Dead Battery - RENEWED !!!

[Iconic944ss]

This is something that has bugged me and I seem to have come to a bit of an impasse......

When I got my 900ss some 14 months ago, it was always very poor starting from cold. This i put down to a combination of old (original Yuasa) battery and the 944cc big bore kit fitted.

I think one or two cells are a little weak on the battery as they always appear to need topping up with distilled water MUCH earlier than the others - I've tried EDTA and now use an Optimiser which makes life much easier (however, as usual - I digress)......

When the lack of starting actually reached its worst I bought a Gel type battery from a supplier in the UK as the claims for it appeared to be excellent - retains charge - does not leak if punctured etc etc

However, starting was no better and at one point I actually fried some of the starter cable - so after replacing the starter solenoid I decided there had to be a fault with the started motor.

There was indeed a fault with the starter motor - the bushes were almost totally burned out and had to be rebuilt from scratch.

Once that was done - I put everything back together and blow me if the bike still would not start right with the Gel battery fitted - I'm trying to remember the effect.....

I think the starter only spins and sounds like it is not 'latching' correctly - for want of a better term BUT .................
with the old Yuasa lead/acid battery back on THE BIKES STARTS ON THE BUTTON !!!!

I even sent the Gel battery back to the supplier who tested it and said it is perfectly fine and returned to to me F.O.C. (to his credit) - So I'm at a loss and have a useless gel battery stood in my garage.

The only unusual thing I can remember is that the output voltage was higher than I expected - as I remember about 13.5V.

Any ideas anyone ??????? PLEASE !!!!

Cheers - Frank

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Iconic944ss]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Iconic944ss]

[nelly]

Maybe a long shot, but the sprag clutch could be on it's way out??
The high torque ability of the Gel may be "too much, too soon" for the bearing to get a grip, whereas the "mediocre" performance of the Yuasa gives the bearing time to "get a grip".
I had a customers 996, with some serious compression on board that suffered a sometimes similar starting problem.
At first the battery was thought to be struggling, despite the Optimate, but eventually the starter just spun over with no reaction on the engine.
When it was stirpped, the noses of the sprag clutch had worn away completely.
New bearing in there and it starts just fine now.

[Iconic944ss]

I hadnt thought of that one....but what I do find curious it that the few times I'v ehad a problem (when leaving the bike for a while b4 I got the optimiser - but after the starter motor was rebuilt)....

I could jump the bike off using my quite big car battery - but it still would not starting properly with the Gel battery....

Could still b the same fault to the one you described...however, if I use the optimiser and the old battery she starts a treat everytime.

Weird !!!!

Thanks once more - Frank

[Felix]

I was thinking the same thing as Nelly. But, rather than stripping down the left hand side of the engine, just use the old battery since as you say it works just fine.

[paulmort]

... when you hit the starter button the demand for CURRENT, not volts is really high. Lead acid batteries have the capability of drawing loadsa current from the battery for a short time, but gel batteries dont quite have that same "reaction time" for high currents. Its to do with the electrolyte and how the electrons flow across the plates, so sometimes, and I emphasise, sometimes, the reaction for gel types is a little slower than lead acids. If not, why havent all vehicles gone over to gels, and its not just because of cost.
Lead acid type batts even have the power to recover themselves a bit, as deposits on the plates work away and therefore the initial voltage seems a little higher. Remember trying to start the car and running the battery down, and yet 5 mins later theres just enough charge to finally get you started. Gels cant react that fast due to their composition and the jelly electrolyte cant recover as quickly.
However in this case seems like a dud cell, where the cell (1 of 3 in a six volt battery) and 1 of 6 in a 12 volt battery) will discharge across the plates and not out through the terminals, its called, not surprisingly, internal discharging, which is what happens when you leave a battery without a charge over a long period of time (often known as "shelf life")
Well I got so wrapped up in this threafd, Ive forgotten the original........oh yea, why cant I start on gels but ok wiff lead acids.......maybe thats the answer
doh, I'll get me coat
btw a guy called Leclanche, frog 'e woz, invented the original battery called............................................ ......................................you guessed it The Leclanche Cell

Straight jacket fer me, pint of drambuie shandy for KB, smillies all round for Nelly
Time to reach for the wine methinks
a very sad sober Mort
Bestest
mort:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
oh ferk forgot to mention that optimum charge VOLTAGE for lead acids 12v battery is 14.2 volts, but gel types better at approx13.8, how do I know. Aint got a ferkin clue but just do.

[kwikbitch]

Ooooh Get yooo! Smarty Pants!:lol:

[nelly]

Impressive stuff Mort :o
so where does the screwdriver and hammer come in to it then? :frog:

[Iconic944ss]

LOL - I'm glad for all the Info from everyone but still have an EXPENSIVE battery that for the moment I can't use.....

Next question is of course, so this make the battery 'unfit' for its intended purpose?

Ideal excuse for a new bike then? :lol:

Cheers - Frank

[Ian900SLV]

If all else fails Frank, stick the gel battery on Ebay, someone is bound to pay over the odds for it ;)

Ian

[Iconic944ss]

Well, the inevitable has finally happened and after my Cadwell experience I think I was living on borrowed time.

My Lead/Acid Yuasa battery appears to have died - a quick check yesterday after my nice run to Hemsley, has the battery at only 10Volts :(
But it must have done at least 5 years as the previous owner has never changed it so its not bad I guess.

I'm still not sure about Nellies suggestion that there is a fault with the starter clutch but, I certainly know that my Gel battery does not work so.......

Can I fit a Lead/Acid battery of a greater capacity or is this a bad idea?????

I uprated all of the main feed cables when I had the starter motor rebuilt so otherwise the main problem is physically fitting a larger sized battery.

Yuasa themselves do a Yumicron 'CX' version of the OEM battery for my Dukes (The original is a YB16AL-A2) the CX version itself is slightly wider which is the problem I've come across for any upgrade - I think realistically the best I can hope for is an 18Ahr size.

But !!! Is it as simple as that or are there other considerations that need to be taken into account???

Typical - just in time for the nice weather !!!

[KeefyB]

5 years for the origional Yuasa aint bad.They are overated,IMO.
Be careful fitting a differant sized battery to the SS,there is'nt a lot of room under the tank.We wouldnt want the terminals shorting out under there now would we?!?:o

[Shazaam!]

I'd recommend staying with a replacement battery having an equal or greater capacity than the stock battery.

Here's the specs on the stock battery:

Yuasa YB16AL-A2 (16 AH, 200 CCA, 11.5 lbs.) - Dimensions: 8.125" x 2.8125" x 6.4375"

So I'd consider the following maintenance-free batteries:

Fiamm-GS F19-12B (19 AH, 200 CCA) - Dimensions: 7.13" x 3" x 6.6"
Odyssey PC680MJ (19 AH, 280 CCA, 14.7 lbs.) - Dimensions: 7.27" x 3.12" x 6.67" (my personal choice)

[Iconic944ss]

Many thanks as always Shazzam - you are always on the money!

I did wonder what the CCA was for the OEM battery, cheers.

Unless the 'MJ' series is different the Odyssey battery is the Gel one I have (as mentioned above) that is still sat useless in my garage.

The search continues.......................

[Derek]

The Fiam battery that came with my bike 4 years ago was getting a bit sluggish. For a replacement I got a Europa sealed lead-acid battery at 18AH and 250CCA from Rapid Electronics for £28.85 +vat, including free next day delivery. The battery is about 20mm than the OEM, a couple of mm wider and maybe 5mm lower with M5 threaded posts and it works a treat. Rapid's order code is 18-1198 and their telephone mumber is 01206-751160.

[psychlist]

The beauty of gel batteries is they dont mind which way up they stand! Fit it in parallel with your existing lead acid battery and mount it on its side under your saddle. Double the cranking power, same voltage! :D

[Iconic944ss]

Excellent contact sir !!!

http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk/rkmain.asp?PAGEID=80010&CTL_CAT_CODE=&STK_PROD_CODE=M61910&XPAGENO=1

The Varta Rep, found a huge 20Ahr one for me which is used on Harley's of all things (couldnt help but laugh after the HD April fools joke on here).
But its 20mm wider than the OEM and almost touches the rocker box cover.

However, if its of use to anyone the Yuasa Code is Y50-N18L-A

[Iconic944ss]

Its a done deal with Rapid electronics...

Just over £30 is worth it for a sealed battery with a few more Amp/Hr kick I hope.

Thanx for another good contact.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by Iconic944ss]

[Iconic944ss]

Derek YOU RULE !!!

£33.90 later and a lovely new battery arrived in my grubby little hands this dinnertime, roughly 20 hours after I ordered it.

It fitted a treat with very little persuasion and came with stainless fitting as well, even better the bike fired on the button so I am a happy bunny once more. Battery layout is the same and it is a sealed unit, so even fewer worries.

Summer is here :)