, I believe Martin was just providing some example of why it may be percieved that he is not 'giving' as much to the club
No reference to the DSC context though:lol:
aka.eric
17-Oct-2006, 13:00
Eric
This board allows members and non members to have an opinion and this is what Jon has shared. I am unclear why you have singled this post out at this point in time.
Jon has been involved on this forum for over 5 years and has been involved with and contributed to the DSC in many ways. He choses not to be a member at prsent as he does not feel he gets any value from it, that is his choice similar to many others that have done likewise. Jon still attends and helps to organise events which include DSC members and ducati enthusiasts including DD related activities.
I am uncertain as to why you highlighted his comments which were fair and representative of what had been posted by many other members and non members alike.
As for quoting from a post on DUN, maybe it would have been more appropriate to have pointed out that the post on DUN was started by someone with no connection to DSC that had been over here and was suprised by what he saw. There were a few comments from individuals that have been disheartened by DSC but also a few comments requesting that it not be discussed. No flames were fanned, indeed the thread sank quite happily with no bitching or nastiness.
It would appear that your quoting on here will fan more flames than the original comment ever would have.
If an individual chooses not to be a member because "he does not feel he gets any value from it",then thats what he should say,not make derogatory comments about was is still the most informative,well organised Ducati club/site available,in my opinion.Maybe its not perfect neither is the world but,it exists because a small number of people give up a large amount of their time,and the membership pay subs.I and no doubt a lot more folks a grateful.
If an individual chooses not to be a member because "he does not feel he gets any value from it",then thats what he should say,not make derogatory comments about was is still the most informative,well organised Ducati club/site available,in my opinion.Maybe its not perfect neither is the world but,it exists because a small number of people give up a large amount of their time,and the membership pay subs.I and no doubt a lot more folks a grateful.
Can you please show me wher JPM made a derogatory comment in the post you originally quoted.
I believe this is what he posted and you quoted:
Frank,
There's no mention of moderation in the above????? Surely Henners can be allowed to post then? This does mean you could delete the post immediately obviously, would this be correct?
This is actually a question for clarification and in no way derogatory.
Sadly whether you feel he should say that as he is not a member he cannot make comments is irrelevent as the forum is open to all to have an opinion. When that changes then non members can be told what they can and cannot do and your personal views will be satisfied. In the past the majority of members have opted to retain the forum as open to both members and non members alike.
Jon is still trying to add value to this club irrespecitive of his membership status
Ray/Everton,
its not just a case of a north/south divide, especially as Ray looks after Yorkshire. Everton originates from err..........Anfield i think:lol:
I have argued against the north/souht factor with JPM and spoke my mind at the AGM that i wouldn't expect someone from darn sarf to organise stuff in the north.
North/south divide is just red herring, it is not the root problem of ongoing concern.
Davieravie
17-Oct-2006, 13:48
well Matin H what exactly have you put into this club?
He gave me a couple of fags at lunchtime when i had lost mine at RTL!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)
aka.eric
17-Oct-2006, 14:01
Can you please show me wher JPM made a derogatory comment in the post you originally quoted.
I believe this is what he posted and you quoted:
Frank,
There's no mention of moderation in the above????? Surely Henners can be allowed to post then? This does mean you could delete the post immediately obviously, would this be correct?
This is actually a question for clarification and in no way derogatory.
Sadly whether you feel he should say that as he is not a member he cannot make comments is irrelevent as the forum is open to all to have an opinion. When that changes then non members can be told what they can and cannot do and your personal views will be satisfied. In the past the majority of members have opted to retain the forum as open to both members and non members alike.
Jon is still trying to add value to this club irrespecitive of his membership status
As we are both aware,the derogatory comments were "I get the feeling one might be going down soon the way the politics and the personal agendas are going..........its become a bit of a joke there sadly".
But obviously this is only "trying to add value to the club".
The club will continue to grow because of the work put in by the MT,Webteam etc and the financial support of the members.I do find it sad that non members can post,I believe it should be a privilege of membership.
As we are both aware,the derogatory comments were "I get the feeling one might be going down soon the way the politics and the personal agendas are going..........its become a bit of a joke there sadly".
But obviously this is only "trying to add value to the club".
The club will continue to grow because of the work put in by the MT,Webteam etc and the financial support of the members.I do find it sad that non members can post,I believe it should be a privilege of membership.
So based on a post in this thread, you went hunting onto another forum and then combined two different posts taken out of context due to not posting the contents of the rest of that thread and decided to post it here to prove what point?
I personally do not feel that his comments on the other forum were derogatory and that's my view as a paid up member of the dsc. Taken in the context of the rest of that thread they were a personal view of how he sees things on this forum.
The club continues to grow because 'people' put in effort, irrespective of whether they are MT or webteam.
