View Full Version : 2009 Race Day Format
skidlids
12-Feb-2009, 19:50
For those that haven't seen it
and as Rattler has pointed out that its a bit quiet on the DSC site
Here is New Era's race format for 2009
RACE DAY FORMAT
There will be significant changes to the race day format in that Timed Practice will be discontinued in favour of Qualifying Races.
This means that the first races during the day will act as qualifiers for the main Championship Races in the afternoon. Grid Stickers will be issued at Signing-On. Grid positions for these races will be allocated at Signing On. All of this will save time messing about in the Assembly Area. The fastest laps in each Class will count for Grid Positions in the Championship Races - the fastest in each Class being allocated Pole Position etc etc. The remainder of the grid will be established according to the remaining fastest lap times in order.
This means that, effectively, the meetings will be run to a "three race" format this year - and the accent will be on reducing the delays between races and, consequently, the time riders may have to spend in the Assembly Area with tyres going cold. At the same time a high degree of co-operation will be expected of our riders in order to achieve these objectives as obviously riders falling of towards the end of races will almost inevitably introduce some delays.
That sounds good to me, wonder how many laps qualy races will be over??
that is a shame...... the mad rush for the assembly area 30 minutes before the qualifying was always such fun!
skidlids
12-Feb-2009, 19:57
That sounds good to me, wonder how many laps qualy races will be over??
I my have to add that question to my list for Saturday to see if I can get an answer
nogaromill998
12-Feb-2009, 20:47
Does this mean we have to pay to enter 3 races then rather than 2 as last year?
that is a shame...... the mad rush for the assembly area 30 minutes before the qualifying was always such fun!
**** me you still about:)
Rattler
12-Feb-2009, 21:00
For those that haven't seen it
and as Rattler has pointed out that its a bit quiet on the DSC site
Here is New Era's race format for 2009
.......................
Trouble maker !!! ;)
Rattler
12-Feb-2009, 21:09
Makes sense from a timing and organisational point of view and besides, qualifying was virtually a race anyway :eek:. And now there's an additional practice start too..... change brings opportunity, embrace people, embrace!!! ;)
Scooter916
12-Feb-2009, 21:56
Sounds good to me, A lot better than when it used to be ballots.......
I remember my first ever race in the f600, Second row and crapping myself, Second corner and sat on my aris watching bikes whizz past my swede.
Ahh the good old days ehh Kev, 3 rows and 12 bikes to a row....... The HSE would have a dicky fit..
This means that, effectively, the meetings will be run to a "three race" format this year - and the accent will be on reducing the delays between races and, consequently, the time riders may have to spend in the Assembly Area with tyres going cold.
Obviously I am new to all this, but how would the tyres be warm in the first place?
I personally like the idea because it gives me a feel for a start and a race before my first proper race!
chris.p
13-Feb-2009, 06:08
Obviously I am new to all this, but how would the tyres be warm in the first place?!
The rules are for the New Era Club as whole, DD are the only class within New Era that do not use tyre warmers.
Chris:burn:
I'm all for trying new stuff, and to be qualifying in a race format should give plenty of clear laps to get a fair time on the board... rather than having some slow plank on Pole just cos everyone else got held up! (speaking from experience!) :lol:
What I don't understand is how it would save time - someone want to enlighten me?
speedtherapy
13-Feb-2009, 07:55
Yeah... tyres going cold... hate it what that happens... ;)
skidlids
13-Feb-2009, 08:18
Sounds good to me, A lot better than when it used to be ballots.......
I remember my first ever race in the f600, Second row and crapping myself, Second corner and sat on my aris watching bikes whizz past my swede.
Ahh the good old days ehh Kev, 3 rows and 12 bikes to a row....... The HSE would have a dicky fit..
Was that Keevil by any chance, I seem to rember racing by as you were sat on your arse there, then again I may have passed you a few times when you were sat on your arse. It was all that power without the control.
3 rows deep and 12 riders wide did make for exciting starts and runs down to the first corner.
NG in recent years have had one Points race a day, preceeded by a quallifying race with untimed practice prior to that and its worked well for them
andys 900ss
13-Feb-2009, 09:37
I could see a potential risk here.
Newby gets front row grid allocation and some angry 620's behind looking for pole slots. They all go into the first corner together...............................
Are we sure its safe not having practice, especially for the newby's.
