I am now officially an ST owner

[moto748]

Having taken possesion of a T reg ST2 this morning. :)

Bit of a beast after the 748, but it'll be good to be back on a Ducati!

I shall look forward to racking up the miles on it in my usual style (rectifiers permittimg :rolleyes: ).

[Jools]

Get it set up right and you'll find its a very underated bike

[Ozz]

Great news Fred. Get them miles in....

[YMFB]

welcome to the quiet understated part of the club.

[moto748]

OK, initial impressions: not that favourable, really.

Jeez they're agricultural aren't they? I was surprised by the amount of vibration, although I suppose I shouldn't be with a litre (near enough) twin. Felt much like I imagined an old BMW R100 would feel (not that I've ridden one).

And the headlights are AWFUL! I'm hoping that this may be partially improved by tilting the unit up a bit more: it just doesn't go far enough anywhere near at the moment. Dipped beam lights about 5 paces away, main beam adds another couple of paces. And in fact main beam gave up altogether half-way home. maybe increased vibration from bigger pistons means more blown bulbs, I don't know. But I never replaced a main beam bulb in 60k miles on the 748, I know that. Truth is the 748/916 lights are often criticised, but they are like a set of Klieg lamps compared to these.

Generally the bike didn't seem that comfortable in low-speed traffic.

I know people say, it'll be fine once you get on the open road, but in winter commuting, every journey you do is in the dark, and you know how car drivers mimsey along when it gets dark. Often there *is* no 'open road'. In my 30 mile journey, I barely exceeded 40 mph.

[moto748]

On the plus side, I've managed to re-set the clock to GMT! :)

[jeff st4s]

I've done 6000 miles since Feb on mine and had no problems with blown bulbs, the lights are shite, check one of the ST threads about lights that one of the other guys stuck up taking you to a link for a place in the States, not cheap but excellent lights.
I think Jools stuck the link up when I asked about some better lights for mine.

[moto748]

That twin headlight conversion?

It's around $500 if I remember correctly. Bit steep...

[rockhopper]

Maybe the ride height is set very high which is making the headlight point at the ground. When its on the main stand how much of a gap is there between the back tyre and the ground?

A 14 tooth front sprocket and a good set up will help the slow speed lumpyness.

[moto748]

Maybe the ride height is set very high which is making the headlight point at the ground. When its on the main stand how much of a gap is there between the back tyre and the ground?



No gap, really.

Thanks for that, rockhopper.

[Jools]

Hmmm...how long has it been since things like the throttle bodies were balanced etc..Sounds as if it's running rougher than it should.

My ST2 vibrates a bit more than my 4 valver, but not so much that it feels agricultural, in fact there's not much in it and my ST is really quite good at low speed. I do have a 14 tooth sprocket on it though.

[moto748]

Well, 'agricultural' is a matter of perception. I'm confident the throttle bodies etc are fine. The sprockets have been tweaked, too.

To be honest, I'm not sure this is the bike for me. I've already managed to scratch the paint on the offside pannier *and* nearside mirror, getting it in and out of my back yard. This on Day One! :rolleyes:

I fear it may be a bit too big and heavy for me.

[Glyn]

put my st2 up at the begining of summer
and now the grits out the 749 is going into hibernation
i'm really looking forward to getting back on the st
the grunt of that 2 valve engine is awsome and the ease of fast turning is a real joy

[Mad Dog Bianchi]

do the ST2's have the adjustable headlight feature? I have no lighting problems with my 4, but perhaps the lighting is totally different.

[moto748]

I'm pretty sure they're the same. Mad Dog. I'll get it sorted tomorrow.

[rockhopper]

No gap means its got some serious ride height dialed in. I used to have a good 20mm gap but then Nelly altered it for me to almost no gap. The bike turned more quickly but i had a problem with seeing where i was going! I found i was looking over the top of my glasses and i also had too much weight on my wrists. I changed it so it was somewhere in between and its been fine since.