He gave me a couple of fags at lunchtime when i had lost mine at RTL!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)
:lol: :lol:
Eric last year I was indeed a member, and as stated in another thread I was even awarded by the MT at last years dinner dance for the number of posts in one year on this very forum, in excess of 5500 currently and I've been posting here for over 5 years.I have an opinion which you do not clearly agree with which is fair enough, but I'm still here posting even under the current grey clouds.To say you need to pay to access the forum would be commercial suicide for the DSC, would you pay money towards something and not know what you would get for your money?Truth of the matter is I don't have access to DSC Topics (I believe???) which is for paid up members only, so there is an area just for people who have contributed on a financial level. So there is some segregation but not a complete ban as you would like.My comments on UpNorth have been taken out of context by yourself, as has since been highlighted a thread was started by a non-DSC member who was shocked at the threads on this board and the problems and friction amongst it's posters, I made a comment which as I have stated earlier I'm not very PC so forgive me there, it was actually a bit tongue in cheek if you knew me you would understand my humour.All this is doing is adding more fuel to the already burning fire at the moment, something I'm keen to put out and resolve, if all the issues from the last AGM (did you go?) are finally resolved and the MT accept the new constitution that's been put before them, and the running of the club, the funds become more transparent to it's members I'd rejoin in a flash until such time I'll keep my 20 quid or so and put it to good use with riders for health (oh I did that earlier in the year when I lost a bet with TP on the board) or maybe the air ambulance service.Jon
paragraphs wouldn't go amiss ;)
paragraphs wouldn't go amiss ;)
:lol: It's all a blur ... calls himself a nerd too! Sheesh!
I can't even follow this thread anymore, and speaking as the official DSC thread hijacker I've lost count of all the tangents that have been 'explored'!
:lol: :lol:
MARTIN H
17-Oct-2006, 14:18
He gave me a couple of fags at lunchtime when i had lost mine at RTL!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)
I wondered why I hadnt seen you since then! :lol:
Davieravie
17-Oct-2006, 14:21
I wondered why I hadnt seen you since then! :lol:
Anyways, it was 2 Silk Cut you gave me, thats equivalent to a butt rolie of my Regal King Size ;)
I type everything in with paragraphs but something with IE on this new work lappy and the new boards screws up... honest! I can't even click todays posts or any of the forum buttons at the top of the page they all redirect me to my control panel! It's all a wild blurrrrr...... :D :D :D
MARTIN H
17-Oct-2006, 14:23
Anyways, it was 2 Silk Cut you gave me, thats equivalent to a butt rolie of my Regal King Size ;)
Jeeez How can you remember they were silk cut? :confused: :D
but I'm still here posting even under the current grey clouds
this is what winds me up about all these anti moan threads.
the only people who keep going on about how bad things are, are people who have said they don't want to be apart of the party.
The DD stuff can easily bee ignored now.
which is great
and I don't believe the DOC have gone under as they have member only posting.
Granted I don't think it is a ideal way of going but it would stop the constant non member sniping
I type everything in with paragraphs but something with IE on this new work lappy and the new boards screws up... honest! I can't even click todays posts or any of the forum buttons at the top of the page they all redirect me to my control panel! It's all a wild blurrrrr...... :D :D
Uh huh, yep :rolleye:
:p :lol:
this is what winds me up about all these anti moan threads.
the only people who keep going on about how bad things are, are people who have said they don't want to be apart of the party.
The DD stuff can easily bee ignored now.
which is great
and I don't believe the DOC have gone under as they have member only posting.
Granted I don't think it is a ideal way of going but it would stop the constant non member sniping
I have to say that I am not convinced the sniping is just coming from non members and tbh I am not always sure it's snipng. Just because someone approaches things differently to try and improve stuff doesn't make it sniping.
Keefer if there's no grey clouds why are there threads about moderation? this thread about henners not being able to post? who will run DD next year? the meeting on the 18th November to "resolve DD issues" this is a small handful of current hot potatoes!! Ignorance is bliss to some and the rose tinted glasses are still there for most but some like me want to resolve things, I've offered to help and I know lots of people have offered also but we're still here arguing.
Plenty of grey clouds in my life
but the problem with a few people around here is they don't like the way things are done so they want to change them.
I as others are happy to see henners toe the line
I don't have a problem with the DD so no issue for me or even many who race in it
You sound like a Man U fan who gets upset because someone buys the club ?
I mean I buy a burger at Mc D's but I don't feel I have a say in how the company is run
Everyone is welcome sure, but as others have seen the wheel will keep turning whether some stay or go
I type everything in with paragraphs but something with IE on this new work lappy and the new boards screws up... honest! I can't even click todays posts or any of the forum buttons at the top of the page they all redirect me to my control panel! It's all a wild blurrrrr...... :D :D :D
I'm always on hand to give IT advice Jon:lol:
God help me if it comes to that eh Shaun!!
Davieravie
17-Oct-2006, 16:04
Jeeez How can you remember they were silk cut? :confused: :D
Because I was nearly violently sick after smoking them! :lol:
GsxrAge
17-Oct-2006, 20:17
Plenty of grey clouds in my life
but the problem with a few people around here is they don't like the way things are done so they want to change them.