Andy
antonye
13-Feb-2009, 09:40
I too wonder how this would save time - forming on the grid, an outlap, form on the grid then the start? Surely you all have to be in the assembly area just as before? I think this will add time, not save it.
Then again, it's more start practice!
andys 900ss
13-Feb-2009, 09:45
I think the time saving is down to the computer running the whole day as races and the computer works out the rest which is how our swimming meets run.
We know, down to a minute, when the meet will end due to the computer system.
Andy
skidlids
13-Feb-2009, 09:57
I could see a potential risk here.
Newby gets front row grid allocation and some angry 620's behind looking for pole slots. They all go into the first corner together...............................
Are we sure its safe not having practice, especially for the newby's.
Andy
Grid positions by Ballot are nothing new in racing, New Era operated like this for years and its how my grid slots were allocated when I started racing with New Era from 1998 to 2004 when Transponders were then introduced.
It wasn't unusual to have 3 races per class at a meeting, often you would have a start near the front, one at the back and then one around the middle of the grid. I can't recall it causing any major incidents and along with Free practice made the meetings good value.
Question here is will there also be free practice or will your first time out on the track be the quallifying race, something I hope to find out more about tomorrow.
nogaromill998
13-Feb-2009, 10:12
Just spoke to Phil at new era, the qualifying race is NOT charged for as an extra race.
interesting.
I would have concern over newbies being gridded at the front, especially if we have a mixed grid.
Previous experience of this approach means that you can request to move back on the grid if you are novice etc and not comfortable, I just wonder how many will actually do this if it is allowed.
Other than that - seems ok for me, I am **** at qualifying anyway :mad:
Are we sure its safe not having practice, especially for the newby's.
Andy
The ACU book says a minimum of ten mintues practice for any road race event. IIRC it used to be a minimum of 3 laps/rider but that was before they invented radial tyres and transponders.
skidlids
13-Feb-2009, 20:39
Is the cart getting put before the horse here.
New Era have not yet said their will npot be any practice, what they have said is timed quallifying will be replaced by a quallifying race.
They also stated several weeks ago they wanted to add better value for money, They also state that they want to encourage Novices.
Now to me better value for money would be a free practice, followed by a quallifying race and then the two points races.
There has been for some time now a Riders and officials meeting arranged by New Era for tomorrow at a hotel in Daventry. Hopefully this meeting will provide a few answers.
Such as
Will there be Free Practice
How long or over how many laps will the Quallifier race be
How much time will be allocated per class per meeting.
eg if its a 8 hour race day and there is 10 classes then each class should average 48 minutes, enough time for 10 mins free practice, a 10 min quallifier and two 12 minute races, on paper it just about works but in reality we know delays of one kind or another will throw a spanner in that line of thinking.
New Era say they are running 14 classes this year, if you add our 2 that makes 16 but the way New Era have set ther classes out they could easily be combined into 6 or 7 grids and with our 2 making it 8 or 9 then the above times for practice and racing could work
After tomorrow we should know more
skidlids
13-Feb-2009, 20:43
STOP PRESS
THE LATEST FROM NEW ERA
we will still do a morning warm up, it may only be ten minutes however the plus side is you will be able to have three races in a day
skidlids
13-Feb-2009, 20:45
and here is the full statement
we intend to ensure there is no hanging around in the assembly area with tyres going cold, of course once the track is clear for the next race we need all riders to be ready to rock and roll , this will be the riders responsibility and there will be a strict time limit placed on the length of time the assembly area is open ( i.e. 3 minutes ) before the gate is closed and we race, we intend to try and keep tyres warm by only calling for the race once any fallen riders, bikes, oil slicks etc etc have been concluded, it has happened far too many times in the past that we all are sitting waiting when someone falls off or breaks down and all of our tyres go cold, we intend to stop this happening and improve the show for all concerened
From the conversations I’ve had the general consensus is more racing less time qualifying and better organisation, we will still do a morning warm up, it may only be ten minutes however the plus side is you will be able to have three races in a day, Paul you wrote you could get a bad place on the grid and your right however to make it fair we will draw grid slots from the hat when you sign on and unlike some other clubs we will not have riders drawing three ir four grid positions and keeping the best one, we are still to discuss whether to offer trophies to the first three in the qualifying races or to the fastest lap riders, one thing certain is that your fasterst lap will be the lap that dictates your grid position and we all know we ride faster under race conditions than we do in free practice etc
Would be interested to know the format of the "free" practice warm up regarding whether its loads of different classes all mixed up. Horrible if it is.
