Tyre Warmers

[Harv748]

Any of you guys have any recommendations of makes/types to look at? I've seen a couple (Diamond(Diasec.co.uk)) advertised in MCN and some Motrax ones for about the same price of £130.

I dont claim to be Rossi, so I don't want some GP standard gear...just something that will do the job.

Any makes to avoid!

Also if you've got any for sale (or front paddock stand)...see market section.

Cheers

[Edited on 4-2-2004 by Harv748]

[dickieducati]

sorry to hijack the thread; but do they make a real difference even allowing for the time you may wait in pit lane, even on road tyres such at sc's.

[Harv748]

mmmh... I think the general concensus is yes.

For me its all about confindence. Think about the last TD you did, and how you gained confidence (better lines/corner speed etc) during the course of the session. Obviously a lot of that is due to getting used to the circuit etc, but a lot is also down to the bike reaching its 'working temp' as the session progresses. Everything from tyres/oil in the suspension/engine/rider reaches its optimum temperature...and the bike just seems better allround...less nervous...smoother...leading to better laps. Anything I can do to get to that stage, quicker, is worth it in my opinion!

This will only be my second year of trackdays (fast novice/slow inter)...and my main worry when lapping is losing the front or rear! Personally speaking, knowing the tyres have at least 'some' heat in them prior to going out will make a HUGE difference to my confidence.

As for sitting in the pit lane...from what I've seen, most guys who have warmers seem to leave them on for as long as possible, and then join the back of the que. Obviously if you are sat there for a while (due to an accident or summut) then yeah...your going to lose some of the benifits...but I think for the money (£130)...they are well worth the investment if you do more than 2 or 3 TD's a year.

[Felix]

Harv, yes, use a set myself. They work a treat. I use them on my slicks and also on my "intermediates" (Dunlop RR's). I used them for the first time on the Dunlops in the afternoon at last year's DSC trackday at Mallory, when the downpour had stopped and it was slightly damp. It was absolutely superb! Didn't have any "moments" and surprised WJB around the outside at Gerrards. I am planning on using the same "intermediates" during this year's race season.

Definitely recommended, wouldn't do another TD or race without them.

[Edited on 4-2-2004 by Felix]

[dickieducati]

harv,

cheers for that, yup, all makes sense.

i guess if you are up to speed even 1 lap quicker then that is 7 laps per trackday so one whole session.

7 trackdays and more than paid for them selves. go on then discount for 2 sets???

[Harv748]

funny you say that dickie...thats now three people I know off who are interested (if your serious?) in some for this coming year. If anyone else is interested...it could be worth contacting some suppliers for some form of discount/deal?

Anyone else?

[dickieducati]

definitely up for some, the sooner the better. will need them by mid march.

[Dibble]

MW was looking for warmers at the Ally Pally so he may be interested in yer doing a deal somewhere .. i'll email him and get him to check this thread out ...

[uncledunnie]

Harv,

I am in the market for a set too, planning to look at Ally Pally this weekend.

Like you I have done a little research and would be pleased to hear from anyone with particular recommendations.

Can they be run from a power inverter connected to the car or is a generator necessary?

I looked at the Diamond equipment too. It appears that you can buy replacement parts for these which seems to make better long term sense.

Definately count me in with the group purchase.

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by uncledunnie

Can they be run from a power inverter connected to the car or is a generator necessary?

Definately count me in with the group purchase.

dont you just plug them into the sockets in the pit garages ?

im easy really. if we all decide which ones to go for then see the best deal we can get on them.

wich i'd thought about it beforew i went to ally pally last week. doh!

[Harv748]

not sure about power...but I think they run of 240V...so either pit garage or generator. I'm sure some of the race guys here will be able to confirm this.

The diasec ones are the ones used by Weeksey at Brands. R1-Ian recommends them...looking at their wbsite they do seem suitable

So thats 5 potential peps interested...anyone else?:roll:

[Felix]

Keep in mind that you'll struggle to use tyre warmers if you're also using a rear hugger (most of them anyway). Second, Diasec make one especially for the 996 type bikes that have an extra heat guard on the outside. Otherwise, they will get burnt on the exhaust pipe when you're putting them back on after a track session.

Never tried to run them of a 12 inverter but I doubt it would have enough power. You'd probably have to have your car running to avoid draining the battery. Check with Diasec. Use a genny!

[DJ Tera]

I'm definitely interested in a set, if we can get 10 buyers I reckon we'll save a bit of cash! :roll:

[Harv748]

OK thats 6...if we get up around 10 I'll start making some calls...having said that...I'll still ask anyhow!!