I as others are happy to see henners toe the line
I don't have a problem with the DD so no issue for me or even many who race in it
You sound like a Man U fan who gets upset because someone buys the club ?
I mean I buy a burger at Mc D's but I don't feel I have a say in how the company is run
Everyone is welcome sure, but as others have seen the wheel will keep turning whether some stay or go
What do you mean by toe the line ?
So what your saying is that as long as you post things that does not question the running of this club or members of the Mt everyone would be happy ?
I am sorry mate but if you don't question things you don't get improvements, which is the one thing that most people agree with !
Also it has been said that this is a public forum so everyone is free to post and in doing so ask questions and even point out faults, which as far as I see it is why henners is being censored !
Other members like Jpm dibble and even myself were Paid up members and got disgruntled with the way the DSC was being run and the lack of benifits you had for your money.
Perhaps what you want is for people like me who no longer own a Ducati should leave and never visit this forum again !
I might not own a duke anymore but I did make quite a few freinds on here and will continue to keep upto date with them through the DSC !
So lets stop censoring peoples posts and only remove posts if members complain to MT this would also make the MT's life alot easier !
Age
sorry about any bad spellings I hope my spelligs have not upset anyone :o
MARTIN H
17-Oct-2006, 20:44
Because I was nearly violently sick after smoking them! :lol:
Nowt to do with the 3 bottles of Buckfast you had just polished off then? ;)
I can't help but notice the absence of any MT/WT involvement in this debate. As far as I can see, that last 'official' post was Frank's post #19 (http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/showpost.php?p=351257&postcount=19) some two days ago (and all that said was 'Read the T&C').
I've been trying to think of why this could be. The only options I can come up with is:
The MT think this will 'blow over', i.e. the dissenters will get bored and drop it.
The MT don't place any value on the opinions of the members.
There are 'sponsored' members who are posting MT's opinions on their behalf.
They are composing a response so elaborate that it takes two days to construct.
Whilst I like the image of the whole of the MT with their fingers in their ears going "La la la. We can't hear you" I hope that it's not true.
GsxrAge
17-Oct-2006, 21:00
yeah number 5 would be :
MT can't see a problem as they have got there heads too far up their own backsides !!!!
oops that will get me censored as well now :lol::lol:
dickieducati
17-Oct-2006, 21:12
I can't help but notice the absence of any MT/WT involvement in this debate. As far as I can see, that last 'official' post was Frank's post #19 (http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/showpost.php?p=351257&postcount=19) some two days ago (and all that said was 'Read the T&C').
I've been trying to think of why this could be. The only options I can come up with is:
The MT think this will 'blow over', i.e. the dissenters will get bored and drop it.
The MT don't place any value on the opinions of the members.
There are 'sponsored' members who are posting MT's opinions on their behalf.
They are composing a response so elaborate that it takes two days to construct.
Whilst I like the image of the whole of the MT with their fingers in their ears going "La la la. We can't hear you" I hope that it's not true.
1 and 2 for sure. possibly 3 as well.
they really dont give a flying f.uck.
it will at come up at the AGM as well. lots wil be promised and nothing at all delivered. everyone will realise that to make a change you had to put something in writing 2 years ago and even then if the MT dont think you're suitable it will just get ignored. they'll bang on about openess and tranparency while trying to avoid honest answers and hoping they have covered their tracks.
all they need to do is be open and democratic. but it is beyond them it seems.
[FONT=Arial]and I don't believe the DOC have gone under as they have member only posting.
no they don't ..... especially as I've never been a member and have started their two most sucesful threads for both views and replies ...
i'm a genius ...
All I would like to say on this subject is !
If you were going to WAR who would you want on your side?
Henners 4 me all day long !
mav
I post there too Dibs:D
Rally, you are a restrained gentleman.
Maybe they want to see if this can be the longest thread of the year ;) - that hasnt been removed:lol:
Lots seem to be coming out here.........
I cant lump ALL the MT together - it isnt fair on Psychlist, Flanks, Jools, Lizzie (and posssibly Eamonn) but there seems to be something not quite right in the 'off line' goings on from the other members of the MT
It appears (conjecture) that Henners wont be on his own in the wilderness now - 2 more long standing members are now off to join him it seems (so that will be 2 less on the DD grid next year - well done MT!):rolleyes:
shame you didnt go the whole hog Mr Secretary, and also castigate the other 3 !!!!!!
I post there too Dibs:D
Rally, you are a restrained gentleman.
Maybe they want to see if this can be the longest thread of the year ;) - that hasnt been removed:lol:
Lots seem to be coming out here.........
I cant lump ALL the MT together - it isnt fair on Psychlist, Flanks, Jools, Lizzie (and posssibly Eamonn) but there seems to be something not quite right in the 'off line' goings on from the other members of the MT
It appears (conjecture) that Henners wont be on his own in the wilderness now - 2 more long standing members are now off to join him it seems (so that will be 2 less on the DD grid next year - well done MT!):rolleyes:
shame you didnt go the whole hog Mr Secretary, and also castigate the other 3 !!!!!!