Scooter916
14-Feb-2009, 11:48
Would be interested to know the format of the "free" practice warm up regarding whether its loads of different classes all mixed up. Horrible if it is.
Yea but it would be no different to a trackday, and it is exactly what it says on the tin.... A warm up.
faith-healer
14-Feb-2009, 15:17
The rules are for the New Era Club as whole, DD are the only class within New Era that do not use tyre warmers.
Chris:burn:
All the more reason for having tyre warmers they are not that expensive....
.....over to you DSC committee
couchcommando
14-Feb-2009, 16:47
All the more reason for having tyre warmers they are not that expensive....
.....over to you DSC committee
You can't just have tyre warmers tho, you also need a generator and paddock stands as a lot of circuits don't have power. If you trailer your bike to a track you then need a vehicle big enough to carry the genny and stands as well as all the other stuff.
No warmers has never been an issue in dd so why make it one ?
Back to the original post I like the idea, my 1st 4 years of racing were done this way with the first race postions done on the time your entry arrived and the 2nd on your finishing position from the first. It encouraged people to get their entries in earlier which is good for the club knowing they have the entries. If you draw pole you can always ask to be moved.
Imola Duke
14-Feb-2009, 16:56
Keep it simple keep it cheap :)
I'm for the extra race, gives me time to learn the circuit and maybe but a fast one (ish) at the end :)
After seeing the pace Matt T achives on his first Lap i reckon tyre warmers
are not needed just a better rider on my bike :lol:
It all sounds good to me.
I'll be able to spend time adjusting forks right up until the qually race gets called with none of the pressure of queuing up to be first out of the gate.
jimbers45
14-Feb-2009, 18:24
:lol:
"I'll be able to spend time adjusting forks right up until the qually race gets called"
that made me giggle that did!
skidlids
14-Feb-2009, 20:56
After todays meeting between Riders and officials the race format for next year is currently undecided, after several points were raised the Merits of a Quallifier race Vs a Timed Quallifying session is now being discussed futher by the officals of New Era.
The original decision to go for the race format was in response to rider requests for more racing laps. Also thrown in to the discussion mix was two timed quallifying sessions with the best lap time out of both sessions setting your grid position.
The meeting was made up mainly of seasoned racers many riding 1000cc bikes and being able to use tyre warmers and wets and these guys have a pretty good idea of what they would like to see.
One thing that did come across was the positive attitude from some of the officials towards Desmo Due classes.
There was also a few other good suggestions
Such as Fewer calls to the holding area, possibly only One call and possibly a max of 3, no doubt they will discuss the ideas and come to a decision, I think one call once the last lap flag goes out followed by a second and final call when the chequred flag goes out would be the best option at that point you would have 3 minutes to get to the holding area before it was closed, after all what did the Final, Final, Final, Final, Final, Final call actually mean.
Also discussed was the awarding of New Eras Saturday trophies in the club house on Sat evening to try and bring a proper club feel back to the paddock, bit like Saturday evening at the Dave Holland Cadwell meeting.
Another couple of things that are likely to happen are
Credit card payments although still needing to be in with your entries 2 weeks before the meeting will not be drawn on until a week before the meeting, probably the Monday, as such late entry fees will be done away with apart from those for riders entering on the day.
skidlids
14-Feb-2009, 21:42
Another thing that came from the meeting was that New Era did make loss last season which is why they are looking into ways of turning things around this season.
They are off to a good start
2008 Circuit Hire (medical cover etc NOT included) £460k
2009 Circuit Hire (medical cover etc NOT included) £250k ish
nogaromill998
14-Feb-2009, 21:49
I wonder if that means our entry fees will be 26/45ths of those in 2008.....lol...
skidlids
14-Feb-2009, 22:12
more like 26 race days in place of 45
Thanks for the updates - much appreciated.
Ta for the thorough updates Skids ;)
Gbyte666
15-Feb-2009, 14:50
Seconded..
Thx
Craig
MLC Racing
16-Feb-2009, 19:45
interesting.
I would have concern over newbies being gridded at the front, especially if we have a mixed grid.
Previous experience of this approach means that you can request to move back on the grid if you are novice etc and not comfortable, I just wonder how many will actually do this if it is allowed.
Other than that - seems ok for me, I am **** at qualifying anyway :mad:
Experienced the 'Fast Guys from the back of the Grid' thingy when I started racing at Aintree.