[Athelstan]

Moto748
Here's the link to the headlight guys in the States: http://ducatidesigns.com/

Never had any headlamp blubs blown.

Re your other comments - you should have got an ST4 or even better an ST4s - then you would already be in nirvana

[moto748]

rockhopper> I'm sure you're right there about the ride height: I'll get it checked out.

Athelstan> Thanks for the link, but, as I said, it's a bit steep. If I had a more expensive ST4S that I was planning on keeping long-term, it might be a good idea. But I needed a cheap(ish) bike quick, and the ST2 was available. I'm sure it'll last me over the winter, although perhaps not beyond. We'll see.

I've ridden an ST4, years ago, but never an ST2 before.

[Jools]

Nah, have to disagree with Athelstan. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a well set up ST2.

Mine has carried me through 4 winters, done some big mileage ride outs keeping up with 'bigger' machines and set a quicker lap time around Cadwell park than an ST4S I borrowed.

Me and my mate Glyn both ride ST2's and absolutely love 'em for their low down grunt. We both ride 4 valve sportsbikes in the summer, I've got an 888 and Glyn has a 749S but as Glyn says ^^^^ up there, neither of us can wait to get back on the ST2. I recently took my ST2 to Cadwell for a track day and although it didn't behave itself (for one of the only times in years) and had an intermittent misfire that made it a liability on a damp track, I was staggered by the immediate grunt and quick throttle response it had. I'd forgotten about that since I last rode it. Fordie also rode it and reckoned that it picked up quicker than his 996

[Red Steve]

Sorry fella's you're all wrong ! The ST3 is the one you want..

[Jools]

:lol: Fair point

[jeff st4s]

Sorry fella's you're all wrong ! The ST3 is the one you want..

No, No, NO! :eek: :eek:

Please don't starts fighting amonst ourselves, it's bad enough the red v's yellow brigade, but the intellectual elite fighting over who's ST is the best.

We ride the best Ducatis :devil: , the rest of them just don't know it!

When I get mine back from service, it wil have some DP cans and a nice noisy clutch, oh and a few tarty bits to make it go faster as well. Can't wait. :D

[moto748]

<sob>

I want my 748 back! :(

Frankly I think the chances of me learning to love the ST2 are remote.

I feel like I've swapped a Ferrari for a tractor.

Yes, they're grunty, yes, the riding position is OK. But it's too big, too heavy, too damn crude. The 748 fitted me. This doesn't. It's wide, and a nightmare to get into my back yard: I seem to scrape the damn mirrors nearly every time.


And the lights are the worst I've had since my old 6V TS 125. To be fair, I can't believe they can't be further improved. The ride height has been reduced, and the adjusters tilted up. but more is needed: much more. You know that US site linked to above that do the dual headlight unit? Well I'd be very happy if mine were as good as the "before" ones in their comparison.

[Monty]

Too big?-compared to a 748 yes probably.
Too Heavy?-actually it is only about 10kg heavier than a 748.
Lights-hmm-agreed they are not the best-but you can get an HID conversion which will improve things no end I am told.
You need to ride it for a few(100's) miles to really get to understand what an ST can give you-I have done over 27,000 miles on my ST4S now and I still love it-VERY capable bike-and it does trackdays.

John

[jeff st4s]

[I]I feel like I've swapped a Ferrari for a tractor.

Yes, they're grunty, yes, the riding position is OK. But it's too big, too heavy, too damn crude. The 748 fitted me. This doesn't.

And the lights are the worst I've had since my old 6V TS 125. To be fair, I can't believe they can't be further improved. The ride height has been reduced, and the adjusters tilted up. but more is needed: much more.

Maybe the 2 valve ones are not as smooth as the 4, I've never riden one, but I love my ST4S is all I can say.

Maybe change the bulbs for new ones, perhaps they are a the end of there life.