Psychlist, Flanks, Jools, Lizzie (and posssibly Eamonn)
all great people in their own right !
GsxrAge
17-Oct-2006, 22:07
Psychlist, Flanks, Jools, Lizzie (and posssibly Eamonn)
all great people in their own right !
ahhh so what you could be saying is Keep the good MT and throw out the useless tossers :D :D :lol:
ahhh so what you could be saying is Keep the good MT and throw out the useless tossers :D :D :lol:
cant say that Age or i'll be in the "sin bin " next ! lol
mav
Nearly 12000 posts from 4 non members, inc how the club should be run, but i still dont wanna join!
GsxrAge
17-Oct-2006, 22:16
cant say that Age or i'll be in the "sin bin " next ! lol
mav
could be more in the sin bin than those not soon :lol::lol:
Maybe you might sort this out mav by using your management skills ( The heavy mob :lol:)
Age
Nearly 12000 posts from 4 non members, saying how a club should be run!
eliteist!
GsxrAge
17-Oct-2006, 22:17
errr you mean rejoin !!!
Nearly 12000 posts from 4 non members, saying how a club should be run!
and your point being ???
maybe you should view it as 4 commited ex members of this club that it has for various reasons lost ??
do you EVER have anything constructive or positive to say ?? because in all your hundreds of posts I've never seen anything that could be described as such ....
post me a link, go on, prove me wrong !!
eliteist!
Although aint your cheque in the post? :lol:
and your point being ???
maybe you should view it as 4 commited ex members of this club that it has for various reasons lost ??
do you EVER have anything constructive or positive to say ?? because in all your hundreds of posts I've never seen anything that could be described as such ....
post me a link, go on, prove me wrong !!
If you dont like it here, **** off! How that for constructive........as appossed to destructive!.....and i have seen plenty of that from you.
Why stay around? Why not do something about whats going wrong if your so committed?.....You aint lost 6500 posts say your still here....banging on! Do something about it, put yourself up for committee, and expose all these wrong doings! failing that...................... just stay bleeting on and on!
could be more in the sin bin than those not soon :lol::lol:
Maybe you might sort this out mav by using your management skills ( The heavy mob :lol:)
Age
No need for that Age ! we are all here for two reasons
1 you own a Ducati
2 you have a lot of friends on here !
Up to date as a "non" member I have
put £50 behind the counter at JHP I think 4d won that !
Discounted By £325 A few members who came out to the ring!
placed £200 pounds worth of items for a raffel at the AGM
Helped loads of peeps out on here ! including out of hours !
In return I have pretty much a free hand for advertising my trips !
I cant complain
so what have some of the sarcy "members " on her donated?
mav
I can't help but notice the absence of any MT/WT involvement in this debate. As far as I can see, that last 'official' post was Frank's post #19 (http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/showpost.php?p=351257&postcount=19) some two days ago (and all that said was 'Read the T&C').
I've been trying to think of why this could be. The only options I can come up with is:
The MT think this will 'blow over', i.e. the dissenters will get bored and drop it.
The MT don't place any value on the opinions of the members.
There are 'sponsored' members who are posting MT's opinions on their behalf.
They are composing a response so elaborate that it takes two days to construct.Whilst I like the image of the whole of the MT with their fingers in their ears going "La la la. We can't hear you" I hope that it's not true.
You left out:
5. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I posted on another thread about people tarring all members of the MT with the same brush.
Some of the MT have had very heated and very public disagreements with some of the members and have usually paid a very public price for it by being vilified extensively on this board. In some cases I wholeheartedly agree that those MT members have been very clumsy in trying to deal with whatever situation they were trying to deal with and have deserved a public kicking. Furthermore, I have told those MT members that to their face.
However, lumping the whole of the MT together as one entity with only "the party line' point of view is disingenuous.
You can read my post on the Regional Organisers thread that states my aim when elected to the MT was to be 'a voice for the membership on the MT rather than the other way round'. I have tried very hard to uphold that aim and I have also tried to be scrupulously objective in my judgement of the many issues and grievances that the membership see fit to air. This includes very blunt dialogue with others on the management team with whom I have disagreed. Like anybody else in the world, my opinions differ from the next man and this means that I sometimes agree with the consensus view of the MT and sometimes I don't. If I don't agree with the direction, method or approach taken then I speak my mind and try to persuade people of my point of view. That, to my mind, is the adult way.
What we have now is a situation where open season has been declared, by a few, on anybody who has tried to further the interests of the DSC membership by having the temerity to put themselves forward as an MT member. I put myself forward to try and help people have a good time on Ducatis, not to be an 'Aunt Sally' for anyone who thinks they can take a pop.