Championship leaders dont muck about when there are points at stake and a novice in the way!!! Regular upsets!!!
Someone suggested last year that 1st race grids could be decided by championship standings after the previous round.
I feel the least contentious way of doing it!!!!....and safer too!!
In my day grids were always drawn! they were scary & there were incidents:eek: it's a step backwards IMO.
SeeleyG50
16-Feb-2009, 21:58
In my day grids were always drawn! they were scary & there were incidents:eek: it's a step backwards IMO.
I'd echo that........many a time I've been rammed up the rear :eek: whilst push starting on a drawn grid. IMO Better to settle in at your own pace than thrash around in a 'race', holding ya breath for the first 4 or 5 laps.
My first ever race I drew front row in a SOT race, luckily with the Derby Phoenix process if you were uncomfortable with it you could pick again and i ended up on last row which suited me fine.
My concern up above was around egos and some of the newer riders not maybe realising just how fast some folks are off the grid.
I would love to be front row (and I have been in a genuine race :D ) but with my starts these days I would not be that comfortable with it.
Having said that, if it is a qualifying race then there is no real need for silly starts as it's all about best lap time and that is never going to be first lap from a standing start. The fast boys will make it to the front anyway so it should not be an issue.
Would be interested to know the format of the "free" practice warm up regarding whether its loads of different classes all mixed up. Horrible if it is.
That's club racing, and you must learn to cope with other riders at some time or another, and during practice is better than during a race.
Personally, I think the banzai attitude to qualifying does not fit with club racing, and I will support any plan to get people to think about finishing a session without crashing, as it mucks up the session for not only everybody else on track at the time, but also the officials and the people queueing for the next session.
You all know who you are, and we all know who you are cos you smell of epoxy :lol:
If you fast blokes (I hate you all equally ;) ) dont know how to overtake slower riders safely, its about time you learned !
Chris Wood
16-Feb-2009, 22:59
I think it works.
As Lily said, it isn't a race, it's practice, just adjust your mentality to suit. The formation lap prior gives everyone a chance to get warm tyres too. Lessens the chance of first lap offs due to cold tyres maybe.
IMHO it will help people really think about putting in a good lap, and a good time. I have backed off to find space in the past, and put in a lap that has moved me well up the grid, rather than battling in qualy, which slows you down.
Anything to make the days run smoother, well done to NE for thinking about it.
Potentially getting 4 DD sessions on track in one day is great value.
Steve GD
17-Feb-2009, 07:18
That's club racing, and you must learn to cope with other riders at some time or another, and during practice is better than during a race.
Personally, I think the banzai attitude to qualifying does not fit with club racing, and I will support any plan to get people to think about finishing a session without crashing, as it mucks up the session for not only everybody else on track at the time, but also the officials and the people queueing for the next session.
You all know who you are, and we all know who you are cos you smell of epoxy :lol:
If you fast blokes (I hate you all equally ;) ) dont know how to overtake slower riders safely, its about time you learned !
My postie now thinks I'm doolally 'cos he walked by the window whilst I was laughing at that!
harriebird
17-Feb-2009, 08:31
My first ever race I drew front row in a SOT race, luckily with the Derby Phoenix process if you were uncomfortable with it you could pick again and i ended up on last row which suited me fine.
My concern up above was around egos and some of the newer riders not maybe realising just how fast some folks are off the grid.
I would love to be front row (and I have been in a genuine race :D ) but with my starts these days I would not be that comfortable with it.
Having said that, if it is a qualifying race then there is no real need for silly starts as it's all about best lap time and that is never going to be first lap from a standing start. The fast boys will make it to the front anyway so it should not be an issue.
i had the same thing when i entered the open race (for a fiver or soemthing daft like that!) at Donington in 2007 - it was drawn on race numbers so i was front row with my number 6, with a load of gixer thous etc behind me - no thanks.
i popped up to race control and it was all sorted out, i was able to start from the back. in the end i was too knackered to bother so it was all academic :lol:
MLC Racing
19-Feb-2009, 15:19
In my day grids were always drawn! they were scary & there were incidents:eek: it's a step backwards IMO.
You had a day......?
MLC Racing
19-Feb-2009, 15:21
I think it works.
As Lily said, it isn't a race, it's practice, just adjust your mentality to suit. The formation lap prior gives everyone a chance to get warm tyres too. Lessens the chance of first lap offs due to cold tyres maybe.