[mw]

harv
as dibble noted i was looking at ally pally on sunday .. i wasn't really up to speed/properly researched so didn't buy any but i'm definately up for a suitable set ... up to £200 or so ... please add me to the list !
mw

[Desmondo]

It's all in the mind guys. You'd be surprised at what you can do on a set of cold tyres :)

[dickieducati]

Originally posted by Desmondo
It's all in the mind guys. You'd be surprised at what you can do on a set of cold tyres :)

no i wouldnt. i've seen it. normally first lap first session. paddock hill.:lol:

[skidlids]

To right Desmondo, most practice sessions and trackdays and even in races when I'm on the back of the grid I tend not to use my tyre warmers unless I'm using slicks. Stops me doing stupid moves on the first lap, I always try and treat the first lap out as a siteing lap, which if its a race it actually is. Alllows you to look for spillages etc before coming across them at race pace. Doesn't take much to warm up grooved tyres, at Mallory in december it takes me about 1 1/2 laps on D207GPs, so about 1.5 miles, Cadwell in the summer should be 1/2 a lap at most.

[Jools]

One of WJB's mates was using warmers run from a genny at Donnington last year, and the genny was only just providing enough power to take the chill off the tyres - certainly nowhere near the temperature you get the tyres up to after a few laps (as measured by the Jools forefinger).

Before y'all go in for warmers and renting/buying gennys, you might want to check the warmers power consumption

[dickieducati]

jim, skidlids,

i think you are right about it being a confidence thing. but if tyre warmers will help me get that confidence a lap earlier it has got to be a good thing. if you have it from the word go that is great but i know i dont have.

example:
brands last year i went out and forgot to do my helmet strap up (muppet!), so took it easyish came into pits did it up and went out straight away. most people were only 1 lap up on me but i was being blown away left right and center because i didnt have the confidence to up my speed. it spoilt the whole session. normally i can hold my own (so to speak) from the off.

[dickieducati]

just had a word with diamond securities as i wanted to ask a couple of questions anyway.

thay said they wouldnt be able to do any discount, i said there would be 6 or 7 of us. so they would be 150, or 170 with an exhaust heat shield for a ducati.

[Rattler]

...........not that I use that type - I use ones that have holes burnt into them from the exhaust!!!

Tim:frog:

[Harv748]

Your spot on Kev/Desmondo...about 75% of it is in the head...thats the point!

If someone said to you you could knock a heap off your lap times (or in my case add to my enjoyment of a trackday) for £130(ish)...you would go for it. The fact that this could be an alteration to the bike/engine or hypnotherapy is irrelevant. The thing that slows me (and I would say 99.9% of all other riders) down is not the bike...but the little grey cells of doubt.

There are enough variables to be dealing with when venturing out onto the track...if I can eliminate one of them...so be it!

And they seem to be a good investment for the same price as a carbon mudguard!!!

As for the tyres not taking that long to warm up, tell that to the CSS instructor at the DSC day (Rocky) who binned it in the novice group on lap 2 of the 'warm-up laps' on D207rr's...:frog:

[Edited on 4-2-2004 by Harv748]

[David Cook]

I've been using Bandit Colts 500's for the past 2 years (bought from JHP with DSC discount) and "wouldn't leave home without them!"

They are thermostatically controlled so there's no chance of cooking the rubber and easy to put on and take off. Try to leave them unrolled to cool naturally each time and as Felix says, don't let them touch the (hot) exhaust.

I have used a genny at places like Cadwell and found out that as they're rated at 950 watts you need at least a 1 kVa generator.

[Felix]

Boy, Diasec must have sold a ton of them, because only a month ago, they were selling them for 130 with the exhaust shield. Supply and demand, I guess. And, yes they do have a thermostat (non-adjustable).

[JPM]

I think it's not only the tyre you're trying to get warm (well that's the ultimate goal). But if you can heat into the rim, and wheel, they will hold the heat long than just rubber, so it radiates out etc.

[skidlids]

And I thought most of it was to do with keeping the heat cycling of propper race rubber to a minimum. As for CSS instructors crashing on D207RRs which is a road tyre thats a bit worrying does that mean all road tyres need to be put in warmers before you go out on them.
As for tyre warmers I use HHW and before these I used Euroquip ones, ideally you will need a 1000Watt generator to get them to work properly or at some circuits you can hook up to the mains (Not always possible at race meetings) At Mallory and Donington the outdoor supplies require a Blue 240V round pin plug. In my race van a carry a 25m extension lead with these fittings along with a piigy back lead that has two sockets coming out of one plug, ideal for cutting into somebody elses hook up if they are all taken, I also have a 4-way normal 13amp extension block connected to one of these 2 blue plugs. This give me the choice of plugging my tyre warmers into either my generator or a paddock mains supply.

[Harv748]

Your right Kev...it would be worrying if it happened on the road under normal riding conditions...but it didn't. It was on a track...lap 2...picking up the pace...with cold tyres...nothing else.