I am not alone in being an independantly minded member of the MT, some of us, however, just want to get on with the job that the membership elected us to do without being 'guilty by association'. Unfortunately, we have to deal with misguided assertions, like the one above, that we're too idle to be bothered by members concerns, that we couldn't care less, that we have to have people in our pocket to post for us because we're too stupid to think up a reply for ourselves.
The truth is that nearly everything that an MT member posts these days is ripped to shreds. It will be interesting to watch this post being publicly disembowelled.
To the point. My personal view on the whole subject on who should be allowed to post on this board is clear.
The board is paid for by the members of the DSC, in my view that makes them the users who should benefit the most from their usage of this board. However, I would hate to see this board become closed to any non-members who wish to use it and have argued that it should be available to all. On all the DSC rideouts that I've been on everybody has been welcome whatever they ride and I'd like to see this ethos maintained in the virtual world.
In my view, members have a right to use the board as they see fit and we extend that as a privilege to non-members (not that many would see that as a valued privilege right now). People who are non-members have chosen to be so either because they haven't decided to join yet, or they don't see any value in joining, or they have joined and found no point in renewing or they have left because they are disaffected. That's fine, no club can be all things to all men and if you don't want to be a member, then don't be.
As to moderation, people think that they have a right to say anything that they want to say on web forums, regardless of whether they are a member or not. This is not true. Moderation has to be in place to stop the board descending into a Visordown clone, stop pointless interpersonal feuds or worse, stop it from becoming a cesspit of bigotry.
Difficult job, moderation. One man's moderation is anothers censorship but on the whole I think it works quite well. People are not moderated for no reason at all and are given fair warning that their post has been found to be offensive or in breach of forum rules (or reported by another user).
It works both ways. People who have complained about finding their posts being moderated have also, if they care to admit it, been protected from attacks by others being moderated in turn, or having offensive posts directed at them removed. As an MT member I see some of the removed posts and some are sickening in their personal attacks. Do the webteam always get it right? Of course not, nobody's judgement is infallible, but from what I've seen they try hard to make sure there are no double standards.
What do you mean by toe the line ?
So what your saying is that as long as you post things that does not question the running of this club or members of the Mt everyone would be happy ?
I am sorry mate but if you don't question things you don't get improvements, which is the one thing that most people agree with !
Also it has been said that this is a public forum so everyone is free to post and in doing so ask questions and even point out faults, which as far as I see it is why henners is being censored !
Other members like Jpm dibble and even myself were Paid up members and got disgruntled with the way the DSC was being run and the lack of benifits you had for your money.
Perhaps what you want is for people like me who no longer own a Ducati should leave and never visit this forum again !
I might not own a duke anymore but I did make quite a few freinds on here and will continue to keep upto date with them through the DSC !
So lets stop censoring peoples posts and only remove posts if members complain to MT this would also make the MT's life alot easier !
Age
sorry about any bad spellings I hope my spelligs have not upset anyone :o
may as well let people like Jewel back on and get posting as well hay
amazing people join
have a tantrum because its not how they like it
then stick around to sling Mud
why you still here.
we never had a vote. and I mean off the board
to ask if we all need saving.
you all take it on yourselves to come threw on your white horses.
and save us from what ?
I hope the MT have the balls to pull this thread 2
it serves no purpose other than to massage the huge egos of a few
who continue to snipe at the MT
GsxrAge
17-Oct-2006, 22:32
put yourself up for committee, and expose all these wrong doings!
I think Henners has already tried that mate and look how he's been treated.
I will continue to post on here as I can as it is a public Forum but as for missing my Duke ownership then no I aint as there seems to be too many owners who think they are VIP's.
Mav is a fine example of what he has tried to do for the DSC but is constantly in a battle with MT because he is a Buisness but ffs he is trying to give DSC members/users Discounts.
But MT cannot see that He has been trying to pass on the benifits of his HARD work to all of us.
Age
I think Henners has already tried that mate and look how he's been treated.
I will continue to post on here as I can as it is a public Forum but as for missing my Duke ownership then no I aint as there seems to be too many owners who think they are VIP's.
Mav is a fine example of what he has tried to do for the DSC but is constantly in a battle with MT because he is a Buisness but ffs he is trying to give DSC members/users Discounts.
But MT cannot see that He has been trying to pass on the benifits of his HARD work to all of us.
Age
Mav is possibly one of the most enthusiastic people that contribute to the club and the site.
Similarly, you can find many instances where Henners has made a positive contribution. For example, instigating the recent trips to France and the bike show in Milan. I believe he also organised and led the Surrey group rideout in January. As has been mentioned he sponsors a team in DD. So for me, if his contribution does not fit the mould of
"Because you want to ride, attend events,do some travelling and track days....
I don't know what does.
I think Henners has already tried that mate and look how he's been treated.
I will continue to post on here as I can as it is a public Forum but as for missing my Duke ownership then no I aint as there seems to be too many owners who think they are VIP's.
Mav is a fine example of what he has tried to do for the DSC but is constantly in a battle with MT because he is a Buisness but ffs he is trying to give DSC members/users Discounts.
But MT cannot see that He has been trying to pass on the benifits of his HARD work to all of us.
Age
Age in a way you are right, "But" I have taken the **** sometimes too (Like others on here!
It's a two way street!
To me as a one man band it is very important to Give customer satisfaction
(customers) make pay days possible.....
The reason I left (did not renew my membership) was simple
I drove 300 miles round trip to the dinner dance last year , I had said I would not make the Dinner but would make it for a drink
300 miles is a long way for a drink seeing as I dont drink (due to the miles i do)
you would say that the only reason for going was to support the club and meet a few peeps names to faces!
I took her indoors with me and introduced her to quite a few peeps
at that time Tim (Rattler) was speaking with Mr Bushell, I duly waited my turn to speak with Mr Bushell, when they had finished talking , I moved in with my hand held firmly out to introduce myself and my partner, at this point MR Bushell turned his back on me and walked away !
My Partner and I had never been treated so rudely !
A PM a few days l8ter from MR Bushel to say he did not even no I was there was sent.
apology accepeted by me, as I know he is a very busy man
But ,
I know all my customers, and I go out of my way to know who I'm dealing with etc etc
so the reason I did not renew was I felt I was not accepted as a customer of the DSC..
Mav
GsxrAge
17-Oct-2006, 22:55
Age in a way you are right, "But" I have taken the **** sometimes too (Like others on here!
It's a two way street!
To me as a one man band it is very important to Give customer satisfaction
(customers) make pay days possible.....
The reason I left (did not renew my membership) was simple
I drove 300 miles round trip to the dinner dance last year , I had said I would not make the Dinner but would make it for a drink
300 miles is a long way for a drink seeing as I dont drink (due to the miles i do)
you would say that the only reason for going was to support the club and meet a few peeps names to faces!
I took her indoors with me and introduced her to quite a few peeps
at that time Tim (Rattler) was speaking with Mr Bushell, I duly waited my turn to speak with Mr Bushell, when they had finished talking , I moved in with my hand held firmly out to introduce myself and my partner, at this point MR Bushell turned his back on me and walked away !
My Partner and I had never been treated so rudely !
A PM a few days l8ter from MR Bushel to say he did not even no I was there was sent.
apology accepeted by me, as I know he is a very busy man
But ,
I know all my customers, and I go out of my way to know who I'm dealing with etc etc
so the reason I did not renew was I felt I was not accepted as a customer of the DSC..
Mav
Thats because you looked common like the majority of us :lol:
Fair point tho Mav !
Thats because you looked common like the majority of us :lol:
Fair point tho Mav !
my old man (god rest his sole) brought me up to treat all people the way I would like to be treated !
Apart from the baseball bat joke's (those that Know me ) know I would not do you a bad turn if i could not do you a good turn First !!!
mav
Jools, firstly, thanks for posting. It's nice to know that someone on the MT is prepared to.
However, lumping the whole of the MT together as one entity with only "the party line' point of view is disingenuous.
The choice is between lumping the MT together as one entity or naming individual MT members specifically for criticism. As I have no knowledge of the workings of the MT and how/who makes the running, it is only fair to choose the former. A number of the MT member are friends of mine who I don't believe for a moment would have agreed to moderating Henners' posts. For all I know, the decision was made by one individual MT member but, as the decision has been presented as a Management Team decision, then it's the MT as an entity that I'm calling to account specifically to avoid 'having a pop' at individuals.
If you wish to be seen as an individual and not tarred with the same brush then you will have to start declaring you individual position on the subject at hand. (I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't, just pointing out that you would have to if you want to avoid the tar.)
Unfortunately, we have to deal with misguided assertions, like the one above, that we're too idle to be bothered by members concerns, that we couldn't care less, that we have to have people in our pocket to post for us because we're too stupid to think up a reply for ourselves.
I confess that it was my intent to provoke a reaction - not in the Troll sense but to get some kind of dialog going with either the MT or the members of the MT. Jools, you posted, I'm replying... that's dialog. Having no word from MT/MT members for two days whilst the rank-and-file slug it out in an un-becoming fashion is not a responsible way to deal with the issue.
To the point. My personal view on the whole subject... hate to see this board become closed to any non-members... People who are non-members have chosen to be so... if you don't want to be a member, then don't be... Moderation has to be in place... One man's moderation is anothers censorship...
All very interesting and worthy and I agree with all of it. But it is not the subject of this thread: Is Henners Banned from posting?
People are not moderated for no reason at all and are given fair warning that their post has been found to be offensive or in breach of forum rules (or reported by another user).
Ah! Now we're getting somewhere. There are lots of issues being raised, but let's keep it simple. It boils down to this:
Is it right that Henners posts have to be reviewed and judged whether they are deemed worthy of being placed on this forum when, as far as I know, he hasn't contravened any of the T&C in any of his posts?