I got my suspension sorted out by Steve Jordan in Bookham, Surrey, Ohlins technician, runs a race bike or 2, so he knows what to do, after that I was more at home with the performance of the suspension.

[TP]

I got my suspension sorted out by Steve Jordan in Bookham, Surrey, Ohlins technician, runs a race bike or 2, so he knows what to do, after that I was more at home with the performance of the suspension.

Steve is very good - another vote for him moto748 if you want to go down that route.

:)

[Jools]

Maybe the 2 valve ones are not as smooth as the 4

No they're not, but it's more like the 2 valve ones are not quite as smooth as the 4, rather than the 4's being silky smooth and the 2's dog rough.

Can't really describe the difference between my 2 valver ST and 4 valver 888 other than to say that the 2 valver has got more instant grunt on tap but starts running out of breath at around 7-8K - which is just where the 4 valver is coming on strong. The 2 valver feels more gutsy and raw, but not to the extent that it's unpleasant or rattling yer fillings.

[Athelstan]

No, No, NO! :eek: :eek:

Please don't starts fighting amonst ourselves, it's bad enough the red v's yellow brigade, but the intellectual elite fighting over who's ST is the best.

We ride the best Ducatis :devil: , the rest of them just don't know it!

:D

Oh dear - I see the boys from the Communist Party are at it again.

My post re the ST4 was an expression of my own opinion based on what I had ridden in the ST range which included experiences of the 2 and 3 (note I did not mention the ST4sABS as I have not ridden this bike). I did not say that the ST2 was an appalling example of motorcycle engineering!

Neither did I question the veracity of Jool's performance on his ST2.

We should not stifle opinion, nor confuse an alternative viewpoint as a skirmish. The forum is here for us all to elucidate our experience of one product or another, or, our preference for example, of a bike in one colour scheme or another.

Folks writing freely (without abuse to others) about their own favourite Sports Tourer (or any other Ducati) should be encouraged - Henry Fordiets or Joe Starlinists have no place here.

An open and broad debate develops the forum into a worthwhile, informative and valuable platform - let's keep it that way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Moto748
The US DucatiDesigns solution is expensive - but it does the job. A cheaper alternative - approximately £12 is to upgrade the stock bulbs using the Xenon one's available from Halfords, but, a 20% improvement on rubbish is still rubbish - the problem lies with the headlamp lens and the wiring looms capacity to feed the bulbs.

[jeff st4s]

We should not stifle opinion, nor confuse an alternative viewpoint as a skirmish. The forum is here for us all to elucidate our experience of one product or another, or, our preference for example, of a bike in one colour scheme or another.

Folks writing freely (without abuse to others) about their own favourite Sports Tourer (or any other Ducati) should be encouraged - Henry Fordiets or Joe Starlinists have no place here.

An open and broad debate develops the forum into a worthwhile, informative and valuable platform - let's keep it that way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


I think you missed the joke somewhere along the lines here.
I was saying if the ST boys started fighting about the number of valves it would be no better than the red/yellow divide. :)

Besides red ones are sexier if not faster. :frog: :frog:

[ChrisQ]

I had an R reg ST2 and now have a 51 reg ST4s and I find the ST4s much, much smoother and would not go back to the ST2. The 4s has also (tough wood) been 100% reliable whereas the ST2 wasn't.

Having done a track day on both (at Castle Combe), I much prefer the 4s there as well. On the ST2, as mentioned above, it runs out of steam around 7k whereas the ST4s just keeps going until about 10K.

So another vote for the 4s. However, the ST2 is a hell of alot cheaper. But if I was in your position and you're thinking of changing, I would look at the 900ss. Cheap as chips, easier to work on, smaller and lighter than the ST2.

Chris

Edited to say - my ST2 was silver and the 4s is red so that may account for the performance difference!!

[moto748]

Just to clarify: I have no complaints about the suspension/handling at all.