IMHO it will help people really think about putting in a good lap, and a good time. I have backed off to find space in the past, and put in a lap that has moved me well up the grid, rather than battling in qualy, which slows you down.
Anything to make the days run smoother, well done to NE for thinking about it.
Potentially getting 4 DD sessions on track in one day is great value.
So the grid will be decided on fastest laps in the qualifying race not on the race result?
skidlids
19-Feb-2009, 16:46
So the grid will be decided on fastest laps in the qualifying race not on the race result?
Thats what was planned, announced on the New Era website and printed in Bike Sport News, but following last Saturdays meeting, Des at New era is now considering two timed practice sessions, with the best lap of the two sessions to count towards the grid position. this Allows you to try a different setup be it gearing or suspension for the second session and if you have gone the wrong way and lap slower then the time from the first session will count.
as I say its still under discussion following last weekends meeting but needs to be sorted by the start of the New Era season which is the Mallory meeting in about 4 weeks time
following last Saturdays meeting, Des at New era is now considering two timed practice sessions, with the best lap of the two sessions to count towards the grid position. this Allows you to try a different setup be it gearing or suspension for the second session and if you have gone the wrong way and lap slower then the time from the first session will count.
That sounds like a more sensible option. It gives us complete novices the chance for a bit of a testing session without fear of destroying our chances.
skidlids
16-Mar-2009, 12:11
The latest update from New Era on this subject is
RACE-DAY FORMAT and GENERAL FOR 2009
Following a very well attended riders meeting at Daventry on Saturday 14th February, the following was agreed as being the best format possible for our 2009 Race Days.
Fundamentally, it was agreed that the best method of establishing Grid Positions for our races would continue to be by Timed Practice.
It was also agreed that, wherever possible there should be an Untimed as well as a Timed session for everybody.
There would also be a serious attempt to do away with the traditional Assembly Area, and the hanging about that this involves. The idea being that every Rider must be aware that there will be one 3 minute call only for each race.
After 3 minutes the Paddock gate will close and late comers will miss out. Riders will have had Grid Sheets so will know their Grid Positions and will - in the 3 minutes available - go straight through the Assembly Area to the Grid without stopping.
This will be a "ONE CALL" System. Obviously this will be a pretty dramatic change and will place a lot of responsibility on to each rider. It will therefore be subject to review after a while - but we hope the riders will co-operate as it is in their interest to do so
LATE ENTRY FEES. It is agreed that there will generally be no late entry fees charged this year - although there will be a £20 late fee applied where any Entry is accepted on the day of an event
.
CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS Credit card payments will not be taken any earlier than the Monday in the week in which the race meeting is due to take place. But will not be taken on the day of the meeting.
PRESENTATION OF AWARDS to help build a Club identity and atmosphere, there will be a presentation of awards on the Saturday evening of all two-day events.
nogaromill998
16-Mar-2009, 12:14
Will we be informed in advance Kev if there is to be an untimed practice? Or only on the day?
skidlids
16-Mar-2009, 12:22
Will we be informed in advance Kev if there is to be an untimed practice? Or only on the day?
I should hope so, obviously Donington is a different format to the normal club series so what goes on at Mallory next weekend will be monitored to see what does or doesn't happen there, if they don't get it quite right they will no doubt make a few changes before arriving at Angelsey.
Des was on about buying a large Klaxon to be used for the 3 minute warning/call to the grid. Certainly a little less to worry about in that respect when your not worried about removing warmers or choosing between wet or dry tyres.
I should hope so, obviously Donington is a different format to the normal club series so what goes on at Mallory next weekend will be monitored to see what does or doesn't happen there, if they don't get it quite right they will no doubt make a few changes before arriving at Angelsey.
Des was on about buying a large Klaxon to be used for the 3 minute warning/call to the grid. Certainly a little less to worry about in that respect when your not worried about removing warmers or choosing between wet or dry tyres.
Would need something of that order as its possible to be in the wrong area of a loudspeaker also compounded by bloody noisy motorbikes revving.:D
skidlids
16-Mar-2009, 21:35
Would need something of that order as its possible to be in the wrong area of a loudspeaker also compounded by bloody noisy motorbikes revving.:D
So long as its not to close to the track as its likely to scare the cr4p out of you if you were racing past it at the time
vBulletin v3.5.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.