Bearing in mind that last quote, Jools, is it fair?
Getting back to the original thread I have had no response from Frank or the MT when I asked the question along the lines of there is nothing in the forum rules for moderation, Frank quoted the rules which were posts can be edited, deleted etc but there is no mention of moderation. I asked surely Henners can post then and his posts could simply be removed after this time not before going by the current forum rules??? Still waiting for an explanation of the above thats all.
Iconic944ss
18-Oct-2006, 11:08
Apologies for not replying faster JPM but between my 12 hour shift work and what currently feels like around 40 hours a week on this website as well, I'd not noted the request for my reply.
Can I express a personal opinion, to the original question:
Is Henners banned from posting?
Nope - he isnt, he can read posts on the board and still post BUT,his posts are not visible to the 'public' until they have been ratified by a moderator.
As far as my information goes a decision was made by the majority of the MT that Henners posts would be moderated in the short term, this in my mind is better than the other possible option of a temporary ban - meaning no access to the site for that account.
Is moderation specifically mentioned in the T&C's ?
No it isnt - neither is banning a member for abusive or threating posts, yet we accept that as a necessary measure and TRUST the webteam to try and act in a decent and as open a way as possible.
Surprisingly enough, I dont have a political agenda of any sort on this message board; I like to read about Ducati's, be informed and about two weeks ago I even managed a ride out on my own Ducati.
Quite a few posts on the board recently (in my opinion) have a hidden and usually self-motivated background. Some users see themselves as champions of various causes to oust the management teams for whatever reason that I'm not particularly interested in. I view those posts as damaging to the club generally and personally saddening that instead of providing genuine solutions they simply attack an 'easy' target - which, at the end of the day is simply trying to provide a medium where we can enjoy our love of motorcycles.
Regards - Frank
Cheers Frank for clarifying...
Is Henners banned from posting?
Nope - he isnt, he can read posts on the board and still post BUT,his posts are not visible to the 'public' until they have been ratified by a moderator.
I just find it hard to believe that Henners posted something that was such a flagrant contravention of T&C items 1.1 (Flaming), 1.2 (Trolling), 1.3 (Spamming), 1.4 (Bumping) or 1.5 (Offensiveness) that could possibly justify moderating his posts.
As far as my information goes a decision was made by the majority of the MT that Henners posts would be moderated
So if it wasn't for abusive posts... it couldn't possibly be that the MT ordered it simply because he has said things that the MT don't agree with??
weeksyracing
18-Oct-2006, 18:50
Times like this when ringing or pm'ing the MT members would be the best course of action.
Much as i'm an advocate for freedom of speech, there's times when it does more harm than good....
what you rekon ?
Times like this when ringing or pm'ing the MT members would be the best course of action.
Much as i'm an advocate for freedom of speech, there's times when it does more harm than good....
what you rekon ?
weeksy whose hand is up your back this week as this doesnt sound like the weeksy i know:p
it is best things are out in the open i think as there is to much hidden in emails.
as i said to you at cadwell talking about things is best to do and clear the air:)
weeksyracing
18-Oct-2006, 19:25
weeksy whose hand is up your back this week as this doesnt sound like the weeksy i know:p
it is best things are out in the open i think as there is to much hidden in emails.
as i said to you at cadwell talking about things is best to do and clear the air:)
No-ones mate... as you may have seen from a couple of threads i've started recently, i just want the good old days back.
I don't really do politics and think although you have a point about them being out in the open, surely not every single point of contention of every single post and thread needs to be disected and torn apart time and time again... i've had enough of it all.
I'll keep saying it.... i don't support the MT, i don't support the RC, i don't support anyone apart from my friends who race and the club i used to love being a part of. Unlike some on here, my only agenda is to see the club and it's members happy again.
like the rest of us mate:)
thats why it all needs bringing out in the open and getting rid of.
all the time things are behind closed doors nobody knows what goes on.
hope usual service here is sorted out soon when decent answers have been given
weeksyracing
18-Oct-2006, 19:44
Weeksy, get someone to swap the roundel to the WR account, sooner or later soom eeeejit is going to tell you to butt out as your not a member :) ;)
i'll tell them to *&!%&* off :)
i'll tell them to *&!%&* off :)
Can add your roundel if you wish tho Weeksy.
jeff st4s
18-Oct-2006, 22:20
Can add your roundel if you wish tho Weeksy.
After he has paid for it! :) :)
If you dont like it here, **** off! How that for constructive........as appossed to destructive!.....and i have seen plenty of that from you.
Why stay around? Why not do something about whats going wrong if your so committed?.....You aint lost 6500 posts say your still here....banging on! Do something about it, put yourself up for committee, and expose all these wrong doings! failing that...................... just stay bleeting on and on!
like I've said before, there are a lot of people that do things to support this club, both members and non that you will NEVER be party too, when you finally get round to adding any value whatsoever to this club you can then tell me to **** off, until then wind your neck in .....
find me something destructive where there wasn't a genuine principle involved ? go on, theres another challenge ....
then again its more likely you'll find it easier to just have a personal dig, thats what happens when you are challenged intellectualy you revert to being an angry man with no real reply.
I won't even lower myself to insulting you as you honestly aren't worth it.
Have a nice day in your "i've paid £20 and must be obeyed" bubble.
Good lad ....
jeff st4s
18-Oct-2006, 22:49
Have a nice day in your "i've paid £20 and must be obeyed" bubble.
Good lad ....
As long as you don't think all of us with a roundal are company men I won't take offence. :)
As long as you don't think all of us with a roundal are company men I won't take offence. :)
not at all mate, I treat people as I find them, some of the finest people I know have roundals ... :)
jeff st4s
18-Oct-2006, 22:58
not at all mate, I treat people as I find them, some of the finest people I know have roundals ... :)
Cheers I'd heard you were a good guy. :) :)
weeksy is right
there is nothing to be achieved by washing your dirty laundry in public
some may think you will achieve what you want by asking for answers in the public forum
but in reality you will only single yourselves out
the quickest way to undermine any uprising is to let them hang themselves in public
the club will always survive as its to big to go under
how ever big you think you are
toe the line or get alienated
weeksy is right
there is nothing to be achieved by washing your dirty laundry in public
some may think you will achieve what you want by asking for answers in the public forum
but in reality you will only single yourselves out
the quickest way to undermine any uprising is to let them hang themselves in public
the club will always survive as its to big to go under
how ever big you think you are
toe the line or get alienated
Communism at it's best then Keefer? LOL!!!
Er has anyone given the clear concise answer to the original question:confused: i.e.
NO
no spin, no BS, nothing to get wound up about, it wasn't exactly and open question was it:D
Simple innit,
Ray.
Er has anyone given the clear concise answer to the original question:confused: i.e.
NO
no spin, no BS, nothing to get wound up about, it wasn't exactly and open question was it:D
Simple innit,
Ray.
It hasn't gone un-noticed. There has been plenty of time and opportunity to for the MT (Sorry Jools) to provide us with some answers. I think we can assume that unless we get an official response today then we aren't getting one. I will be posting my own conclusions from all this tomorrow.
Er has anyone given the clear concise answer to the original question:confused: i.e.
See post no. 2 on page 1. Was that not the answer to the question?
ChrisBushell
19-Oct-2006, 13:15
Er has anyone given the clear concise answer to the original question:confused: i.e.
NO
no spin, no BS, nothing to get wound up about, it wasn't exactly and open question was it:D
Simple innit,
Ray.
I have just picked up on this and am not going to read the entire thread to see what has been put up earlier, but as I understand it (I am the Club Secretary), no Henners is not banned from the DSC or from posting on this message board.
See post no. 2 on page 1. Was that not the answer to the question?
Apparently not:lol:
Ray.
See post no. 2 on page 1. Was that not the answer to the question?
Perhaps we can draw some conclusions from responses like that...
Perhaps we can draw some conclusions from responses like that...
Perhaps we can draw some conclusions from responses like that..
Ray
Is this getting really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really really, really really, really really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, silly now?.............., you bet:lol:
Keep it real.
....
Keep it real.
Are you wearing a baseball cap by any chance?
I just had visions of you leaning back with your arms crossed in front of you :lol:
'sup g !
psychlist
19-Oct-2006, 13:40
I have just picked up on this and am not going to read the entire thread to see what has been put up earlier, but as I understand it (I am the Club Secretary), no Henners is not banned from the DSC or from posting on this message board.
That's not exactly correct is it (Chris?) and Henners will not be able to reply promptly in defence as his posts are being "moderated" ;)
That's not exactly correct is it (Chris?) and Henners will not be able to reply promptly in defence as his posts are being "moderated" ;)
It is correct Tony, He is not banned and has not been stopped from posting!
It's just that his post's are moderated ! so by the time the web team reads and posts them they will be irrelevant to the post as the speed of the post has moved on !
Or am I thick?
Are you wearing a baseball cap by any chance?
I just had visions of you leaning back with your arms crossed in front of you :lol:
'sup g !
Sheeeeeeeesh I didn't think the work webcam was in range:lol:
Maybe you can help with this one, we got "surf Control" at "work" now, does this mean I just I just buy a board, hop on wave and look as cool as Kelly Slater and the Surf control ECU sorts it all out for me??:D
respec'
Ray.
Iconic944ss
19-Oct-2006, 16:36
A paid up member has requested that this thread be closed.
Since the user mentioned in the title thread has also requested the same, I feel the time is right to complete the requests.
Can I suggest that any use of moderation methods that any users are unhappy with can either be posted to the webteam or discussed at the AGM or any possible meeting prior to then.
Webteam email:
webteam@ducatisportingclub.com
Kind Regards - Frank
N.B. - I have closed this thread for the reasons above.
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