It may well only be 10 kg heavier than a 748, but the point is the 748 is smaller, with a lower seat height. As I said, the ST2 is a nightmare to get in and out of my back yard. That may seem like a little thing, but it's not to me; it's a damn nuisance.

Re the lights, as I said, I can't believe they;'re as good as they should be: they are nowhere near up to the standard of the "before" pix on that US site.

I took the car to work today, but tomorrow I'll take that nose fairing off and have a good look at those tilting mechanisms. Also I may lower the ride height a little more.

How do people think the stock lights compared to a 748/916? I found my 748 lights perfectly adequate (with a "20% brighter" dip beam) without being brilliant.

Chris> The ST2 was only intended to be a short-medium term stop-gap. I have indeed been thinking of an 900SS next; I've mentioned that on other threads. And I have put a few miles on one before, so I know what they're like.

jeff> Doesn't the ST4S have a updated lights set-up anyway?

[rockhopper]

My St2 was silver and my St4 is red and i also wouldn't go back to a 2. I'm really not sure where the gruntyness of the ST2 comes from which is perhaps why i never managed to find it. I think the ST4 has a vastly superior engine at all revs. The only downside are the increased maintenance costs.

[Nattyboy]

Isnt the ST2 based around the old paso engine ?

Just let it rust up a bit Fred and get a few more scratches on her and it will be like an old friend then....lol !!!

[moto748]

Isnt the ST2 based around the old paso engine ?

Just let it rust up a bit Fred and get a few more scratches on her and it will be like an old friend then....lol !!!


Oi! Bloody cheek! ;)

[jeff st4s]

Re the lights, as I said, I can't believe they;'re as good as they should be: they are nowhere near up to the standard of the "before" pix on that US site.

How do people think the stock lights compared to a 748/916? I found my 748 lights perfectly adequate (with a "20% brighter" dip beam) without being brilliant.

jeff> Doesn't the ST4S have a updated lights set-up anyway?

Not sure about different lights, one of the more knowledgeable boys may be able to help here.

When we were out on a night ride, when we got to a coffee stop, I switched my st4s lights on a Roy used his 996 lights and they were just as bad as each others, not sure if they are better than yours.
But I think they are dangerous for quick riding on tight twisty roads, especially when I have a BMW of similar age design and it's lights are far better, so no excuse for Ducati to say there was no better technology around at the time when we designed the bike.

I think it is a case of try normal new bulbs or some modern brighter replacement ones that may be able to drop in place without modifing? Don't know if there are any.
Or it's this American kit for loads of money.

[moto748]

The ST4S I saw yesterday had a completely different nose-fairing and light unit to the ST2/4. I don't know if all ST4S's are like this, or just very recent ones.

Well I've just had another go at it: jacked the ride height up a little more (a bit more accessible than on my 748), and screwed away frantically at those adjusters under the instrument panel fascias. Although I have to say they don't appear to have hardly any effect. When it gets properly dark I'll pop out for a quick spin and see if it's made any difference.

As far as the ride height is concerned, I can now just get the handle of my ratchet under the back tyre with the bike on the centre-stand. Measuring it, that's about 18mm. How does that sound to you guys?

[Glyn]

bout right

[KeefyB]

The ST4S I saw yesterday had a completely different nose-fairing and light unit to the ST2/4. I don't know if all ST4S's are like this, or just very recent ones.

Yep,early ST4S had the same headlamp as ST2/4,...the later ones were the same as ST3,and used a wider headlight.

[rockhopper]

To get the bike turning quickly you need the wheel almost touching the ground but you might find it a bit twitchy and unstable and also run into problems like i had with the top of your helmet getting in the way of your vision! It really does lift the back of the bike a lot. 20mm is the ultra stable conservative setting.

I think its only in the last couple of years that the ST4S has had the revised top fairing.

[moto748]

Thanks, Glyn, KeefyB, and rockhopper.