Wonder if they will fit the DR?:lol:

[skidlids]

point is Harv that road tyres should be warm by the 2nd lap as the GP race version certainly would be, maybe the instructor should have warmed his brain up first. If I came off in a race on the 2nd lap and blamed cold tyres my mates would tell me to cut the cr@p and own up to making a mistake.

[Desmondo]

I was going to add this when I got home but you've pretty much said it for me Kev. How many people can get their brain in to gear for full on riding within the first lap? Not many I'll bet. You need that first lap or so to get your brain ready for action as much as you need it to warm the tyres.

[Harv748]

I'm sure your right Kev...when the instructor got back to the pits I'm sure they did nothing but rip the pis$ out of him for the rest of the day...you can hear them now...cold tyres my arse!

Would it have happened if he had used warmers....dunno...maybe...maybe not. Surely any margin for error on the opening laps would be greater?

Again (back to the initial point) that this has nothing to do with going mental for the first few laps, but ALL to do with confindence. I'm not saying for one minute that having a set of warm tyres from the off means you can go at breakneck speed for the opening lap...infact almost the opposite, in that having one less thing to worry about means I can concentrate (as you say Desmondo) on lines/braking etc.

[nathanhu]

Hi guys
sorry to jup in on the end , i bought tyre warmers from KLS -- www.kls.de i teamed up with 10 others and bought a set of GP-3D warmer with a 2 stage setting 60C and 80 C with a seamingly low power drain (nomal plug) heat up fast and with the 60C setting you can leave them on all day without and danger of damaging your tyres and just flick the switch over to 80C 20 mins befor you ride out they also us a carbon heat element rather that a metal wire for better heat transfer ...you have to ring for prices ect but they do team/club discount and also different coulor and lettering Hmmmmm nice.

[Monty]

I bought some Diasec warmers last year for £130-thoroughly recommend them. I also rode the TZ last year without warmers-on slicks-at Donnington and lasted 1.5 laps of the warm up before losing the front at Coppice. The tyres felt bloody horrible whereas normally with warmers you can just go straight out and hammer it.
2 points, yes you do need a genny for lots of tracks-Cadwell, Mallory, Oulton. The warmers take 1.4 kilowatts of power so most 'suitcase' genny's are not powerful enough-I am getting a 2.2 Kw Honda for this seasons racing.
Even if you go to tracks with power get one of the blue plugs, they are about £4.00-at least that way with an extension lead and 13amp and blue industrial plugs you will be prepared for all eventualities.

John

[uncledunnie]

I contacted Tyr Sox in the US for a quote based on 8 sets of 240v warmers(although 5+ is needed for the lowest price)

They are prepared to sell them to us at the trade price and will logo up the inners, outers and storage cases with the club logo f.o.c. A variety of colours are available.

£2000 USD's including Fedex shipping, delivery is 1 week from receipt of a wire transfer, which at 1.75/GBP = £1145 = £145 per set in round numbers.

Check out www.tyrsox.com.

What do you all think??

[Felix]

Dunnie: That's a result. That's a very good price for one of the most respected names in tyre warmers. The logo idea is a nice touch. Are they cheaper without the logo?

[Harv748]

Nice one, are you going to get stung with any kind of taxes etc when they are delivered?.

guess its time to make a few phone-calls...thanks for the help guys:D

I will post here the news asap.

[Edited on 5-2-2004 by Harv748]

[uncledunnie]

Harv,

if you can let me have your email address I will forward a copy of their quotation to you.

I believe the logo's are free on 5+ orders but at around £145 per set the offer is very good indeed.

Not sure about the VAT status tho'.

[Harv748]

you've got u2u...would appreciate the quote.

I just remember people saying about buying stuff from ebay-US...and having to pay extra when its delivered because it didn't include this and that tax? Its hard enough buying stuff first hand over there...often the price you see is not the price you end up paying!!

Anyone have any experience in buying stuff from the states like this?

[WeeJohnyB]

I need warmers, please count me in on this.

After 500+ miles around Jerez this week, I can vouch big time for the value of warmers....they are FABEROO...just gun it from the start, none of the 2 laps at slow speed...My mates bikes had them and I didn't ...boo hoo.

WeeJohnyB

[Jools]

Might want to check for hidden charges for the stateside stuff...

I obtained a professional qualification from the states a month or so ago and they sent me a framed certificate. Cost me £20 in customs charges .... for a certificate :o If something so fundamentally worthless can cost £20, tyrewarmers might cost more

[Harv748]

Thats the crunch question really Jools. The deal on offer from Tyr Sox sounds great...but I get the feeling they have to declare how much the package is worth when its sentand some form of Tax is due on its value. As you say...if its more than a few quid a set...it won't be worth it!

I'm trying to find out now exactly how it works...ANY IDEAS ANYONE?

[uncledunnie]

Having carried out some research it appears that we will be liable for import duty and VAT on goods supplied from the USA.