At the risk of labouring the point, I'm more interested in it's effect on the headlight than on handling. Realistically, on cold, dark, winter roads, I'm much much interested in simple A to B transport. I'm certainly not going to be exploring the limits of its handling in rush-hour traffic coming home from work.

But it's a relief to know I'm in the right ball-park with 18 mm.

I'm thinking of braving the cold and shooting over to Bath in a bit; the annual Film Festival is on at the moment.

[misterpink]

have you tried a multistrada?? i swapped my 748 for one - and love it, course the 748 was special - and on a trackday i know which i would have( i think as i haven't had a trackday on the multi yet). Anyway. the multistrada has a great headlight, easily adjusts, good power characteristics for the winter roads, low maintenance etc etc and is great fun to ride - try one if you get the chance - they are a bargain.

[moto748]

It's crossed my mind. :)
But Multistradas are a bit more than I'm prepared to pay at the moment. That said, it's quite possible I wouldn't like them at all. I might try to get a run out on one.

And hey, I feel like I'm starting to become some sort of Seinfeld-style Headlight Nazi around here! ;)

It's hardly my first priority in choosing a bike. But the lights on this bike at at the moment as less than adequate.

[moto748]

Spent yesterday twiddling beam adjusters, fitting Halfords supa-dupa bulbs (15 quid each! :o ), and scagging my knuckles. Bulb changing is an increasingly fiddly job on both cars and bikes these days: why? Car's used to have screws on the outside of the lenses: you removed the lenses and took out the bulb; easy-peasy. Now you have scag your knuckles behind the bumpers. Bikes are the same. Some progress...

Anyway, I reckon I've got the lights "about as good as they'll get".

One thing strikes me, though. The main beam has very little impact. Closer examination reveals that this is because it points towards the hedge on the opposite side of the road, not 'straight down' the road at all.

Anyone else noticed this? Or is my light unit misaligned?

[rockhopper]

Is it a UK bike?

[phoenix n max]

I'm thinking of braving the cold and shooting over to Bath in a bit; the annual Film Festival is on at the moment.

Sooo how did it go ? - and did you see any good filums ? ;)

[moto748]

Since you ask ;)

Romanzo Criminale, a cool Italian gangster movie with lots of great old Italian cars!


rockhopper> Yup. Well, as far as I can see. It has mph clocks. How are the lights arranged on "Euro" bikes? Does dipped beam swap over to the right hand side, or is it invariably on the left?

[rockhopper]

The lights look the same, I think its just a bent piece of metal inside the headlight that makes it left hand dip. What does the log book say?
Might be worth checking the frame number with Ducati UK. Actually someone posted a list of frame numbers and destinations a while back.

I'm not much help when it comes to headlights, in six years of St2 and St4 ownership i've only ridden it in the dark one and that was down the M1!

[phoenix n max]

Since you ask ;)

Romanzo Criminale, a cool Italian gangster movie with lots of great old Italian cars!


Hmmm - I'll look it up - I've been partially converted into allsorts of foreign films recently - Ade loves em :confused:

[Athelstan]

Since you ask ;)

rockhopper> Yup. Well, as far as I can see. It has mph clocks. How are the lights arranged on "Euro" bikes? Does dipped beam swap over to the right hand side, or is it invariably on the left?

The UK / Aus / Japan all have the same lens cover: 520.4.011.2C

If you have a european spec bike the lens cover will not have a "C" on the end - but - "A". If yours has this then it will naturally point the beam the "other" way.

Also, if it is an early ST it may have a "Supersport" headlamp lens fitted, in which case the part numbers to look for are in top left corner of lens unit. 45991-C - again if it ends in "A" you have a european lens.

Finally, there are no metal plates to bend inside the lens unit.

[moto748]

Thanks. The lens glass has (amongst other numbers) 45991 on it. No "C", or "A" for that matter.

Ducati Bristol are literally on my way home. I might pop in and ask them if they can be of any help.

Any way, it was always my understanding that only dipped beam was ever deflected to the left on any motorcycle, and main beam just pointed directly ahead, regardless of LH and RH driving. I'm damn sure the 748 main beam pointed straight ahead.

Is this not the case?


[edit]
Athelstan's post above implies that the plastic lens cover itself is the thing that does the deflecting. If that were the case, then presumably it would deflect both beams, and what I said above wouldn't apply.

[Athelstan]

Athelstan's post above implies that the plastic lens cover itself is the thing that does the deflecting. If that were the case, then presumably it would deflect both beams, and what I said above wouldn't apply.

Moto - Well at least it doesn't have an A on it! So it could be a UK one :-)

I really do not now know what you have as a lens on your ST. I am not aware that any of the lenses were made in plastic - all those I have ever come across are glass. Maybe the newer ST's have a plastic headlamp lens, but I thought you had an ST2.

The lens cover does the deflecting. Both beams are biased to the nearside of the road - no beam is absolutely straight on. They are biased left or right dependent on whether you drive on the right or the left of the road.

I'm interested in what your local dealer will say.

[moto748]

It may well be glass: I wasn't looking at it when I said plastic.

[Derek]

The main beam should point straight ahead. The dip beam can have a straight cut-off (US dip) or can have a cut-off with a rise in the beam to the left (UK) or right (European).
On the ST the dip beam is a projector unit and the beam pattern and dip is done entirely within the projector. Note that headlamp glass on the left side over the projector is entirely plain. The main beam pattern is produced both by the reflector design and the the glass of the headlamp lens.
If the main beam is directed ot the right, either the headlamp adjustment is badly out of alignment (there is a side to side adjustment screw at the right rear of the lamp unit), the bulb isn't seated properly (this is easily done with H1 bulbs) or, the front subframe is bent.

[moto748]

That's interesting, Derek.

Those adjustment screw (8mm A/F) on each side of the lamp unit at the rear: I'd been told that they are 'tilt up and down' adjustment, rather than side to side. Are you saying that isn't the case? I'd have thought 'up and down' adjustment as all you'd normally need, after all.

Anyway, I've screwed them (outwards) till I'm blue in the face, but it didn't seem to move the beam hardly at all. In any direction.

[Rushjob]

As has been mentioned before the springs holding the bulbs in can lose their tension allowing the bulb to wobble or even point in the wrong direction.
I've also seen bulbs installed upside down which will also adjust the filament's position in relation to the reflector & threfore throw the beam way out of line.

As for adjustment...

Headlamps up to 2003
Adjuster on LHS ( near to fuses) clockwise adjusts down, anticlockwise up
Adjuster on RHS ( near to coolant header ) clockwise adjusts right, anticlockwise adjusts right.

Is it a UK headlamp?? look on the LHS of the lens as you see it, there are 2 E3 markings... at the lower part of the lens... the one towards the centre of the lens has an arrow pointing in the direction the dip beam goes... UK should point to the right as you look at the lens.

( To alter the dip if it's non UK remove the dip bulb & inside the lamp is a small plate held in with a screw... this defines the cut off for the dip. Get chopping & bending... ) It's much easier to get out if the headlamp is removed which doesn't take too long once the fairing is off.

Have you actually set your headlamp to the standard setting fiirst???

As per the manual, with the headlamp 10m from a wall, the top of the horizontal cutoff of the dipped beam pattern thrown onto the wall should be about 90% of the height of the centre of the headlamp from the floor... this could be an easy starting point.

[moto748]

As for adjustment...

Headlamps up to 2003
Adjuster on LHS ( near to fuses) clockwise adjusts down, anticlockwise up
Adjuster on RHS ( near to coolant header ) clockwise adjusts right, anticlockwise adjusts right.



Clockwise left, anticlockwise right? That makes sense.

Many thanks.

The arrow on the lens (under 'E3') points in both directions: it's double-ended!

[Paul James]

Sorry fella's you're all wrong ! The ST3 is the one you want..

Or one of each :D