If the TARIC code I used is correct (8714190000) then duty will be applied at 3.7% plus good old VAT at 17.5%

Total cost of the Tyr Sox would therefore be approx £175 per unit.

Performance Motorcycle Parts are willing to sell 8 sets of Diasec warmers at £142 each, delivered. (£158 is their current list price not the £175 quoted on their website).

[Harv748]

I've come to the same conclusion myself (after some advice from a few others).

It looks like the UK option is the way forward. Not only will they be around the same price, but if anything goes wrong with them...getting spares etc will be a whole load easier.

I've just had a look at their site, and it looks like that quote is for the 'standard type'. They have knocked 10% off their list price you mention. I assume they would charge about £175 for their Ducati 'heat shield' type...so with 10% off that...say £160.

What would people prefer £145 ish for standard or £160 ish with heat shield?

What do the interested parties think about it in general? Too much or OK? As Felix says...its a shame we weren't doing this a few months ago when they were 15% cheaper still:o

[Edited on 5-2-2004 by Harv748]

[DJ Tera]

There's a simple way for getting round the charges, it's worked everytime for me so far....

Just get the sender to write "warranty replacement" or similar et voila! no charges :sing:

Thats how I got the PC3 so cheap :D

[dickieducati]

i'd personally be happy to go for diasec ones. can we get a definitive number that want them and then see if we can wring a bit more out of them maybe 140 per set? then i guess we can just call up individually and order???

[Harv748]

You've got u2u Dickie...we are currently in 'negotiation'...be patient guys...findings will be posted asap.

[uncledunnie]

Harv and everyone else,

Dave Wood (as in BSB Dave Wood) can lay his hands on several sets of Chicken Hawk warmers maybe as many as 8. £150 per set. 01296 336750.

Cheapest I've seen Tyr Sox elsewhere retail in the UK is £270.

Those warranty replacements sound interesting ;)

[DJ Tera]

Originally posted by uncledunnie

Cheapest I've seen Tyr Sox elsewhere retail in the UK is £270.

Those warranty replacements sound interesting ;)

Yep, and it works everytime! As they are ;) "warranty replacements" ;) , its assumed that the duty and VAT were paid previously :D

10 U.S. purchases so far (not counting a couple cos the f-ing muppets didnt write it), and havent paid anything :)

I hope theres no I.R./government scum on here! :lol:

[WeeJohnyB]

Anything happenning with this...I'm going to buy at the end of the month when my bank balance momentarily goes into credit.

Motrax and Diamond both for £150 in MCN this week...thermo and lcd...seen then used and they look sound. (if you can see sound).

WeeJohnyB

[Jon]

WJB I have the motrax ones £130 last year. Work fine except for the fact that they run a bit hot imo not thermostatically
controlled. Because they are nylon covered unless protected will melt on the zorsts. I'm looking for new now which have a heat guard or the material can cope with the heat. There is no idicator light to tell you they are working.

[Harv748]

well...the general outcome is that very few companies this side of the pond are prepared to do a deal on any kind of bulk order. Those that are, are for silly money (ie £250-300+) and would not be out of place on a GP grid.

Several 'contacts' in the m/c industry have tried but to no avail. Companies just don't seem interested at the mo...whether its the time of year?

So it looks like the Diasec ones are the best Value for money in the UK. £150 for standard or £170 ish for the type complete with heat shield.

Uncle Dennie mentioned 'Chicken wing' (see above posting by him), anyone know of these?

Any other ideas welcome...otherwise it looks like its each man for himself.

[tyreman]

i have dealt with tyresox and i am awaiting a delivery of 10 sets warmers i will sell them on to interested peeps from dsc for a good price,any one interested please u2u me

tyreman

[Jon]

I've received an e-mail from Clive Racing.
They do euroquip warmers. Heat shield type are extra, but still not perfect for ducatis with anything more than 45mm termies. The can do warmers with a glass matting for an extra £15.00 They are willing to give 10% for 10 or more purchase's. The warmers are £250.00 plus the £15 for the glass matting less 10% and I guess plus P&P

[Edited on 16-2-2004 by Jon]

[Harv748]

OK...the score is that Diasec WILL NOT do any form of club/group discount. Please don't phone them and ask them again...I think they may well be getting the message now...but they won't budge. £150 for standard or £170ish for the type with heat shield. The general feeling is that they are good for the money with numerous DSC members having used and raved about them.

Other options...Tyremans offer above...I have U2U'd him...but he is still waiting on a definate price from TyreSox before offering them up for sale, hopefully won't be too long if you are after the TyreSox brand. I expect, although please correct me if I'm wrong tyreman, but they will probably work out a bit more than the DiaSec ones.

You pay yer money...etc.

I guess it really depends on how much you wanna spend:roll: